tune2look
11-11-2008, 02:08 AM
I am starting to write this thread in the middle of sending a PM to someone who wanted to buy one of my lowered springs.:confused::confused:
I was trying to convince him not to get superlow springs even though I am selling it, purely cuz I knew he was not going to spent anymore $$$ on shocks.
the pm scroll was getting smaller and smaller as I wrote out, and I thought I might share my words on a thread so noobs like me dont make mistakes like I did wasting alot of money.
But please mind that all theory covered in here are all off my head and what I can remember from what I read.
*THIS IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL TECHNICAL ADVICE*
and.... YES I HAD SOME BEER! :o:o
So here it is.
Wanna lower your car?
Well, almost 4-wheel-drive like standard gl, gli, cxi, breeze... so called cheap model owners(me one of them) should be happy with standard lowered spring that many companies supply for us.
most of them should give you around a finger gap all round.
With these springs even good conditioned stock oem shocks will do the job just fine.
Oviously having a coilover or good named shock will do better job, but I'll get to that later.
Also, camber wont hurt much at all if the alignment is done correctly.
Many exotics or expensive sportscars have around a finger gaps between wheels and guards. I personally justify that height as a 'sleepers height".:D
NOT LOW ENOUGH?
This is when I wanna recommend coilovers.
* A car should drive like a car * and...
just superlow springs will not give you that.
When I first got my civic, I was so happy to cruise around with my 17" enkei with $500+ per pair tyres superlowed.
the car was running awesome, good cornering, not too bad ride, everything was all good.
But it will not last you a month if you are a everyday driver.
most of your trim will make squik every bump, everytime you drive in your driveway, gutter, carpark, anywhere that makes your either left or right incline more than the other, it will squi~~~ck~!
That happens when your shock bottoms out and you are still enjoying to drive around and "lol" with your mates everytime you go over bump.
Your ass hurts, especially your mates at the back seat if you own a shitty hatch....
Weigh more than 80kg ish, you can actually feel the steel molds under the seats.
Your shocks are not only NOT designed to handle the harder spring rate,
and also your oem shocks are not designed to dampen such short stoke at that superlow position.
It will soon bottom out, which is meaning that the shock gets pushed in too much exceeding its limit and as soon as the damper gets weakened by constant stress, its oil, gas or whatever it uses, will leak.
Damaged shock obsorber means your car has nothing to obsorb any shocks, and that shocks will be transfered to you and your car.
Very bad for your cars health and YOUR TOO!
Constant vibration under normal condition will give you enormous amount of stress to your self without even knowing it.
Your full body is actually in full load constantly cuz its expecting abnormal shock to it, but it dont know when it happens, hence always standing by.
Imagine someone always, ALWAYS scares the fcuk outta you EVERYTIME you came back home from work. For days, weeks, and that someone got you every single time. Doent matter you know for sure hes not gonna harm you, never did, but your heart will start to pump everyday you go home. Try not to, but you still will.
Also, I dont wanna go too deep about it but research about how driving affects males sexual ability. I saw it on discovery channel or something and its shocking!:thumbdwn: lol
ANYWAY, the one who wanted to get my springs asked me,
"how it feel round turns i dunt mind bumps LOL"
simply question but I couldnt answer simply. why? cuz yes and no.
Even the superlow springs are not hard as other performance oriented springs, but it still provides much harder rate then your oems.
Thus it will reduce body roll and on to of that, you alter your center of gravity, and it also alters the way your car handles.
If you lower the car, your center of gravity will drop too.
There is an optimal height, but I think it all depends on applications and drivers them selves.
Anyway, as the ride is so low,body roll is reduced, so cornering isnt too bad.
but most importantly, that is in everyday driving condition.
if you cut corners fast, even with the reduced roll, you will lose traction easily as non-compatible or most-likely dead shock obsorbers are not doing its job re-bounding compressed shock.
Simply imagine a ton weighing chassis that is forced its weight down to gravity, and imagine a ton weighing chassis that is just sitting on 4 springs that tense to constantly bounce without any force stoping it.
Not only that but i assume also because if you lower the car too much, your center of gravity will be lower then suspension point(??dont know how to call it).
You can tell by how the lower control arm will sit lower at the subframe end.
I am not an engineer or mech, but it seems it not really helping shock obsorbers job...
sports shockobsorbers compatible to spring rate will cure incidental traction loss but I believe optimally it should be 0deg flat. (bare me mines lower anyway:D)
I once had a accident with 'hoon spec', and got used to it, then was kinda enjoying that lack-of-traction. I must have thought I was a good driver too LOL.
But no joke guys, You might be the one who is capable of being super driver who can laugh at dori-king, yes! I have no dout.
But handling or trying to handle a car thats not handling properly is not driving.
It is very very dangerous.
Bad traction will lead to bad braking, full stop. DANGEROUS!
