Worth getting a capicator?

[shakkas]

Hey everyone,

Finally got my new system in the car for a few weeks now, and starting to notice the lights are dimming.

been reading around and going to get an optima battery to replace the generic one that i have atm, but i was thinking does a cap really make much of a difference? its starting to bug me when i drive that the lights dim.

cheers for your input

[PLSSSE]

get the optima battery, itll get rid of that

[dsp26]

bigger battery won't really prevent it.

get a cap that matches your amp.

a cap is like a fuel or oil surge tank... it provides and releases maximum current from its storage reserve at all times especially for big bass beats.

sure a bigger battery is nice but it still won't provide the needed maximum peak current when required.

[trism]

no.

a cap WILL NOT help

all it does is puts more strain on teh electrical system

think about it. your poor little stock battery has to now run teh amplifiers AND recharge the cap. its just gonna make the prob worse

first thing to do, get a big battery. recomend an optima yellow top, or just about anything odyssey

then, upgrade your vehicles grounding. run a nice big fat length of 0guage cable from teh battery negative to the chassis

that will help the dimming

im not pulling this out of my arse, this is coming from real world experience. i had over 3kw rms in my last stereo that i competed in sound quality comps with, that i spent around 8k on

im not a noob when it comes to car audio

[tron07]

since your car is new, no point changing the alternator or battery.... so capacitor is the way to go. A 1farad with good ESR should do.

[trism]

did you not read my post before you added your own 2c?

[dsp26]

^^^lol 1min difference.

But what you say is feasible on yours and clearly benefits from a bigger or additional batteries... overall capacity becomes a neccesity. i think your car would actually stall on the next big doof lol.

I don't think his systems anywhere that big.


if it was me though and i had a semi-decent setup i would just upgrade to an extended ampere alternator... they go for like $150 on ebay usually with an additional 30-50amps over oem....

[shakkas]

yea i found a place selling optima yellow top bateries. quote was 340. thinking may get that and if it keeps dimming then go cap.

dude says optima has more than enough power to run accessories as well as the engine.

[trism]

The thing with optimas is that they are deep cycle.

Where if you run a normal battery flat too many times it dies and loses it's ability to hold a charge, the deep cycle will never do this. That's why they are popular in boats, planes and most hardcore 4wders use them

And when you compare it to a generic one you feel the differnece. It helps the whole car, it starts better, runs better. A upgrade alternator may be good but when it's charging a stuffed battery it's not helping anyone

Also it may seem cheap at 150 bucks but factor the cost of installation etc

[shakkas]

thanks for all t he help, really appreciate it

sounds like worth getting the battery, heard so much about optima but never thought it would make much of a difference

[tron07]

did you not read my post before you added your own 2c?

so??

While I am not a suppoter of using caps, dimming lights are usually because the alternator is not suppling enough juice, and I dont recomend changing the alternator for a brand new car. Same goes for the battery. If the car is already 2 or 3 years old, a yellow or red top is the way to go.

[trism]

if the alternator isnt supplying enough juice to stop the headlights dimming, how is it gonna be able to cope charging a capacitor up?? ;)

[tron07]

the lights only dimm when the heavy bass hits and when the amps need extra juice. So for the split second, the amps will drain the extra power from the caps, and thus the lights dont dimm. After the bass hits, there probably be a couple seconds or less where there is no heavy bass notes so the alternator will recharge back the cap up. Hence the reason to get a good ESR capacitor and not some fancy mancy smuck.

Once the caps is charged already, it will wait for the next heavy load.

Same goes for your car battery. If the alternator cannot supply enough juice, the battery would not be able to cope up either, as it will take longer time to charge and discharge compare to a capacitor.

[trism]

i know how a cap works ;)

but i still think its better to get a stronger battery then to add something else that needs electricity

[mr ©harisma]

Upgrading Earths can help as well. Generally a car doesn't come from the factory with the intention of running a 50-100A sound system.

[shakkas]

i know this is a stupid question, but wat is upgrading earths?

im assuming cables?

[dc4t]

i know this is a stupid question, but wat is upgrading earths?

im assuming cables?

talking bout running cables from ur negative battery terminal to ur chassis right? ground-wiring kit in other words

[arverson]

agree with everything trism's said.

a cap wont fix the problem, itll just mask it..

run thicker groundwires from battery to chasis, engine block to chasis, alternator to chasis & amp ground wire to chasis.

address the wiring system first, then the battery, then new alternator if needed.

