Selling multiple vehicles in Marketplace

[yourfather]

Hi,

Cartoon a registered user and a member is selling more than one vehicle at a time.

Purchasing repairable writeoffs, fixing them up and selling them.

There is nothing wrong with this practice, but in my opinion he is operating as a business and therefore should have a trader account.

Regards

yF

[mrwillz]

thanks for the heads up yf

[90LAN]

technically he can sell 7 cars a year before he needs to have a dealers licence
but he can sell and buy as many cars as he chooses it none of your business
what he does
what are we going to have car traders on here now too lol

[yourfather]

Well he didn't point out that these are repairable writeoffs until someone told him they found out on a revs check

[90LAN]

Well he didn't point out that these are repairable writeoffs until someone told him they found out on a revs check

well the onus is on the buyer to do all checks
thats why we have revs check available
you only buy the car when u are 100% happy with everything
its your own fault if u dont do all the checks
and buy the car

[Q_ball]

^ Perfectly put.
Not our place to intervene with sales.
It has always been up to the buyer to dig deep into the particular car.

And yes, regarding the number of cars for sale, i do think its a bit lower than 7 a yr here in NSW...

[yourfather]

this is bullshit.

the reason why you have issues with traders such as auto concepts is because none of you guys in green do anything to protect the users.

i've raised this many times and no-one gives a ****.

you just want to clean up pornography and a few naughty words.

and this is not a personal comment, because I know a lot of you personally and you are in most part nice people.

but for ****s sake, arent we meant to help each other out as part of a community.

"oh its the buyers onus" no its not, if we know what is going on and what is dodgy, we should put our hand up and say that this is bullshit

and until you mods pull your fingers out of your ass and do something about it, you'll see people getting ****ed out of their money

[Q_ball]

I see where ur coming from Luc... but you do realise that Ozhonda is like a soap opera waiting to unravel.
If we allow ppl to warn each other about car X or Y, then it opens the thread up to unwarranted bumps, and spam.

Perhaps if you can help us think of an alternative to get around this issue, i'm sure the other mods/admin will look into it further and discuss.

[yourfather]

i'll have a think and get back to you

[tseesinngwailo]

Surely if someone buys a heap of things, regardless what they are and are selling constantly (and its easily apparent they are not leftovers, or upgrades) maybe that person should have a trader account, there is a big difference between selling a few things to recover money after a build-up and using this place as a Honda-related ebay?

I have been interested in a few of those repaired cars that were for sale, but it does make me wonder just how much profit is involved, and how well the repairs have been done. Is this a potential law suite waiting to happen? (mr X who lost his son due to dodgey car sold on this forum, sues the forum as well as the seller...)

Maybe as long as the seller has a separate post for each car, and comprehensive details about the car?

My 2 cents la!

Mind you, if that seller has an EK bodyshell cheap, i might risk it!

[Mr_will]

it would be pretty simple to impose a limit on the frequency of vehicle for sale ads able to be placed by a user, would it not?

i mean anyone who goes through more than, say (for the sake of argument) two or three cars a year is either a) making money somehow or b) has enough money to be able to afford carsales ads.

at the end of the day this is a forum for people to discuss honda related things and help each other out.

we shouldnt be facilitating the sale of cars where buyers are being mislead, even where it is being done within the law. just because something is immoral but not illegal doesnt mean it has to be tolerated, imho.

[sassy_fit_vtit]

i think 90lan makes a good point, that at the end of the day it is the buyers responsibility to do their research about the vehicles, what difference does it make if it is say an ad in the trading post or ebay?

If someone was ignorant enough to buy a car without making the relevant checks then it is their own mistake. As is solution i think it might be a good idea to make it mandatory to post Vin #'s so it is there but ultimately it is up to the buyer.

In terms of selling multiple cars, as long as it is within the allowable amount that the relevant transport department allows then whats the problem.? And even if there was to be a limitation on OH's part it would be hard to monitor or cause more problems for those who genuinely go through many cars, eg my brother in law sold one of his car's bought another car, bought back his old one and now wants to sell both of them cos he is bored of them and has a 3rd car siting in the backyard that he doesn't even use and thats within the last 3months.

And correct me if i'm wrong but all oh traders need to be a registered business and supply an ABN number, hence they can't register as a trader, if you are suspicious of someones activities then by all means contact the ato for not declaring it on their income but .who are you to decide or assume that parts for sale aren't leftovers or items previously purchased with the intention of use?

At the end of the day this is a free forum, and wyn has added the privilege to sell. The mods don't get paid and do this for the honour of helping this community, what can you expect from a free service and what entitlement do you have to it?

[yourfather]

i think 90lan makes a good point, that at the end of the day it is the buyers responsibility to do their research about the vehicles, what difference does it make if it is say an ad in the trading post or ebay?

If someone was ignorant enough to buy a car without making the relevant checks then it is their own mistake. As is solution i think it might be a good idea to make it mandatory to post Vin #'s so it is there but ultimately.

In terms of selling multiple cars, as long as it is within the allowable amount that the relevant transport department allows then whats the problem.? And even if there was to be a limitation on OH's part it would be hard to monitor or cause more problems for those who genuinely go through many cars,

listen, I dont even know why they made you a mod, you seriously have no people skills and have nothing to contribute.

"if someone was ignorant enough to buy a car" - yeah and I bet you'd be the first to complain if some guy ****ed you over in a deal because you are a woman.

thats the type of "oh, im not responsible so therefore its not my problem" kinda shit attitude that i am talking about


eg my brother in law sold one of his car's bought another car, bought back his old one and now wants to sell both of them cos he is bored of them and has a 3rd car siting in the backyard that he doesn't even use and thats within the last 3months.

you miss the point completely. the guy is selling repairable write offs on the forums for profit.