Bad accidents cant be predicted. Its just that one short moment that you drove your car over the limit it could take, then there your car goes.
As most likely all 4 shocked are damaged in few month old cheap super low setups, you cant even predict whats gonna happen to the car.
If you want to lower your car, do it properly.
I highly highly recommend getting coilovers. or atleast a good set of sports shocks.
It will cost you back around $2k. But if you add up some money unwisely spent, 2 grand for your perfect custom height, ride smoothness is definately worth it.
My suspension history goes,
on wheels,
some 17" enkei chromies (too wide) $$$
steelies (temporary didnt end up temporary) $$$
BSA 16" (update, but wasnt perfect) $$$
on springs,
superlow springs $$$
standard springs (used) $$$
standard lowered (hated fist-sized gap!!) $$$
labour,
spring replacement $$$ x 3
tyres,
new pair of kumho mx every 3month (camber wear and abnormal wear from cuts made during infinite craping just about everywhere!) $$$
all will add up more then few grand.
I am current set for buddyclub n+ and good offset RP-01 wheels sitting low, all corners covering tyre by around 1 finger. so, pretty low.
I also have full mugen bodykit, and I hit my front bar much much less then my standard lowered springs on oem shocks.
I can say I rarely srap my bumper bar.
short travel shocks ROCK!
this will set me back less than what I have spent before getting these.
Also, coilovers are much more durable, and is worth heck more if you want to sell yours secondhand.
2k coilover will get you atleast half back if you didnt wreck'em.
my few sets of springs that are sale for 140ono each, but costed me around 400 back then.
And you dont want your car to become all raddling, squicking...
Stop telling your mates your cars like that and its cuz its light car and hondas supposed to be raw sounding... true screaming raw sound is nothing compared to your panels dangling noises! value your ride. care with love.
So guys, make a wise choice.
thinking superlow? get coilovers. it will save you alot more at the end.
keep your living shocks wrapped up in your garrage corner,
keep your car from sounding like 10 years older.
Have fun driving a reliable car, then you can sell both the car and coilover at its best conditions.
Dont be a dick and wreck the car which bad suspension. You might wanna sell off your car when its no good nemore, people like me had to be fool'ed and buy one of em....
I done at least around 5x interior strips and changing old clips... still shits me!!
arr... shxt... its 3am... no more beer.... off to sleep...
back from quick wash and brushing, I kinda lost my point guys.... rofl
I definately think I should fix up things and make my point when I wake up.
err... this is why I dont write in OH often. alway lost lol!
I was trying to convince him not to get superlow springs even though I am selling it, purely cuz I knew he was not going to spent anymore $$$ on shocks.
the pm scroll was getting smaller and smaller as I wrote out, and I thought I might share my words on a thread so noobs like me dont make mistakes like I did wasting alot of money.
But please mind that all theory covered in here are all off my head and what I can remember from what I read.
*THIS IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL TECHNICAL ADVICE*
and.... YES I HAD SOME BEER! :o:o
So here it is.
Wanna lower your car?
Well, almost 4-wheel-drive like standard gl, gli, cxi, breeze... so called cheap model owners(me one of them) should be happy with standard lowered spring that many companies supply for us.
most of them should give you around a finger gap all round.
With these springs even good conditioned stock oem shocks will do the job just fine.
Oviously having a coilover or good named shock will do better job, but I'll get to that later.
Also, camber wont hurt much at all if the alignment is done correctly.
Many exotics or expensive sportscars have around a finger gaps between wheels and guards. I personally justify that height as a 'sleepers height".:D
NOT LOW ENOUGH?
This is when I wanna recommend coilovers.
* A car should drive like a car * and...
just superlow springs will not give you that.
When I first got my civic, I was so happy to cruise around with my 17" enkei with $500+ per pair tyres superlowed.
the car was running awesome, good cornering, not too bad ride, everything was all good.
But it will not last you a month if you are a everyday driver.
most of your trim will make squik every bump, everytime you drive in your driveway, gutter, carpark, anywhere that makes your either left or right incline more than the other, it will squi~~~ck~!
That happens when your shock bottoms out and you are still enjoying to drive around and "lol" with your mates everytime you go over bump.
Your ass hurts, especially your mates at the back seat if you own a shitty hatch....
Weigh more than 80kg ish, you can actually feel the steel molds under the seats.
Your shocks are not only NOT designed to handle the harder spring rate,
and also your oem shocks are not designed to dampen such short stoke at that superlow position.
It will soon bottom out, which is meaning that the shock gets pushed in too much exceeding its limit and as soon as the damper gets weakened by constant stress, its oil, gas or whatever it uses, will leak.
Damaged shock obsorber means your car has nothing to obsorb any shocks, and that shocks will be transfered to you and your car.
Very bad for your cars health and YOUR TOO!
