Semi automatic/performance question(euro)

[Faiz]

Hello all, i have an automatic accord euro. Most of you probably know. I know how to do drive the car on automatic. I was wondering how do i drive with the triptronic semi auto where you change your gears yourself. I fiddle around wth it every time i go on a drive but i cant seem to get the hang of when to change the gears. As soon as i change a gear down, the car engine pulls the car back. I have no idea how to work it with the semi auto. Can someone please explain me how to work it. Ad my last question would be, ive heard from you guys the engine in the accord euro gets faster the more you drive. I havent noticed in change except the engine feels looser when i first got it. What kind of change are we talking about here in terms of 0-100 acceleration from stop?

thanks in advance

Genesis

[Faiz]

any help guys, atleast tell me how to use the semi auto.

[Psyklops]

when you say the engine pulls the car back, is this happening off throttle? If so, that will happen in a manual too...balance the acc/deceleration with the loud pedal when in a lower gear when pulling more revs..at the correct/appropriate position, the throttle will maintain the speed at which you want the car to go...then push the bugger down to drive out of a corner...is this what you are refering to?

[Faiz]

yes, sort of. I dont know when to change gears up. all i know is when needle is all the red area near the 8 rpm? And i dont know how to change gears when turning corners and slowing down. There is obvioly no clutch here so all i need to know when to shift up and down. When i change the hear 3 to 2 when i am eg on 80km/hour and want to slow down to 40. When i change the gear to 2 the car will pull back on me automaticly without pushing the brakes. And when i am stopping at a light or something. I dont know when to shift gears down.

[viperx]

Sorry to say, but in most cases of semi-automatic it actually is faster to leave it in 'drive' than to fiddle with it. This is because a well designed gear change program will change at the right times anyway. This holds true in most cars up to ZF boxes in mercedes and jaguars.

[Faiz]

didnt quite understand you viper mate. I thought the semi auto shifter would be faster. 5 speed manual mazda does0-100 in 8 seconds. The euros 5 speed semi automatic should be around the same mark if gears were changed manually on it.Still dont know how to use it though.

[Chris_F]

gears still take longer to change in semi-automatic mode than they do in a "real" manual transmission so it would probably make a marginal difference. don't forget the car is significantly heavier than the mazda and the autobox is less efficient in transferring power to the wheels (even if the euro is more powerful). I agree with viper on the most part that it's better to leave it in drive but i have noticed that autos take way too long sometimes to downshift... maybe downshift using semi-auto mode then once you've got the engine turning over a bit harder flick it back over to auto-mode. good excuse to do a few 0-100 tests while your experimenting with the semi-auto mode me thinks :D

[viperx]

Mate the semi-automatic is slower because its mechanism is still an auto... read up about the mechanical differences between auto and manual- automatic transmissions are slower by nature. Autos aren't called 'slushboxes' for nothing. Even if you shifted at exactly the same rpms between with an auto and a real manual box you will always go faster in the manual.

Like I said, most gearchange programs are already optimised. You cannot make the car go faster from 0-100km/h by manual changing; if anything you will make the car go slower. The only exception is if you are going for rolling acceleration (eg. 80-120km/h); here it may make a difference.

Additionally most automatic boxes are heavier than the manual equivalent. More weight = less acceleration

[EuroSip]

pulling it down lowers the gear and pushing it forward takes it up a gear

if you have a long way to stop you could slowly lower your gear and the car will slowly decelerate. that way it'll save your brakes and you'll get to know the feel of the car.

Furthermore, if you start from first gear, you could push the car up to higher revs until you change to a higher gear

You should normally be able to lower from 2nd to 1st when the cars at around 55km/hr...

[coladuna]

I don't really get what Faiz is trying to ask here? What's there to know about shifting semi-automatic transmission? You just shift up and down depending on what you want to do. I assume that you are talking about engine braking when you say that the car pulls back even without stepping on the brake.

[viperx]

No think he's just under the impression that a 'semi-automatic' is the same thing as a 'clutchless manual (ie. BMW SMG)'; common mistake.

[baboo]

Faiz,

To drive fast in a straight line is to leave it in "D" and let the auto do the work. Like Viperx said the gear change program is optimized so doing it manually would not be quicker.

