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preludacris
10-11-2008, 01:59 AM
Ey guys.

Got a friend getting his L's next week.

He is considering getting a 600cc sports bike to start off with, rather than a 250cc. He assures me that he will respect the power of the 600cc in the learning stage though.

I have recommended against it, though some other friends say he'll be fine.



what are your thoughts.

ps. yes we know its illegal. after more feedback about the ability to ride safely.

cheers.

yfin
10-11-2008, 06:07 AM
stupid on all counts.

Further ask your friend if he has the money to pay for damage to other cars if he is in an accident. No insurance company will pay out if he is riding a 600cc. Plowing in to the back of a new mercedes with no insurance is going to be expensive! Could bankrupt him as well as put him in hospital.

CL455
10-11-2008, 06:51 AM
^ 2nd wat he said.... end of the day if u've never riden and u get on the road with a 600and something happens not only will u put the bike down but if u take someone else out it'll all come out of ur own pocket...

i know that when i 1st jumped on a 600 it still felt heavy and taht was after i rode a 250 and a 125... just takes sometime to get used to

nvmee
10-11-2008, 09:23 AM
Yups, it tends to be the weight issue. Ive been riding for years on my 250 and have only decided to sell it for a 600/1000 but due to my littleless i even have to slant the bike when stopping at the lights. Newer bikes tend to corner better tho, but without the basics of riding then there is a high chance of lowsliding. The best thing about the 250 is that you can learn to ride while doing silly things ie. crack full throttle mid point and not worry about much. And its not how big your bike is, its how you ride it, thats the main thing to riding. Ive been passed by plenty faster 250 riders and Ive also passed many 600 riders. Its all about technique and if you dont have the fundamentals then you tend to outdo yourself on the brakes or think you can go faster because you have a 600/1000 bike.

Throttling is one thing, riding is another. and if your mate is riding because he wants to look cool then HE SHOULD GET ****ING SHOT like most other squidders/ L platers out there. TOOLS LIKE THIS PISS ME OFF !!

Insurance companies WILL not pay you out, and you will be in deep deep shit. Why not go for a learner legal 600 like a ducati monster lite.

Zdster
10-11-2008, 09:34 AM
I think the first question we should be asking is why does he want a 600 to begin with? In most states the new LAMS rules means that you have a much wider range of bikes to choose from. Does he want a 600 because it is more powerful, they look better . . .

Henessaayyy
10-11-2008, 11:37 AM
If he gets a 600 on his L's...
He's gona be on the news within a week... Either dead or bankrupt...
Like those guys all said..
Insurance won't even justify that this guy exists...

Is he that much of a gangster/sick **** that he doesn't want to be seen on a 250?
**QBALL EDIT - no selling/advertising for newcomers**

na-118
10-11-2008, 12:12 PM
ill be at the auctions,
if he wont last long

preludacris
10-11-2008, 12:38 PM
all good replies, i hadn't even thought about the insurance point.

well, I think he wants a 600, because he can't be bothered finding a 250, and then having to sell it off 1 year later.

our friends are going to lend him their 600 and 250 for a few days, and depending on how comfortable he feels on the 600, i think will finalize his decision.

CL455
10-11-2008, 12:42 PM
seriously thou - if ur mate wants to actually get into riding for a while and go through and get his full licence - tell him to start off with a 125 or a 250 it's worth it learning road craft and how to react in different situations on a bike that you can handle...

1 big thing that ppl always say is that 'you will loose money getting a 250 then selling it a yr later for a bigger bike'

but the question is the money u will save ... are u willing to risk your life to save that cash .. riding a bike is fun - but is very dangerous as well... g/l with it

Henessaayyy
10-11-2008, 02:58 PM
CBRs hold their value anyway man...
Could even get more for it...

I bought mind cheap ($1200) and sold it for $4500 :)

Zdster
10-11-2008, 03:25 PM
Seriously, if he is that lazy, tell him to stay away from a bike. If he has no riding experience and I owned a 600 (or even a 250) and it wasnt a dirt bike, there would be no way I would 'lend' it to him for a couple of days. You are just asking for trouble.

If he doesnt want to sell in a year, tell him to get a 600 that can be detuned. Once he is off his restricted liscence he can then just remove the chip.

