need HELP!!! b16a swap wiring

[qikteg]

okay, i'm stumped on a few things...

Exhibit A (not my manifold):

http://www.ff-squad.com/tech/sensors/purgesolenoid.jpg

Okay,

1. big black thing in the middle of the picture. what is it, and what does it do? do the additional vaccum lines need to go anywhere?

2. Smaller white thing just beneath black thing. Is that the air temp sensor? I can't seem to find one on my actual manifold...

3. Where is the Vtec Oil pressure sensor?

more than likely more questions to be asked when i think of them

[Limo]

ok you prob should post a actual pic of your manifold to make things easier. but ill have a go anyway

1. dont know what its called, but all the vac lines go into the bottom of it, ive seen a few diff manifolds with more vac lines on the front next to the TB and some without. top hose goes to my fuel reg. mine is attached to to my map sensor (bolted on the same bracket)

2. ive got one on the front of the manifold, im pretty sure its a o2 sensor. i guess diff engines have diff locations, my mates eg2 engine didnt have one either so they just poped on into the intake arm

3. no idea.

[civic88]

1. evap
2. IAT sensor (air sensor)
3. It's on the side near where the vtec switch, if it's not there then you got a 96-99 b16a which doesnt have a vtec pressure sensor

[ECU-MAN]

1. evap
2. IAT sensor (air sensor)
3. It's on the side near where the vtec switch, if it's not there then you got a 96-99 b16a which doesnt have a vtec pressure sensor

this dude is on the money

OBDIIa cars have the IAT in the intake pipe, not the manifold. use the one in your manifold if you go turbo. otherwise keep it in the intak pipe

[fatboyz39]

1. big black thing in the middle of the picture. what is it, and what does it do? do the additional vaccum lines need to go anywhere?

2. Smaller white thing just beneath black thing. Is that the air temp sensor? I can't seem to find one on my actual manifold...

3. Where is the Vtec Oil pressure sensor?

more than likely more questions to be asked when i think of them

1. EVAP

2. Air temp sensor (late model b16a are on the intake arm)

3. Late model B16a dont run vtec oil pressure switch. You need to bridge 2 wires on the conversion harness. (will update which ones later)

[qikteg]

Okay, things are starting to clear up. itsa b16a2, so i wired an airtemp sensor into the filter box.

Round 2

1. What are the "purge cut off solenoid valve" and the "pressure regulator cutoff solenoid valve"? where abouts are they located? i'm not sure that my da3 has either...

2. do i just bridge the vtec oil pressure sensor into the regular oil pressure sensor?

3. are main relays for all hondas the same? more specifically, will the main relay for my da3 be the same relay for a b16a setup?

[TODA AU]

Okay, things are starting to clear up. itsa b16a2, so i wired an airtemp sensor into the filter box.

Round 2

1. What are the "purge cut off solenoid valve" and the "pressure regulator cutoff solenoid valve"? where abouts are they located? i'm not sure that my da3 has either...

2. do i just bridge the vtec oil pressure sensor into the regular oil pressure sensor?

3. are main relays for all hondas the same? more specifically, will the main relay for my da3 be the same relay for a b16a setup?

1:Charcoal chanister - the switching part on top of the diaphragm.
You can delete the vacuum switching valve & just run vacuum to the charcoal chanister switch if you're running one.

2. No, John (ECU-MAN) has posted what to do here before. You need to loop the Vtec oil pressure sensor wire back at the ECU end to the Vtec wire. But this also depends on the ECU you're running & if its using an aftermarket tuning solution where this error can simply be switched off.

3. In operation yes. In appearance no... But yes, the main relay from the DA3 can be used to do the same job with the B16A installed.

[qikteg]

1. so the EVAP is the purge cut off solenoid valve?
2. Cheers, i'll do a search
3. cool..

i'll get stuck into it tomorrow and get back to you with further questions and pictures

[qikteg]

okay, evap wired in...

1. back to the first pic, next to the evap, there's that elbow bend pipe pointing upwards. what is that?

2. what is the fuel pressure regulator cutoff solenoid valve? do b16a2's have this valve?

