Euro vs Mazda6

[Reagan]

My mate told me that a new mazda6 will be released middle next year MAZDA PS 2.3 litre 191kw turbo charged awd. Anyone know about this? Im not sure if its 100% correct but this really beats the euro in performance =)

[NeoNode]

Doesn't look as good as the Euro.

[Type R Positive]

I have read something about this in various car mags. It sounds very good. It is also speculated to come in at around $50k. I haven't seen any more info than what you have stated.

[aaronng]

Mazda6 MPS. Nice car, but the price will be nowhere near the Euro's 34-42k mark. I read in Wheels that it should be priced similarly to the Liberty GT's $52k level.

[baboo]

you can't compare a turbo 4WD with a NA FWD.

If honda come out with a Euro turbo 4WD, it sure will kick the ass out of that MPS

[viperx]

its just more evidence honda australia sucks

where is my accord euro R, my sir-t, my euro spec accord type r? why do i get a fat ass US designed thailand built accord offered to me instead? :(

[coladuna]

AFAIK, Mazda 6 MPS will be priced at around $55K mark which is a whooping $15K more than the Euro Luxury. For that price, you would expect to get something.

[Reagan]

Yeah i read somewhere about a euro turbo awd? thats probably bullshit talk though

"Mazda's MPS is on its way to the showroom. First shown as a concept, the 280bhp 6-based high performance saloon is undergoing final testing in the US. The final car is very close to the subtle original, styled by Peter

Birtwhistle's team at the Mazda design centre in Germany. It runs a turbocharged version of the company's excellent 2.3-litre four-pot engine driving all four wheels. Expect to see it unveiled in the autumn."

[Euro_Boy]

I agree with Baboo.

Besides, why bring out a turbo 6? Is it because Mazda can't design a well performing NA engine.

Also I agree with Coladuna. No matter what Euro you get, your getting value.

I wouldn't even take a second look at the turbo 6.

I think the Mazda 6 is alright but no where near the Euro.

[MiSloVic]

its just more evidence honda australia sucks

where is my accord euro R, my sir-t, my euro spec accord type r? why do i get a fat ass US designed thailand built accord offered to me instead? :(

rumours have it that honda is quietly working on a Accord Euro Turbo too. :D

[aaronng]

Bugger.... Double posted

[aaronng]

Well, Mazda6 was the first to come out. That gave everyone else (Honda and Subaru) a target of bringing out models that would take advantage of the 6's weakness (lack of power). So now it is Mazda6's turn to bring out their new model and then in 1 or 2 years for Honda and Subaru to bring out their update. I'd say all this competition just benefits us. I remember being so shocked by the Euro's low price considering the great engine, handling and features that it came with. But I recognise that the reason we have a great car like the Euro in AUS is because of the Mazda6.

Ohh, and Honda already has the AWD-SH 4WD system (used in the Acura RL). Damn thing can push 100% torque to 1 wheel! All it needs now is a lightweight 3.0 V6 (old NSX engine anyone?) or turbo'd K24A3 Euro engine (possible since it is a long stroke engine) that is light enough not to destroy the Euro's chassis balance. Drool.....

[Type R Positive]

Besides, why bring out a turbo 6? Is it because Mazda can't design a well performing NA engine.
Mazda does have great performing engines, have you heard of a rotary? (I get your point though!)

It is the same as toyota bringing out a turbo corolla and holden with the turbo astra. I think the Mazda6 MPS is aimed squarely at the US market. I think it would do alright, depending on price of course.

Mazda also have the turbo MX5, which would be fun, but expensive.

[Reagan]

euro's will always be my favourite baby!

[coladuna]

Im not sure if its 100% correct but this really beats the euro in performance =)

Yes, and Nissan 350Z beats Euro in performance and so does RX8.
You could say that to literally hundreds of cars, but it'd be pointless because they are in a different class and price range altogether, just like the Euro and Mazda6 MPS.

[Reagan]

mazda6 and euro, there like in competition i gotta support my side =-)

[smoknhothonda]

I read not long ago that the Mazda MPS will be a definate for Australia, and will be unveiled at the paris motor show by memory. It closely resembles the concept vehicle...