[OMG.JAI xD]

I reckon the seller made the mistake of not stating the fact that those cars are repairable write offs.
On this forum, it concerns the buyers/users.

Theres a reason why our laws state that you need to sell a certain amount of cars before you qualify or be considered as a trader therefore requiring a license.
He might even have other cars at home that make him qualify as a trader but wont sell until he sells the cars that he has up for sale.

Traders arent legally able to sell written off cars, even if they have been repaired. They need to be properly inspected, blue slipped and registered. (correct me if im wrong).

And as it has been stated before.
It is the buyers choice and responsibility to look up information on a car and make sure that it is what the buyer wants.
He doesnt need to provide a blue slip nor registration.

And yes you have a point about protecting our users, and i think the only way for ozhonda to achieve this is to place a rule that states the current on road worthiness of a car. But then again it is more work for the mods to make sure that each car isnt a written off car if not stated.

He/she isnt doing anything wrong by selling written off cars that he or someone else has fixed. If he did a dodgey job on the car how would we know right?
well, again. it is the buyers choice to take upon the risk of purchasing a written off car.

He is simply providing the option for people.
If you ever look in carsales, you are allowed to post up unregistered cars for sale.


In the end, the way I see it as.
If you dont have a mod status it shouldnt be your problem. Your concern for others is of course a positive trait you have.
90lan has pointed out that he'll need a certain amount of cars to sell at any one time before he qualifies as a business and require a dealer license.
A vehicle is not purchased online. If people do that practice than it is f***ing stupid.
When purchasing a car, IT IS the buyers responsibility to check the car for any encumbrances and act accordingly.
When I purchased my car it was under finance, i still purchased it but made sure the seller payed of the remaining amount. Till then i transfer registration under my name.
I knew the situation and acted according to what I see fit.
I chose to purchase a vehicle with an existing encumbrance.
The fact is, now it is stated as written off's. Which means he/she isnt doing anything wrong. He/she only made a mistake.

And as for making profit. People have to start somewhere. If you see an opportunity, take it.

[yourfather]

I reckon the seller made the mistake of not stating the fact that those cars are repairable write offs.
On this forum, it concerns the buyers/users.

Theres a reason why our laws state that you need to sell a certain amount of cars before you qualify or be considered as a trader therefore requiring a license.
He might even have other cars at home that make him qualify as a trader but wont sell until he sells the cars that he has up for sale.

Traders arent legally able to sell written off cars, even if they have been repaired. They need to be properly inspected, blue slipped and registered. (correct me if im wrong).

And as it has been stated before.
It is the buyers choice and responsibility to look up information on a car and make sure that it is what the buyer wants.
He doesnt need to provide a blue slip nor registration.

And yes you have a point about protecting our users, and i think the only way for ozhonda to achieve this is to place a rule that states the current on road worthiness of a car. But then again it is more work for the mods to make sure that each car isnt a written off car if not stated.

He/she isnt doing anything wrong by selling written off cars that he or someone else has fixed. If he did a dodgey job on the car how would we know right?
well, again. it is the buyers choice to take upon the risk of purchasing a written off car.

He is simply providing the option for people.
If you ever look in carsales, you are allowed to post up unregistered cars for sale.


In the end, the way I see it as.
If you dont have a mod status it shouldnt be your problem. Your concern for others is of course a positive trait you have.
90lan has pointed out that he'll need a certain amount of cars to sell at any one time before he qualifies as a business and require a dealer license.
A vehicle is not purchased online. If people do that practice than it is f***ing stupid.
When purchasing a car, IT IS the buyers responsibility to check the car for any encumbrances and act accordingly.
When I purchased my car it was under finance, i still purchased it but made sure the seller payed of the remaining amount. Till then i transfer registration under my name.
I knew the situation and acted according to what I see fit.
I chose to purchase a vehicle with an existing encumbrance.
The fact is, now it is stated as written off's. Which means he/she isnt doing anything wrong. He/she only made a mistake.

And as for making profit. People have to start somewhere. If you see an opportunity, take it.

yeah so you have to trust a guy in cabramatta that his repair job is going to be good enough for you to be able to re-register the car.

[ek4-guy]

As the onus is on the buyer and unfortunatly thats the way things works

I have previously sugested a sticky be made for the parts forsale and now would like to add cars forsale section to this suggestion

The sticky could be like a checklist of information that buyer should obtain before buying any items to help buyers not get ripped off

I have also suggested making the supply of receipts for parts sold mandatory

[OMG.JAI xD]

Its your choice.
If you wanted to take upon the risk then you should know what youre getting into.
and just because someone comes from a certain area you shouldnt single out the quality of work.
Its the same thing as being racist. Just cause someone is black doesnt mean theyre a thug. Just because someone is from cabramatta doesnt mean hes asian.
Just because someone is lebanese doesnt mean they produce poor work.
Its not fair on the person to start pointing fingers and blaming things that is unrelative to the topic. Doesnt matter who or what he/she is. Dont stereotype something or someone unless you know its a fact.
If you go and inspect the car and see that the work done was not up to standards then fine, you have your point and I take back what i say.
But no one has the right to judge until you know for a fact that what you stated is true.

Im not on any ones side.
Its just i dont see a major issue besides the fact he didnt say the cars were write offs.
But then again. they have no rego. you wouldnt be stupid enough to not ask questions.

[dc2dc2dc2]

i say ban him
absolute bullshit
go lucas !

selling repairable writeoffs for a profit
GTFO

[yourfather]

may I just say, that race has nothing to do with it.

