cut springs

[myztery]

ok i know you guys are gonna curse me but i may as well get in trouble in this thread,

i need to know exactly whats going to happen if i chop the springs on my stock eg suss...
besides " oh bro its gonna be a rough ride as bro "... ive heard that before but after technical support please is what i need..
thank you.
myztery

[vinnY]

i'll let the experts (http://whiteline.com.au/faqsprings.htm#Why%20don't%20I%20just%20cut%20my%2 0existing%20springs?) do the talking

[thegame-01]

i got a mate that has a sx corolla and the springs are chopped..
its bumpy assssssssss lol

u can compress the springs as well if u like. my mate has a SSS n15 with compressed springs

dam its so low its not funny

[55EXX]

break the law. that will happen.

but on a serious note you will most probably if your bump stops are still intact just ride around on them so it will be rough as guts. but on its guts. visually good handling terrible.

[Sir_vtec]

1. It shortens the life of ur oem shocks if u decide to do it.
2. If u cut it and dont curl the bottom of the spring in so that it sits flat. They ll slip from the perch of the shock. (dangerous)
3. Rough ride. not worth it.
4. Uneven ride height, i guarantee you.


Dont be a tight arse and go buy lowered springs otherwise dont cut it at all.

[4age8u]

i chopped my old dx rolla..it was mad..stiff like go cart...shocks didnt blow..just get an alighnment afta

[Lukey]

get them compressed.

[jdm_kid]

can afford to buy boost but not buy lowered springs ?

[JohnL]

get them compressed.

Compressing a spring to achieve X length is worse than cutting the spring to ahieve X length (which is bad enough...).

At least when you cut the spring you reduce the wire length in the spring which increases the spring rate to some degree (not usually enough to compensate for the reduced length, so the suspension still bottoms out too readily).

But, when you compress the spring the wire length remains the same and so the spring rate remains the same and so the suspension will botom out even more easily than with a cut spring...

[JohnL]

i chopped my old dx rolla..it was mad..stiff like go cart...shocks didnt blow..just get an alighnment afta

That will be because you were riding on the bump stops...

[SiReal]

JohnL, you seem pretty good with this stuff. What about cutting dead coils? I have a set of springs for the rear of my boat 01 Accord, and it has I think 5 dead coils, all sitting on top of each other, not moving, not doing anything but keeping the spring captive.

Does cutting one dead coil change the spring rate? Even with the above mentioned.

[Paul1985]

i chopped my old dx rolla..it was mad..stiff like go cart...shocks didnt blow..just get an alighnment afta

An alignment will do nothing for lengthening shock life at all. I'm not sure if thats what you meant?

If your too tight to pay to properly lower the car then i don't know if you would get it alignened either???

Sir_vtec is on the money.

[moo moo nel]

the $ spent on cutting them why not get a set of proper springs

[vinnY]

by 'cut' i think he means backyard hacksaw style

[moo moo nel]

LOL

fair enough

[ndeuro_]

i dont think u can hacksaw it. u need an angle grinder

[JohnL]

and it has I think 5 dead coils, all sitting on top of each other, not moving, not doing anything but keeping the spring captive.

That's not unimportant, it's better that the spring always remains captive, and I'm pretty sure it's a legal requirement that they do.


Does cutting one dead coil change the spring rate? Even with the above mentioned.

No. The dead coils do almost nothing beyond keeping the springs captive, though cutting one coil will mean pre-load becomes less more quickly as the spring extends in droop.

What purpose is served by cutting a dead coil? Lowering by more or less the wire thickness? Slight reduction in unsprung mass?

[JohnL]

i dont think u can hacksaw it. u need an angle grinder

Spring steel can be cut with a hack saw reasonably easily, but an angle grinder is less work...

Not that it's a good idea to cut springs unless you really know what you're doing and have a good reason to do it (and a cosmetic drop isn't a good reason).

[dsp26]

That's not unimportant, it's better that the spring always remains captive, and I'm pretty sure it's a legal requirement that they do.


correct.

perfect example are adjustable coil sleeves... despite how stiff they are to compensate versus less (cut) coils their not captive and they bounce around on the perch dynamically... this also dynamically changes camber everytime it shifts.

this is from first hand experience... you go on bumpy roads or hit a hole on wet road and you'll die.. period!

[dsp26]

if you must cut your springs then invest in pretensioner springs to make them captive... even then their $130 a pair from sussy shops... you may as well get lowered springs


see the smaller thinner springs at the top... thats what you need.... whiteline make them. they come as a kit as they need the in between mount/spacer to keep them aligned:
http://www.performancealloys.com/images/suspension_pics/pss9.jpg


the only other real alternative is to increase the thread length for the strut shaft that bolts onto the upper mounts to make the cut spring captive... this is also expensive.

the problem with lowered springs in generally including kings springs (as well as cut springs) is that their not stiff enough to compensate. Even if you get the strongest bump stops possible it will keep hitting your upper mounts anyway and demolish them within a couple of months.

improper lowered springs in general are just dangerous and stupid... king spring super lows even are for show use... their so stupid on the road and people think their car "handles like its on rails" or "handles like a go cart"... its because its bottomed out and theres no spring action except for when you bounce and the spring momentarily goes uncaptive from the shaft extending. people who have this mindset don't know a thing about sussy geometry and have never driven on proper performance suspension and mistake uber stiffness for a racecar qualities.

