Basic B20 build questions

[_FeRiO_]

Hey guys. Im considering upgrading to a basic B20 setup for my DC2 VTIR and want to ask a few (actually alot) of questions in regards to my build.

I am considering the following setup:

Stock B20 Bottom End
P72 B18c Head
Rod Bolts (ARP??)
Head Studs (ARP??)
Cams (ITR??)

Spoon Header
Intake Manifold (Skunk 2, edelbrock Victor X or Performer X??)
Intake (comptech ice box)
Throttle Body (68mm??)
Mugen twinloop axelback
Hi flow metal cat

ECU (Hondata S200/300??)

I already have the Intake, Header and Exhaust which im intending to use to save money.

1. Firstly, anybody have any opinions/critisms on the selection of parts i have chosen for the build. Any feedback would be great! I need as much info as possible :)

2. Will my Comptech intake be compatible with an aftermarket IM and TB setup as suggested above?

3. In regards to cams, are there any cams which are slightly more aggresive than the ITRs which do not require the valve springs etc to be changed?

4. Would a 68mm TB be suitable for a basic setup like this?

5. Any thoughts on breather kits for B20's and if they would be necessary? (as i have read B20's do not have breather boxes?)

Thanks guys :thumbsup:

[phwoaaa]

ek9 cams and camshaft are more aggresive... i dont think ud need to change valve springs and retainers to change those ... but you might as well since your gonna be doing it....

and the list of parts you got there seem fine to me are u going to be using standard itr injectors?

id guess that the intake would not fit if u were to go for a bigger TB but , im not 100% sure with that .. im running a bigger skunk2 TB and iv just got a custom cai... does the job fine :)

oh.. and i heard tri-y header setup was one of the best ... but everyone has diff opinions .. and you've missed the golden eagle vtec conversion kit about 300-350$

[_FeRiO_]

Oh i didn't know the EK9 cams were more agressive then ITR. Thanks for the info!
As for injectors, i'm not sure what size injectors would be suitable. Would standard DC2 vtir injectors be enough or do i have to upgrade?
And yes, ive accounted for the GE VTEC conversion kit. standard item for this setup so i thought i wont list it.

[fatboyz39]

Im pretty sure the late model ITR and CTR cams are exactly the same. Since the motor is apart i would change piston rings, check rod bearing, mains, notch the pistons, ARP rod bolts. Standrad injectors will be fine.

Look for some b20 builds on here, power ranges from 110-130kw atw.

[_FeRiO_]

Thanks Fatboyz39. I will be looking into freshening up the motor once its apart.

[TODA AU]

My 5 cents worth is as follows:

Keep the standard VtiR intake manifold (Just clean it up inside a little)
Don’t go bigger than 65mm in the throttle
Sort out the piston fly cuts when they’re out
If the budget permits, do the rings, bearings & gaskets too...

Put the money from the manifold into bigger cams & suitable springsRe breather: We use this one… http://www.theoldone.com/components/breather/ (http://www.theoldone.com/components/breather/)
Or you can make the same from Morosso parts and a few other bits for a bit less...

[Benson]

Stock B20 Bottom End :thumbsup:
P72 B18c Head :thumbsup:
Rod Bolts (ARP) :thumbsup:
Head Studs (ARP??) No need for stock build
Cams (ITR) :thumbsup:

Spoon Header :thumbdwn: Use Tri - Y design headers
Intake Manifold (Skunk 2, edelbrock Victor X or Performer X??) Stock is fine
Intake (comptech ice box) :thumbdwn: Get a custom Long Ram Intake 70mm, make sure you get a good filter
Throttle Body (68mm) :thumbsup:
Mugen twinloop axelback Get a custom 2.5icnh from Headers back
Hi flow metal cat :thumbsup:

ECU (Hondata S200/300) Crome is cheaper




3. In regards to cams, are there any cams which are slightly more aggresive than the ITRs which do not require the valve springs etc to be changed? Use stock Vtir Vavle train with the cams is ok


4. Would a 68mm TB be suitable for a basic setup like this? Yes 68mm is ok


5. Any thoughts on breather kits for B20's and if they would be necessary? (as i have read B20's do not have breather boxes?)