[55EXX]

step 1 upgrade cabling guage and make sure amp and battery have great grounds
step 2 upgrade battery to a deep cycle like optima or odyssey
if still dimming alt or cap

caps are only bandaid solutions to the real problem of voltage drop from the electrical system not being able to supply enough current. upgrading cables and earths make sure that the system for you amp is working most efficently

batteries help with more current when you amp draws more than your alt can supply. deep cycles have a higher output and withstand better the hard conditions of being drained constantly. i have run my odyssey dead to the point it can't start my car over 20 times and it still is as strong as it ever was.

alt supply more current to the electrical system so the is more juice on tap which is always great

my 2c.

[mr ©harisma]

step 1 upgrade cabling guage and make sure amp and battery have great grounds
step 2 upgrade battery to a deep cycle like optima or odyssey
if still dimming alt or cap


Yeah I have followed that successfully for a few to many years now. :)

[mr ©harisma]

Think about how a circuit works dude.... A standard 16ga ish earthing battery strap at about a meter long just doesn't cut it.

Bigger alternator can always be a good thing but think about the Alternator as being an Engine and the Cables being the suspension of a race car. Sure it can produce more power to go faster, but without decent suspension ( or cables in this instance ) it is wasting so much potential.

[mr ©harisma]

Most decent earthing kits I have seen run the earth from the alternator and a few runs from the engine and chassis back to a main distributer. Then a single cable runs back to the Neg terminal using thicker wires than from factory. Isn't that what you just said will improve the grounding process?

the systems are grounding through the altenator.

Bigger cables always helps.

simply running them to the engine block or chassis would be a much BETTER and EFFICIENT circuit ground wise.

Thats what the earthing kit is doing??

[mr ©harisma]

Obviously your not a fan of Earthing kits?

[55EXX]

claymore i have upgraded earths and cabling in my many car stereo installs over the years to find them essential as part of a efficient install. in my car at the moment i have stock alt and over 600 wrms easy smashing through my 3 way dyns up front to the beat of bass guitars and kick drums with violent power through my 12 inch in the boot with 100w highlights with no dimming now. all i have is big cables and a odyssey batt. 0ga is what i thank. how do you explain it?

[AzKik-R]

the upgraded earthing cables make a huge difference!!!!!
But if you're gonna do the job right, then do it right
Earthing... Battery... and then consider Cap and/or alternator,

simply because, if the bigger earthing cable does fix your problem, then you've just saved yourself a couple hundred $$$ and if it doesn't fix the problem.. then it's a healthy upgrade with no adverse side-effects, and once you drop in a yellow top then the upgraded earth will be worth the upgrade.
if you still need more power... then the cap/alternator will fix the problem... if it doesn't lol then you're running a lot of juice, get a truck setup

[55EXX]

so why don't my lights dim? there have been many examples of old wiring having a voltage drop from chassis to neg terminal. there was a write up on here and other sites i've seen. i understand the physics you are saying but explain to me why if the resistances were the same why my lights dont dim?

i still stand by upgrading the earths and cables and battery man. my odyssey in size is smaller than my old batt but has over 900 cranking amps that in conjuction with big cables is what it is. but what do you say it is claymore? stock alt thats 16 yo?

[shakkas]

thanks for the input guys, feel like i started a mini war here =P

im takin it back to the installer and he reckons to upgrade the cables. ill look into it more tomorrow when im gettin it installed

[55EXX]

im takin it back to the installer and he reckons to upgrade the cables

sounds like he knows what he is saying as he works with them everyday of his life.

[shakkas]

just came back, the installer upgraded the cabling from the battery to the grounds or something along those lines

absolutely no dimming now, even when full cranking it and a/c goin =) so happy now.

appreciate everyones feedback, most helpful

[mr ©harisma]

just came back, the installer upgraded the cabling from the battery to the grounds or something along those lines

absolutely no dimming now, even when full cranking it and a/c goin =) so happy now.

appreciate everyones feedback, most helpful


Now isn't that interesting. Same thing happened with my car funnily enough.

Glad to see it's sorted. :)

[55EXX]

wow that blows simple in your face physics out of the water. good to hear shakkas enjoy your stereo man.

[arverson]

i wonder where claymore is..

shakkas, glad you took care of the wiring system first before wasting money on a cap :)

[shakkas]

absolutely love my system now!

money well spent =P

[Zilli]

what a ****wit...

