Honda Euro Final Drive

[Adrian Euro]

Hi. Will a Euro R final drive fit into a Honda Euro 2003 Model?

Also is their any guarantee of more power with a final drive? Or does it only give quicker acceleration through the gears?

If it does give quicker acceleration does that just mean that side by side with a stock euro it will get to the 1/4 mile quicker.

[aaronng]

You don't get more power. Because your top speed in each gear is reduced. But you do get better acceleration. So it will help with your 1/4 mile, especially if you already find yourself shifting into 4th gear at the end.

No guarantee that it fits though.

[INVSBL]

final drive, as in the diff gears, i dont know if it will fit, but it wont give u any more power, just depending on the ratio it will either accel faster and reduce top speed or acell slower and increase top speed.

and if its a shorter final ull get a faster 1/4.

[secksy]

Why do you want a final drive?

[Adrian Euro]

Why do you want a final drive?

I want my car to take off a bit faster or have more power.

[secksy]

Buy a turbo

[Adrian Euro]

Buy a turbo

Wouldn't that cost alot more that a final drive?

[INVSBL]

u r talking bout the dif gear yes??
coz when u say final drive thats wat i think of,

there are alot better engine based mods u should go for b4 swaping dif gears. changing that to a shorter one, will hinder every other aspect part from accel, unlike intake and zaust will give u more power(more accel) and most times better fuel economy, while sounding better at the same time.

and changing gears will neva give u more power, the only way power will increase on a dyno is coz uv cheated the dyno into thinkin u hav the dif gears which will then give u wrong power and tourque ratings

[Adrian Euro]

u r talking bout the dif gear yes??
coz when u say final drive thats wat i think of,

there are alot better engine based mods u should go for b4 swaping dif gears. changing that to a shorter one, will hinder every other aspect part from accel, unlike intake and zaust will give u more power(more accel) and most times better fuel economy, while sounding better at the same time.

and changing gears will neva give u more power, the only way power will increase on a dyno is coz uv cheated the dyno into thinkin u hav the dif gears which will then give u wrong power and tourque ratings

But if you have already done the zaust, hi flo cat, headers and intake. Your saying that the final drive dif will show power and torque gains on dyno?

[INVSBL]

if the dyno doesn't know wat the gears are, then it cant accurately give a representation of wheel kw, u will get a gain or lose depending on if the ratio is shorter or higher, but techniquelly, its not there.

[Adrian Euro]

if the dyno doesn't know wat the gears are, then it cant accurately give a representation of wheel kw, u will get a gain or lose depending on if the ratio is shorter or higher, but techniquelly, its not there.

So if your going side by side with another euro that has exactly the same modifications as yours interms of zaust, CAI, hi Flow Cat, headers. But one car has afinal drive and the other doesn't would you agree that the car with the final drive would reach point B quicker than the car without the final drive?

[INVSBL]

they both hav a final drive, its the diff gears, but i get that u mean.
and depending on the ratio it will be faster, to a certain extent. but im not 100% on that part of gearing ect.

[Adrian Euro]

they both hav a final drive, its the diff gears, but i get that u mean.
and depending on the ratio it will be faster, to a certain extent. but im not 100% on that part of gearing ect.

Maybe we should clarify something " Final Drive" What is your interpretation when people say that they will sell you a final drive?

[INVSBL]

final drive to me is the gears in the differential, what takes the power from the gearbox and diverts it to the wheels, it has a ratio, and im gueesing the ratio in the euro R is shorter then in the aus.

[Accord Basic]

I think the you need the drive shaft and the gear ring. as they are different ratio. it need to be matached.

[Suntzu]

Most retarded thread ever. Nuff Said.

[aaronng]

if the dyno doesn't know wat the gears are, then it cant accurately give a representation of wheel kw, u will get a gain or lose depending on if the ratio is shorter or higher, but techniquelly, its not there.