Stop pissing in each others pockets and accept the fact that it's nice that other people do care about you not getting ripped off

Im sick of hearing caveat emptor from your mouths and not really caring about this issue.

The facts do not lie

[OMG.JAI xD]

I never said it was a race issue. I mearly compared.

And how is it getting ripped off?
He repaired the car. Wouldnt you be better off purchasing a car that is an obvious write off or buying a car that has gone thru the dodgey process of being re registered from a write off. as in a dodgey blue slip was provided. and the encumbrance was cleared.

The way I see it. Id rather buy a car that is written off and repaired and know about it, rather than purchase the car thinking its a legitimate car only to find out a repair was made to the car prior to the sale.

As i said. Its all about choice.
There are no facts. Selling repairable write offs that has been repaired is not a crime. places like pickles auctions sell written off and statutory write off cars.
This person decided to repair them, at the same time, making profit.
He isnt forcing anyone to purchase the car.
When a car is posted for sale, it is an OPTION wheter to buy or not.

Youre not buying the car, therefore it shouldnt be of your concern.
I dont see how you see it as getting ripped off.
Hes not selling a written off car that has been repaired and registered. hes selling an unregistered car that has been repaired.

[yourfather]

I never said it was a race issue. I mearly compared.

And how is it getting ripped off?
He repaired the car. Wouldnt you be better off purchasing a car that is an obvious write off or buying a car that has gone thru the dodgey process of being re registered from a write off. as in a dodgey blue slip was provided. and the encumbrance was cleared.

The way I see it. Id rather buy a car that is written off and repaired and know about it, rather than purchase the car thinking its a legitimate car only to find out a repair was made to the car prior to the sale.

As i said. Its all about choice.
There are no facts. Selling repairable write offs that has been repaired is not a crime. places like pickles auctions sell written off and statutory write off cars.
This person decided to repair them, at the same time, making profit.
He isnt forcing anyone to purchase the car.
When a car is posted for sale, it is an OPTION wheter to buy or not.

Youre not buying the car, therefore it shouldnt be of your concern.
I dont see how you see it as getting ripped off.
Hes not selling a written off car that has been repaired and registered. hes selling an unregistered car that has been repaired.

See, your argument falls on this point:

"This person decided to repair them, at the same time, making a profit."

If that is indeed true, the guy is operating a business. And therefore should have a trader account

[90LAN]

well its really simple your father u just dont buy the car
simple as that mate
u wont have any problems
as for other people u say are getting ripped of then thats there bad luck for not doing their checks
repaiarable writeoffs are throughly checked before they are passed
how do i know i have bought and repaired a repairable write off car before
it is not as easy as you put it
it takes time and money and alot of paperwork and time
so all repairs have to be done to rwc condition and checked at a rwof inspection center
so the owner of the repairable write off can sell the car what he sees fit to sell for once it is up rwc condition
this is happening all the time on all 2nd hand car sale sites
so stopping it happening here wont stop whats happening all the time everywhere else
at the end of the day no one is making you buy the car
you are buying the car because you want it or you believe it is a cheap car or good value

rpairable writes offs are listed for life as that
people just have to check
really simple

[ek4-guy]

Im sick of hearing caveat emptor from your mouths


but it's the way of the world we live in are you trying to change the world starting with ozhonda

[90LAN]

See, your argument falls on this point:

"This person decided to repair them, at the same time, making a profit."

If that is indeed true, the guy is operating a business. And therefore should have a trader account


so everyone on ebay is a business are they
lol hahahahahahahaha

its his car he is entitled to sell for what ever he wants
so youre saying no one can make any profit
because it is morally wrong
lolololol
your way of thinking is so funny mate

[ek4-guy]

may I just say, that race has nothing to do with it.

Stop pissing in each others pockets and accept the fact that it's nice that other people do care about you not getting ripped off

Im sick of hearing caveat emptor from your mouths and not really caring about this issue.
The facts do not lie

so you say the dude should have a trader account the people that would gain from him having to pay trader account fews have said he doesn't need one

nuff said

[yourfather]

See, your argument falls on this point:

"This person decided to repair them, at the same time, making a profit."

If that is indeed true, the guy is operating a business. And therefore should have a trader account


so everyone on ebay is a business are they
lol hahahahahahahaha


Look, not meaning to point out the obvious, but there's a difference between selling your stuff on ebay to get rid of junk and operating a business.

When it becomes about getting a return on an investment, then it's a business and it should be treated as such.

[90LAN]

Look, not meaning to point out the obvious, but there's a difference between selling your stuff on ebay to get rid of junk and operating a business.

When it becomes about getting a return on an investment, then it's a business and it should be treated as such.

so u think people dont want to make money on ebay
people buy stuff that is cheap and turn around and sell at a profit
its been happening for centuries mate
this is nothing new
sounds like you are jealous he is making money
and you are sitting there with the shits
just get over it mate

[Zdster]

I agree with yourfather. I think a line should be drawn particularly when people know something about a vehicle or a product for sale that the buyer is not stating.

Whilst it does place the forum at some relative risk (and I think a lawyer is the best person to provide advise here) I could see the forums being sued as allowing a seller to continue to sell goods that are being falsely advertised.

[Q_ball]

Constructive now guys... stop taking shots at each other and lets try and think of a solution to this - if there IS one.



Whilst it does place the forum at some relative risk (and I think a lawyer is the best person to provide advise here) I could see the forums being sued as allowing a seller to continue to sell goods that are being falsely advertised.

Not really, take carsales, carsguide, drive etc etc... same rules apply here.
We've openly stated that you trade at your own risk, and that us... "ozhonda" do not take responsibility for the successful purchase of the item.
As it stands, its all up to the buyer.