[55EXX]

i can tell you man. he upraded the amps connection to the electrical source via better cables and grounds. its a very very simple thing that has been done sucessfully for years and years. it is considered common knowledge in car audio circles.

[Zilli]

agreed... i remember i had the same issue in my N13 back in the day... over-engineered, good cabling is a good investment, and one you can take with you to your next car...

[tron07]

without seeing the system, I would have assume that all the cables are up to specs... somemore it was "professionally" installed

[mr ©harisma]

Yeah I love a good earthing kit.

I did have to laugh at the bit on cables to a house. Of course a house does not need as big cable to run. Hell my whole house runs off an 80A fuse - the same size as JUST my music system in the car.

P = VI

You should remember that. ;)

[mr ©harisma]

Ha idiot. I'm sure I can read and my house is quite old and is not that big... Not a perfect world now is it.

[Zilli]

LOL

There goes Martha Stewart with her household tips...

LOL

idiot... the OP fixed his problem by changing to a bigger ground... you are a moron, and the lessons you tried to teach us little "boys" was wrong...

you are WRONG

LOL

Close thread

:-)

Remember to refer to the thread about me that makes you laugh :-) the one in the few posts above :-) will keep you from pissing your pants in anger :-)

[mr ©harisma]

Nobody cares what your house runs the point is still valid. There is absolutely no reason to have bigger ground cables than the power cable that is supplying the unit period.

lol no one was even talking about that. Look I would love to write 100 pages of crap with the trademark CAPITALS just to be proven wrong, however I don't see writing invaild posts on the internet as a good use of my time.... oops I just did :p

The world is lucky you have your own business in car audio, or do you??

[mr ©harisma]

*Yawn*, sorry I forgot the capitals *YAWN*. Where did you get magical power from? I think your tripping.

I'm just glad that he didn't listen to you and waste his money because that is what he would have done. You are like a French chef who thinks he can master Chiness because it all FOOD ( I like capitals ).

[55EXX]

You are like a French chef who thinks he can master Chiness because it all FOOD

Migoreng FTW

upgraded cables fixed it end of story. reasons unclear like many things in life and science. either way even tho it can't be explained, and there are many things that can't be, the dimming has stopped.

I'm sure to have one of those awesome white packets in the pantry somewhere i'm going to go hit me up some.

[krogoth]

ill have to agree with claymore on this

upgrading earthing wires shouldnt in theory stop your dimming issue

even though it appears to be the case this time....but yeh..

as mentioned previously, the current produced by all car electronics, upgraded or stock shouldnt really require a large earthing wire as the earthing current they will produce should be quite small...

anyway, im just speaking from bare bones physics, not really experience

when my mate and I did his sound system, which was pretty basic, we didnt play with any earthing kits, just used the earthing wire that came with the amp, made sure that was earthed properly in the best possible place and evrything worked fine with little or no dimming under load

but yeh......im just talking from limited experience and just using logic, there could be other reasons for the dimming....

[krogoth]

but ill have to agree with 55ex too

ill try the earthing upgrade trick first too if i have this problem in the future

cheap to try and if it fixes it why not.....

[rahul]

imo its a case of equalling what's going out to what's coming in.

i run a 0ga power wire and a 0ga earth to the chassis. however the earth wire connecting the battery to the chassis is most definitely not 0ga. so its simple logic you equal that to be 0ga as well. so this is done by simply having an extra earth to the battery to equal the total size of the cable going out or you can go for overkill and have multiple earth points in the engine bay connecting back to the battery.

[EGJOE]

Upgrading your power cables and ground to your headunit can help (if your talking about headunit dimming at loud volumes). Think about your headunit, how much power it producers compared to your stock deck.........

[trism]

anyway, im just speaking from bare bones physics, not really experience

/QUOTE]

This is claymores downfall. speaking from physics not experience. if it didnt work, people wouldnt do it, but somehow it defys belief, and fixes the problem.

[QUOTE=krogoth;2154539]but ill have to agree with 55ex too

ill try the earthing upgrade trick first too if i have this problem in the future

cheap to try and if it fixes it why not.....


exactly. do it an youll be surprised


imo its a case of equalling what's going out to what's coming in.

i run a 0ga power wire and a 0ga earth to the chassis. however the earth wire connecting the battery to the chassis is most definitely not 0ga. so its simple logic you equal that to be 0ga as well. so this is done by simply having an extra earth to the battery to equal the total size of the cable going out or you can go for overkill and have multiple earth points in the engine bay connecting back to the battery.

correct.