Magnetic Sum Plug for CD5?

[xcwizit]

Just wanted to know if the Magnetic Sum Plug will affect the engine in anyway magnetically?

- http://ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100386&highlight=magnetic

Seen this thread, might be a good idea, since the bottom end of my oil sum pan has oil leaking from somewhere, and I think it might be the sum plug is too tight or not tight enough. Im not sure but is the sum plug supposed to have a rubber washer? Mine doesnt, it has a metal washer though!

[CB7_OWNER]

No it wont effect the engine in any negative way....only thing i can think of is if the magnet snaps off, and gets into your engine...(then your extremely unlucky)....i've got one of the plugs on my car....its pretty useless imo....i've had one on for about 10,000km's now... and no difference...there isnt even any magnetic pieces that it picks up .......

O and there all metal washers...i had a slight leak too... i ended up using 2 washers.. no leaks now..

[JohnL]

Attach a magnet to the outside of the oil filter. Iron / steel swarf in the oil passing the magnetic field will get stuck to the inside of the filter canister. The magnet I use is circular (from an old speaker), and stuck to the rear of the filter (i.e. the end opposite the screw on fitting).

The magnet (fitted in any location) has no affect on the engine beyond entrapping any ferrous metal particles that are too small to be caught in the oil filter screen. It may increase engine longevity, slightly.

A magnetic sump plug certainly won't affect an oil leak in any manner. The washer should be soft aluminium or copper, and you should replace it each time you change the oil (in theory, but in practice you can re-use them a few times so long as you don't overtighten the plug and crush the washer). Copper washers can be annealed (re-softened) each time by heating them red hot then cooling (fast or slow, doesn't matter with copper).

[e240]

^^ I've seen this around and just cannot fathom the logic of trapping it at that point around the filter. I am of the opinion that Magnets around the filter amount to nothing more than snake oil.

1) You want to trap the debri @ point before the Oil pump, there is a mesh at the inlet point which helps, a sump plugs helps as well by holding metal debri in the sump.
2) If the reason is to trap things after the Oil pump, a) if it comes from the sump, it could already damage the oil pump, b) If it comes after the oil pump, most likely its your oil pump so you're screwed anyway, c) The filter would trap anything after the oil pump anyway.
3) metal debri might come from the engine which then flows into the sump, so for the reason in (2), you'd prefably want to trap it in the sump.

[EK1.6LCIV]

lol @ magnets on the oil filter...

the sump plug magnet is a good idea and is effective, still debating one for the transmisson plug

also I wouldn't bother reusing the washer as it is a "crush washer" which means it's suposed to crush to make a seal as all oem washer do at the speicified torque (refer owners manual) I mean they are less than a dollar at Honda (as they are alum) and cheaper at Supercheap (for copper ones). Most other car dealers use copper ones to save cost (but charge the same, lol), Honda doesn't which is good to see

[xcwizit]

No it wont effect the engine in any negative way....only thing i can think of is if the magnet snaps off, and gets into your engine...(then your extremely unlucky)....i've got one of the plugs on my car....its pretty useless imo....i've had one on for about 10,000km's now... and no difference...there isnt even any magnetic pieces that it picks up .......

O and there all metal washers...i had a slight leak too... i ended up using 2 washers.. no leaks now..

MAGNET SNAPPING OFF? No that will not be good!!

hrrrmm from the sounds of a few of you.. its a GO-GO for magnetic sum plugs! I have to go to Essendon Honda this coming saturday to pick up my new car key, so I will pick up some washers also!

Just off-topic i think it is stupid where they are located now (near airport), anyone can get lost going there. I preferred the old place @ Vida St, just past Highpoint.

[JohnL]

MAGNET SNAPPING OFF? No that will not be good!!


If the magnet falls off the sump plug, then (unless it's a very weak magnet, which it might need to be in order to fall off the plug...) it will just magnetically adhere to somewhere else, i.e. to the sump right next to the plug hole (and won't go anywhere). The only case in which this won't happen is if the sump is made from non ferrous metal, i.e. aluminium or magnesium (but even then, the magnet would just sit / slide around in the bottom of the sump).

[JohnL]

^^ I've seen this around and just cannot fathom the logic of trapping it at that point around the filter. I am of the opinion that Magnets around the filter amount to nothing more than snake oil.

It doesn't really matter where the metallic debris is entrapped, all that matters is that it's taken out of circulation and entrapped somewhere / anywhere where it can do no damage. It would be possible to trap ferrous metallic particulates just by sticking a magnet anywhere near the bottom of the sump, but not a good idea since they wouldn't come out when you drained the oil.

It's also important to use a strong magnet that won't fall off easily (releasing any trapped particles in one go). The filter is a good place to place a magnet because any trapped particles are removed entirely when the filter is changed.

One thing that is better about trapping it on the sump plug is that the debris will be easily visible at that point, whereas trapping it in the filter means you'd have to cut the filter apart to know it's there (and even then it might be hard to see since the magnet will probably fall off during filter dissasembly..).

It's actually a good idea to cut the (used) filter apart to examine just what it might have caught, especially with engines that have been recently rebuilt in some way.