As others have said re: insurance. Most third party insurance at a minimum will cover you for around $5million worth of damages (ie he rides the bike into the back of a ferrari or rides it through a house and it is all covered). If he is riding a 600 and it is not on the LAMS list say goodbye to any insurance and he will have to pay.

YBOOST
10-11-2008, 04:10 PM
you can buy those hyosung korean bikes on ur L's, its a GT650 and its learner legal but i think they are d-tuned so they dont go heaps quick. its the power/weight of the bike, its fairly heavy waich makes it legal. dont look too bad either. tell ur mate to look into that bike.

dc2dc2dc2
10-11-2008, 04:38 PM
stupid on all counts.

Further ask your friend if he has the money to pay for damage to other cars if he is in an accident. No insurance company will pay out if he is riding a 600cc. Plowing in to the back of a new mercedes with no insurance is going to be expensive! Could bankrupt him as well as put him in hospital.

lol @ bankrupt by hitting back of merc.

lulul

silliest thing i've heard this year on ozhonda.

bennjamin
10-11-2008, 07:25 PM
lol @ bankrupt by hitting back of merc.

lulul

silliest thing i've heard this year on ozhonda.

well it is dare i say true. no insurance and you write off a merc you gotta pay for the car to be repaired at a minimum. Chances are younger and not much money to your name so it would be legal fees plus $XXX for whatever period for a chunk out of your life.

meh whatevee.r

Zdster
10-11-2008, 08:58 PM
well it is dare i say true. no insurance and you write off a merc you gotta pay for the car to be repaired at a minimum. Chances are younger and not much money to your name so it would be legal fees plus $XXX for whatever period for a chunk out of your life.

meh whatevee.r

Add on top of that any medical injuries caused to the driver/passenger in the car and you could easily be bankrupt.

The silliest thing I have heard is people suggesting that they should ride a bike that has to much power for most learners, is clearly illegal and dont really care that if there is an accident insurance wont cover them and it could end up costing them a heck of a lot more than a $5k bike

yfin
10-11-2008, 09:03 PM
lol @ bankrupt by hitting back of merc.

lulul

silliest thing i've heard this year on ozhonda.

Why is it silly? People are forced in to bankruptcy because they can't even pay a stupid $1000 credit card bill....Most debts are under $20k when people are forced in to bankruptcy. If you don't think it happens you need to spend more time in the court system.

dc2dc2dc2
11-11-2008, 08:19 PM
I do know alot about bankrupcy Mr yfin, i do work in insolvency.

But seiorusly....if a bike lets say...hit the back of a merc it cannot possibly do that much damage or cause the driver any injuries.

seriously.

d15z1SUX
11-11-2008, 09:25 PM
my friend has a zx6r and hes only on his 250cc license. i told him to wait but he couldn't wait. he barely rides the zx6r ne way he says its quite scary. like its impossible to ride it slow?? or something like that.

yfin
11-11-2008, 09:48 PM
I do know alot about bankrupcy Mr yfin, i do work in insolvency.

But seiorusly....if a bike lets say...hit the back of a merc it cannot possibly do that much damage or cause the driver any injuries.

seriously.

You are just a time waster - of course a motorbike can do heaps of damage to a vehicle in an accident. It can be as a result of direct or indirect damage (eg merc loses control and hits a tree). Motorbike is still at fault. Grow up. Seriously - no point arguing as you know my post about bankruptcy was completely valid. If you work in insolvency you should know better - or do more research.

bennjamin
11-11-2008, 10:00 PM
come on guys this is silly lets not argue over crap. Aything can write off a merc at teh right speed.

Zdster
12-11-2008, 08:35 AM
But seiorusly....if a bike lets say...hit the back of a merc it cannot possibly do that much damage or cause the driver any injuries.


You sir need to open your eyes. One example of MANY. This one was the result of a side impact:

http://www.driveandstayalive.com/images/crashes-and-scenes/motorbike-inside-vw_sweden_2005_upplandsbrobil463.jpg

dc2dc2dc2
12-11-2008, 10:14 AM
I better declare bankrupcy as well, i can't afford a $1800 bill for my yearly insurance.

nvmee
12-11-2008, 10:21 AM
my friend has a zx6r and hes only on his 250cc license. i told him to wait but he couldn't wait. he barely rides the zx6r ne way he says its quite scary. like its impossible to ride it slow?? or something like that.