Buy the fittings from Honda for the block and get a cheap catch can setup

[A-man]

what about a b16a head?? is there any difference

im looking at doing one for a ed civic

what do u mean by the piston fly cuts???

if it was me im however goin turbo aswell... but if i was id use the 4-1 headers it has a better scavenging affect..

[_FeRiO_]

Thanks guys!

Could someone explain what piston fly cuts mean?

Also TODA, when you say save the money from the IM purchase for larger cams, do you mean larger cams than ITR? If so, what cams do you recommend?

[TODA AU]

The pistons flycuts or valve releifs in the B20B or B20Z standard piston,
Are too small for the B16/B18 Vtec head.
That said, with standard cams, there is no problem...
The problem exists / occurs when cams of greater lift & duration are used.
In this instance, the valve, which is larger than the valve releif in the piston,
Can / will contact the piston.
Addressing the valve relief or flycut solves this potential failure point.
NB: The main focus of this is the intake side.
This addressingf of the flycuts means to either enlarge them by hand with a mop or similar or drop them off at your local machine shop to be done properly.
The radius of the cut needs to be inceased, not the depth so to speak.

As for cams,
You won't go wrong with a set of TODA Spec B's

[_FeRiO_]

Very interesting. Another thing i will have to look into.

For my intended budget i was aiming to keep my standard valves, springs etc, Therefore looking at the most agressive cams that would suit. Would TODA Spec A's be applicable?

However, If i do save the money from not purchasing an aftermarket IM, what would it roughly cost to up grade cams, springs etc?? PM if you wish.

[Benson]

Piston's will definately need the valve relief cut. Do it right the first time around.

For stock valve train, ill stick to ITR cams at most. I wont go any bigger than ITR cams

[A-man]

how much do u recess them by? how many mm will this compromise the durability of the piston

[trism]

what about aftermarket pistons? any decent ones for b20 that dont require machining for valve relief?

[TODA AU]

how much do u recess them by? how many mm will this compromise the durability of the piston
B20B std intake valve is 31mm diameter head,
Std B16A/B18C intake valve is 33mm head
This gives an obvious increase of 1mm in flycut radius.
Rather than guess, you should clay the pistons tops to double check,
Durability compromise is yes & no...
Machined / dressed just enough & it's not over stressed in use or tune.
Reliability is uncompromised.
Overdone on the machining / dressing and or over stressed use or tuning
Reliability can be severly compromised.


what about aftermarket pistons? any decent ones for b20 that dont require machining for valve relief?
Yes...
We have TODA Pistons in stock for this exact use.

[Benson]

RS machine piston!

Do a little research on them.

Most of the yanks use RS machine pistons as they are cheap and are bang for bang. They are half the price of any well branded pistons on the market

They make amazing power. They were designed around the ITR style piston but in 84mm size.

With the right combo, those piston can make over 150kws. Comp will be around 11.7:1 depending on the head

[_FeRiO_]

Ive seen alot of US B20 builds using these RS Machine pistons. Would you recommend using these with stock rods with upgraded rod bolts? Also, would there be great power difference in using the RS machine pistons along with a P72 head with ITR cams and IM compared to a full stock bottom end?

[Benson]

Stock rods and upgraded ARP rod bolts are perfect for the RS machine pistons.

In terms of power, you will probably see the potential of the RS machine bottom end work better with a bigger cam and some port work.

Having said that, if your looking to upgrade at a later stage, the RS machine bottom end would be ideal.

The stock bottom end can only go so far thats why the rs machine bottom end is a better platform.

If your not looking to do anymore work to the engine, then the stock bottom end is your winner

[TODA AU]

In the context of this thread, “Basic B20 Build”
& you’re after a cheap reliable street B20, cast pistons will probably serve you well.
It’s all good & well to do things on a budget…
Just don't be fooled by snake oil…

[_FeRiO_]

Not sure what you mean by being fooled by snake oil, but im trying to gather as much information as i can before i plan my setup. What do you think is necessary in a budget reliable setup for a B20 apart from piston fly cuts?

[Benson]

if its not a race car, cast pistons are fine. I will only use forged pistons if the engine is use under extreme pressure i.e racing

[replenished.soul]

Stock rods and upgraded ARP rod bolts are perfect for the RS machine pistons.

