Another DA9 Turbo

[mooshie]

I have just boosted my JDM B18C to 8PSI and most things seem to be good but i have a couple of questions and possibly issues.
I started out with only 1 12" slim fan on the standard radiator and when I stopped the water temp would go up to just over halfway and come back down when i started off again. Put another 10" in there and solved that problem.
Now when I stop and turn off the car, if I leave the ignition on the fans run for about a minute and then switch off, water temp seems to be fine. However, there is a noise like bubbles flowing through the top radiator hose. Not a constant bubbling like it is boiling but a small squelching noise every approx 10 seconds. I let the car cool and then open the radiator cap and I am missing about 100ml of coolant which seems to be in the overflow bottle. this has happened 4 times and has got me worrired!
Oil temps seem to be a little high too, after about 10 mins of driving it sits on about 240F and under heavy boosting it might go up to about 255F and then come back down. My Autronic computer cut the power at 6000rpm once at this temperature. Obviously an oil cooler is the way to go, but will this help with the coolant too?

Other than that, gee it is a bit of fun.. I have a GT2860RS on there and it was chosen because I wanted something very responsive and driveable, not all that interested in extreme top end power.
Dump is split from the wastegate and is 2.25 inch out to 2.5" after the intitial tight bend wastegate dump joins up about 20cm later, then goes 2.5" till just after the high flow cat. rest of the exhaust at the moment is still a 2.25" old NA crush bent system which will be upgraded at a later date.
Management is Autronic SM4 with electronic boost control, high/low switch, launch control and all the other goodies that are not active yet. Made 157KW at the wheels, think it will probably do about 165-170 when the exhaust is upgraded.

[EKVTIR-T]

Congrats mate.Get that exhaust sorted asap :)

Must be a blast to drive now

[Lukezen27]

Sounds like a blown head gasket bro

I had the same problem with bubbles flowing through the top radiator.. and the coolant would not suck back into the radiator.

Got wost and wost so I got a comp test and cylinder 4 was way down...

= small hole in the gasket

Replaced the HG and added ARP head studs at 70+

Not one problem since :thumbsup:

I'd upgrade to 3" exhaust, I've upgraded to 2.5" with a 10kw gain but my motors a lot smaller than yours..

And upgrade the radiator if I was you.. and that will in turn help your hot oil :)

[mooshie]

not sure if it is the headgasket, no water spitting out the exhaust and I have been refilling the radiator from the coolant overflow, which seems to fill up each time, ie. not losing any coolant

anyway here are some pics:

[Lukezen27]

not sure if it is the headgasket, no water spitting out the exhaust and I have been refilling the radiator from the coolant overflow, which seems to fill up each time, ie. not losing any coolant

anyway here are some pics:

Mine never spitting water out the exhaust, the hole was in the cooling jacket only and very small..

water jacket = filling up the overflow bottle

I got just small bubbles for about 6 months without any other problems...

Looks nice bro :thumbsup:

[mooshie]

mmm.. bugger. could you hear the bubbles all the time when the engine was running or only when you stopped? might have to get a comp test done and see what it turns up.

Thanks.

[Lukezen27]

mmm.. bugger. could you hear the bubbles all the time when the engine was running or only when you stopped? might have to get a comp test done and see what it turns up.

Thanks.

my exhausts is to loud to hear anything.. so no I didn't hears anything

But yours dose sound the exact some as mine at the very start..

Get a comp test its the only way to really tell

[stocky]

I hate to say it too but it sounds like a HG. In my DA, it would pressurise the coolant system and the overflow would slowly fill after a period of driving. It got worse when I kept blowing coolant hoses and overheat. Culprit was a small leakage from the combustion chamber to the coolant jacket in the HG.

I do hope yours is something else though, fingers crossed.

[mooshie]

so would I be right in saying that the gasket has probably had a small hole for a while, and it is only now that it is seeing positive pressure that is forcing the coolant out?

Luke, you said you drove for 6 months like this? Did you just keep refilling the radiator? not that I am going to risk that.

[Lukezen27]

so would I be right in saying that the gasket has probably had a small hole for a while, and it is only now that it is seeing positive pressure that is forcing the coolant out?

Luke, you said you drove for 6 months like this? Did you just keep refilling the radiator? not that I am going to risk that.

That's correct!

Its more than likely I had this problem before boost but didn't show up very often but once boosted it started getting wost and overheated once..