[ECU-MAN]

1, goes to the brake booster via check valve

2, OBDI and OBDIIa and b dont have FPR solenoid

[qikteg]

Thread revival cos I'm at the stage where i'm wiring in the vtec oil pressure switch.. So I'm retro wiring a b16a2 to run on an obd0 pr3 ecu, so there's no vtec oil pressure switch. Can someone confirm how I'm supposed bridge the wires with this setup? I couldn't find ecumans writeup, so if someone link me, that would be good too... Cheers

[CRXer]

u need to bridge the oil pressure input pin to the ecu permanently to ground.

[ECU-MAN]

http://b16a2.kicks-ass.net/tech/dis-vtp.JPG


convert the OBDI pins to OBDO and your good to go

[qikteg]

http://b16a2.kicks-ass.net/tech/dis-vtp.JPG


convert the OBDI pins to OBDO and your good to go




2. No, John (ECU-MAN) has posted what to do here before. You need to loop the Vtec oil pressure sensor wire back at the ECU end to the Vtec wire.




u need to bridge the oil pressure input pin to the ecu permanently to ground.

Okay, i'm thoroughly confused. I can't figure out if you're all saying the same thing or not. Overall, i'm getting the idea that the VTEC Oil Pressure sensor isn't all that vital, and that the PR3 ECU can be looped to get things functional. It seems that I have to ground the VTEC Oil Pressure sensor Pin to the ground, but i'm not sure whats the best way to do it. i'll try to address things separately.

ECU-MAN - the diagram you showed me, I'm not entirely sure what it represents, I assume its a plug or relay of some sort, but if you could tell me what "VTP" and "VTS" stand for, then i can begin to figure it out.

TODA-AU - What you're saying seems slightly different to the other two, in that you don't mention grounding...

CRXer - i get the feeling what you're saying is the same as ECU-MAN, but maybe doing it a different way.

[CRXer]

pr3 has to see oil pressure before it allows vtec.

oil pressure switch closes when enough pressure & sends ground to the ecu.

ecu-man shows relay activated by VTS(vtec solenoid wire 12V) which inturn closes relay to send ground to VTP(vtec oil pressure switch input at ecu).

now i must be missing something john,but how will the VTS wire activate if it doesnt see VTP signal input first?

my understanding is(never tried it),but if u connect VTP input to ecu to a permanent ground connection, then ecu will always see oil pressure sufficient to activate vtec.

[CRXer]

are u sure u dont have green 2 pin connector on vtec solenoid(VTP switch)?

[qikteg]

i'm positive its a single pin connector on the vtec solenoid..

[CRXer]

yes,single pin is the VTS connection,u would see a very obvious 2 pin green connector right next to the single pin connector if u had a VTP,it looks like this

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/CRXer/IMG_1270_1_1.jpg

[qikteg]

I definately don't have that. its a b16a2, which from previous posts, i'm led to believe doesn't have that.

[CRXer]

any motor could have anything,someone could of thrown an earlier model solenoid on the motor,ive heard endless stories of jdm motors not having them,but mine did,anyway,

ok,seems i got that arse about.

bloody honda wiring diagram shows normally open switch for VTP,went & checked my own,& its bloody normally closed.

VTEC does not need to see oil pressure to activate,it justs drops out if oil pressure not sufficient while activated.
Since VTP switch is normally closed,VTEC needs to see no ground on VTP input when VTS activated.

So short answer is ECUMAN was correct,follow his diagram closely(like i didnt,lol) with a double throw relay & make sure ground input to ecu on VTP is normally closed.

edit:just found another typo in the EF8 shop manual for testing VTP switch....dumb......

[Benson]

Its all in the ecu wiring..Since your using a ob1 ECU?(im assuming) it has the vtec pressure function. All you gota do is find the vtec pressure switch pinout and bridge it with the vtec pin-out.

That is all you need to do

[ECU-MAN]

Jason, Ill explain it for you,

VTP ( VTEC Pressure Switch )

when the engine is at idle and NOT in VTEC the sensor detects no oil pressure after the VTS ( VTEC Spool Solenoid ) so its contacts are closed, thus sending continuity to ground to OBDI D6. When VTS is engaged, the VTP will detect pressure and open its contacts and remove continuity to ground thus making D6 open circuit to the ECU and the ECU confirms VTEC has engaged

- so if you just ground VTP OBDI D6 to ground then the ECU will think VTEC has engaged but oil pressure is not present and then you get code 22.