In terms of power, you will probably see the potential of the RS machine bottom end work better with a bigger cam and some port work.

Having said that, if your looking to upgrade at a later stage, the RS machine bottom end would be ideal.

The stock bottom end can only go so far thats why the rs machine bottom end is a better platform.

If your not looking to do anymore work to the engine, then the stock bottom end is your winner

Rs machine pistons ayes benson? hmmm lolz

[ZeForce]

Not sure what you mean by being fooled by snake oil, but im trying to gather as much information as i can before i plan my setup. What do you think is necessary in a budget reliable setup for a B20 apart from piston fly cuts?

ARP rod bolts + head studs and good tuning

[_FeRiO_]

replenished.soul, you using RS machine pistons on a B20 setup?

[_FeRiO_]

Thanks ZeForce, im impressed with the power output of your motor. Any trips down the quarter yet?

[ZeForce]

Thanks ZeForce, im impressed with the power output of your motor. Any trips down the quarter yet?

Not yet, AIR is reopening in the new year.... cant wait :cool:

[_FeRiO_]

Should be good, interested to see what times you can pull.

Would you have any further info towards my setup since your going from experience, like what you would have wished you had done differently when the motor was out etc?

[ZeForce]

Should be good, interested to see what times you can pull.

Would you have any further info towards my setup since your going from experience, like what you would have wished you had done differently when the motor was out etc?

Im quite happy with my current "basic" setup.... If I was gonna do cams though, I wouldnt bother enlarging the valve reliefs. I would just install new high comp pistons and rings while I'm at it.

[RtN]

What would make a B20 reliable for quiet a while? sleeves? changed pistons, rods??

[TODA AU]

Not sure what you mean by being fooled by snake oil, but im trying to gather as much information as i can before i plan my setup. What do you think is necessary in a budget reliable setup for a B20 apart from piston fly cuts?

If you’re going to do it on a tight budget & never change the cams,
Get your Vtec head & take it to the head shop.
Have it overhauled & at the same time get the location dowel holes drilled on the other side + weld up the Vtec oil supply hole.
Just use an OEM B20 head gasket.
Then make yourself an oil feed line for the Vtec & plumb it into the back of the head.
You’ll need either an oil block adaptor or a t-piece under the oil pressure switch.
You can get the parts to do this from Enzed, Pirtek, Earls or Speedflow.
Fit your new water pump & B18C timing belt, Strap it together & you’re done.
If you want to spend more money, use one of the conversion kits available.
Now if you use larger than STD cam, this includes Type R cams, you run the risk of the valves touching the pistons as the valve heads are larger than the fly cuts in the pistons.
To run larger cams this needs to be addressed.
This is an optional process when STD cams are used but it offers a small degree of insurance should you over rev the engine by chance. (On a down shift)
Even with STD cams, the valves cam make contact with the pistons in an over rev situation.
The term budget is fairly loose…
On this forum it seems to be a term more closely associated with cheap as possible or minimum effort.
Above is what I would say is the minimum effort required.
This is also the lowest possible benchmark for performance from this sort of combination.
Headwork & cams will allow the engine to produce more power.
Strengthening the bottom end will allow the engine to rev harder & survive extended periods of abuse.


The term “Snake Oil” was me being cynical in reference cheap cast pistons to being pushed as “on par” with top shelf forged pistons or even OEM pistons for that matter.
Think about it… TODA, Mahle, CP, Wiseco, & others…
What fools they are to make pistons the expensive way by forging them…
How silly… when they could have simply cast them…
Strangely, forged pistons are still stronger for some reason?
& really good ones run the same pistons to bore clearance as OEM cast pistons?
Making them quite like stock…
Good ones are very, very, suitable for both road & race engines…
The downside is they come at a price.
Cast pistons have their place… But they’re not top shelf.

End rant

[tinkerbell]

Now if you use larger than STD cam, this includes Type R cams, you run the risk of the valves touching the pistons as the valve heads are larger than the fly cuts in the pistons.

OR if you are using stock b16a or b18c camshafts with adjustable cam gears!