But yeah for 6 months I just filled the radiator up by using the overflow bottle..

Don't risk it, one overheat can kill your ringing

[stocky]

so would I be right in saying that the gasket has probably had a small hole for a while, and it is only now that it is seeing positive pressure that is forcing the coolant out?


Yep, that's what I thought too. When I changed my HG, it was evident where the coolant was seeping. It's prob a weakness that posed no problems n/a, only manifesting once it was pressurised.

I personally thought that it was because of the 0.64a/r rear housing on my turbo being too small, but I dont know, this is all speculation on my part.

[A-man]

sure its not something simple like a stuffed radiator cap???

[mooshie]

Yeah I was thinking I would replace the radiator cap too. the one on there at the moment is just a CPC brand replacement and about 7 years old. might do that first and see if it fixes the problem. Will still test the compression regardless.

Car goes on a truck back to Adelaide tomorrow morning and should arrive later in the week, hate having to wait to fix things up...

[A-man]

i had a cpc one before i went turbo and it was only a few months old and was buggered....

[FR33K]

i had this problem too
i only tightened my radiator cap halfway to release the pressure..

[A-man]

because increasing the pressure increases the boiling point... u might find its not sealing.. and u might also find y it isnt creating a vacumn in the tank and its being replenished by the overflow


nice setup btw where the rest of the frnt moutn pipes can u post it up

[mooshie]

I'll get some pics of the cooler pipes next weekend when I pick the car up. Basically hot side goes across the bay and through the hole under the headlight, then loops down under the bumper support bracket then across the top of the cooler.
Cold side follows the normal route, up through the resonator chamber hole.
setup is a bit long, but I did not want to cut up too much in the front end. still seems to come on boost very nicely and not much lag.

[A-man]

yeh maybe u shouldve looked at a cooler like mine then?

[Limbo]

the bubbling & use of more coolant, no leaks - i'd say luke's prob right and its a head gasket problem.

Its prob small at the moment but once it starts it will get worse, especially on a boosted car. Best to get it looked at before it frys the motor

[mooshie]

yeh maybe u shouldve looked at a cooler like mine then?

I almost ordered one exactly the same as yours, but in the end went for the more conventional design, just preferred the look in the end I guess.

Anyone know a good place in Adelaide for Honda head work?
I know of Graham West Workshop, good service and good work, but they dont specialise. Not that it is that hard a job to do, I would prefer someone with experience though.

[Weq]

Does the overlfow water appear dirty?

Those slimline fans are shit. And i guess u are missing your fan shroud too. From the wat your intercooler piping is run, i also am guessing u are missing AC. If its heating up at a stop, i would be looking at optimising the cooling system firstly. Get a shroud for the AC hole, so air flows through ur radiator and not bypassing it. Get a shroud for ur fans, or get good quality slimlines (check hondatech for brands).

An easy way to tell if its a headgasket or not is to:

1. Bleed cooling system, make sure the fan comes on atleast twice before you are done. no bubbles be present at the end. If there is, or u cant bleed it fully, its ur head gasket.

2. empty overflow bottle.
3. Take her out, hit fullboost and rev it out once or twice.
4. Examine overflow bottle.

If there is no water in the overflow, repeat from step 3. Do this atleast 3 or 4 times. Get her nice and heated up.

If there is water in it, after the first time, i would be worried. Espically if:
As u take the lid off, take note of the smell. You can smell the exhaust gases most of the time. If the water is like a fizzy drink, with bits of carbon or black stuff if it, those are other signs of headgasket.

[mooshie]

What makes you say these fans are shit?
I would have thought that it was pretty obvious that the cooler piping both comes out the same side so as to give enough room to leave the AC in there.
there is no AC hole, as you can see in the photos I still have a full size radiator. with a 12" and a 10" fan. It was heating up at a stop with only the 12" in there but as soon as the 10" went in as well I have not had an issue, temp actually came down slightly while i was at a set of lights. I am sure that the cooling is up to it.
I checked hondatech but a search for 'fans', 'cooling' and 'radiator' turned up zero, any particular brand you would suggest? I had a Davies Craig 12 inch previously rated at 140w (prior to turbo) and this FAL one is rated at 200w and feels like it is pushing a lot more air. cant remember the CFM rating, something like 2000, not that you can judge by that kind of advertisement anyway as CFM ratings can be twisted a bit.