The dyno doesn't need to know. In shootout mode, it uses the road speed vs torque at the wheels to calculate power at the wheels. Don't need to input gear ratios.

[free2d]

as long is K20 manual transmission, final drive can fit

[Adrian Euro]

as long is K20 manual transmission, final drive can fit

How do you know if your car has a K20 transmission?

[integral90]

Adrian the final drive is the final gear in your gearbox. It changes the overall speed of the final output speed of a gear (the final drive). If the ratio is higher, like the EuroR's 4.75 to the CL9's 4.38 (I think that's what Aaron said it was) then it takes approximately another .4 revolutions of the engine to make 1 revolution of the driveshaft, thus the engine needs to spin more to get the wheels to move the same speed, giving you a lower top speed in each gear.

The reason you want a shorter final drive is so the car can throw itself through each gear quicker because the gear isn't as long. But usually the shorter final drive is used in the Type R's where they're tuned for high rpm and they don't want to fall out of peak power after a shift. The K24A makes it's max torque at 4500rpm, and after a redline shift from 1st into 2nd you fall basically (I do) right back to 4500rpm. The CL9 box is pretty well suited to the power curve of the engine and I don't think the EuroR final drive would give you much benefit at all.

[Crapdaz]

final drive is a waste to change IMO unless you are going to track your car or quarter mile which then results in different final drive selection.
so unless your car is a daily track monster then don't bother wasting your money my 2c

[Adrian Euro]

final drive is a waste to change IMO unless you are going to track your car or quarter mile which then results in different final drive selection.
so unless your car is a daily track monster then don't bother wasting your money my 2c

Would you also have the same thoughts if all you wanted to do was take off the lights quickly and get to say the speed limit as quick as possible?

[aaronng]

Would you also have the same thoughts if all you wanted to do was take off the lights quickly and get to say the speed limit as quick as possible?

Using your example to get to a 60km/h limit, the stock 4.388 final drive will be quicker because you can reach close to 60km/h using just 1st gear. With a shorter final drive, you have to shift into 2nd. Same if you were going up to 100km/h, you can just barely get there in 2nd gear with the 4.388 but you would need 3rd gear with a shorter final drive.

[Adrian Euro]

Using your example to get to a 60km/h limit, the stock 4.388 final drive will be quicker because you can reach close to 60km/h using just 1st gear. With a shorter final drive, you have to shift into 2nd. Same if you were going up to 100km/h, you can just barely get there in 2nd gear with the 4.388 but you would need 3rd gear with a shorter final drive.

Then to me final drive sounds that its not really that great unless you want the for higher speeds?

[aaronng]

Then to me final drive sounds that its not really that great unless you want the for higher speeds?
It is better for 1/4 mile or track where you can hit over 150kmh. No much point for street. A lightweight flywheel is more worth it. But since you have everything taken apart, you can always try the final drive and report back to us if you like it or not. :p

[Crapdaz]

Would you also have the same thoughts if all you wanted to do was take off the lights quickly and get to say the speed limit as quick as possible?


Using your example to get to a 60km/h limit, the stock 4.388 final drive will be quicker because you can reach close to 60km/h using just 1st gear. With a shorter final drive, you have to shift into 2nd. Same if you were going up to 100km/h, you can just barely get there in 2nd gear with the 4.388 but you would need 3rd gear with a shorter final drive.


Then to me final drive sounds that its not really that great unless you want the for higher speeds?


It is better for 1/4 mile or track where you can hit over 150kmh. No much point for street. A lightweight flywheel is more worth it. But since you have everything taken apart, you can always try the final drive and report back to us if you like it or not. :p

I have to agree with Aaron, the final drive as i mentioned is better with drag racing style driving where the final drive shortens the gear ratios quite a bit as in the application of dragging you are trying to get as much power/speed out as possible in little time.

On street how often are you trying to reach high speeds, by improving your driving/shifting skills you get better gains, then just a final drive.