True, you get worried about police. And if you ride to slow you lowslide it because there is not enough speed to compensate for lean/weight of the bike. And you should do roundabouts in first gear too (first gear is twitchy) as it shudders on 2nd rofl lol. the joys of a bike

Zdster
12-11-2008, 10:27 AM
I better declare bankrupcy as well, i can't afford a $1800 bill for my yearly insurance.

You have missed the point. He would be riding a bike illegally which means insurance wont cover him. He would be up for the full cost of repairs (or if the car is written off the cost of purchasing a similar car to which has been wrecked), plus any injury claims to the person he has hit.

Add on to that personal injury (and if you are hitting a car at any sort of speed this will be significant) and the cost of the bike and it could very easily leed to bankrupcy.

Nax
12-11-2008, 02:54 PM
yea sorry mate im on the bandwagon with this one, its better to do it ligit for a year and then get any bike u want, u can get insurance, and there are alot of powerful 250's or even bikes that would keep up with the 600, its all about power to weight, honda makes a mean 400, expensive but if u can get ur hands on it its a beast and its LAMS approved

tell ur mate not to be another statistic that ruins it for the rest of us, do it ligit or stay on 4 wheels,

preludacris
13-11-2008, 02:54 AM
^^ not at all mate. i am trying to convince my friend against it as i dont think the effort of buying and reselling a bike outweighs all of the other dangers, illegal aspects etc.


I just wanted some feedback from some more experienced riders than myself, as i personally haven't even rode a 600.

some good points made so far though. will prolly get my mate to read thru this thread so he can weigh up the good and bad points himself.

EK4R
13-11-2008, 09:37 PM
you forgot to mention the fact he actually rode a bike and had his license before (expired) , so he isnt really a first timer. he rode my bike down the twisties the other day quiet comfortabily actually which i was suprised.

as for insurance i doubt he will even buy it so not worried about covering anything or not be able to. he wont have it.

however i would be scared riding in syd roads being so busy n all.

ard33
13-11-2008, 10:12 PM
gotta respect the heirachy with bikes man
had a cbr250rr, maddest bike for l's
mate sold it to me for a sweet price
i have a stupid cuzn that has no experience with bikes at all and wants to jump str8 onto a gix600
i had a mate who had no riding experience,bought a 2000 gix600 and overshot a turn ended up with a broken leg
you gotta earn your stripes with this yo

totally off topic
had a few frens that bought 600's while on their p's
funnily enough they both got busted
had suspended licenses for abit b4 they could ride again.

corn_flakes
13-11-2008, 10:19 PM
learn first, play later.

it aint as safe as driving. u won't look cool on a 600 when u stack it in front of everyone.

nvmee
13-11-2008, 10:48 PM
gotta respect the heirachy with bikes man
had a cbr250rr, maddest bike for l's
mate sold it to me for a sweet price
i have a stupid cuzn that has no experience with bikes at all and wants to jump str8 onto a gix600
i had a mate who had no riding experience,bought a 2000 gix600 and overshot a turn ended up with a broken leg
you gotta earn your stripes with this yo

totally off topic
had a few frens that bought 600's while on their p's
funnily enough they both got busted
had suspended licenses for abit b4 they could ride again.

yes yes, it overshotting a turn tends to happens with newbies. even i did that trying to chase down a mate. very silly. The thing is, most of the time its not overshooting (going in too hot) the turn, its lack of skill. if you have the ability to turn then you can escape almost anything


learn first, play later.

it aint as safe as driving. u won't look cool on a 600 when u stack it in front of everyone.

LOL or stall it

preludacris
14-11-2008, 12:56 AM
you forgot to mention the fact he actually rode a bike and had his license before (expired) , so he isnt really a first timer. he rode my bike down the twisties the other day quiet comfortabily actually which i was suprised.


yeh forgot to mention that. but seeing as he never owned a bike, i wouldnt think riding a friends bike here and there is the same as a year of solid riding exp, didnt think was relevant.

either way, i dont think it would necessarily be harder to ride a 600 cept maybe in slow situations, and also when u fang it. daily stuff prolly be the same. but u know he's gonna fang it... loll

EK4R
14-11-2008, 07:55 AM
well im not karen , so im not worried if he broke a leg or two or three hehe

but u know roni, he wants power

corn_flakes
15-11-2008, 12:25 AM
yes yes, it overshotting a turn tends to happens with newbies. even i did that trying to chase down a mate. very silly. The thing is, most of the time its not overshooting (going in too hot) the turn, its lack of skill. if you have the ability to turn then you can escape almost anything



yup! overshooting happens all the time with newbies, like myself. LOL.

and you're right, it's not about coming in too hot, it's more lack of skill and being too chicken shit to lean into the turn enough.

practise is the key word here. heaps of it.