[TODA AU]

OR if you are using stock b16a or b18c camshafts with adjustable cam gears!

Agreed... I missed that bit. Cheers

[Benson]

If you’re going to do it on a tight budget & never change the cams,
Get your Vtec head & take it to the head shop.
Have it overhauled & at the same time get the location dowel holes drilled on the other side + weld up the Vtec oil supply hole.
Just use an OEM B20 head gasket.
Then make yourself an oil feed line for the Vtec & plumb it into the back of the head.
You’ll need either an oil block adaptor or a t-piece under the oil pressure switch.
You can get the parts to do this from Enzed, Pirtek, Earls or Speedflow.
Fit your new water pump & B18C timing belt, Strap it together & you’re done.


I think using a vtec conversion kit like Golden Eagle is a simpler process then taking the head to a machine shop.

On the other side, yes i do agree if money permits, forged pistons is good to use. But for some reason with the B20's, those RS machine pistons seems like the way to go. Nearly all the yanks use them and make insane power for those cast pistons. Those piston measure up perfect :)

[tinkerbell]

I think using a vtec conversion kit like Golden Eagle is a simpler process then taking the head to a machine shop.

i have never built a B20vtec without overhauling the head and getting the mating surface machined...

[delsol9000rpms]

the way adrian explained the b20 is much much simpler then you think... and as tinkerbell said you would take the head to a machine shop anyway?

[delsol9000rpms]

I think using a vtec conversion kit like Golden Eagle is a simpler process then taking the head to a machine shop.

On the other side, yes i do agree if money permits, forged pistons is good to use. But for some reason with the B20's, those RS machine pistons seems like the way to go. Nearly all the yanks use them and make insane power for those cast pistons. Those piston measure up perfect :)

where not in america? dont you know those dynos are whackkk

[Benson]

Everyone has their different opinion when building motors. For a simple B20 build, why would you need to take the head to machine shop? If you know the history of the head and its in good working order then slap it on the bottom end. I have never had a problem when i do this. Our b16a has been through a few different heads, no need for machine shop.

delsol9000rpm, do you research mate before posting. These RS machine has been done here in Australia. There are a few motors floating around with these pistons in the b20 bottom end. They can easily make over 150kw with someone who knows how to build the head properly. Also with the right bolt-ons, like TRI-Y headers, tune and intake manifold combo these power goals can be achieve.

You dont need to spend big money on branded items especially when the market for honda products are so dear now due to the economical crisis. But if you are still think brand names are the best, use them and let us know the result.

All im sharing is my experiences with the RS machine pistons, as they are affortable and are good quality product for what they are.

In regards to the american dyno's, yes there dyno numbers are whack but if you know the correction percentage you can use something call the calculator and work out the australian figure. ET's talk, and the yanks do back up their 'wack' dyno's numbers with the 1/4 mile result. (Sign on @ honda-tech.com and check out the all motor section)

[delsol9000rpms]

sorry benson but i dont need to do any research because i know what im doin when putting a motor together but you wouldnt understand cause your a backyard wanna be mechanic lol... and i still haven't seen any of these b20s pushing over 150kw atw [easily] that your talking about other then the toda/mfactory civic. the RS pistons might do the job but everyone knows whats better.

[geeang]

sorry benson but i dont need to do any research because i know what im doin when putting a motor together but you wouldnt understand cause your a backyard wanna be mechanic lol... and i still haven't seen any of these b20s pushing over 150kw atw [easily] that your talking about other then the toda/mfactory civic. the RS pistons might do the job but everyone knows whats better.

Dude this thread is about BASIC B20 builds, making the affordable RS pistons the best suited pistons for this thread.
And I thought the toda/mfactory civic was just a B18 and not a B20.

[tinkerbell]

Dude this thread is about BASIC B20 builds, making the affordable RS pistons the best suited pistons for this thread.

not even that,

the PHK's are best suited for a "basic" B20VTEC build...


And I thought the toda/mfactory civic was just a B18 and not a B20.

exactly.

that is a "fully built" 2.0L block - not a B20B frankenstein...

[fatboyz39]

Dude this thread is about BASIC B20 builds, making the affordable RS pistons the best suited pistons for this thread.
And I thought the toda/mfactory civic was just a B18 and not a B20.

