Spark plugs flooded

[g_kn]

Update:
Noticed that all the spark plugs were wet with fuel , we pulled em out, cleaned them and restarted the engine.. same problem happened, all spark plugs were drenched.
he checked distributor is working fine, fuel is pumping and injectors show pulse.
Im pretty sure the engine is flooded with fuel as you can smell the raw fuel on all 4 of the spark plugs.
Car still wont start any idea?

[02gzm]

Check your igniter (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56224) and leads (25,000 ohms max @ 20degrees C, assuming it's a civic).

Also is your fuel pump priming when you turn the key to on?

[g_kn]

Check your igniter (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56224) and leads (25,000 ohms max @ 20degrees C).

Also is your fuel pump priming when you turn the key to on?

Yeps its priming.

[beeza]

Bump!

Can anyone help this fella out.

What happens when U turn the key,anything?

[g_kn]

Just keeps cranking ... cant get it to start.

[02gzm]

Going off what you said in the first post I still reckon the best bet is to check the igniter since theres no voltage coming out of the dizzy.
Is the CEL giving any codes?

What car is it btw?

[g_kn]

Going off what you said in the first post I still reckon the best bet is to check the igniter since theres no voltage coming out of the dizzy.
Is the CEL giving any codes?

What car is it btw?



No codes came up.
DC2.

[02gzm]

I cant be bothered goin throught the Integra manual myself but check this page (http://www.redpepperracing.com/technical/main.php) about half way down for the teg manual. Should be helpful.

Checking the igniter should only take you 15min if you already know how to pull the dizzy to bits too.

[beeza]

Bump!

[g_kn]

updated

[beeza]

It's just hard things like this,not having the car here...

It may be an almost flat battery i.e not enough charge to crank over,so try jump starting it with another car 1st forsure.

May have to get the Lube mobile guy back out if that doesn't work.

[ECU-MAN]

your ICM is shagged

[beeza]

Bloody Legend!!!!

P.S. I did think of that... :)

I should have known cause it's happened to me!!!!

[g_kn]

Bloody Legend!!!!

P.S. I did think of that... :)

I should have known cause it's happened to me!!!!

I changed the ICM with another distributor and im getting a high voltage reading coming out of the cap.

There is also now a sign of a strong spark coming out of the Spark plugs.

but It still wont start.

[beeza]

The Ignition Control Module is a part inside the dizzy,did U change that or the coil or the whole dizzy?

[beeza]

Check your igniter (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56224) and leads (25,000 ohms max @ 20degrees C, assuming it's a civic).

Also is your fuel pump priming when you turn the key to on?

Just noticed,you said that :D

[g_kn]

The Ignition Control Module is a part inside the dizzy,did U change that or the coil or the whole dizzy?

I changed the Ignition coil with a brand new one and now im getting a strong spark.

I also changed the module with another one lieing around in the garage and still no go.

The car is cranking now but wont start.

[beeza]

Is the ICM that you swapped in,in good working order? May have to try a new one.

[g_kn]

Is the ICM that you swapped in,in good working order? May have to try a new one.


At least ive got spark now coming out of the dizzy to the spark plugs , so thats a good sign.

Will try getting a hold of a new ICM .. ive got 2 used ICM, switched both and still wont start but dont know if they work.

Anymore idea?
cheers mate

[beeza]

I would try a new ICM,then go from there.You can buy them seperately,no need to buy a whole dizzy like I did :)

Someone on here should have one.'dsp26' may have one or know where to get one,give him a PM if needed.

Chances are it's going to be the ICM from how it's looking.

And your welcome!

[g_kn]

I would try a new ICM,then go from there.You can buy them seperately,no need to buy a whole dizzy like I did :)

Someone on here should have one.'dsp26' may have one or know where to get one,give him a PM if needed.

Chances are it's going to be the ICM from how it's looking.

And your welcome!


just gave dsp26 a PM just then.. ill get back to you and let you know what happens

[beeza]

No probs mate.