FASN8U
15-11-2008, 01:44 PM
its not even jus about being able to control a bike its alot to do with dealing with other road users and road conditions. so all of that in mind the last thing you want is to much power at ur right hand if u cant handle it. personaly i ride a 600 (on private property) and people realy under estimate the power of them , ive been riding bikes my entire life and i still dont think im ready to hit the road let alone on a 600. but il definelty get a cheap 250 when i turn 18 and get my L's.

mp-
16-11-2008, 04:20 PM
^ the hyosungs arnt that bad. but the 600 is abit too expensive for a L.

just incase something does happen, it's better to get something cheap and wont make u cry as much wen u drop it

FASN8U
16-11-2008, 08:46 PM
dont no much about theese hyosungs il google it , what are they a cheap chineese sportbike or something?

CONAN
17-11-2008, 02:57 PM
dont no much about theese hyosungs il google it , what are they a cheap chineese sportbike or something?

Korean

FASN8U
17-11-2008, 04:06 PM
they must be shithouse quality

pengpeng
22-11-2008, 11:01 PM
how about put more consideration in Killing people on the road rather than just hitting a merc or a ferrari? if he has the money he can solve the problem of making damage to other's properties, but if you kill someone, this is not what money can compensate, you're ass will be sitting in jial.

another thing, if you get on the road and you don't comply with the law, if you hit someone, you're f***ed, if someone hits you, you're still f***ed. because in both cases you're taking the full responsibility for any damage.

I have been through few bikes, started from a 150cc 2 stroker, then a CBR250RR, then a honda RVF 400 which was a heavy bustard. finally when I got rid off my P's I bought myself a $25k Aprilia 1000cc to celerbrate, I took it out for a ride at night on the day I bought it, I dropped it before I start the engine. Im saying this is trying to explain how shit happens, you need to be very careful and try to get used to the new stuff, bikes are not like cars, you can jump into any car and drive off with some adjustments with the seat and mirrors. bikes are different, every bikes has different charateristics from the basic stuff like weight, height, seating position, then power and suspension (hard and soft). any of these charateristics affects how you will handle it.

if your friend worries about loosing money, then he shouldn't spend his money on cars or bikes for fun, should have kept the money in the bank and earning interest everyday.

nvmee
23-11-2008, 12:02 PM
u forgot the tank shape and positioning as well ... =) the cockpit plays a huge role in whether the rider suits it or not

pengpeng
23-11-2008, 05:28 PM
u forgot the tank shape and positioning as well ... =) the cockpit plays a huge role in whether the rider suits it or not

haha...yeah nvmee...

Entity
24-11-2008, 06:32 PM
man i've nearly been killed on my 250 countless times but have been able to save it so far - and i'm learning heaps as i go

i have no doubt in my mind that if those same situations were to have happened to me on a 600 i would be dead or seriously injured.

bennjamin
24-11-2008, 06:34 PM
man i've nearly been killed on my 250 countless times but have been able to save it so far - and i'm learning heaps as i go

i have no doubt in my mind that if those same situations were to have happened to me on a 600 i would be dead or seriously injured.

IF you were at the same speed and same situation....why would a slightly bigger engine make a difference ?

Is it the handling aspect or the power aspect ?

