odometer tampering...

[gabacus]

hello all

i have been trying to search for some information on odometer tampering on the S2000. i dont want to actually do it, i am looking to buy and want to know if it is possible to find out if it has been tampered with.

i understand that a lot of these cars are weekend use only, so i expect the k's to be low, but some of them are just too good to be true.

is there any way to tell if the odometer has been tampered with?

btw if there is any way to avoid discussing how you would tamper with the odometer it would be much appreciated.

cheers

[Ferrari]

look at the overall condition of the car. If the bolsters are really worn, if the clutch doesnt bite well, brake pads, paint condition etc are all indicators of a car that may be tampered with if its indicating low kms. also log book servicing.

[CONAN]

Further to Ferrari's post, look at the clips surrounding the cluster and visually inspect it to see if the clips have been removed / tampered with. Usually if there are signs of wear etc this will mean it has been changed.

[gabacus]

I understand what too look for with normal where and tear which are in general a good indicator of the k's on the car. it can be hit and miss though..

i found this thread last night...

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59216&highlight=odometer

the second last post makes a reference to using a computer to see if the odometer has been tampered with. is this possible?

[S2kane]

When i was looking for my s2k i came across a unit that was in terrible condition, looked like it was parked out in the desert for a few years then dipped in the ocean.
The roof was faded so was the console and seats, the drivers seat had bad cracks in the leather.. not to mention the dint's and scratches.
It was at a Nissan dealer, advertised with 60k on the clock with full service history.
Out of curiosity i asked to see the log books and all the records stated the car was serviced (except for the first) at this same Nissan dealer who was selling it.
Also every entry in the book was written in the same pen, same hand writing at perfect 10,000k intervals.
I reckon this car had easily over 100,000k and they were trying to sell it for 38 grand..
Car dealers are a strange breed of people.. Gotta watch out for them

[gabacus]

my brother worked for a second hand car yard a while back the they always wound back the clocks. it was so common it would make you sick. i would never buy a second hand car from a car yard, there is no trusting them (which sux because im sure there are decent people who run car yards...)

[chicken8]

ok firstly. the s2000 odometer is digital

you can't just "wind" it back

the things you will find is either a new cluster has been put in with lower kms. or the cluster has been connected up to a laptop and had the data wiped and changed

im just going by memory here so don't treat it as gospel

underneath the car near the gearbox area should be a connection. you shouldnt be able to see it as its tucked away above the exhaust (something like that. im going by memory from 3yrs ago here) but if you see a connector just swinging around there and not tucked up and tied up above the exhaust then its a pretty good sign the kms have been fiddled with

this apparantly is the connection which leads up to your cluster and can be reset if you had the right hardware/software to do so

[gabacus]

i just had a thought... when you re-register you have to say what the k's are on the clock right? so, if the car has had high k's and was then put back you would see that in the registration history. Also, if someone disconnected there odometer, you should see that the k's have not changed in years...

i know a revs check would tell you what the current registered k's should be, but can it give you a history?

[ludecrs]

hondaone.com.au is also agood one if you have vin numbers and the car has been previously serviced at any Honda dealership....

[chicken8]

RTA doesnt really care about your KMs

they dont really check if your current pink slip is greater than your last.

hondaone.com.au only has service history from honda dealerships. so if the guy had it serviced elsewhere it wouldnt show up in hondaone. and also hondaone needs 10 days to clear from memory. so its not good for sales purposes

but you can get the same details by ringing honda australia and requesting service history over the phone with them. its a 1800 number too so its free

[ludecrs]

You missed the point......

If its been wound back, and was serviced at a Honda dealership sometime in the past 10 years of manufacture, it shows the Km reading when it was serviced.

Hondaone KM reading > speedo infront of your face.

[chicken8]

you also missed the point

10 days waiting for hondaone to verify you

[rokkuchan]

I don't think you can just swap the cluster and get a new or different reading... it'll be the same... the K's should be stored in the ECU and keeps the count. The cluster just gets and display the info on the ECU?

and most modern cars is not possible to wind back or replace clusters/ecu to get new reading... as clusters and ecu requires like a digital signature or some sort to verify this cluster belongs to this ecu or otherwise immobiliser will kick in...

to wind back modern odometers, u either know how to re-program using the CONSULT programmer tool or you're a hardcore chip assembly programmer and know how to reverse engineer these codes.

i'm sure it's common sense for any car manufacturer to do this when designing the odometer...