[dsp26]

pm replied....

but now that ive come across this thread, i strongly suggest you borrow an icm from someone local before committing to the purchase since you already have 2 spare....

itś like 30min swap in / swap out test

but since your getting spark now there might be something else.
- a completely shagged icm won spark at all
- a semi-shagged icm will have intermittent spark but will be able to run the engine even with misfires

[g_kn]

pm replied....

but now that ive come across this thread, i strongly suggest you borrow an icm from someone local before committing to the purchase since you already have 2 spare....

itś like 30min swap in / swap out test

but since your getting spark now there might be something else.
- a completely shagged icm won spark at all
- a semi-shagged icm will have intermittent spark but will be able to run the engine even with misfires


thanks for the info... im out of ideas now.
Bump anyone?

[g_kn]

Update:

changed the Ignition coil with a brand new one and now im getting a strong spark from the Spark plug end , so thats a good sign.

I also changed the module with another one lying around in the garage and still no go.

there is fuel as well

Changed Distributor cap, rotor button and spark plugs.

The car is cranking but wont start.

[02gzm]

Just noticed,you said that :D

I know all about the fun a failing ICM can bring :P

To the OP: Check your battery and wiring. You may have discharged it or knocked a plug out somewhere while you had the problems.

[beeza]

I know all about the fun a failing ICM can bring :P

Yeah,ditto :car:

[g_kn]

Out of ideas

[beeza]

Well,swap in another known working ICM first then go from there.That's your best bet.

[g_kn]

Well,swap in another known working ICM first then go from there.That's your best bet.


What exactly does the ICM do ?
i get a strong spark though all the way down to the Spark plugs, shouldnt that start up the engine?
can also hear the fuel priming when i switch on the key to Reds &
Timing belt looks fine.

[beeza]

When my ICM went,I too had a strong spark at the plugs.

http://autorepair.about.com/od/glossary/ss/igntn-sys_descr.htm

"In the old days, a distributor relied on a lot of its own "mechanical intuition" to keep the spark timed perfectly. It did this through a setup called a points-and-condenser system. Ignition points were set to a specific gap that created optimum spark while the condenser regulated.
These days this is all handled by computers. The computer that directly regulates your ignition system is called the ignition module, or ignition control module. There is no maintenance or repair procedure for the module, other than replacement."


Frustrating isn't it...

I got towed too my mechanics when mine went.It was there for 2 weeks before he worked the problem out...

[g_kn]

It controls where the spark goes,so you get the spark at the right place at the right time.

http://autorepair.about.com/od/glossary/ss/igntn-sys_descr.htm

When my ICM went,I too had a strong spark at the plugs.

EDIT:

"In the old days, a distributor relied on a lot of its own "mechanical intuition" to keep the spark timed perfectly. It did this through a setup called a points-and-condenser system. Ignition points were set to a specific gap that created optimum spark while the condenser regulated.
These days this is all handled by computers. The computer that directly regulates your ignition system is called the ignition module, or ignition control module. There is no maintenance or repair procedure for the module, other than replacement."

Will look for an ICM.. thanks

[beeza]

Cool as.I changed my post cause it wasn't exactly right.

So it "keep the spark timed perfectly" - it's a mini computer :)

[02gzm]

Im not 100% sure if it makes a difference but ICM's come either black or brown depending on what series engine it's from. So if you're going to replace it you may want to try to get the same type.

Have you checked the resistance on each of the terminals on the ICM yet from the test i posted on the first page?

[g_kn]

Im not 100% sure if it makes a difference but ICM's come either black or brown depending on what series engine it's from. So if you're going to replace it you may want to try to get the same type.

Have you checked the resistance on each of the terminals on the ICM yet from the test i posted on the first page?

Update:

NRMA checked it and said it could possibly be an ECU problem, he noticed that all the spark plugs were wet with fuel , we pulled em out, cleaned them and restarted the engine.. same problem happened, all spark plugs were drenched.
he checked distributor is working fine, fuel is pumping and injectors show pulse.

[ECU-MAN]

change your spark plugs

[Bludger]

did you change your timing at all??

try retarding the timing a bit.

sounds obviously simple but it just might be the case.