followed steps 1 to 4 twice. I am sure it is the headgasket, although the coolant is clean and I did not notice an obvious smell (not that I sniffed it)

[Lukezen27]

What makes you say these fans are shit?
I would have thought that it was pretty obvious that the cooler piping both comes out the same side so as to give enough room to leave the AC in there.
there is no AC hole, as you can see in the photos I still have a full size radiator. with a 12" and a 10" fan. It was heating up at a stop with only the 12" in there but as soon as the 10" went in as well I have not had an issue, temp actually came down slightly while i was at a set of lights. I am sure that the cooling is up to it.
I checked hondatech but a search for 'fans', 'cooling' and 'radiator' turned up zero, any particular brand you would suggest? I had a Davies Craig 12 inch previously rated at 140w (prior to turbo) and this FAL one is rated at 200w and feels like it is pushing a lot more air. cant remember the CFM rating, something like 2000, not that you can judge by that kind of advertisement anyway as CFM ratings can be twisted a bit.

followed steps 1 to 4 twice. I am sure it is the headgasket, although the coolant is clean and I did not notice an obvious smell (not that I sniffed it)

Sorry I was the bearer of bad news :(

My coolant was also clean, I think it depends what quality coolant and age you have weather or not it gets smokey..

Better you get it fixed now before you really break something anyway!

Head gaskets are cheap to replace compared to a complete rebuild after a big overheat...

New HG + ARP head studs torqued down to 72 - 75

Also this may be just a coincidence but my temps dropped round quite a bit about the same time my problems started happening..

Luke

[mooshie]

Car made it on the truck ok yesterday aside from a small scratch on the bottom of one of the sideskirts. Wanker driver tried to tell me it was there before! like he know the condition of the car in Sydney...(I have photos) Told him he was a dickhead and he didn't like that, nearly didnt unload the car! All good, I don't really care that much as I have a full OEM kit to go on the car at some point.
Ended up getting the car delivered straight to the workshop, supposedley I had paid for local delivery and not just to the depot, pretty good for $454 Sydney to Adelaide!
She only got there at 5pm so they didn't have a chance to check it out.

[mooshie]

Well, I had the car checked out today, Sparkplugs-all clean, Leakdown test-all good, radiator pressure test-FAIL.
Turns out it was just the radiator cap after all! still at least I have had the leakdown done now just for a bit of peace of mind.
Took her for a drive today for about an hour in traffic and coolant temp didn't budge from the normal position, oil temp sat on 210F until I was boosting hard or had the aircon on, then it went up to about 230F. When I stopped there was no issues and temps came down quite quickly.
All good!!:D

[Lukezen27]

Well, I had the car checked out today, Sparkplugs-all clean, Leakdown test-all good, radiator pressure test-FAIL.
Turns out it was just the radiator cap after all! still at least I have had the leakdown done now just for a bit of peace of mind.
Took her for a drive today for about an hour in traffic and coolant temp didn't budge from the normal position, oil temp sat on 210F until I was boosting hard or had the aircon on, then it went up to about 230F. When I stopped there was no issues and temps came down quite quickly.
All good!!:D

Sweet

That's great news :thumbsup:

[A-man]

YES THE DA KING WAS RIGHT :P

good new man

[Weq]

My coolant was also clean, I think it depends what quality coolant and age you have weather or not it gets smokey..

Its not an age thing. It gets smokey cause exhaust gas is being pushed into the cooling system. Carbon deposits and everything else.

[Weq]

What makes you say these fans are shit?


Made in china. No shroud. Shroud is the key to drawing air effeciently, evenly through the radiator. It stops hot spots forming and keeps coolant at a much more consistant temp. No shroud gives u the 10+deg spikes/jumps in a small period of time. Shroud increase cooling efficiency 3fold. Stock fans may not full as much CFM, but the shroud makes them winners.

Honda-tech requires a bit more effort then just a few seach strings. Almost everyday is there is a post about cooling issues. If you have a problem, chances are there are 100 americans who have had it before u.