Well no one can afford such motor like Mfactory/toda. My guess of a exact setup would cost in the teens.

RS machine pistons would be my choice for a street/daily driven motor setup.

[tinkerbell]

Everyone has their different opinion when building motors. For a simple B20 build, why would you need to take the head to machine shop?

just for 100%ness in my opinion... (plus maybe to raise the CR!)

but if you actually know the full history and the head is true and straight, then the GE kit (or similar) is OK...

[delsol9000rpms]

And I thought the toda/mfactory civic was just a B18 and not a B20.


sorrry my badd i meant 2.0l.....

[Benson]

sorry benson but i dont need to do any research because i know what im doin when putting a motor together but you wouldnt understand cause your a backyard wanna be mechanic lol... and i still haven't seen any of these b20s pushing over 150kw atw [easily] that your talking about other then the toda/mfactory civic. the RS pistons might do the job but everyone knows whats better.

backyard wanabe mechanic? LOL i dont call myself a mechanic, i just do my research and put into good use. As you can see, the B16a in our EG is still running strong after 12 trips to the track. I wouldnt say we arnt knowledgable?

Roughly one year ago, Dave and the team built a B20vtec making 148kw. That was by no mean a serious set-up. A basic combo with 84mm RS machine pistons and a good head made that power. Im not going to disclose the entire combo because it cost money for that kind of information.

In regards to the Toda EG, that a fully built motor, sleeved with a capacity close to 2.0l (1.9l). I believe its running big cams, vtec killer cams? A average person couldnt afford such a motor.

Of course there are always better products on the market. It all about marketing the product. Like both Spoon, Mugen and Toda products there all over marketted product with a huge price tag over them. If you look around, there are products out there on the same level of performace for a fraction of the cost.

Im always open to using different products. Remember its the combo of parts which make power. Not always using the same brand can achieve this.

[replenished.soul]

replenished.soul, you using RS machine pistons on a B20 setup?

hey naa im not using rs psiton just normal pistons happy with normal pistons for the moment its powerful enough for me on streets as it is

[replenished.soul]

Im quite happy with my current "basic" setup.... If I was gonna do cams though, I wouldnt bother enlarging the valve reliefs. I would just install new high comp pistons and rings while I'm at it.

basic setup is heaps fun to drive aye zeforce heaps of torque as it is

[replenished.soul]

backyard wanabe mechanic? LOL i dont call myself a mechanic, i just do my research and put into good use. As you can see, the B16a in our EG is still running strong after 12 trips to the track. I wouldnt say we arnt knowledgable?

Roughly one year ago, Dave and the team built a B20vtec making 148kw. That was by no mean a serious set-up. A basic combo with 84mm RS machine pistons and a good head made that power. Im not going to disclose the entire combo because it cost money for that kind of information.

In regards to the Toda EG, that a fully built motor, sleeved with a capacity close to 2.0l (1.9l). I believe its running big cams, vtec killer cams? A average person couldnt afford such a motor.

Of course there are always better products on the market. It all about marketing the product. Like both Spoon, Mugen and Toda products there all over marketted product with a huge price tag over them. If you look around, there are products out there on the same level of performace for a fraction of the cost.

Im always open to using different products. Remember its the combo of parts which make power. Not always using the same brand can achieve this.

hey i rekon ur pretty good backyard mechanic for a uni boy haha makes scense benny you reckon i can make over 132kw and hit the 140+ considering my setup has all oem parts in it with just one lilltle upgrade?

[delsol9000rpms]

.......
backyard wanabe mechanic? LOL i dont call myself a mechanic, i just do my research and put into good use. As you can see, the B16a in our EG is still running strong after 12 trips to the track. I wouldnt say we arnt knowledgable?so who put together the motor?im glad its still in good shape good on you:thumbsup:

Roughly one year ago, Dave and the team built a B20vtec making 148kw. That was by no mean a serious set-up. A basic combo with 84mm RS machine pistons and a good head made that power. Im not going to disclose the entire combo because it cost money for that kind of information.got a dyno sheet available sounds interesting

In regards to the Toda EG, that a fully built motor, sleeved with a capacity close to 2.0l (1.9l). I believe its running big cams, vtec killer cams? A average person couldnt afford such a motor. when your talking motorsport its not neccessary to talk about $$$ coz at the end of the day if your passionate its never gonna be cheap...