[g_kn]

did you change your timing at all??

try retarding the timing a bit.

sounds obviously simple but it just might be the case.

Yeah, tryd retarding the timing & no luck

[g_kn]

change your spark plugs

Tryd changing the Spark plugs as well... still wont start up

[g_kn]

Sound like an ECU problem ?

Im gonna swap a mates ECU on my car and see if that works.
his car is a 97 model Facelifted vti-r and mine is a 95 Pre-facelift vti-r , just wondering if its safe & straight swap plug and play with the ecu ?

[Bludger]

should be ok.

imo.

[g_kn]

Pretty sure the problem is that the cars engine is Flooded with petrol.

[g_kn]

bump.

[bennjamin]

tried another dizzy yet ?
Tried to push start the car ? Might force it into life.

[g_kn]

tried another dizzy yet ?
Tried to push start the car ? Might force it into life.

I havent got a hold of another dizzy yet, but the Distirbutor is working as there is strong voltage and spark coming out of the Coil and through to the spark plugs.
Im pretty sure the engine is flooded with fuel as you can smell it on the spark plugs and appears to be alot on them.

Going to send it off to the mechanics tomorrow.

[bennjamin]

sounds similar to a old problem i had....as i told you before all teh things to check via our pm - my old civic went the exact same way. ICM and coil both replaced , car simply wouldnt start.
It ended up being a combination of new spark plugs , vented engine (was flooded) and retarding the timing and eventually she choked into life. WOT ( wide open throttle) is important to use too !

[bennjamin]

also remember to be careful of the coil , it can easily fry with repeated starting.

[02gzm]

I havent got a hold of another dizzy yet, but the Distirbutor is working as there is strong voltage and spark coming out of the Coil and through to the spark plugs.
Im pretty sure the engine is flooded with fuel as you can smell it on the spark plugs and appears to be alot on them.

Going to send it off to the mechanics tomorrow.

Yep sounds like it's flooded with fuel and locking up. If you can get hold of a large fluid dropper or syringe you might be able to get most of it out. Then try ben's method of WOT

[g_kn]

Yep sounds like it's flooded with fuel and locking up. If you can get hold of a large fluid dropper or syringe you might be able to get most of it out. Then try ben's method of WOT

If i was to use a large syringe , would i insert it down through where the spark plugs sit ?

If all that fails ill try Bens method out, ive tryd the WOT but only for a few seconds and still wont start, will give it another shot tomorrow.

[g_kn]

sounds similar to a old problem i had....as i told you before all teh things to check via our pm - my old civic went the exact same way. ICM and coil both replaced , car simply wouldnt start.
It ended up being a combination of new spark plugs , vented engine (was flooded) and retarding the timing and eventually she choked into life. WOT ( wide open throttle) is important to use too !

Thanks for the help dude, will give it a shot tomorrow.
How long did this cranking take while at WOT till the car started ?
cheers

[bennjamin]

quite abit. i actually did it somuch that the coil burned out again lol. So be careful.
if its going to start it will chug abit ( sound like it kinda started) so if you hear it chug chug , keep your foot down and keep the starter going....hopefully it will chug in to life.

leave your engine overnight with spark plugs out for the fuel to evaporate too
chuck in some new or cleaned spark plugs too.
check fuel check spark...then try again 2mrw

[g_kn]

quite abit. i actually did it somuch that the coil burned out again lol. So be careful.
if its going to start it will chug abit ( sound like it kinda started) so if you hear it chug chug , keep your foot down and keep the starter going....hopefully it will chug in to life.

leave your engine overnight with spark plugs out for the fuel to evaporate too
chuck in some new or cleaned spark plugs too.
check fuel check spark...then try again 2mrw

Will let you know what happens tomorrow.
Hope she starts up, this car is giving me a headache

[TODA AU]

Make sure the battery is at full charge before doing anything,
Low voltage will cause issues of it's own.