Tiptronic is good for up and down the mountain roads where there's alot of corners and
engine brake for going downhills.

When you cornering fast, you'll need to stay in the same gear (eg. 2nd gear) from entering to exiting the corner without upsetting the balance of the car. Sudden kickdown during cornering could be dangerous.
It's always good to use a bit of engine brake downhill to help slow down the car.

[Faiz]

ok thanks for the advice guys. I was in the impression that if i drive the car manually in the semi auto (presumed it changes gears same as manual without clutch and make the car faster as the manual version) but i was wrong. But i do have one question unanswered, when i keep asking this, i dont get a clear answer about the accord euros engine getting waster with the more you drive. Is there somewhere i can read about this? I would like to know is i drove the euro heaps like 20 000 kms. will its acceleration and engine performance improve. But how much in terms of 0-100 accleration from rest. I would like to read about this if any one can present me with a link. Some one also mentioned that the honda engine gains a few more kws after you drive a bit. the car is 140 kw isnt it? I dont understand this though, how it happens.

Any way euro isnt all that slow. It s auto beats the toyota camry auto, the citrion c5, mazda 6 and a few other v6 cars.

[sugapopcandy]

Look your car won't go any faster than what it already is, even the engine eased up after adding a few 10,000kms it's not going to be any faster than what it is now.

If you want to find the answer go have a read through your other thread you started, and the Euro is not all about 0 - 100 times, so get over the fact it's gonna be a pocket rocket.

[yfin]

ok thanks for the advice guys. I was in the impression that if i drive the car manually in the semi auto (presumed it changes gears same as manual without clutch and make the car faster as the manual version) but i was wrong. But i do have one question unanswered, when i keep asking this, i dont get a clear answer about the accord euros engine getting waster with the more you drive. Is there somewhere i can read about this? I would like to know is i drove the euro heaps like 20 000 kms. will its acceleration and engine performance improve. But how much in terms of 0-100 accleration from rest. I would like to read about this if any one can present me with a link. Some one also mentioned that the honda engine gains a few more kws after you drive a bit. the car is 140 kw isnt it? I dont understand this though, how it happens.

Any way euro isnt all that slow. It s auto beats the toyota camry auto, the citrion c5, mazda 6 and a few other v6 cars.

Yeah the car is faster with more kms on the clock. I don't think anyone can quantify precisely the difference unless they dynoed the car when new. In the case of my car - it "feels" about 1 second faster to 100k/ph now (with 14,000kms) than when the car had 2000kms on the odo.

[yfin]

Look your car won't go any faster than what it already is, even the engine eased up after adding a few 10,000kms it's not going to be any faster than what it is now.

What experiences are you basing this statement on? Do you have experience as an owner of a Euro? If Faiz's car has low kms it will go faster than what it is now when it reaches more than 10,000kms. Mine is still freeing up with 14,000kms on the odo.

[sugapopcandy]

What experiences are you basing this statement on? Do you have experience as an owner of a Euro? If Faiz's car has low kms it will go faster than what it is now when it reaches more than 10,000kms. Mine is still freeing up with 14,000kms on the odo.
If you refer to his other thread, he's expecting a major leap in performance and keeps reiterating questions which have been answered in previous threads and in an automatic transmission IMO the results will almost likely to be slight.

Why does it have to be a Euro and not any other new car to have experiences in new engines being run in and freeing up?
That's like saying a mechanic needs to have worked specifically on a Euro before they know how to diagnose common problems.

[yfin]

If you refer to his other thread, he's expecting a major leap in performance and keeps reiterating questions which have been answered in previous threads and in an automatic transmission IMO the results will almost likely to be slight.

Why does it have to be a Euro and not any other new car to have experiences in new engines being run in and freeing up?
That's like saying a mechanic needs to have worked specifically on a Euro before they know how to diagnose common problems.

Fair enough - agree he is unlikely to see a major leap in performance. With my car I have not seen a major leap either - a noticeable leap, yes - but not a major one.

The freeing up time of the Euro does seem particularly long. I am also surprised how different the engine feels on a hot day and a cold day. In Melbourne one day this week is was 32 degrees - my engine was REALLY slow to rev compared to the crisp and cold Melbourne mornings I am used to.... .Hmmm - did I hear someone say cold air intake??