Of course there are always better products on the market. It all about marketing the product. Like both Spoon, Mugen and Toda products there all over marketted product with a huge price tag over them. If you look around, there are products out there on the same level of performace for a fraction of the cost. usually the cheaper parts u talk about are exactly that... CHEAP! some products do work well for their prices but surely yu have to agree they cannot be compared with the higher class products

Im always open to using different products. Remember its the combo of parts which make power. Not always using the same brand can achieve thisusually the same brands work well together like u said its all about the combination of parts

[Benson]

Whats the point of a dyno sheet? it all relative numbers... The dyno is a tuning tool and dyno number to us means nothing. But if your really curious, ill get a dyno sheet just for you

Is doesnt mean if you can get a product for cheap it means it crap quality? or poor performance? I think most kids on ozhonda think that branded items are the best, but quite frankly there are heaps of product that arnt so well known are cheaper in price and on the same performance level.

I think you need to get out of the frame of mine that paying alot of money for a product is going to be always the best.

[delsol9000rpms]

Whats the point of a dyno sheet? it all relative numbers... The dyno is a tuning tool and dyno number to us means nothing. But if your really curious, ill get a dyno sheet just for you

Is doesnt mean if you can get a product for cheap it means it crap quality? or poor performance? I think most kids on ozhonda think that branded items are the best, but quite frankly there are heaps of product that arnt so well known are cheaper in price and on the same performance level.

I think you need to get out of the frame of mine that paying alot of money for a product is going to be always the best.

every single part ive got in my car is quality while still maintaining a budget.... just because big names might have been used doesnt mean ive thrown enormous amounts of money in my car... im still on a budget and i always have been so dnt try and refer to me as spending heaps of money on brand names.... if your refering to the rs machine pistons as at the 'same performance level' as say any well named forged piston... well ye they might make decent power... but ummm its not always about how much power it will make dnt forget quality of the part and longeveity of the product... im not saying theyre shit.. coz theyre not...and for someone on a 'budget' they wil be an exceptional choice... but they have their place and should not be compared with 'big' names as yout refer to... 'big names' are where they are at today because of theyre quality products

[ZeForce]

Whats the point of a dyno sheet? it all relative numbers... The dyno is a tuning tool and dyno number to us means nothing. But if your really curious, ill get a dyno sheet just for you

Is doesnt mean if you can get a product for cheap it means it crap quality? or poor performance? I think most kids on ozhonda think that branded items are the best, but quite frankly there are heaps of product that arnt so well known are cheaper in price and on the same performance level.

I think you need to get out of the frame of mine that paying alot of money for a product is going to be always the best.

I have to agree with Benson on a few of the points he made

delsol9000rpms you're obviously a toda fanboy and no point trying to convince you otherwise.... go ahead and spend twice as much on brand named parts to achieve the same end result :thumbsup:

[delsol9000rpms]

I have to agree with Benson on a few of the points he made

delsol9000rpms you're obviously a toda fanboy and no point trying to convince you otherwise.... go ahead and spend twice as much on brand named parts to achieve the same end result :thumbsup:

toda fanboy hah!... where hav i mentioned toda?? it seams rather that a few people on here despise toda? seem to go against anything and everything got to do with toda.. always comparing other products and prices... same end result? with double the price? ok mate whatever you say... where has prices been mentioned in this thread i dnt understand what would make some people think that brand names are automatically double the price... im sure some people would be surprised if they actually stop window shopping (Y)

[Benson]

We are not dissing Toda Products, as you got to remember these are a Japanese Brand. They are good for what they are, but i cant justify with the price tag with some of the product espeically with the Yen currency at the moment. For example no-one is going to spend 1.8-2k for Toda headers when they can get a set of Custom SSR or something for around that price.

Dont get me wrong, i myself have some Toda Cams and have use them and have seen some good result with them in different motors. These motor dont rock all Toda Products, they are a combo of other brand and products put together by people who have done there research to know what works and what doesnt.