I've gotta agree with Ben, you've got fuel & you've got spark...
So bin the fouled plugs & get a set of PFR5B-11's (cheapies)
If you don't want to wait overnight,
Disconnect the dissy (loom plug), pull the spark plugs out (going to the bin)
Apply full throttle & crank the motor over on the starter to clear the flood...
Do this 3 or 4 time for 10sec or so 30sec appart.
Fit the new plugs, re connect dissy etc....
Apply full throttle & a quick spray of "start ya bastard" into the throttle...
(Intake pipe removed so you can)
Maintaining full throttle, try starting it.
If it's going to run it'll cough to life pretty quickly on that shit.
Once running, re fit correct heat range plugs & set ignition timing.

Maybe do a compression test too so you're not wasting your time.

[beeza]

Oh U Crack me up!!! :) :) :)

Great info,cheers Adrian!


sounds similar to a old problem i had....as i told you before all teh things to check via our pm - my old civic went the exact same way. ICM and coil both replaced , car simply wouldnt start.
It ended up being a combination of new spark plugs , vented engine (was flooded) and retarding the timing and eventually she choked into life. WOT ( wide open throttle) is important to use too !

Same problem I had!! Once the ICM went,it one thing after the other.

That was frustratingly good learning :D

[g_kn]

Make sure the battery is at full charge before doing anything,
Low voltage will cause issues of it's own.

I've gotta agree with Ben, you've got fuel & you've got spark...
So bin the fouled plugs & get a set of PFR5B-11's (cheapies)
If you don't want to wait overnight,
Disconnect the dissy (loom plug), pull the spark plugs out (going to the bin)
Apply full throttle & crank the motor over on the starter to clear the flood...
Do this 3 or 4 time for 10sec or so 30sec appart.
Fit the new plugs, re connect dissy etc....
Apply full throttle & a quick spray of "start ya bastard" into the throttle...
(Intake pipe removed so you can)
Maintaining full throttle, try starting it.
If it's going to run it'll cough to life pretty quickly on that shit.
Once running, re fit correct heat range plugs & set ignition timing.

Maybe do a compression test too so you're not wasting your time.

Will give this a try now...
going to buy a set of sparkplugs first, while waiting for the battery to full charge.

"Disconnect the dissy (loom plug)" - Do i remove the smaller plug or the bigger plug or do i jus pull out both?

When clearing out the flood can i disconnect the plugs attached to the fuel injectors to prevent more flooding ?

[g_kn]

Still no go, will fire once or twice but still not starting have repeated above steps many no. of times.

[bennjamin]

heres a thought im sure you have thought of this , but are your spark plug leads on the CORRECT location on the dizzy? firing order maybe out of whack if it is , it will never start.


http://img18.exs.cx/img18/7701/b16firingorder2.jpg

[g_kn]

heres a thought im sure you have thought of this , but are your spark plug leads on the CORRECT location on the dizzy? firing order maybe out of whack if it is , it will never start.


http://img18.exs.cx/img18/7701/b16firingorder2.jpg
Yeah its in the correct order.. just doubled check just then.
Off she goes tomorrow to the mechanics.

[beeza]

Well,U certainly gave it your best shot mate,that's all you can do and learn from experience :)

[g_kn]

Well,U certainly gave it your best shot mate,that's all you can do and learn from experience :)


yeah, just hope it gets up and running soon.
ill let you know when she finally starts.
Thanks

[beeza]

It will!!

[02gzm]

let us know what it was too

[Sir_vtec]

I first would find where the fuel is coming from if you are getting drenched with fuel everytime u turn the ignition.

also if u are using the wrong type of fuel for your car the spark plugs will have an indication on the butt of the plug if its too black. take your old spark plugs and check it with this.

http://www.partsamerica.com/Maintenance/MaintenanceSparkPlugTips.aspx

hope it helps

[Bludger]

any updates?

how did you go?

[g_kn]

Got it started, sorry for the late reply
It eventually choked itself back to life after alot of attempts at trying to start it.
Flooded engine.
Thanks for all the help .

[bennjamin]

fantastic.
I told you lol....eventually it will clear up and will start up again.Great to see its running again

[beeza]

Good One!