[Adrian Euro]

I have to agree with Aaron, the final drive as i mentioned is better with drag racing style driving where the final drive shortens the gear ratios quite a bit as in the application of dragging you are trying to get as much power/speed out as possible in little time.

On street how often are you trying to reach high speeds, by improving your driving/shifting skills you get better gains, then just a final drive.

Correct me if i am wrong. The aim of drag racing is to get from point A to Point B in as fast time as possible. So would this not be the same as trying to get from 0 to 80km/h in as fast a time as possible?

Only difference being one is measured in KM and another in KM/h.

I agree with aaron with he concept of the shorter causing the extra shift. Alot of people are going to flame me about this question. But a formula one car has short ratios right? and they are significantly quicker off the line that a V8 super car right?

[integral90]

Then to me final drive sounds that its not really that great unless you want the for higher speeds?

The only thing changing a final drive does is increase or reduce the top speed of each gear. That's all it does, apply it to each scenario from there :wave:

[ndeuro_]

lol well how about you go buy one, try to install it and tell us if it fits and if theres any power gain. no point of you sitting here trying to get answers from people who dont even have it. i agree with suntzu

[felixd]

why install this anyway its a waste of time i think ? theres nothing wrong with our final drive.

[aaronng]

Correct me if i am wrong. The aim of drag racing is to get from point A to Point B in as fast time as possible. So would this not be the same as trying to get from 0 to 80km/h in as fast a time as possible?

Only difference being one is measured in KM and another in KM/h.

No, both are different. One is trying to cover the distance in a certain time, while the other is the derivative of the distance with respect to time. Both are not zero order (straight line graph), so they are not the same. You're saying that if you drew a graph of distance over time and you measured the slope, you would get km/h. But that is not true because the graph won't be a straight line. It will be a curve. So the slope is different at different points in time.

[aaronng]

I agree with aaron with he concept of the shorter causing the extra shift. Alot of people are going to flame me about this question. But a formula one car has short ratios right? and they are significantly quicker off the line that a V8 super car right?
F1 cars have shorter ratios, but they rev to 19000rpm, so even if the gear ratio was say 9.00:1 vs the 4.50:1 of the V8 supercar, they would reach the same speed at redline in the gear of same ratio because the F1 car's engine revs twice as high. F1 cars are also much lighter.

[free2d]

How do you know if your car has a K20 transmission?

If your is CL7 2000cc engine is K20, CL9 2400cc engine is K24.

[free2d]

The only thing changing a final drive does is increase or reduce the top speed of each gear. That's all it does, apply it to each scenario from there :wave:

Top speed will reduce only about 20km/h in theory if change to 5.1. But u probably will run out of straight road anyway before you can reach 240km/h.

[Suntzu]

Most retarded thread ever. Nuff Said.

Let me clarify my earlier statement. This thread starts out like:

I need a final drive.
Whats a final drive.
get a turbo.
Final Drive has more DinO PowA
No it doesnt.
Total confusion over basic concept = Tardness

Now I think a final drive has merit. I would only do it if I could retain the overall ratios for 5th and 6th for crusing. That would mean higher 5/6

4000rpm in 6th at 110kph is not good for anyone or the car unless is a dedicated track car. That being said there are some at acurazine with it.

But a lower 1/2/3 gear would kick arse.

Makes me think about LSD, but then again a mazda 3sp and a Astra VXR and Focus XR6 dont have LSD and drive fine with a lot of torque so dunno about the euro..

[aaronng]

Makes me think about LSD, but then again a mazda 3sp and a Astra VXR and Focus XR6 dont have LSD and drive fine with a lot of torque so dunno about the euro..
LSD avoids spinning the inner wheel when using heavy throttle in corners. The effect on straight line traction is not that beneficial because both tyres usually have almost equal traction.

The Mazda 3 MPS has an LSD too.

[ndeuro_]

didnt one euro member on here got his diff broken?