We all know you are a Toda fanboy (look at your sig), and there is nothing wrong with that. But in the context of this thread, a basic B20 build may consist of an OEM rebuild or a rebuild with upgraded cast pistons like the RS machine. Yes forged pistons are strong, but do you really need something that extreme for a basic B20 build? If it going to be track a couples of times a year and street driven cast pistons are the way to go.
Tinkerbell might want to chip in, he has been running stock cast pistons for a couple of years now and has seen the track a number of times.

[delsol9000rpms]

ohk if your gonna refer to signatures... look at your signature "dave at insight motorspport" lmaooooo looks whos talking you act like your in love with the guy

adrian and some others have done me well and im happy with their work and i would like to refer them to others..

[tinkerbell]

Adrian from Toda tunes my car (and probably always will), he knows that my OEM B20 is strong - but we also know it will never make more than 125 atw unless i ditch the OEM pistons...

it is all a matter of budget.

RS Machines cast pistons on stock rods take you past the OEM B20B inhibitor (low CR), but fully forged 12.x:1 pistons would probably take you much further... but what else would you need to match to the forgies? lots more than you would need if using the RS cast pistons...

an engines performance is not determined by a single part, but a combination of them...

so, IMO - you are both wasting bandwidth talking about two different things (but at least benson has tried to keep it on topic)...

[delsol9000rpms]

lets stick to topic

[Benson]

Adrian from Toda tunes my car (and probably always will), he knows that my OEM B20 is strong - but we also know it will never make more than 125 atw unless i ditch the OEM pistons...

it is all a matter of budget.

RS Machines cast pistons on stock rods take you past the OEM B20B inhibitor (low CR), but fully forged 12.x:1 pistons would probably take you much further... but what else would you need to match to the forgies? lots more than you would need if using the RS cast pistons...

an engines performance is not determined by a single part, but a combination of them...

so, IMO - you are both wasting bandwidth talking about two different things (but at least benson has tried to keep it on topic)...

125kw? Are you sure?

The last B20 with a proper OEM rebuilt bottom end made 135kw. Thats running ITR cams and a Vti-R head. Im pretty sure it squeeze 140kw with a good set of headers and other bolt-ons. Replenishsoul might want to add to this.

[delsol9000rpms]

you just finshed saying to mee dynos are only a tuning tool... clearly the dyno you go on reads different to the dyno at any other shop including toda

[tinkerbell]

you just finshed saying to mee dynos are only a tuning tool... clearly the dyno you go on reads different to the dyno at any other shop including toda

lol,igfugingzactly...

benson - i give no fark for dyno racing, i determine my "power" by what the Power FC says is VMAX...

[Benson]

Do you guys want to speak in terms of 1/4 mile then?

Stock bottom end with ITR head ran a 13.4@103mph in an ITR chasis. Thats the potential of a stock rebuilt b20 bottom end

[tinkerbell]

in 2003, i ran a stock B20B4 (8.8:1) with std B16A head with ITR cams, ITR IM and ITR 4-1's and ran 13.7 @ 101.7mph with VAFC and Dyno Dave cam gear magic... in DA6 chassis... runner up FWD class at Drag Combat @ WSID.

i will take my current stock B20B8 bottom end to the drags soon, i promise!!!

(PS - i was talking abt VMAX on the circuit, not the drags)

[fatboyz39]

in 2003, i ran a stock B20B4 (8.8:1) with std B16A head with ITR cams, ITR IM and ITR 4-1's and ran 13.7 @ 101.7mph with VAFC and Dyno Dave cam gear magic... in DA6 chassis... runner up FWD class at Drag Combat @ WSID.

i will take my current stock B20B8 bottom end to the drags soon, i promise!!!

(PS - i was talking abt VMAX on the circuit, not the drags)

impressive!:thumbsup:

[_FeRiO_]

Indeed!

Was that full interior?

[tinkerbell]

no, it was drag spec @ Drag Combat - for money, so i even drained my windscreen wiper bottle :D

[ZeForce]

no, it was drag spec @ Drag Combat - for money, so i even drained my windscreen wiper bottle :D

Do you know what the race weight was including driver?