Zilli
24-11-2008, 08:33 PM
hmmmm im selling my run around at the moment to buy a bike... but im looking at a cruiser rather than a sport bike... the way i see it it will be less temptation to drive it fast... looking at a few different Harley's and bike Honda's at the moment

TALEB TYRES
26-11-2008, 11:13 PM
say you went for the 600 not 250, does anyone know what would happen if you took a 600(not learner legal), to do the p's test?

would they let you do it, last time i went to the centre, 9/10 people there had a cb250, same as the l's bikes.

nvmee
27-11-2008, 05:49 AM
LOL .... I tell you a funny story, a guy came into do his Ls and parked his R1 outside and he happened to by fully sick to a off duty officer. The off duty called his mates to come by after the test and wait around the corner. As soon as the R1 took off , the guy ran to the gates and watched him get pulled over and have a laugh as they took his bike away :D

I went with 3 CBrs RRs and they all passed fine. They champ with the hired bike hit a chunk off the front and threw himself off and failed tho

Entity
30-11-2008, 12:08 AM
IF you were at the same speed and same situation....why would a slightly bigger engine make a difference ?

Is it the handling aspect or the power aspect ?

i think its more that with the same twist of the throttle off the line i would be doing much higher speeds.

i've done stupid shit like blip the throttle too much or change gears around corners and if i did that on a bigger bike i reckon i would've kicked myself off

and lets not mention the bad timing with lane splitting incidents.

all in all, i'm pretty glad i went with a 250 first..

TALEB TYRES
30-11-2008, 10:03 AM
well i just did my 1st day of the l's test yesterday, pretyy easy stuff just gotta pay attention its comon sense.

And yea they only let you do your p's test on a lams legal bike. so even if you buy a 600 like an r6 or gixxer make sure you can get something for the test.

Haha shoulda seen his face when i was asking that question...

.::F[L]Y::.
30-11-2008, 08:49 PM
well i just did my 1st day of the l's test yesterday, pretyy easy stuff just gotta pay attention its comon sense.

And yea they only let you do your p's test on a lams legal bike. so even if you buy a 600 like an r6 or gixxer make sure you can get something for the test.

Haha shoulda seen his face when i was asking that question...

LOL yea first day of the Learner course is ok. I hated the bit where we had to get pushed around on the bike. Almost stacked it lol

I think for the p's test, you can borrow the bikes they have there for the day.

TALEB TYRES
01-12-2008, 12:12 AM
Y::.;2018761']LOL yea first day of the Learner course is ok. I hated the bit where we had to get pushed around on the bike. Almost stacked it lol

I think for the p's test, you can borrow the bikes they have there for the day.

Haha yea!
thats gotta be the worst part but i guess its part of the lerning process.
one of the guys i did it with still managed to get kicked off caus he just couldnt control the bike, ie we would literally get ready to jump off the bike and run when he was trying to stop next to us haha!

Yea one guy doing his p's test managed to damage one of the centres bikes, all we heard was a big screech of the tyres and his mirror breaking with the fall.

did you end up finding a cbr yet?

or you gonna go the 600 path?

.::F[L]Y::.
03-12-2008, 01:58 PM
Haha yea!
thats gotta be the worst part but i guess its part of the lerning process.
one of the guys i did it with still managed to get kicked off caus he just couldnt control the bike, ie we would literally get ready to jump off the bike and run when he was trying to stop next to us haha!

Yea one guy doing his p's test managed to damage one of the centres bikes, all we heard was a big screech of the tyres and his mirror breaking with the fall.

did you end up finding a cbr yet?

or you gonna go the 600 path?

i picked up a cbr250rr. I will probably look at a 600RR once i get my p's.

aramiK
31-12-2008, 04:58 PM
You can ride 600's on P's?

I'm about to buy a 250rr soon myself.. can't wait.

.::F[L]Y::.
31-12-2008, 06:59 PM
have a look into the rvf400. you will get over the 250RR pretty quickly

emsad
02-01-2009, 02:34 PM
there is a place in sydney called RR motorcycles in Haberfield Sydney/.. you can buy a new r6, gsxr600 or a gsxr750 with a restricter on it and registered under the LAMS.. which makes it learner legal..

FASN8U
02-01-2009, 03:00 PM
restrictor? intresting. how easy is it to remove?

D4rk4n63l
02-01-2009, 03:21 PM
^would like to know as well.. about the restriction, not how to remove it.

