Improving EG Steering responce/feel/precision

[Moya]

Is their anything we can do to our EG's for a more responsive steering system?

I'm looking for a nicer balance between daily driver but weekend warrior.

Currently these are the items I dislike about my stock EG4 steering:
- ratio is too high, I can do a 3point turn
- not enough feedback
- zero effort, takes zero muscles

I think one of the reasons this is more evident for myself is because I've finished my suspension mods, and the car rides really really well especially through the twisties. But I'm not getting the steering I would prefer.

Currently setup is 100% stock, including Steering wheel.

Thanks

[Chi]

Take out power steering for a better 'feel'.

or

Install a dc2r steering rack.

[simonnowis]

its the same on my ek, the steering is light... im thinking of taking p/s belt out for awhile to see what its like.

[DvS-]

take out p/s and be a man!

[Moya]

I'm looking for opinions on what to do, and what changes they will make.

Will removing Power steering remove the lightness of the wheel?

[bennjamin]

its the same on my ek, the steering is light... im thinking of taking p/s belt out for awhile to see what its like.

do not do this.
taking simply the belt will screw your rack quick time and will not give a true indication of how a proper car without PS "feels".
You need to remove the entire rack to rack system....and replace it with a breather to get the full benefit.



Back on topic , mods to make your civic increase in response ?

Frontal castor kit (either swap upper control arms or install a kit)
install DC2R steering rack
install a smaller steering wheel
install a thicker rear swaybar
install a thicker front strut bar

etc. all teh above will increase front steering response/feel and or precision.

[hastE]

Take out power steering for a better 'feel'.

or

Install a dc2r steering rack.

is there much work into that?

DIY doable?

[55EXX]

more front castor angle
bigger rear sway
front strut tower brace

[Benson]

Type R rack is the best option

[saxophonias]

Great topic! Great solution the itr rack but not for eks as it doesn't fit! What about the ek9 rack? Does it worth trying that and does it fit?
Another thing you could do is to use pulley kit.
Toe out will give a better and faster steering feedback as well.

In the end i would say that Quaife is what you need.
http://www.quaife.co.uk/Honda-Civic-LHD-quick-rack-and-pinion-kit-2-83-SR3L
http://www.quaife.co.uk/Honda-Civic-LHD-quick-rack-and-pinion-kit-3-25-SH3L

Again Bad luck for ek owners :(

[thaizeg]

would a dc2/4 steering rack make a difference?
it would be easier for me to source than dc2r ones..

[bennjamin]

no its similar/same ratio as the EG rack. Dont bother.

[thaizeg]

^^thanks!

[eg5civic]

I've heard of close looped steering racks?

What are these??? Would he of just had a dc2r steering rack?

[bennjamin]

close loop = power steering motor , reservoir and most lines removed. No high pressure system.

[dasicvtec]

Ive got no power steering in my car. I went from Stock suspension, to a Coilover's/Antilift Kit/Swaybar's and soon to be braces. Steering has improved alot more at higher speeds and in general over all.

One thing to mention. If you decide to get rid of the power steering, It will initially be harder for you to steer (obviously) because your not use to it. It will take you a little bit of time to get the steering inputs down pat, but after that you will be able to 'feel' the turn more, and theres also resistance there.

It absolutely sucks though for parking and slow speed turns which require alot of adjustment's lol...It will get your muscles pumped if you try park in the city :D

[eg5civic]

yeah thats the only reason why i wouldn't take it out...

how much we talking for a dc2r rack though?

[90LAN]

you only have a eg4
for a itr rack and labour to change will not justify the money spent on a eg4
best option is to take out ps
and do minor thigs as mentioned above

[90LAN]

yeah thats the only reason why i wouldn't take it out...

how much we talking for a dc2r rack though?

u wont get change from 1 k easy for supply and fit
thats if u can find one

[Moya]

you only have a eg4
for a itr rack and labour to change will not justify the money spent on a eg4
best option is to take out ps
and do minor thigs as mentioned above

That doesn't make sense ... if I had an EG6 I wouldn't need to upgrade the steering column. Or in other words, on our EG's we either have decent DC2R/EG6 Based steering, or Holden Barina based EGx steering.

I agree with you though, taking out PS is the best way. But benjamin said earlier in this thread that simply removing the belt isn't enough, you should do a complete swap into non PS rack?