I also read about 6 months ago, honda had a turbo AWD also in the making :wave:

[Faiz]

Ive read about this, its 0-100 in 6.8 seconds (6 speed manual). Its all show no go. The subaru libertys 5 speed auto does 0-100 in 6.4 seonds , the liberty gts manual does 5..3 secs i think 0-100. The mazda mps i heard was gona be 55 k and is competing with wrx and liberty Gt.
Like i said, all show no go. Its great looking car but i rather a new honda legend awd is i had a choice between the two. Mazda should just do what they do best, rotary engines. (i have no idea how these work.)

[coladuna]

Its great looking car but i rather a new honda legend awd is i had a choice between the two.

How can you even compare Honda Legend to Mazda6 MPS?
I'm not sure but I'm very inclined to think that new Honda Legend will be close to double the price of Mazda6 MPS or even more.

[Usual Suspect]

i think mazda have lost it for making good performing family/everyday cars if u get what i mean. The MX5, the rotaries and even the MX6 are all well performing vehicles in their own right, but none are exactly practicable for everyday use. THe mazda 6 is a nice car, but when compared to the euro, its nothing. Mazda australia have to get their asses in gear and make a decent performing car that covers as wide a target population as the euro does.

I suppose honda will alwyas have an advantage on NA with VTEC, toyotas VVTi and Mitsu's Mivec arent exactly on the same level are they.

I think the mazda 6 is for those who dont know too much about cars and just get dazzled by the lines, the altezza's and the hype.

[7th Gen]

production model mazda 6 MPS was indeed unveiled at the paris show:
http://www.triplezoom.com/news/publish/article_242.shtml

i think for the estimated RRP it would be a Liberty GT or 3.0R spec B competitor, similar money and concept in a AWD turbo 'sleeper' style car

no big ostentatious wings for these cars :D

[Faiz]

i think mazda have lost it for making good performing family/everyday cars if u get what i mean. The MX5, the rotaries and even the MX6 are all well performing vehicles in their own right, but none are exactly practicable for everyday use. THe mazda 6 is a nice car, but when compared to the euro, its nothing. Mazda australia have to get their asses in gear and make a decent performing car that covers as wide a target population as the euro does.

I suppose honda will alwyas have an advantage on NA with VTEC, toyotas VVTi and Mitsu's Mivec arent exactly on the same level are they.

I think the mazda 6 is for those who dont know too much about cars and just get dazzled by the lines, the altezza's and the hype.


lol toyotas vvti, have you seen the new camry, the power is laughable at the level of a v6.

[NeoNode]

lol toyotas vvti, have you seen the new camry, the power is laughable at the level of a v6.

I'm pretty sure the 1mz-fe can push out more power considering the same engine is used in the Lexus ES300 which has 158kW.

[Faiz]

how big is the engine used in the camry? 3 litres? if so 154 kw is laughable. The acord v6 i think puts out 181 kw of power.

[7th Gen]

camry 3.0 V6 - 145 kW, 284 Nm
accord euro 2.4 four cyl - 140 kW, 223 Nm
accord 3.0 V6 - 177 kW, 287 Nm

and since you mentioned the lexus:
ES300 3.0 V6 - 158 kW, 299Nm but bloody expensive at nearly 80K!!!!

why not include the IS200/300:
IS200 2.0 four cyl - 114 kW, 195 Nm
IS300 3.0 6 cyl - 157 kW, 288 Nm (yes the 2JZ-GE from the NA supra)

power is not everything :D
i guess it depends how you drive it? perhaps the camry V6 makes it's power (and more importantly) torque at lower and much more useable revs
so basically you don't have to thrash the thing all the time

[viperx]

The 1MZ-FE does not have vvti

[qmjona]

Motor mag has the mazda MPS due in Aus before the end of his year with 206kw and AWD.
If this is accurate it will way outperform a euro, but so does a STI or evo, and with these specs this is what the mazda will be aimed at and I'd guess it will cost similar.

ie. although the mazda6 is a competitor for the euro, it won't be realisitic to compare the euro to the MPS.