[secksy]

Most retarded thread ever. Nuff Said.

Why did you look at it again?


Let me clarify my earlier statement. This thread starts out like:

I need a final drive.
Whats a final drive.
get a turbo.
Final Drive has more DinO PowA
No it doesnt.
Total confusion over basic concept = Tardness

Now I think a final drive has merit. I would only do it if I could retain the overall ratios for 5th and 6th for crusing. That would mean higher 5/6

4000rpm in 6th at 110kph is not good for anyone or the car unless is a dedicated track car. That being said there are some at acurazine with it.

But a lower 1/2/3 gear would kick arse.

Makes me think about LSD, but then again a mazda 3sp and a Astra VXR and Focus XR6 dont have LSD and drive fine with a lot of torque so dunno about the euro..


lol well how about you go buy one, try to install it and tell us if it fits and if theres any power gain. no point of you sitting here trying to get answers from people who dont even have it. i agree with suntzu

Hi Suntzu! Total confusion over basic concept = Tardness You are so right! However you left out part of the equation :(

It's more like:

Total confusion over basic concept = Tardness = Suntzu

You do seem to be totally confused about the basic concept of a forum! I believe how a forum basically works is like this:

1. Someone doesnt know something BUT would like to find some information
2. After realising there isn't easy access to a book on absolutely everything you want (please note self-help books do exist, perhaps visit your local library) you have to find other alternatives
3. This is where the crazy concept of a forum comes in handy. So the person who is looking for information comes here to make a post.
4. After a post is made people who may have some information about the topic respond. Those who don't or aren't interested i.e. you, keep their mouths shut because you know very well you DONT know everything and you use the forum for the same purpose. So unless you want people to be rude to you just like you were so lamely rude to Adrian Euro you really should think about what you say!

Also, can I just add that you clearly aren't in any state to make any comment about a confusing thread considering you firstly say the thread is lame and then make a pathetic attempt to offer your very unwanted opinion. A final drive may have merit but you certainly do not!

ndeuro, much of this comment can be applied to what you said as well :)

[ndeuro_]

lol seriously just look at what you just said. from comments so far from other members. its clearly stated that no one had changed their final drive in the euro. there for knowledge does not equal to experience. no point asking people for things you can easily google up. its just a lazy way out. theres clearly at least 3 or 4 people have explained on the first page that what would happen if you change your final drive. and speaking on my own behalf and not anyone else, i think its stupid for you to post something like that in Adrian_Euro's thread. i dont see any useful comment. as for myself. im only doing it in reply to what u have said above.

ps i believe that what i wrote is not considered as "rude"

[aaronng]

I'm not naming names, but get back on topic or this thread will be closed. Doesn't matter if someone is trying to do something silly, it is a final drive discussion thread after all.

[Suntzu]

Why did you look at it again?





Hi Suntzu! Total confusion over basic concept = Tardness You are so right! However you left out part of the equation :(

It's more like:

Total confusion over basic concept = Tardness = Suntzu

You do seem to be totally confused about the basic concept of a forum! I believe how a forum basically works is like this:

1. Someone doesnt know something BUT would like to find some information
2. After realising there isn't easy access to a book on absolutely everything you want (please note self-help books do exist, perhaps visit your local library) you have to find other alternatives
3. This is where the crazy concept of a forum comes in handy. So the person who is looking for information comes here to make a post.
4. After a post is made people who may have some information about the topic respond. Those who don't or aren't interested i.e. you, keep their mouths shut because you know very well you DONT know everything and you use the forum for the same purpose. So unless you want people to be rude to you just like you were so lamely rude to Adrian Euro you really should think about what you say!