[coladuna]

Some one also mentioned that the honda engine gains a few more kws after you drive a bit. the car is 140 kw isnt it? I dont understand this though, how it happens.

If anyone misled you to think that it's a unique characteristic of Honda engines, that person is a big idiot. Any engine, and I mean ANY, will loosen up as you clock up some km.

[sugapopcandy]

My car had that problem in Syd too, mind you it's no Euro but my DC5 have rev cuts in the summer heat of 37 degrees :( but I guess that's expected.

[jenova]

If anyone misled you to think that it's a unique characteristic of Honda engines, that person is a big idiot. Any engine, and I mean ANY, will loosen up as you clock up some km.

I am not sure if this is true as it was shown on best motoring video.
Amuse dyno brand new s2000 and found it only puts out 220hp. And the reported said " in order to achieve 250hp, the car has to travel at least 10000km "

so u dont actually gain power, just that the full potential of the engine is not release when new.

[coladuna]

I am not sure if this is true as it was shown on best motoring video.
Amuse dyno brand new s2000 and found it only puts out 220hp. And the reported said " in order to achieve 250hp, the car has to travel at least 10000km "

so u dont actually gain power, just that the full potential of the engine is not release when new.

What do you mean you are not sure if this is true? Are you saying then that Honda engines are different to other brands when it comes to breaking in the engine? I just don't get how that s2000 story is relevant to all this.

[viperx]

Faiz, a car 'puts out more power' as you put it, after a few more kms because most cars we drive on the road are factory mass-produced. when things a factory produced they don't fit together quite right. Hence there is the advice to 'run-in' your car- that is to basically run your car at all RPMs so as to 'mold' the moving parts together. When they do, you expect a small gain in performance compared to when this process has not occurred. You do not really get a performance 'gain'; you are really gaining performance you didn't have before. ie. you probably only had 110kw at the flywheel before, you now may make it to 140kw.

Now to tell you the truth the flywheel kw figures are just an estimate of what your car may have, or an average of all the cars that leave an assembly line, after they have had their engine 'run-in'. There is a difference between each individual mass-produced car because of the nature of mass-production- there are inconsistencies with the production of each part. When the different parts are put together, the ones which just so happened to have better quality control will be more powerful. Those not as well produced suffer power and economy loss. Quality control reduces this variation. This is the rationale between 'blueprinting' engines.

[jenova]

What do you mean you are not sure if this is true? Are you saying then that Honda engines are different to other brands when it comes to breaking in the engine? I just don't get how that s2000 story is relevant to all this.

Well, it is quoted from a tv program without much technical explaination, it is up to the viewers to choose to believe.

Why is it not relevant? They are both honda vtec engine.

[Faiz]

the euros an i vtec correct me if i am wrong jenova. I think it was the first honda to successfully work with the variable valve lift?????? not too sure.

[coladuna]

Well, it is quoted from a tv program without much technical explaination, it is up to the viewers to choose to believe.

Why is it not relevant? They are both honda vtec engine.

I'm saying it's not relevant because any other engine besides Honda engines need break-in as well. It's not like that video showed two different engines where one didn't get any performance gain while the Honda did.

[jenova]

I'm saying it's not relevant because any other engine besides Honda engines need break-in as well. It's not like that video showed two different engines where one didn't get any performance gain while the Honda did.

agree with that, every engine need a break in period.
i was just using that s2000 as an example to show that new engine does not have it's full potential.

yeap, it is "I"vtec. :D

[coladuna]

you probably only had 110kw at the flywheel before, you now may make it to 140kw.


Don't use such an extreme example. He might take your example literally.
I'd be doubtful if you gain that much power just from your engine loosening up. Even if you spend lots of money on mods, it's not easy to make extra 30kW.

[viperx]

yes that was an uneducated guess :)

[Catcha]

Faiz,

Trade your Euro in and get a WRX cause obviously you don't appriciate why the Euro was built for, the Euro can't give what you want.. you want more power, putting an aftermarket turbo kit will only make it so fast. doing cams and stuff with only get so many kw's.

Trust me get yourself a WRX and you won't regret it. You and Neon another guy just like you can ask each other questions. www.rexnet.com.au

[aaronng]

Or return the car to your dad and use what he's driving at the moment. hehe