[7th Gen]

no way they can ADR and compliance the MPS and have it on sale before the end of the year! those release predictions sometimes are way, way off, i have talked to a Mazda Aus rep, he reckons maybe mid next year?

i agree when you say you can't compare a euro and MPS, the MPS is basically the top of the line Mazda 6, if Honda had a hypothetical Accord Euro Type R (or whatever you like to call it), then you could compare the two?

[enoch]

hmm i agree that mazda should stick to rotary, they made history with rotary engines and the rx8 even thou not as good as the rx7 its still a nice decent car.

hopefully things will go back to 1992 when all manufacturers pumps out high performaning cars for the sake of becoming the best...

but personally i like the mazda6, and depending on the look of the MPS version, ill get that over the liberty and euro.

what do u guys think of the sp23 compared with the new civic and corrolla sportivo?

[7th Gen]

SP23 vs new (?) civic and corolla sportivo?

well, 7th gens have been out since end of 2000, when i bought mine :)
corolla sportivos are currently not on sale, something to do with non-ADR compliance with the exhaust or something, not on sale till further notice (go look on the toyota aus website under corolla)

i am assuming you are comparing them due to price. SP23 has 17 inch rims, body kit etc. but it looks too 'high' - that is the trend with most cars these days, to create more interior room. the engine is honest - not that i know much about it, but of course the extra capacity is better than a 1.7 (civic) or 2.0 (corolla) - torque remember :)

[aaronng]

All companies need to have a bread & butter range that sells well before they can put out high performance versions because the volume of the hi-po cars are much lower than the standard models. Unless they have a vault of spending money, the cost of hi-pos have to be covered by the regular range.

Because Mazda sales on the 2, 3 and 6 have done so well, they could afford to bring in the RX-8 and now the MPS because they have the budget to reallocate to cater for ADR compliancing and other costs.

Honda on the other hand sells fewer cars (3533 compared to Mazda's 5543 in June 2004, Source: Wheels magazine). Recently I noticed a mushroom in the number of new Odesseys on the road, so I'm hoping that their sales will improve. Hopefully one day Honda Australia will have the luxury (and enough cash) to bring in their top performance vehicles such as the Civic Type R, Euro R and the new sedan with AWD-SH.

[aaronng]

The new Civic, SP23 and Sportivo are in 3 different segments..Civic is a bread & butter car (1.7 litre SOHC variable valve & lift, 96kW), while the SP23 caters to drivers who want the comfort and the sporty attitude (2.3 litre, variable valve, 115kW). The Sportivo (1.8 litre variable valve & lift, 141kW) caters to the Type R bunch, those who like to rev it to run it. The recall was to fit a new ECU and modified airbox part, so that it delivered the advertised 141kW. The facelifted Sportivo won't be out until next year probably because they are renegotiating their agreement (they sent Sportivos here in exchange for AUS Camrys).

It's unfortunate that Honda Australia has decided to stay out of this 3rd segment, but come to think about it, it's not really Honda's fault. The Integra Type R is expensive (in Japan it is more expensive than the Accord Euro R!), while the Civic is made in UK, so production costs (labour) are high.

If I was driving mainly in the city, I'd take the SP23, or if I wanted economy, then the Civic. If the car was for me to take out into country during the weekends, then I'd go for the Sportivo.

Of course, I want all of the above, so I bought an Euro. Has comfort, fuel economy, drivability at low revs, and the full 140kW for me to rev out when I'm out on the weekend. I know I know, totally different class of car. :D

[NeoNode]

The 1MZ-FE does not have vvti

On the Lexus it does.

[Type R Positive]

there is no such thing as the corolla sportivo any more.

[bigdongers]

there is no such thing as the corolla sportivo any more.


yes there is. Is just being facelifted and we are waiting for the updated model thats all.

[Type R Positive]

yeah, I know.....
But what a bad ass car, I had a long hard look at getting one before getting the Euro. They cut too many corners, so I opted out.