AFAIK, the only legal way to put on restrictor is that if the manufacturer put it on in the first place, and the only bigger bike I know that has this restrictor is the ducati monster 600 LE (limited)

FASN8U
02-01-2009, 03:31 PM
yer id like to no if you could disconnect it when you rode it off street and how complicated it is to re-connect for legal use

LaZaZaL89
02-01-2009, 05:01 PM
I have heard of people doing it to the hyosung gt650r as well

emsad
02-01-2009, 05:04 PM
what i know so far is that it costs like 2500 to do it because you need a engeneer to do it and put it on a dyno to get the power rating so its under 15kw/1tone ratio.. i have no idea how hard it is to put on or of.. what i think it might just be a restricted tuned ecu or just restricted slides.. i seen a few r6's and gsxr600 with L plates on them so i started to investigate and have found out they all got it from that same place..

emsad
02-01-2009, 05:06 PM
I have heard of people doing it to the hyosung gt650r as well

the hyosung gt650r comes with the restricter out of the factory.

EK4R
06-01-2009, 02:44 AM
the hyosung gt650r comes with the restricter out of the factory.

not the early models :)

and back ontop topic. my friend got a 600 instead. good choice. i rode it didnt feel too much different to a 250. just be sensible. 50% of the accident are rider caused.

.::F[L]Y::.
06-01-2009, 09:22 PM
melb laws must be more relaxed than sydney ones?

EK4R
07-01-2009, 01:28 AM
not really he is goin to sydney with his bike this year for work actually. just that he isnt hanging a L / P plate on his bike.

if caught its a 105 dollar fine. no points

LaZaZaL89
07-01-2009, 04:16 AM
Cept he will get douched if he hits a car and insurance doesnt want to pay up.

.::F[L]Y::.
07-01-2009, 02:32 PM
not really he is goin to sydney with his bike this year for work actually. just that he isnt hanging a L / P plate on his bike.

if caught its a 105 dollar fine. no points

cause up here i think its also an instant 3 month suspension.

LaZaZaL89
07-01-2009, 03:39 PM
I know you lose 7 points if you drive a prohibited vehicle(instant licence loss on your P's), you would think its the same with a bike?

TALEB TYRES
07-01-2009, 10:55 PM
well nye we were on the bikes, my mate got caught on a k8 gsxr1000, only on p's., prohibited bike, no p plates... Lost his license on the spot...yea its 7 points for a prohibited bike as well.

nvmee
08-01-2009, 07:31 AM
Not sure if this is mentioned, but you can get a restrictor done for 1.5k? and then get it engineered for LAMS

.::F[L]Y::.
08-01-2009, 11:04 AM
Not sure if this is mentioned, but you can get a restrictor done for 1.5k? and then get it engineered for LAMS

that sounds interesting. any more info?

r33zilla
08-01-2009, 11:07 AM
Well does he know how to ride at all there are many factors that you have to take into consideration.

I mean any 250cc bike is ideal and great to learn from.
Entering corners, Balance etc... is something you have to be able to do

thats why its a LEARNER LEGAL BIKE AND IS RECOMMENDED TO START OFF WITH.

If he really wants to go for it if he plans to ride illegally then his a dumb ass its not worth getting caught and when you do be your paying the consequences lost of licence or whatever.

You can get 600's learner legal just not many people know about it ;) my mate has a gsxr600 K7 with L plates LOL

But him respecting the 600cc HELLLLLLLLLLLLL NOOOOOOOOOO you will not its just to much fun and you will not be able to help yourself TRUST ME. I do not believe him when he is saying that.

I'll got a CBR250 Honda great bike love it and perfect learnering.

Selling it soon cause i want to upgrade.

r33zilla
08-01-2009, 11:09 AM
Not sure if this is mentioned, but you can get a restrictor done for 1.5k? and then get it engineered for LAMS

Thats correct!! mate has a gixxer 600 K7 with LAMS

.::F[L]Y::.
08-01-2009, 08:45 PM
Thats correct!! mate has a gixxer 600 K7 with LAMS

can you explain this process please? can any bike shop do this?

Zdster
08-01-2009, 08:58 PM
Thats correct!! mate has a gixxer 600 K7 with LAMS

Assuming it can be done (I was under the impression that it couldnt) I would be concerned about changes to the power curve. Depending on the bike and its power/torque curve you may end up with a learner legal bike that is horrible to ride as all the power is in the top end.

EK4R
09-01-2009, 01:02 AM
and heavier...no point and waste of money. the money u lose on tuning and retuning once ur offer your Ps you might as well get a 250 and upgrade later.