[aaronng]

How much are you going to spend to cut your springs with regards to tools? Total that and compare that to the price of king springs.

[dsp26]

How much are you going to spend to cut your springs with regards to tools? Total that and compare that to the price of king springs.

thats true...

the other cheap alternative is get the spoon replica springs from ebay shop 4caroption.

at least their stiffer than dc2r springs, they drop 2inches... and their captive.. progressive rears... AU$140 delivered

[mars_panas]

haha cut springs.... don't go der dude... had cut springs b4 i installed my tein springs...

cut springs a little bump you can feel it like the whole sus makes a noise like its about to snap....

[xmkydx]

if you do cut them, its better to use a hacksaw, it takes longer, but you dont heat the metal as much, which will affect the spring rates.
basically cut springs will give you:
- lower ride height
- shock absorber travel out of range (if you dont already fully compress the shock into the body and sit on the bump stop)
- shorter spring life (they will droop sooner)
- may come off the perch if you hit a dip

[dsp26]

^^^it WILL come off the perch

[myztery]

How much are you going to spend to cut your springs with regards to tools? Total that and compare that to the price of king springs.

for free, im an apprentice and all the tools are at work

[dsp26]

for free, im an apprentice and all the tools are at work

If its just for aesthetics then do you really need it and want the danger or hassle of a lowered car? leave it as is....

[myztery]

thats true...

the other cheap alternative is get the spoon replica springs from ebay shop 4caroption.

at least their stiffer than dc2r springs, they drop 2inches... and their captive.. progressive rears... AU$140 delivered

thats in us dollers by the time it comes here it will be $ 213 au

[hastE]

thats in us dollers by the time it comes here it will be $ 213 au

obviously your too cheap to listen to what others have to say.

why bother posting, when it is inevitable that you will cut your springs seing as your an "apprentice" with all the tools of the trade.

[ndeuro_]

i rkn just do what u want. if u have an accident then ull learn not to do it again. i dont see a point in people dissin what u do. its not like everyone is loaded etc.

[vinnY]

ndeuro a fan of natural selection i see?
everyones giving you crap because it's just simply not safe, con's far outweigh the pro's in this case

do it as your own risk, but don't say we didn't warn you

[ndeuro_]

as i said, he got enough warnings. let him do it and if it ****s up then shits on him. but yeah natural selection is awesome. smart ones stay alive =]

[myztery]

obviously your too cheap to listen to what others have to say.

why bother posting, when it is inevitable that you will cut your springs seing as your an "apprentice" with all the tools of the trade.


acually try not to diss me as an apprentice im already a trade mechanic just redoing 3rd year tafe and your smart ass comments mean shit to this thread which isnt very useful, in me saying that i can do it for free means that labour is free i only need experience and technical knowledge not ass-holes cheers

[myztery]

i rkn just do what u want. if u have an accident then ull learn not to do it again. i dont see a point in people dissin what u do. its not like everyone is loaded etc.

exactly ppl like me dnt grow weed for a livin and sell guns on the streets we gotta do the hard yards...

[JohnL]

if you do cut them, its better to use a hacksaw, it takes longer, but you dont heat the metal as much, which will affect the spring rates.

If one were to shorten a spring (and I'm not suggesting this is in any way a good idea), it makes no real difference how they're cut.

Cutting with an angle grinder might possibly affect the heat treatment (you know of the steel goes yellow or blue etc), but if so then only at the very end (new end) of the spring wire where the spring doesn't flex.

If you cut with an oxy torch then you'll definitely affect the temper over a few cm at the end of the spring wire, but even this longer area of annealed steel doesn't flex as most of the first coil at each end of the spring is supported by the spring seat.

Only if the spring wire were annealed at some point on the spring where the coils are unsupported (by the rigid spring seats) and thus be free to flex under load would an issue exist.

Pesonally I wouldn't use a torch just because the cut won't be as neat as with a saw or angle grinder.

[dsp26]

^^^good post as usual... i think i've given you way too much rep for your sussy posts already lol.






on another note since a couple of people asked me... to measure your shock travel its easy:
- tightly ziptie the shaft
- push the shock all the way in, the ziptie will move up the shaft as it goes in the shock
- see where the ziptie sits... thats where you bottom out
- simple huh?
- now get yourself bumpstops that sit AT LEAST 1inch above this point.. however thats my rule of thumb.. for those of you who like it low just make sure you have 1cm gap and SOLID rubber bumpstops which you can buy from repco, etc...

Unfortunately you can't really test your brand spanker springs on if they bottom out the bumpstops until you drive around for a week and let them settle. This is the reason i replaced the honda factory metal dust boots with the rubber ones that came with my bumpstops, i could easily lift them to check on my bumpstops.. had you left the honda ones in the only way to find out is disassemble the shock assembly again... its a pain in the arse to wind springs without power tools fellas



There is a BIG difference between shocks bottoming out and bumpstops bottoming out.
- your bumpstops bottoming out is your sign that your car is too low. The bumpstop will tear apart eventually and then your shocks will bottom out!