[yfin]

i think 90lan makes a good point, that at the end of the day it is the buyers responsibility to do their research about the vehicles, what difference does it make if it is say an ad in the trading post or ebay?

The difference is that Ozhonda is supposed to be a community of Honda enthusiasts. We should look out for each other. Members should not try to "hoodwink" other members by selling repairable write offs unless it is made clear by the seller. We shouldn't try and rip off other members, traders should be ethical in their dealings, etc. People who breach that trust should be banned forever.

Maybe I am living in a fantasy land but that is what this place should be. Once upon a time Ozhonda was closer to people helping each other. Now there are pockets of members looking to make a quick buck, unhelpful, rude, or just plain dishonest.

So in my view the moderators should do something about this. If sellers are deliberately trying to hide something as serious as a repairable writeoff status from buyers - they should be banned from the site. If a member wants to mislead other people go on ebay or trading post. We don't need it here for the reasons I have already stated.

I am with yourfather on this issue 100%

[beeza]

The difference is that Ozhonda is supposed to be a community of Honda enthusiasts. We should look out for each other. Members should not try to "hoodwink" other members by selling repairable write offs unless it is made clear by the seller. We shouldn't try and rip off other members, traders should be ethical in their dealings, etc. People who breach that trust should be banned forever.

Maybe I am living in a fantasy land but that is what this place should be. Once upon a time Ozhonda was closer to people helping each other. Now there are pockets of members looking to make a quick buck, unhelpful, rude, or just plain dishonest.

So in my view the moderators should do something about this. If sellers are deliberately trying to hide something as serious as a repairable writeoff status from buyers - they should be banned from the site. If a member wants to mislead other people go on ebay or trading post. We don't need it here for the reasons I have already stated.

I am with yourfather on this issue 100%

This is best statement so far IMHO.

Bring back 'The community' :thumbsup:

[Q_ball]

I agree totally to the above also...
However it will be a logistical nightmare as to how we go about implementing guidelines so that this "looking out for one another" works and does not turn to spam.

Ideas anyone?

[OMG.JAI xD]

The difference is that Ozhonda is supposed to be a community of Honda enthusiasts. We should look out for each other. Members should not try to "hoodwink" other members by selling repairable write offs unless it is made clear by the seller. We shouldn't try and rip off other members, traders should be ethical in their dealings, etc. People who breach that trust should be banned forever.

Maybe I am living in a fantasy land but that is what this place should be. Once upon a time Ozhonda was closer to people helping each other. Now there are pockets of members looking to make a quick buck, unhelpful, rude, or just plain dishonest.

So in my view the moderators should do something about this. If sellers are deliberately trying to hide something as serious as a repairable writeoff status from buyers - they should be banned from the site. If a member wants to mislead other people go on ebay or trading post. We don't need it here for the reasons I have already stated.



Thing is he/she isnt hiding the fact that the car is a repairable write off.
It clearly states its unregistered and was a repaired car.
And the point ive been trying to make is that there is no harm in this.
Because he stated what he was selling, the buyer should be well aware of it.

At first it wasnt stated. until a member replied on the thread stating that it showed as repairable write off on REVS.
Then the OP edited his/her post stating the encumbrances.
It was just a mistake of not putting "the car is a repairable write off" in the description.
The seller is not trying to con someone to buy a lemon.
And that was another point i made. Is that this person couldve easily gotten a dodgey blue slip (if the work done to the car was not sufficient) and sold the car as a registered car. And some unlucky buyer gets too excited and does not check REVS and buys a lemon.
The seller chose NOT to go down that path and sold the car AS IS. Which gave buyers the chance to raise suspicion as to why it is not registered.

If anything in my opinion the seller is not doing something wrong but rather doing the right thing in regards to selling the vehicle.

Last point that was made was the fact that ozhonda clearly stated that it has no responsibility for each and every sale.
Ive said it before Ill say it again. Its your choice.
Sellers post new threads to give you an insight of what items or vehicles are available. Its your choice to purchase or not.

[ek4-guy]

The difference is that Ozhonda is supposed to be a community of Honda enthusiasts. We should look out for each other. Members should not try to "hoodwink" other members by selling repairable write offs unless it is made clear by the seller. We shouldn't try and rip off other members, traders should be ethical in their dealings, etc. People who breach that trust should be banned forever.

Maybe I am living in a fantasy land but that is what this place should be. Once upon a time Ozhonda was closer to people helping each other. Now there are pockets of members looking to make a quick buck, unhelpful, rude, or just plain dishonest.

So in my view the moderators should do something about this. If sellers are deliberately trying to hide something as serious as a repairable writeoff status from buyers - they should be banned from the site. If a member wants to mislead other people go on ebay or trading post. We don't need it here for the reasons I have already stated.

I am with yourfather on this issue 100%

but yourfather started this thread with having this person pay for a trader account as the intention not to stop them selling dodgy cars

sure the subject of not being able to sell dodgy cars eventually came up but that wasn't the original intention

[beeza]

How about all issues like this be PM'ed to Q ball :)

[OMG.JAI xD]

I agree totally to the above also...
However it will be a logistical nightmare as to how we go about implementing guidelines so that this "looking out for one another" works and does not turn to spam.

Ideas anyone?

How bout make a requirement that VIN and Engine numbers are provided.
Plate numbers to PM.

Put up a sticky for a guideline to REVS and RTA vehicle check.
(RTA vehicle check requires an account, no password however. sign up with your license).
Rta vehicle check gives the information if the vehicle is on a repairable write off list or stolen list.
How many owners.
The insurers that it is insured under.
The engine number registered to that chassis.
And how many names the car is registered under.

Its not hard. I can arrange screenshots and step by step guidelines if need be.