Non PS and smaller 350mm Wheel should help steering a lot?


more front castor angle -swapped front LCA's
bigger rear sway -Running Beaks/BSR and ITR 23mm
front strut tower brace -running full Password:JDM front, boot and rear struts

All 3 are done to my EG, and it still hasn't changed the lightness of non-sporty feel of the EG.


no its similar/same ratio as the EG rack. Dont bother.

Thanks benjamin , what are the stock ratio's of DC2R vs. EG?

Thanks all

[90LAN]

i have a eg with itr rack but im running everything itr in my eng bay so made sense to do it when i did the conversion
i was trying to say that it would not be worth it for u to do this as cost of itr rack then fitting it because u only have a eg4
but if u have the urge then by all means you should go to the effort and trouble to just get the steering to feel the way u want it
it has a shorter ratio rack i think about half a turn lock to lock

[Moya]

Thanks lan, yeah I get what you mean. 'No point changing steering column for $1000 if you still got stock EG engine'.

I think I'll do what you did and include steering rack as part of the B series conversation. But I hope we can still continue this thread and use it as a base to help others improve there steering response, even if they don't want to go to the effort of a full B series conversation.

[aaronng]

For the easiest way to improve response, set your front toe to -0.5mm toe out on each side. :)

[55EXX]

go bit more -1+mm toe out and for the rears too -1+mm toe out. should spice things up. wear tyres fast to just like a race car

[ekhybrid]

go bit more -1+mm toe out and for the rears too -1+mm toe out.

-1+mm toe out
what????

[Benson]

Great topic! Great solution the itr rack but not for eks as it doesn't fit! What about the ek9 rack? Does it worth trying that and does it fit?
Another thing you could do is to use pulley kit.
Toe out will give a better and faster steering feedback as well.

In the end i would say that Quaife is what you need.
http://www.quaife.co.uk/Honda-Civic-LHD-quick-rack-and-pinion-kit-2-83-SR3L
http://www.quaife.co.uk/Honda-Civic-LHD-quick-rack-and-pinion-kit-3-25-SH3L

Again Bad luck for ek owners :(

Change your subframe :p

[nd55]

try this:

http://www.civicforums.com/forums/115-engine/223156-diy-removing-power-steering.html


> taking simply the belt will screw your rack quick time

Have to disagree here, Ben. Mines been like this for almost three years. I know it's a reasonably common 'mod'.

Don't drain the fluid though, that might be the death of your rack. Others here have had luck draining 'most' of the fluid.


It feels like a bicep workout at parking speeds, but nice at at cruising speeds.

You do feel the road in a bad way too. If your car tramlines at all, you'll feel each and every tug at the wheel.

Nick.

[aaronng]

go bit more -1+mm toe out and for the rears too -1+mm toe out. should spice things up. wear tyres fast to just like a race car

No, you will get shitty driving that way because you can't keep the car straight.

Front: -0.5mm toe out on each side
Rear: +1.0mm toe in on each side

BTW, what is your tyre pressure and what brand & model of tyres are you using?

[saxophonias]

No, you will get shitty driving that way because you can't keep the car straight.

Front: -0.5mm toe out on each side
Rear: +1.0mm toe in on each side

BTW, what is your tyre pressure and what brand & model of tyres are you using?

totally agree! These angles i personally prefer and use to mine as well!

[connorling]

take out p/s and be a man!

can u just take out the belt onlt???

[bennjamin]

try this:

http://www.civicforums.com/forums/115-engine/223156-diy-removing-power-steering.html


> taking simply the belt will screw your rack quick time

Have to disagree here, Ben. Mines been like this for almost three years. I know it's a reasonably common 'mod'.

Don't drain the fluid though, that might be the death of your rack. Others here have had luck draining 'most' of the fluid.


It feels like a bicep workout at parking speeds, but nice at at cruising speeds.

You do feel the road in a bad way too. If your car tramlines at all, you'll feel each and every tug at the wheel.

Nick.

Not disagreeing more so proving otherwise
Without removing the actual system and installing a breather of sorts you are fighting fluid pressure ontop of all the other resistance otherwise removed by the power assisted steering.
Do youself a favour and do it properly ! Its much better ive been both ways and learnt.

[55EXX]

toe out on the rear for a more lively rear. toe out on the for more darty front

[Moya]

Can anyone comment on:

Stock EG Steering without power steering vs DC2R steering?

In regards to the thread topic of responce/feel/precision.

Sadly, no one I know has a EG without PS but a few mates have ITR's.

Thanks