[Archangel]

They're hoping that the MPS will be the next WRX (release April 2005). I think they're going to be a damn nice car, but im happily sticking with my euro.

Some relevant links:
http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/mazda_sps.htm
http://www.media.mazda.com/product_info/2002paris/pdf_e/2002paris3.pdf

[7th Gen]

i don't quite understand how you could consider between the corolla sportivo and accord euro. in my opinion both are 2 totally different cars and of course different price range! you are looking at least a few grands difference between the 2, even if you compare the base euro manual

as for the MPS being the next WRX, somehow it doesn't sound right. i think Liberty/Legacy is a more appropriate comparison

aaronng - what do you do? you don't by any chance work for toyota do you? :D
also, your posts seem very well thought out and gramatically correct, unlike most of the drivel here :D

[aaronng]

aaronng - what do you do? you don't by any chance work for toyota do you? :D
also, your posts seem very well thought out and gramatically correct, unlike most of the drivel here :D
This post slipped under my nose! Time to resurrect!
I am a Toyota 4A-GE fan. Been a fan for over 4 years. I've done as much research (late nights online. HAHA) as I could on it. When the 2ZZ-GE came out, obviously, I did more searching and reading on it as it seemed to be the successor to the 4A-GE. So in the end, I've gone through most of the technicalities and driving characteristics for the engines... When the Corolla Sportivo came out, I was so happy! Was going to buy one, did all the research, my friend bought one too. But..... in the end, the Euro offerred better value for the money, better safety and space, as well as being future proof (i.e. when I have kids, I won't have to upgrade yet). So I am basically, a Toyota fan who bought a Honda. :D And.... now that I've been driving the Euro more and more, I think I made the right choice!

With regards to the grammar, I'm in research, so all the papers, journals and posters that we write HAVE to be grammatically correct. We are not even allowed to start a sentence with "This"!

[Slugoid]

This post slipped under my nose! Time to resurrect!
I am a Toyota 4A-GE fan. Been a fan for over 4 years. I've done as much research (late nights online. HAHA) as I could on it. When the 2ZZ-GE came out, obviously, I did more searching and reading on it as it seemed to be the successor to the 4A-GE.

I think you're missing the 3S-GE. 4A-GE was like the 80's, then the 90's was the 3S-GE and the late 90's saw the rise of the 2ZZ-GE. It's a great engine, but only if it is mated with a real lightweight body (such as the MRS). Unfortunately with the Corolla Sportivo is that it weighed just as much as the Celica, and the body just didn't suit the engine (imo). Friend has a Celica and I have no problem keeping up with him, and this is on an auto Euro.

I use to be a Toyota fan, but as of recent, they have made boring cars with boring engines. Only exciting car left in the range that is fun is the Aristo (still has the 2JE-GTE engine), Altezza (with 3S-GE) and the MRS. These cars, except for the MRS, will not last long due to the new emission laws. Quite sad indeed.

Toyota has lost it's edge in the sporting sector imo. Honda seems to be going ok (with the ITR, CTR, Euro-R, s2K and the still suriving NSX) but my money is on Mazda right now. So far all their cars are exciting, and I can see them leading the high end sports car market in the future. The RX8 is just the beginning....wait until the new RX7 comes out (which it will release). The upcomming Mazda6 MPS, although not my cup of tea, is a sign of more good things to come.

[aaronng]

If I remember correctly, the 3S series came out while the 4A was halfway through its life-cycle. Basically it was a 2 liter version of the 4A series. 3S-GE was good, too bad only 2 cars had it under its bonnet, the MR2 G Limited and Altezza. I wish they brought that Altezza here as well, but too bad Lexus wanted the 6-cyl IS200 so badly...

[viperx]

i think there's been more than 2 cars with the 3s-gte under the bonnet in jdm since it was released.

[Slugoid]

Celica GT4 is one

[aaronng]

I was talking about the 3S-GE, not the GTE. the 4A-GE, 3S-GE, 2ZZ-GE are no match for the 3S-GTE. But the NA engines are always more fun to drive.