[Q_ball]

How about all issues like this be PM'ed to Q ball :)

^ Umm, how about no... lol
Brainstorm in here thanks :)

[Q_ball]

How bout make a requirement that VIN and Engine numbers are provided.
Plate numbers to PM.

Put up a sticky for a guideline to REVS and RTA vehicle check.
(RTA vehicle check requires an account, no password however. sign up with your license).
Rta vehicle check gives the information if the vehicle is on a repairable write off list or stolen list.
How many owners.
The insurers that it is insured under.
The engine number registered to that chassis.
And how many names the car is registered under.

Its not hard. I can arrange screenshots and step by step guidelines if need be.

Thats a good start...
What does everyone else think?

[ek4-guy]

Thats a good start...
What does everyone else think?

i've already sugested making a sticky on how buyers can protect themselves multiple times :thumbsup:

[beeza]

Thing is he/she isnt hiding the fact that the car is a repairable write off.
It clearly states its unregistered and was a repaired car.
And the point ive been trying to make is that there is no harm in this.
Because he stated what he was selling, the buyer should be well aware of it.

At first it wasnt stated. until a member replied on the thread stating that it showed as repairable write off on REVS.
Then the OP edited his/her post stating the encumbrances.
It was just a mistake of not putting "the car is a repairable write off" in the description.
The seller is not trying to con someone to buy a lemon.
And that was another point i made. Is that this person couldve easily gotten a dodgey blue slip (if the work done to the car was not sufficient) and sold the car as a registered car. And some unlucky buyer gets too excited and does not check REVS and buys a lemon.
The seller chose NOT to go down that path and sold the car AS IS. Which gave buyers the chance to raise suspicion as to why it is not registered.

If anything in my opinion the seller is not doing something wrong but rather doing the right thing in regards to selling the vehicle.

Last point that was made was the fact that ozhonda clearly stated that it has no responsibility for each and every sale.
Ive said it before Ill say it again. Its your choice.
Sellers post new threads to give you an insight of what items or vehicles are available. Its your choice to purchase or not.

Now that he has stated 'The car is a repairable write off' then he's being honest so there should be no problem.
If he wants to go to all the effort required to repair a write off and sell it then good on him :thumbsup:

There's A LOT of money out there to be made if your keen and he obviously is so GOOD ON HIM!

[yfin]

if he is doing it to make a profit he needs to become a trader.

[OMG.JAI xD]

Thats a good start...
What does everyone else think?

Pm me if you need it started.
Ill post a new thread etc and pm you back when its done.

Now, lets stop this debate and try think of a solution.
There will be no winner, right or wrong in the end.
Ozhonda is a community. and like other communities, none of them are perfect.
We can only do so much to make this forum much more enjoyable and helpful.
But i assure you, the help you get here, is unbelievable.
Reading thru all the technical posts and DIY I gurantee youll atleast find something that you didnt know about.

Its free to sign up. So youre getting free help and free listings to items and/or cars for sale.
In the real world, the saying goes. "You get what you paid for".
In this case. nothing.
We can only appreciate what we have here.


i've already sugested making a sticky on how buyers can protect themselves multiple times :thumbsup:

Yes you did think of it.
Credit goes to you. I just suggested what should be in the sticky =]

[Q_ball]

if he is doing it to make a profit he needs to become a trader.

Here's the prob,
ALOT of members sell for profit on these forums.
Its very very hard to draw the line.

[OMG.JAI xD]

if he is doing it to make a profit he needs to become a trader.

Read back to 90lan's posts.
There is a requirement for an individual to be considered a trader or dealer for selling vehicles.

There is no case against this seller.

End the debate.
Brainstorm ideas to prevent or protect our users from falling to these situations.

[ek4-guy]

if he is doing it to make a profit he needs to become a trader.

thats just the guy that yourfather was speaking of

there is now a bigger issue about how we protect buyers as we can't know if others are making a profit or not

[ek4-guy]

Read back to 90lan's posts.
There is a requirement for an individual to be considered a trader or dealer for selling vehicles.

There is no case against this seller.

End the debate.
Brainstorm ideas to prevent or protect our users from falling to these situations.

great minds think alike lol :thumbsup:

[beeza]

I would hate to be doing what he's doing.
1. Repairing 'repairable write offs'
2. Dealing with any reprocussions - The whole of OzHonda will know about anything shonky in a second and his little money maker will be gone.

So I say let him do what he's doing at his risk.He does not need to become a trader UNLESS he starts to piss off the traders then the issue should be re-examined.

[ek4-guy]

I would hate to be doing what he's doing.
1. Repairing 'repairable write offs'
2. Dealing with any reprocussions - The whole of OzHonda will know about anything shonky in a second and his little money maker will be gone.

So I say let him do what he's doing at his risk.He does not need to become a trader UNLESS he starts to piss off the traders then the issue should be re-examined.

i agree

also how do we know he's making profit after he's labour is added

everyone else here makes a wage and then pays for their cars so when they sell their car should we call it profit

maybe this is how this guy makes a wage

where is the line between profit and earning a living

[beeza]

i agree

also how do we know he's making profit after he's labour is added

everyone else here makes a wage and then pays for their cars so when they sell their car should we call it profit

maybe this is how this guy makes a wage

where is the line between profit and earning a living

Damn strait!

We should be shaking his hand and saying 'Good on U for keeping the Honda's alive' :D

Remember when life was like this.U could make a buck doing odd things.Look at how 'tight' things are now.All the legalities etc.It's bullshit!

[power_of_dreams]

who care's if he's making profit.

That shouldn't be a major factor in the buying process, if you are happy to buy at a particular price, repairable write off or not.

