Brake Upgrade on a 96EK1

[beeza]

I'm doing a brake upgrade and I just want to check if I need to upgrade the Master cylinder or anything else that I need to change?
It's for my 96 EK1 Civic Sedan.I will be tracking the car but it's only a d16y4 automatic (70kws) so I don't major braking power.

Parts I have for the swap:

* Integra vtir front upright and knuckle assemblies
* A set of Green stuff Pads
* Braided brake lines
* Castrol Dot 4 Brake fluid

Thanks Guys!

[phil3842]

yeah you need the brake booster master cylinder and the distribution block

[beeza]

Thanks Phil.It already has Disk brakes,so it's a disk brake upgrade.

[phil3842]

so your just changing to bigger discs then

[beeza]

Yes,just the fronts :)

[phil3842]

probably wouldnt hurt to change the master cylinder, better safe than sorry

[beeza]

Cool.

So there's 3 things I'm unsure if I need to change:

- Brake booster
- Master Cylinder
- Proportioning valve

I've been reading through some old threads and it seams a bigger MC is not always the best option and can make your brakes worse...

[AKmotorworks]

Brett, no need to change then MC or booster mate.

Drop that shit in there and get out on the track :)

[grncivic03]

the only time i have heard that you need to change the master cylender and Proportioning valve is when your putting rear discs on.

How much bigger are the disc? if they are teggy disc, it should be fine.

[beeza]

Awesome Andy!

YES! TRACK TRACK TRACK.....SOON SOON SOON......GRRRRRRRRR

haha Thanks mate.I should have just PM'ed ya :)

Thanks grncivic!

[Limbo]

nope should be able to bolt straight on. Don't need the brake booster or proportional valve.
You do know later model GLIs 2000+ already have the same brake + caliper combo from factory?

Also if it really is bugging you you can change the brake booster + prop valve later

[beeza]

That's what I was thinking,if it pedal feels no good I can change the something later.Cheers mate.

[nd55]

Hey Brett,

> * Integra vtir front upright and knuckle assemblies

What diameter brake rotors are you currently running?

AFAIK, you probably have 262mm rotors.

I can't remember if vti-r brakes are an upgrade or not.

ITR rotors are a 282mm dia rotor, and the corresponding calipers are enormous.


> * A set of Green stuff Pads

Ermm. I'd think twice about these at the track, let alone on a brisk street driven car. just my opinion, though.


> I just want to check if I need to upgrade the Master cylinder

Look on the side (middle, drivers side) of your current MC. There should be a casting stamp.

'13/16', '7/8' or '15/16'.

That's the diameter of the MC piston.

ITR MC is 1 inch.

If you upgrade to ITR brakes from a 13/16 MC then an ITR MC is definitely required, 15/16 would be an OK second choice.

If you've already got a 15/16 MC, you can probably get away with that.



In my opinion, (let's pretend you asked), you probably have 262mm front rotors.

A minor but effective upgrade will be to go with higher temp front brake pads.
Ferodo TS2000 or like.
Other brands have been discussed here at length.
No other changes necessary.



Proportioning valve change is not required if you already have rear disks.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100210&highlight=proportioning+valve


Nick.

[beeza]

Thanks Nick!

The integra front brake set up is all good.Andy helped me out there!

Yeah,I heard that about green stuff pads but I'm not fussy.I'll give em' a go :)

Oh cool,thank U I'll check the size of my MC out.

Thanks mate.

[vinnY]

greenstuff is fine for the street, bit dusty though
running ts2000's on the front with my 282mm rotors and they held up pretty well at the track, quiet on the street too

[Limbo]

green stuff eat rotors, but then a new set is not expensive for a 262mm

[Limbo]

i'm trying hawkes brand after my OEM ITR ones run out

[beeza]

green stuff eat rotors, but then a new set is not expensive for a 262mm

Yeah,that's what I heard and that they dust.I don't want either.
How much do you think it will affect my rotors on the track though.My car only has 70kws and is an automatic.

[nd55]

> Yeah,I heard that about green stuff pads but I'm not fussy.I'll give em' a go

> green stuff eat rotors


Indeed, I've never tried EBC brake pads.

According to my research, the latest EBC reds might be a worthy pad in the right application.


EBC greens' however have gone through half a dozen formulation revisions in a short time. Can't be a good sign.
The company itself has changed hands, too.

Tracking what actually is a EBC green pad is hard enough.


'dba steve' on performance forums or the mrt forum, advised against EBC greens and kevlar pads in general.

It seems they're a good pad for one big stop, but they have a tendancy to leave a deposit on the rotor.

Over time, this gets repeatedly brushed and burnt, and turns into cementite, which diffuses into the rotor surface.

The build-up caking on the rotor is what causes the rotor warping, feel.
Apparently, this is fixable by a light skimming on a brake lathe.


All avoidable by not running EBC greens.

Second option is not to rest the brakes on the rotors at intersections. Not so easy to do in practice though.

Like I said, all internet science, none of it my own.



> i'm trying hawkes brand after my OEM ITR ones run out

experiment by all means.
however, high end ferodo's (TS2000, DS2500) are a very tried and trusted approach.

Nick.

[zco]

i'd look into spending money on a brake booster and mastercylinder before getting braided lines :)

endless SSS pads are quite good, dont produce alot of dust

[bennjamin]

yup unless the lines are OEM and very old (10+ years with good track use) then they will still be fine for occasional track use. Even then , if i was to use a far for track i would opt for new OEM lines. Aftermarket lines are known to leak and not so noticeable.

If you are after simply "feel" and more confidence braking , save the money and just buy a cusco brake booster stopper , some decent pads and some fresh honda DOT4 brake fluid.
Your car will stop alittle better and will last longer in heated driving , and the pedal will feel firmer.