Sway Bars and Bang for ya buck..

[Vtecyo]

I dont know much about sway bars, only the basics. And often as the case is in life, Bigger is better.... Because thicker= stronger =less flex = tighter handeling.

Correct me if im wrong but a standard VTi-R sway bar ( front or back im not sure ) is about 22mm. A ITR is about 26mm and i think i read a whiteline front bar is about 24mm...

My question is, What kinda bang for buck are sway bars.

Im about to put SKunk2 springs on some KYB shocks and i duno if its worth the $300 (2nd hand i think) odd bucks to get whiteline....or ITR watever the case maybe


Am i really going to notice the 2mm or 4 mm thickness difference ?


Thanks, plz enlighten my noobness

[simonnowis]

a rear swaybar will def make the difference since honda a fwd has understeer,
i recommend getting itr swaybars and an asr sub-reinforcement brace is a must.
yes you will notice the difference in handling with 2-4mm thickness diff, of course the bigger size diff the more noticable diff.
btw itr rear is 22mm thick and 98 spec itr is 23mm, - correct me if im wrong

[RtN]

and rear vti-r is 13mm for em1/ek4s

[dahon]

i think hes talking about integras but here u go buddy:

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26820

Integra
DA1 Front only
DA9 Front & Rear
DC4 (Gsi) Front & Rear
DC2 (VtiR) Front & Rear (24mm & 14mm)
DC2R Front & Rear

if you really want to add a sway bar, an ITR bar coupled with an asr brace would be the most effective path.. or a whiteline bar...

2mm difference wouldnt really be as noticable as youd think, you would have to turn it harder to feel most of the difference... response of the car through a corner may improve by a small amount but it wouldnt increase as considerably as an upgrade from a 14mm bar to a 22mm bar..

quoting team-integra.net & read some extra stuff off autospeed:
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2359/article.html
http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showarticle.asp?ArticleID=295

Sway bar sizing

The diameter of a sway bar determines it's stiffness. You can compare the stiffness of your stock sway bar to a bar you are thinking of purchasing by using a simple formula.

% stiffness compared to stock = (new diameter/stock diameter)^4

For example, if you have a GS-R with a 14mm rear sway bar and upgraded to a 22mm Type R rear sway bar you would calculate

(22/14)^4 = 6.10

This means a 22mm sway bar is roughly six times as stiff as the stock sway bar. Big difference don't you think? Subtract 1 at the end of that equation and you'll get a figure telling actually how much stiffer the bar is. So in that equation you'd come out with 5.10 or 510% stiffer than stock.


so in the end youd get that a 24mm bar would be around 40% stiffer than a 22mm bar... ie: (24/22)^4 = 1.4 - 24mm bar is 1.4 times the stiffness of the 22mm bar..
depending on your application/situation then you can choose which type you want, but for street use, a large bar would definately be overkill.

[string]

Do not upgrade your front swaybar. I repeat, leave it stock. Spend the money upgrading the REAR swaybar. Increasing the front roll resistance might give you some "response" in the steering, but you aren't driving a RWD - if you want to go fast in a FWD you need to keep the front soft, in the same way that a rear wheel drive keeps the rear soft (notice a trend? softly sprung where the power and weight is). Stock FWD's have it completely backwards, because otherwise they'd feel downright nasty to a population of RWD purists!

[Limbo]

the front VTIRs & CTR & ITR are all 26mm.
The rear EK4 & EM1 are 13mm (i proved this a while ago by going out and measuring mine)

ITR & CTR are 22mm i'm pretty sure.

WHiteline ones can be almost any size as they can be custom ordered to suit.

On a street can 24mm would be the max. & i would recommend and ASR so your rear end does not rip out.

Performance wise its prob better bang for buck than doing your shocks, but that's from my personal experience.

[Vtecyo]

cheers guys.
im looking into it :) ill keep u posted

[JohnL]

Stock FWD's have it completely backwards, because otherwise they'd feel downright nasty to a population of RWD purists!

It's more because the manufacturer wants the car to understeer in all circumstances because when you run out of grip the instinctive reaction for 'motorists' is to lift off the throttle or jump on the brakes, which is more or less the correct thing to do with understeer. It's more user friendly for inexpert drivers because lifting off / braking creates a forward weight transfer that causes the front wheels to regain grip.

On then other hand if the car were to oversteer and the typical minimallly skilled driver followed their instinct and backed off / braked then the car would be likely to crash because lifting off / braking creates a forward weight transfer that causes the rear wheels to further lose grip.

Note that the vast majority of RWD cars are also factory set up to understeer strongly by means of making the suspension more roll stiff in the front relative to the rear (same method as for stock FWD). Some degree of understeer is more or less insisted upon by the car company lawyers, even for sporty variants.

[Vtecyo]

im looking into a whiteline front Bar.

Would you recomend the 24mm or 27mm bar ?

Im looked to dramaticly reduce my body roll, but is the 27mm too big ? What would it mean ?

string- i understand what you are saying, however since ive chosen just to get springs over coilovers im in need of some front straightening. And pretty much all the ppl i talk to would recomend it.

Im also looked to upgrade my back bar to an ITR bar...


thanks

[trism]

dont go too stiff int eh front

24mm would be plenty imo

[040501912]

swaybars are better then strut bar...
it actualy hold the suspension parts together.. strut bar is more to chassis stiffner ..

[Limbo]

with a stiffer swaybar your gonna need the strutbar/ASR otherwise you'll most likely rip your rear end.

[T-onedc2]

Just to set the record straight on sway bar sizes,
DC2 VTi-R
Front 24mm Rear 14mm

DC2R (+JDM '96)
Front 24mm Rear 22mm

JDM '98 DC2R
Front 25mm Rear 23mm

I have front DC2R 24mm and rear JDM '98 23mm + Beaks subframe reinforcement kit and tie bar.

Either Beaks or ASR is absolutely recommended on bigger than about 18mm rear.

EDIT: A lack of rear strut bar won't encourage tearing of the subframe in any way, but will improve rigidity and give a much more solid and predictive feel in the rear.

[Vtecyo]

btw I got a Cusco rear brace going across my boot already:)

A question, for the rear, is a ASR really necessary ? Cos they are dam expensive xD

Im gonna see how my coilover go be4 i invest in the swaybars :D

cheers guys

[dahon]

as was repeated many times man...
for a rear sway bar bigger than stock for your car (ie bigger than 14mm for a vti-r etc etc) then an asr is absolutely necessary to prevent subframe tearing due to the large forces exerted by the swaybar on the subframe during heavy cornering.
if your car does not have a sway bar to start with, get an oem (14mm from a vti-r - sourced from a wrecker or from someone on this forum etc) one put on as it is definately the cheaper option (max 100 bux all up), you dont have to put a asr brace on (outlined why above) and is more than enough for a daily driver (counters most of the understeer your car probably experiences during cornering).

[T-onedc2]

A question, for the rear, is a ASR really necessary ? Cos they are dam expensive xD
it's cheaper than a subframe repair lol

[dudeling7]

its definitely worth it man.

would you rather a torn subframe in which needs to be cut out and a new one re welded in or spend $300 on a ASR brace that protects the car and looks bling haha

[Limbo]

do a search on subframe tears and i'm sure you'll be lining up for one