As for people making profit on items needing a trading account, good luck with that. What if it is one item? How are you going to determine if they are even making profit?

[bennjamin]

I think , find out the maximum sales per annum , stated by the ATO that is NOT regarded as income and sit that as a cap for all members. Ofcourse implement a rule in the T+C

For example , if you can only sell 2 cars per annum to the maximum of say $10,000 , then thats all you can sell privately on ozhonda.

[bennjamin]

btw alot of cars repaired this way , are NOT deemed repairable write offs or write offs - they are simply crashed and repaired privately and never reported.

As always ,, BUYER BEWARE

http://www.revs.nsw.gov.au/

[Zdster]

I think people in this thread are getting confused. There are two issues as I see it.

1. The first is the safety of the vehicles that he is selling. Are they safe? Do we as a community need to make others in the community aware of such ventures when we have knowledge of them?

2. Should an individual be required to become a trader if they are selling multiple vehicles? This relates to the issue of profit, number of vehicles sold etc etc. I think people are also getting a little confused. What is the difference between making a profit and making a living? Nothing - they are one and the same thing. Should he be applauded for having a unique business idea? Maybe - but part of his costs in my opinion should relate to being a trader.

[XP02ED]

genuine question, if this is the case shouldnt people making money from installations etc sign up for a trader account too. or is that different? :S

[Zdster]

genuine question, if this is the case shouldnt people making money from installations etc sign up for a trader account too. or is that different? :S

Goods vs Services. Bit different I guess, but I would assume that if you were running a service centre as an example and you were advertising your services then you probably would become a trader.

[XP02ED]

yeh i can see goods vs service, in theory wouldnt buying a car, fixing it up re-registering etc or what not still considered as a service which they are entitled to there work?

[yourfather]

no, because at the end of the day, ownership of an item passes from a to b

[XP02ED]

for example users selling enging packages + installation.

item is being passed from a to b, assume the item wasn't sold for profit. Charging for installation as they do this all the time or know how to do it. this is profit right for a service..

so its the same thing in my eyes.

[Zdster]

for example users selling enging packages + installation.

item is being passed from a to b, assume the item wasn't sold for profit. Charging for installation as they do this all the time or know how to do it. this is profit right for a service..

so its the same thing in my eyes.

Yes, but this is usually a one of service. Those that are selling big quantities and installing them are traders (ie AkMotorworks etc).

[Q_ball]

Do you guys see why the forum likes to keep out of such things?
Look at the the last few points in this thread, one thing leads to another.
This is a free site.
Some of you are simply asking for TOO MUCH!
We dont get paid to do shit here.
You trade/buy on a free site, you have to accept some of the responsibility.

I agree there is probably more that Ozhonda can do for the community, but keep it real.
There's no fckn way we're gonna sit there and "assess" what is safe, who is trading for profit.

Agree with bennjamin, we agree on a limit of cars a member can sell on the forum, and leave it at that.
We can also update the FS templates to include details such as repaired write off etc.

[XP02ED]

i dont see an issue if in NSW he has owned that many cars legally why cant he sell them?

same fact, why do so some people get so many engines and sell, installation or not..

[yourfather]

ok, impose a limit on the amount of cars a user can sell per calendar year - if they wish to sell more they require a trader account.

same goes with engines?

[XP02ED]

ok, impose a limit on the amount of cars a user can sell per calendar year - if they wish to sell more they require a trader account.

Same goes with engines?

agreed

[Q_ball]

Engines are classed as parts, lets keep this one strictly to cars.

If we dwell into parts, the age old discussion of "who's selling for profit/who's selling in commercial numbers" etc is going to come up again... and tbh, there's no way for us to successfully identify that forum wide.
It would all be on word of mouth from other members which is hardly reliable or fair.

[power_of_dreams]

I think people in this thread are getting confused. There are two issues as I see it.

1. The first is the safety of the vehicles that he is selling. Are they safe? Do we as a community need to make others in the community aware of such ventures when we have knowledge of them?

2. Should an individual be required to become a trader if they are selling multiple vehicles? This relates to the issue of profit, number of vehicles sold etc etc. I think people are also getting a little confused. What is the difference between making a profit and making a living? Nothing - they are one and the same thing. Should he be applauded for having a unique business idea? Maybe - but part of his costs in my opinion should relate to being a trader.

1. It is in the buyers intrests to check themselves, however I think that if we know something is dodgy we should speak up.

2. Making a profit from the sale of two cars is hardly considered as making a living. It might be something they do on the side. Again, the rules set by the ATO are already in place to stop people from making a living without having an trading licence. Off the top of my head, you are allowed to trade something like 6 cars a year without needing a trading licence (somebody clarify if they want)? We should go off what the ATO has in place.

[yourfather]

he has sold more than two cars

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=104847
Two Civics

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101668
Civic (removed from sale)

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98179
Accord Euro

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96442
Another civic

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92273
Accord Euro


http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=101637
- B18C Gearbox
- Hasport EKK1 k-swap mounts
- JDM DC5R PRC ECU
- Custom made Titanium Extractors EK-K-swap
- K20A3 Complete Engine
- K24A3 Bottem End
- Ek 99-00 Rear Bar
- DC5 Taillights
- DC5 Cluster
- JDM K20A Head
- OEM EK1 Tailights
- Ek 96-98 Front bar
- Ek1 Steering wheel
- EJ8 Front BAR
- DC2R Black Carpet

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96439
K20 motor


And you tell me this guy is just hobbying?

[power_of_dreams]

I would say it's more likely he is selling on behalf of others.