1) You want to trap the debri @ point before the Oil pump, there is a mesh at the inlet point which helps, a sump plugs helps as well by holding metal debri in the sump.

We're really talking about debris much smaller than the chunks strained by the pick up screen. It will be unavoidable that some debris passes through the pump, and (hopefully) be trapped in the filter (and any magnetic debris trap).


2) If the reason is to trap things after the Oil pump, a) if it comes from the sump, it could already damage the oil pump,

b) If it comes after the oil pump, most likely its your oil pump so you're screwed anyway,

The tiny debris particles we're discussing will wear the pump over time, not cause rapid catastrophic failure. The metallic debris trapped by a magnet typically looks like grey sludge (very fine particles), with relatively few if any larger particles (more likely to be trapped in the filter, or just sit in the bottom of the sump if big / heavy enough).



c) The filter would trap anything after the oil pump anyway.

Not the micro particles that are smaller than the matrix holes in the filter.


3) metal debri might come from the engine which then flows into the sump, so for the reason in (2), you'd prefably want to trap it in the sump.

Lets imagine the life story of a micro metallic particle; the particle is born when it breaks away from a larger piece of iron / steel. It then lives in the the oil, being pumped through all parts of the system over time (if not caught / entrapped very early). At the end of each 'journey' through the lubrication system it ends up suspended in the oil back in the sump, before being drawn back into the pump and recirculated (though it may sink to the bottom and become part of the sludge (that may or may not exist)).

On each 'journey' through the lubrication system the particle may or may not be passed through the oil filter (not all oil is passed through the filter), but if it does it stands a very good chance of passing close by a magnetic field (created by a magnet placed on the outside of the filter), and being trapped by that field.

On the other hand, if that magnetic feild doesn't exist at the filter but at the sump plug, then the particle will have to pass very close to the plug to be entrapped by the magnetic field.

As far as the particle is concerned the sump is a huge place (that the sump plug magnet is in a remote corner of), and it may take many many 'journeys' before the particle just happens by chance to pass close enough to the plug magnet to be caught / trapped.

So, in all probability, the particle will be free in the oil for a longer time (doing more damage) if the magnet is placed on the plug rather than on the filter. This is because the filter is a bottleneck through which the particle must pass at least once every few journeys through the system, but the sump plug is located in a remote part of the particle's 'world' where it might not go very often at all...

Having said that, in reality a particle is probably going to get caught by a sump plug magnet sooner or later, but you have to buy or make a magnetised sump plug, whereas it's very easy to just stick a magnet onto the filter.

[JohnL]

lol @ magnets on the oil filter...
the sump plug magnet is a good idea and is effective,

More effective on the filter, but magnets are cheap, do both....


still debating one for the transmisson plug

Logically, it would be more useful on the gearbox. Consider what's going on in the gearbox; lots of steel surfaces engaging / impacting / sliding under very high loadings over extended periods of time. Even with very good lubrication, significant quantities of very hard metalic particulates must be created and suspended in the oil where they again forced into hard contact with working surfaces.

Added to this, no oil filter exists and oil change intervals for gearboxes are very long (a lot of gearboxes never have the oil changed). I can't see that it would hurt to have a magnet on the plug...

[JohnL]

At 20,000 KM I have found that during oil changes (I do mine every 5,000 KM) the fist change had a LOT of particulate matter stuck to it in both the engine and trans.

With each change the amount of "Crap" stuck to the magnetic end of the plug has gone down and at the last change at 20,000 KM there was NOTHING stuck to the end of the magnet. So it looks like as the engine and trans get broken in they stop shedding particles of metal.

This is what normally happens as an engine 'runs in', i.e. metal wears away from 'high spots' at an accelerated rate until the surfaces bed in to each other (become microscopically smooth, instead of microscopically rough), after which the wear rate substantially reduces.


And Honda uses the solid aluminum washers for a reason... use them they are so cheap my Honda dealer gives one away with every filter you buy.

Copper or aluminium makes no difference, both work just as well. Both are used because in an annealed state they are soft / malleable metals (the best of all metals for this use would be gold...). The worst sump plug washers are the nylon ones that some car makers use (IMO should be replaced with metal ones).

[55EXX]

i have a magnetic gearbox oil plug and when i do a G/O change the metal it collects is a very fine sludge paste. couldn't believe how much there was and how fine it was!! really just a paste not metal bits etc. pain to try and wipe clean. it keeps wanting to stick to it.

[JohnL]

i have a magnetic gearbox oil plug and when i do a G/O change the metal it collects is a very fine sludge paste. couldn't believe how much there was and how fine it was!! really just a paste not metal bits etc. pain to try and wipe clean. it keeps wanting to stick to it.

That's because that paste used to be part of the gear and bearing surfaces. It looks like a soft paste, but it's made up from hardened steel particles (and oil). Much better to be stuck to the magnet than circulating in the oil...

[xcwizit]

geez did not think the magnetic sum plug has so much more into it in regards to the story of keeping your car clean wherever there is oil sitting in and around the engine. You all know what I mean!