Also, can I just add that you clearly aren't in any state to make any comment about a confusing thread considering you firstly say the thread is lame and then make a pathetic attempt to offer your very unwanted opinion. A final drive may have merit but you certainly do not!

ndeuro, much of this comment can be applied to what you said as well :)

LOL. You made the " Buy a turbo " stupid comment and then you write this long diatribe about me commenting on the silly way this thread started. Of which you are the main contributor to the stupidness? :thumbdwn:
Theres no confusing to me about what a final drive is, read my post properly before making an even bigger arse of yourself here.
Get a clue and a life or better still find another forum.

Back on topics heres a few threads it took all of 20 seconds to find...:o

http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=668146&highlight=drive+final

http://tsx.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=668146&highlight=drive+final

[integral90]

Close the thread anyway, the question has been answered a few times

[EUR003act]

if the dyno doesn't know wat the gears are, then it cant accurately give a representation of wheel kw, u will get a gain or lose depending on if the ratio is shorter or higher, but techniquelly, its not there.

dyno gives power reading at the wheels... its exactly that... at the wheels... doesnt matter what your gearbox is doing...


Adrian the final drive is the final gear in your gearbox. It changes the overall speed of the final output speed of a gear (the final drive). If the ratio is higher, like the EuroR's 4.75 to the CL9's 4.38 (I think that's what Aaron said it was) then it takes approximately another .4 revolutions of the engine to make 1 revolution of the driveshaft, thus the engine needs to spin more to get the wheels to move the same speed, giving you a lower top speed in each gear.

The reason you want a shorter final drive is so the car can throw itself through each gear quicker because the gear isn't as long. But usually the shorter final drive is used in the Type R's where they're tuned for high rpm and they don't want to fall out of peak power after a shift. The K24A makes it's max torque at 4500rpm, and after a redline shift from 1st into 2nd you fall basically (I do) right back to 4500rpm. The CL9 box is pretty well suited to the power curve of the engine and I don't think the EuroR final drive would give you much benefit at all.

very true... stock K24A3 makes most power between 4500-6800rpm... shortening your final drive in most circumstances will take you out of the rev range... unless you drive around at 6000rpm all day...


final drive is a waste to change IMO unless you are going to track your car or quarter mile which then results in different final drive selection.
so unless your car is a daily track monster then don't bother wasting your money my 2c

cruising on the highway will be like 3500rpm in 6th gear lmao...


Using your example to get to a 60km/h limit, the stock 4.388 final drive will be quicker because you can reach close to 60km/h using just 1st gear. With a shorter final drive, you have to shift into 2nd. Same if you were going up to 100km/h, you can just barely get there in 2nd gear with the 4.388 but you would need 3rd gear with a shorter final drive.
yep!

4.3 final drive equals quicker 0-100 (ur still in second when u hit 100)

4.7 final drive equals quicker 1/4 mile (ur well into third when u finish)


Buy a turbo
read up about installing a turbo on a DBW CL9 before making comments like that...and he asked whether a CL7 final drive would fit in his euro, not what performance mods people think he should get...

IMO - final drive costs way too much if you dont have the mods to support it (dont forgot your looking at around $500-600 for install) for the money youd see better gains (accel + performance + economy) getting an intake and headers... :thumbsup:

[Crapdaz]

dyno gives power reading at the wheels... its exactly that... at the wheels... doesnt matter what your gearbox is doing...



very true... stock K24A3 makes most power between 4500-6800rpm... shortening your final drive in most circumstances will take you out of the rev range... unless you drive around at 6000rpm all day...



cruising on the highway will be like 3500rpm in 6th gear lmao...


yep!

4.3 final drive equals quicker 0-100 (ur still in second when u hit 100)

4.7 final drive equals quicker 1/4 mile (ur well into third when u finish)


read up about installing a turbo on a DBW CL9 before making comments like that...and he asked whether a CL7 final drive would fit in his euro, not what performance mods people think he should get...

IMO - final drive costs way too much if you dont have the mods to support it (dont forgot your looking at around $500-600 for install) for the money youd see better gains (accel + performance + economy) getting an intake and headers... :thumbsup:
rofl....