I'm just hypothesising here, not sure if it is this way... it could be just as simple as swapping the cluster and get a new reading...

[OMG.JAI xD]

i heard you just swap 2 pins in the back of the cluster connections and it rewinds as you drive :/
on the earlier model s2k's.


anyone confirm?

[y0da]

is there any way to retrieve more information from Hondaone?

I signed up for it and can see that there were a few General Repairs in the first 10000kms.

I'm sure it would have been repaired under warranty but out of curiousity I want to know exactly what was done.

[gabacus]

rewind and you drive... isnt that out of a scene from farris bulers day off?

well, it didnt work in the movie and i cant imagine it would be as simple as swapping 2 pins...

but if it is i think its even more important to find a way to tell if it has been tampered with.

i think the key is with the registration. my brother used to do pink slips and im sure he had to enter the k's that were on the clock. there must be a way to get this information. i know that revs will give you the current registered k's for the car... so if it had 160k on the clock when it was last registered and then they took it back to 80k for the sale a revs check should alert you. but if they have disconnected the odometer for a few years and drove across the country a couple of times, i dont think there is a way of discovering that...

[fangske]

My 99 AP1 has done a legit 45000kms, there was a Red AP1 with about 30 something at the last meet.

I average about 6-8000 kms a year. So it is very possible to see early models with Low Km's,

That being said, my S was a company car before I bought it. And I only drive on the w/e

[SlobberGoat]

hondaone.com.au is also agood one if you have vin numbers and the car has been previously serviced at any Honda dealership....

hondaone.com.au? good? pfffttt....

I just tried to register using:
a) 1989 crx
b) 1996 civic
c) 2003 jazz
d) 2005 accord

And in every case it said my vin was wrong (which they are not). tried with upper and lower case (because I wasn't sure if it was case sensitive)

[S2kane]

Did you use the letter o or number 0?
Should always be the number
That can stuff people up.

[SlobberGoat]

Did you use the letter o or number 0?
Should always be the number
That can stuff people up.

The numbers... I know there are no 'O' & 'Q's etc in VIN numbers.

[chicken8]

is there any way to retrieve more information from Hondaone?

I signed up for it and can see that there were a few General Repairs in the first 10000kms.

I'm sure it would have been repaired under warranty but out of curiousity I want to know exactly what was done.

hondaone has limited information

but you can find out what each entry was if you rang hondas 1800 number

also don't be worried with general repairs

as my non-logbook services were all put into the system as general repairs

so your 5000km service etc were all listed as general repairs

[panda]

ok firstly. the s2000 odometer is digital

you can't just "wind" it back



i am under the same opinion

[gabacus]

well... i agree they cannot be physically wound back, but they can be reprogrammed. when i was selling my '98 pulsar a while back i was quoted $160 to get the odometer reprogrammed. all i had to do was take out the components and go see the guy. that simple! dont know if it is as simple on an S...

for the record i didnt get the odometer reprogrammed (this was something that was set up without me actually asking for it to be done..)

[.::F[L]Y::.]

I don't think you can just swap the cluster and get a new or different reading... it'll be the same... the K's should be stored in the ECU and keeps the count. The cluster just gets and display the info on the ECU?

and most modern cars is not possible to wind back or replace clusters/ecu to get new reading... as clusters and ecu requires like a digital signature or some sort to verify this cluster belongs to this ecu or otherwise immobiliser will kick in...

to wind back modern odometers, u either know how to re-program using the CONSULT programmer tool or you're a hardcore chip assembly programmer and know how to reverse engineer these codes.

i'm sure it's common sense for any car manufacturer to do this when designing the odometer...

I'm just hypothesising here, not sure if it is this way... it could be just as simple as swapping the cluster and get a new reading...

Incorrect. The ecu doesnt store the kms. The kms travelled are stored on the cluster itself.

[CONAN]

Thats right FLY.

You can source a cluster from anywhere (Wreckers, Ebay, forums) and install it quite easily. All of the odometer reading is located in the cluster unit itself. If you want to know whether it has been changed or not, will be hard, but like I said in my previous post, have a look around the cluster unit and check for signs of wear / damage around cluster surround.

[98octane+]

My old neighbour used to work for VW doing the electronics, I've been told the cluster could be reset only once by the car dealer cancelling the first 50km. Any thing after that has to go back to the manufacturer. Anyway that's what I've been told.