[yourfather]

no, he fixes repairable write offs.

read the thread before u post mam

[power_of_dreams]

At least one of the Euro's is listed as:
Never been damaged or repaired

[yourfather]

congratulations for finally reading

[power_of_dreams]

Where is the proof that that exact Accord Euro was a repairable write off? I think it's important you don't jump to conclusions.

Again, as I said before, it is in the buyers interest to do the checks. He doesn't legally have to say they are repairable write offs. It might be underhanded, but it's not illegal. As long as he is trading under 7 cars an annum, he is not breaching any ATO rules. Those rules are there to ensure people are not making a living from car trading without a licence. There are already rules in place, any further restrictions are excessive in my opinion.

[yourfather]

listen dumbshit, In my first post I said theres nothing wrong with repairable writeoffs being sold, but he should have a trader account.


You said he is selling on behalf of others, which is wrong. You then point out that one of the six vehicles that are for sale are on a novated lease, that is true.

I dont care if the cars are repairable write offs, I said that in my first post, I said that if you are selling cars in this volume you are operating as a trader and therefore should have a trader account.

[power_of_dreams]

What about blokes that sell 20 items in parts for sale?
Do they need a trading account as well?

One rule for him, another rule for the others.
It makes no sense.

[yourfather]

are you really this stupid?

[power_of_dreams]

please explain further.

what is the difference between selling 20 items and 6 cars?

[yourfather]

ok, how many cars have you sold in your short lifetime

[power_of_dreams]

I have sold zero cars.

[yourfather]

so do you think it is common behaviour for someone with a full time job and a lease car to be selling 5-6 cars on a make specific forum. no

the issue isnt whether or not the guy is selling, its the volume and the value of the items, and whether or not the selling is intended to make a profit.

i can understand people selling shit or parting cars out, but when you put your cash out, go buy like 10 sets of coilovers and sell them here one by one, its a trader thing.

look at the threads, there is no common theme, all the posts are about selling stuff and no contribution to the community or whatever.

buying a car from japan and taking out the motor and then selling the rest of the parts, you're just recouping costs and selling other items. buy 10 cars and it's different.

but the dudes primary business is to make money off the members and extract a profit. and also originally he neglected to tell us that the cars he was selling were repairable writeoffs.

thats where the issue is and thats why he needs a trader account.

[ek4-guy]

when did you get back yourfather you just couldn't stay away hey

[power_of_dreams]

No, I do not think it is common behavior for someone with a full time job to be selling 5-6 cars.

Yes, there is a high chance he is making profit, but is that important? How are you going to prove he is making profit? I would say there are a fair few people making profit in parts for sale via trading, but will their motives or actions ever be questioned? No, because nobody even notices.

Legally, what this guy is doing is ok. The question now for the moderators is whether they will allow any sort of "profit making" to occur without a traders account. If this is the case, I feel strongly that they should ensure "profit making" does not occur on individual parts as well. This of course, is going to be near impossible.

You cannot say this guy needs a traders account because he is making a profit of $x, whilst somebody else is free to do as they please without a traders account because they are making a profit less than $x. It should be one rule for all.

If there is a market for this guy, and people on this forum are willing to purchase the cars he has for sale, why not let it go?

Ultimately I do not have a problem with this unless it is a breach of the ATO regulations. This of course is a matter for the mods to decide on.

[wynode]

Wow long thread in a few days. ANyways....I've read part of the thread this morning and seems the issues that have come up are:

1) User is selling on a commercial basis
2) User is misleading members/selling cars that have been repaired following a write-off.

As I've said before neither Ozhonda nor the moderators will get involved in a sale/potential sale. We will however ban any users that are either taking advantage of other members or taking advantage of the site (ie free commercial trading).

In regards to educating buyers if someone is happy to post up some links/info about what car buyers should look for, then I'm willing to integrate that into the Cars For Sale announcements. Someone got any suggestions from what should go there? (Ie link to REVS website).


1. It is in the buyers intrests to check themselves, however I think that if we know something is dodgy we should speak up.


Agreed. And that is what we are doing here I take it?


i've already sugested making a sticky on how buyers can protect themselves multiple times :thumbsup:

*sigh* I wish you would read the announcement (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/announcement.php?f=11&a=10)at the top of the Marketplace forum which has been there since 2005. /*sigh*

[90LAN]

for qld cars

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home/Registration/Motor_vehicles/Buying_or_selling_a_used_vehicle/

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home/Registration/Motor_vehicles/Written_off_vehicle/

[ek4-guy]

My original sugestion was more related to the parts forsale thread and obtaining reciepts

This was a concern of mine after a member told me I couldn't get a receipt because it was "a quick sale type thing"

You can decide for yourself what that means

What I gatherd is that there are some suspicious members on OZHonda and not all the parts sold may be legitimately obtained by the seller


I did in haste add add the idea of a sticky on how buyers can protect themselves to my sugestion

But my original sugestion still stands I think it should be made mandatory to supply reciepts with sold goods and to enforce this something like restricted selling after x amount of complaints

[ek4-guy]

when did you get back yourfather you just couldn't stay away hey

oh and yourfather if you didn't like my above post you should have reported the post not given neg rep :wave:

it's all good thoe feel free to neg rep me again for this post i don't value the system is to many people can't use it properly

[power_of_dreams]

As I've said before neither Ozhonda nor the moderators will get involved in a sale/potential sale. We will however ban any users that are either taking advantage of other members or taking advantage of the site (ie free commercial trading).

I think it would be helpful/beneficial if you defined "commercial trading". Do you go by ozhonda rules, ato rules, etc?