[Limbo]

i'm running the factory fan with shroud. Slight mod to one corner of shroud make it fit and works fine.
Otherwise i'd recommend the Davies Craig fan, which i have on my A/C side

[A-man]

i dont think u guys understand it... its a da9 thing.. u physically dont have the room to run shrouds and other BS. its not like egs/ek/dc/etc. they have heaps of room to put a big manifold in and still keep atleast one stock thermo. where our ones u cant even use say a ugr manifold because u will loose atleast one manifold without exhaust and or intake... its not a matter of shroud vs. no shroud and cheap vs. expensive thermos its all about room... mooshie would back me up on this aswell. i know ive just been through it

[Weq]

i dont think u guys understand it... its a da9 thing.. u physically dont have the room to run shrouds and other BS. its not like egs/ek/dc/etc. they have heaps of room to put a big manifold in and still keep atleast one stock thermo. where our ones u cant even use say a ugr manifold because u will loose atleast one manifold without exhaust and or intake... its not a matter of shroud vs. no shroud and cheap vs. expensive thermos its all about room... mooshie would back me up on this aswell. i know ive just been through it

If u can run a fan, u can run a shroud. End of story.

[Limbo]

they make pretty slim fans you know.

[Spoon DA9R]

damn..nice car man!

[mooshie]

Went for a nice long drive today, on the Victor Harbour cruise. No issues with temperature at all,Oil topped out at 240F and came back to about 220F under sustained high speed and high (3400) revs at about 100kmh.
Ambient temp was about 16-20 degC, still might have to get an oil cooler for those hot summer days.
Radiator and fans are having no trouble at all keeping up.

Main problem now is traction, have to get me some better tyres for the front!

[mooshie]

Finally upgraded my exhaust today.

now have a full 2.5" system, JunB.L. straight through muffler out to twin 3" tips on one side now.
Muffler is mounted transverse across the car like the standard system and it has a much nicer deep tone.
first impressions, the car feels more responsive although at this stage I have only gone up to 3500rpm, boost is still hitting the full 8PSI at 2700rpm.
She goes in on Thursday for a retune, cant wait!

[DA9-47]

NICE one mate, didnt realise you had a B18c turbd!!! Veryy verry nice mate!!!

lucky guy !!! :):)

And Grey !!!! the colour originaly made for legends!!!!!!!!

[mooshie]

Ha! I had forgotten about this old thread. A bit has happened in the last 2 years, might have to post an update over the weekend.

[Photonic_Si]

Do it. You still in Adelaide bro? Gotten rid of that hideous bodykit? Im in the hills also.

[mooshie]

Yeah moved back from Sydney a couple of years ago now. Still have the kit and the car rides higher than stock at the moment! Don't really care though, looks just aren't that important to me.
I do have an OEM kit to go on there but fitting a standard front end back on over the oil cooler and intercooler is a hassle so I haven't bothered with it.
Happy with the way the car runs so I am looking at re doing suspension atm plus maybe a new gearbox plus LSD.

[Photonic_Si]

Mad ****. She will clean right up with the stock bodywork for sure. Get an lsd asap. We fitted one to my mates da9 and it changed a lot. definitely worth it.

If you are only running minimal pressure, have you considered a smaller intercooler to help your fitment issues? Also there are a few things you can do to the stock bumper to allow a cooler to fit better. Your car has the goods by the sounds of it, but it might be time to part with the rice aspect. just sayin.

Keep it real bro!

[dougie_504]

Nice bump mooshie, this is a really cool thread. Just read it all and I'm diggin' your car massively!

But isn't it annoying hitting full boost at 2700RPM? Surely that'd chomp through petrol on the highway? I thought hitting full boost at say 3500RPM would be better for economy...


LSD sounds like a great idea too. I've heard really good things about Quaife. I was going to invest in one but have changed my mind since I won't be making huge power, nor hit the track regularly...

[mooshie]

Yeah for sure the GT2860RS was too small and although no lag was great, it produced a lot of heat and just didn't have any top end.
Gotta say though top end power isn't every thing, it was very smooth to drive and boost straight off the line was great.

I recently upgraded to a GT3071R in a T28 housing and that doesn't boost till about 3800rpm but picked up and extra 22kw at the top end although I actually lost up to 10kw at a couple of points below 4000.
I think a proper ramhorn manifold might be my next mod but getting it to fit may be a hassle.

Will post up some pics of the oil cooler and radiator plus the turbo changeover this weekend.

Maybe I should get this moved to the builds section? Its slow progress though as I don't get a lot of time to work on it at all.

[dougie_504]

Yeah ask one of the F/I section mods (or one of the big guys in general) to move it for you bro, I can't unfortunately because I don't mod this section.