Constant vibration under normal condition will give you enormous amount of stress to your self without even knowing it.
Your full body is actually in full load constantly cuz its expecting abnormal shock to it, but it dont know when it happens, hence always standing by.
Imagine someone always, ALWAYS scares the fcuk outta you EVERYTIME you came back home from work. For days, weeks, and that someone got you every single time. Doent matter you know for sure hes not gonna harm you, never did, but your heart will start to pump everyday you go home. Try not to, but you still will.
Also, I dont wanna go too deep about it but research about how driving affects males sexual ability. I saw it on discovery channel or something and its shocking!:thumbdwn: lol
ANYWAY, the one who wanted to get my springs asked me,
"how it feel round turns i dunt mind bumps LOL"
simply question but I couldnt answer simply. why? cuz yes and no.
Even the superlow springs are not hard as other performance oriented springs, but it still provides much harder rate then your oems.
Thus it will reduce body roll and on to of that, you alter your center of gravity, and it also alters the way your car handles.
If you lower the car, your center of gravity will drop too.
There is an optimal height, but I think it all depends on applications and drivers them selves.
Anyway, as the ride is so low,body roll is reduced, so cornering isnt too bad.
but most importantly, that is in everyday driving condition.
if you cut corners fast, even with the reduced roll, you will lose traction easily as non-compatible or most-likely dead shock obsorbers are not doing its job re-bounding compressed shock.
Simply imagine a ton weighing chassis that is forced its weight down to gravity, and imagine a ton weighing chassis that is just sitting on 4 springs that tense to constantly bounce without any force stoping it.
Not only that but i assume also because if you lower the car too much, your center of gravity will be lower then suspension point(??dont know how to call it).
You can tell by how the lower control arm will sit lower at the subframe end.
I am not an engineer or mech, but it seems it not really helping shock obsorbers job...
sports shockobsorbers compatible to spring rate will cure incidental traction loss but I believe optimally it should be 0deg flat. (bare me mines lower anyway:D)
I once had a accident with 'hoon spec', and got used to it, then was kinda enjoying that lack-of-traction. I must have thought I was a good driver too LOL.
But no joke guys, You might be the one who is capable of being super driver who can laugh at dori-king, yes! I have no dout.
But handling or trying to handle a car thats not handling properly is not driving.
It is very very dangerous.
Bad traction will lead to bad braking, full stop. DANGEROUS!
Bad accidents cant be predicted. Its just that one short moment that you drove your car over the limit it could take, then there your car goes.
As most likely all 4 shocked are damaged in few month old cheap super low setups, you cant even predict whats gonna happen to the car.
If you want to lower your car, do it properly.
I highly highly recommend getting coilovers. or atleast a good set of sports shocks.
It will cost you back around $2k. But if you add up some money unwisely spent, 2 grand for your perfect custom height, ride smoothness is definately worth it.
My suspension history goes,
on wheels,
some 17" enkei chromies (too wide) $$$
steelies (temporary didnt end up temporary) $$$
BSA 16" (update, but wasnt perfect) $$$
on springs,
superlow springs $$$
standard springs (used) $$$
standard lowered (hated fist-sized gap!!) $$$
labour,
spring replacement $$$ x 3
tyres,
new pair of kumho mx every 3month (camber wear and abnormal wear from cuts made during infinite craping just about everywhere!) $$$
all will add up more then few grand.
I am current set for buddyclub n+ and good offset RP-01 wheels sitting low, all corners covering tyre by around 1 finger. so, pretty low.
I also have full mugen bodykit, and I hit my front bar much much less then my standard lowered springs on oem shocks.
I can say I rarely srap my bumper bar.
short travel shocks ROCK!
this will set me back less than what I have spent before getting these.
Also, coilovers are much more durable, and is worth heck more if you want to sell yours secondhand.
2k coilover will get you atleast half back if you didnt wreck'em.
my few sets of springs that are sale for 140ono each, but costed me around 400 back then.
And you dont want your car to become all raddling, squicking...
Stop telling your mates your cars like that and its cuz its light car and hondas supposed to be raw sounding... true screaming raw sound is nothing compared to your panels dangling noises! value your ride. care with love.
So guys, make a wise choice.
thinking superlow? get coilovers. it will save you alot more at the end.
keep your living shocks wrapped up in your garrage corner,
keep your car from sounding like 10 years older.
Have fun driving a reliable car, then you can sell both the car and coilover at its best conditions.
Dont be a dick and wreck the car which bad suspension. You might wanna sell off your car when its no good nemore, people like me had to be fool'ed and buy one of em....
I done at least around 5x interior strips and changing old clips... still shits me!!
arr... shxt... its 3am... no more beer.... off to sleep...
back from quick wash and brushing, I kinda lost my point guys.... rofl
I definately think I should fix up things and make my point when I wake up.
err... this is why I dont write in OH often. alway lost lol!