Now Ill Explain the Relay trick

86 and 85 are the relay coil terminals. VTS gives out 12v when energised so you connect 85 to VTS and 86 to ground, now the relay energises when VTS does.

87a and 30 are the relay contacts, 30 is Common and 87a is NC ( normally closed ) so 30 goes to ground and 87a goes to VTP. So when VTS is not enabled VTP sees ground signal and when VTS activates VTP goes open circuit making the ECU happy.


very simple really.

for OBDO just substitue
VTP OBDI D6 for OBD0 B5
VTS OBDI A4 for OBD0 A8

[qikteg]

Its all in the ecu wiring..Since your using a ob1 ECU?(im assuming) it has the vtec pressure function. All you gota do is find the vtec pressure switch pinout and bridge it with the vtec pin-out.

That is all you need to do

i'm using OBD0, PR3 ECU. It was easier than a full obd1 conversion (or so I thought. probably wasn't in retrospect)

Thanks guys, i'll give it a go, let you know how it works out or if i run into any problems.

[CRXer]

ive never really looked at it before john,mine has always worked & if it didnt,id prob just disable the code in software anyway,without bother fixing it,lol.I always just assumed the VTP was pre VTEC oil circuit as well,doh.

if u have a look at the basic ecu schematic in the manual it shows VTP as normally open.
& if u have a quick glance at the VTP state at the end of a EF8 manual VTP check flowchart it says "when oil pressure high,VTP switch should show continuity",obvious typo by the honda boys.
thats why i assumed OBD0 must be reversed for VTP,similar to the way IAB is reversed from OBD1 to OBD2.

i like bensons neat little fix but,it would take the possibility of introducing another low impedance coil from a too big relay onto the VTS circuit.Maybe u should add that to the relay selection advice on that diagram.

[ECU-MAN]

Although that method seems to work, I dont like jaming the VTP to the VTS,
never had a problem with the extra load and resistance of the relay before either. Disabling the VTP in the code is by far the best option.

[CRXer]

i know what u mean,i didnt like VTP straight to VTS either when i first saw it,but i just cant think of a situation where a problem might arise,maybe i missed something.

i dont know what the VTS output is rated at but it wouldnt hurt to just use the smallest relay u can find to save burning it out,something like a little 5-10A relay.i could just imagine somebody throwing what ever they found in the garage like a 150A or something & spending all day at the track on vtec & BAM...no more vtec,lol.

[qikteg]

So in order to go down the relay option, I actually need to add an external relay to the wiring to get this to work?

Sorry for being a noob, but all you guys are being a great help.

[CRXer]

yes,to use a relay,u need a relay,lol.

its up to u,which way u go,i cant see anything wrong with bensons method,but if u want peace of mind then use a relay.

just get a relay rated at something less than say 30Amp(the smaller the better),just dont get something rated at 50Amp+. Make sure it is SPDT & has a 12Vdc coil & wire up as per diagram given.

[ECU-MAN]

and no diode across the relay coil

[qikteg]

yes,to use a relay,u need a relay,lol.

its up to u,which way u go,i cant see anything wrong with bensons method,but if u want peace of mind then use a relay.

just get a relay rated at something less than say 30Amp(the smaller the better),just dont get something rated at 50Amp+. Make sure it is SPDT & has a 12Vdc coil & wire up as per diagram given.

lol, as straight forward as it sounded, i thought i'd better check.

cool. i feel confident now to know what i'm doing. i'll give it a go over the weekend, and as expected, i'll post if i have issues.

thanks

[qikteg]

Okay, so I've gone out and bought a 30amp 5 pin relay (it was the smallest one they had at supercheapauto) so now I can see what's going on... My last question is just about how to physically wire it up... So the VTP is fine, that wires straight from the ecu into the relay... But for the VTS, do I have to do anything special, or is it just a matter of tapping into the wire and hookng it into the relay?

Cheers

[ECU-MAN]

yes tap into the wire and run it to the relay