[wynode]

My original sugestion was more related to the parts forsale thread and obtaining reciepts

This was a concern of mine after a member told me I couldn't get a receipt because it was "a quick sale type thing"

You can decide for yourself what that means

What I gatherd is that there are some suspicious members on OZHonda and not all the parts sold may be legitimately obtained by the seller


I did in haste add add the idea of a sticky on how buyers can protect themselves to my sugestion

But my original sugestion still stands I think it should be made mandatory to supply reciepts with sold goods and to enforce this something like restricted selling after x amount of complaints

Requesting a receipt will be up to the buyer. If he/she cannot be provided with a receipt then it is up to him/her not to go ahead with the sale. I have purchased items over the internet for around 5 years now and I honestly don't see either myself giving a buyer a receipt or requesting one from a seller.


for qld cars

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home/Registration/Motor_vehicles/Buying_or_selling_a_used_vehicle/

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home/Registration/Motor_vehicles/Written_off_vehicle/

Thanks I will setup/update the sticky.


oh and yourfather if you didn't like my above post you should have reported the post not given neg rep :wave:

it's all good thoe feel free to neg rep me again for this post i don't value the system is to many people can't use it properly

Dealt with.


I think it would be helpful/beneficial if you defined "commercial trading". Do you go by ozhonda rules, ato rules, etc?

OH rules...we are quite lenient however if the same user is selling multiple items or repeatedly making posts in the for sale forum over a short period of time we will take note.

[wynode]

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2107743#post2107743

Thread stickied in the Cars For Sale forum. Please reply back here with addtional information as there is nothing on the other states yet.

[cymax]

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2107743#post2107743

Thread stickied in the Cars For Sale forum. Please reply back here with addtional information as there is nothing on the other states yet.

Hey Boss,

This is for Vicroad.

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/BuyingSelling/CheckVehicleDetailsBeforePurchase.htm

Know a bit here and there about stuff over at vicroad as I got my car from there and did the whole process on registering the car from Vic -> NSW.

:)

Hope this helps.

[Q_ball]

^ thanks cymax, sticky updated.

[EK1.6LCIV]

you can sell as many as u want in a yr, as long as they arent regoed...

regoed cars is 7 tho

my mate was forced to get a licence, not all that involved and gets u out of a nice fine...

[zco]

maybe you guys can make a for sale template.
Car:
VIN:
Rego:
REVS: YES/NO ? http://www.revs.nsw.gov.au/

just an idea.. not many ppl read stickies ? lol

[bennjamin]

good idea - its apparent with the noob forum and site discussion that NO ONE reads stickys lol.

[95civic]

maybe you guys can make a for sale template.
Car:
VIN:
Rego:
REVS: YES/NO ? http://www.revs.nsw.gov.au/

just an idea.. not many ppl read stickies ? lol


I think it would be a great idea to have this template set up so when you go to start a new thread to sell a car you must complete all sections.

[TECDUP]

I think it would be a great idea to have this template set up so when you go to start a new thread to sell a car you must complete all sections.

agree! :thumbsup:

[bennjamin]

i do not think any member should HAVE to show VIN/REGO on a online website.
Why ? Privacy. Anyone can find REGO and VIN etc , and possibly use the details for illegal reasons or theft etc. Its up to YOU as the interested party to contact the seller and organize all REVs checks etc.

[zco]

well at least have it there ?.. the seller doesnt have to fill out the information. but if they dont, then its suss.

they can write
VIN: please ask
Rego: please ask

LOL

[bennjamin]

If its optional there is no point having it as a template. The template is there , to be used otherwise it will be removed. You , as the seller can add more info as you feel fit.
Just "pm for details" is enough. As suggested , we can have stickies and links to REVS etc , its the end user to make sure they do everything right and make sure a car is fine.

[power_of_dreams]

slightly off topic,
how long should we wait for a response regarding reported posts?

[bennjamin]

very off topic.
Id wait a day then pm the next mod you see online about it.

[90LAN]

im selling my car for profit now this is my 1st for the year
if i sell another one this year will that be classed as being a trader?

[bennjamin]

If its your car in your name ,No.

[90LAN]

If its your car in your name ,No.

sweet thanks

[tiksie]

maybe you guys can make a for sale template.
Car:
VIN:
Rego:
REVS: YES/NO ? http://www.revs.nsw.gov.au/

just an idea.. not many ppl read stickies ? lol

This would be a great idea.. Well, just the REVS bit would be good for people that don't want to show other details.

I asked for details as such for a car I brought off here off a member last year, he said that he couldn't find the papers to run the REVS check but promised that the car had never been in a accident and nothing was wrong with it.. Went and checked it out and looked abit sus here and there but the way he explained things seemed so promising and so honest..

Anyway, had the car for about a week or two when all these problems started occuring then ended up taking it to a mechanic to check the under carriage and what not and wasn't surprised when I seen that the chassis was bent and the car had been in a front ender.. Which was only noticeable from the bottom of the car.. But nothing on REVS! So it had been a dodgy repair..

Feel free to PM me as I think my post will be altered if I mention his username in this post.

Cheers,
Aytac

[bennjamin]

real life experience above.
What you purchased , is a non-listed write off. It happens when someone crashes and repairs the car privately.

[tiksie]

Yes I understand that Ben.

I just went by what the member said and took his word for it even though it looked all good when I asked a few questions about here and there, he just said ''X is like this and X is like that so it's all normal and fine''.

Guess you can't trust everyone no matter how honest they seem!!

[bennjamin]

Guess you can't trust everyone no matter how honest they seem!!


exactly. thats why we have templates and stickies for everyone to use , at your own discretion and risk. You have to be careful and check over a possible purchase - because 9 times out of 10 a car or item is sold as is and if something is wrong legally you cant do a thing about it.

[tiksie]

Yeah, only thing I could do is remove my positive feedback!