View Full Version : Haywards itb on k24 eg. Will it fit under the hood???
FLICK
18-02-2009, 12:23 PM
Hi there guys and girls.
Just wondering if the hayward itb system will fit under the hood of my K SWAPPED EG6. And it is also possible to run an airbox without alterations to my hood. So before i send myself broke. Maybe someone somewhere knows, or knows someone you runs this System would you please care to share some Info with me.
Kind Regards
Wont be possible to run airbox at all without any modification to the bonnet.
FLICK
18-02-2009, 12:55 PM
What if i run it without an airbox?
geeang
18-02-2009, 01:20 PM
Didn't JDMYard EGK20A have to cut a big hole in the bonnet to clear ITB's?
FLICK
18-02-2009, 01:33 PM
Yeah but apparently these Hayward ITB's are designed so that its fits without cutting the hood.
Yeah but apparently these Hayward ITB's are designed so that its fits without cutting the hood.
I believe you still have to cut some of your bonnet skeleton
So no way you can run the air box without big hump on your bonnet
geeang
18-02-2009, 01:35 PM
Hhmmm in that case it would probably fit but there's still the possibility that you'll have to cut the reinforcing behind the hood.
FLICK
18-02-2009, 03:45 PM
but what will i be gaining with ITBS if i dont run it an airbox. Can they be run efficiently without run.
Can always just buy another hood?
fatboyz39
18-02-2009, 04:12 PM
Yes haywards will fit under the bonnet. As for running airbox, there not needed.
but what will i be gaining with ITBS if i dont run it an airbox. Can they be run efficiently without run.
You'll gain response and midrange, but the point of itbs is a longer, faster intake charge with more control due to individual throttles, but the haywards ( or jenveys ) can be ordered in a few different configs for the k20, some longer then others, tapered or straight throttles to name a few.
Having them mounted under the hood like that, unboxed, and with the bays heat being trapped in the area of the intake, they will be sucking in hot air which is never good, itbs will always work better with a correct airbox and intake with filters mounted down stream from the trumpets themselves, hence why you see properly prepped race car with them fitted and ducted to incoming cold air, opposed to sucking in hot, less dense air, unflitered more often then not on alot of cars due to getting more power then when filtered but dirty air flogs your guides and seats, and if filtered at the trumpet, you distrupted the airflow, bellmouth affect, and response, just to name a few.
More often then not, people in the scene do not properly set up itbs and take advantage of what they have to offer, rather, they look the part.
I dont know what your looking to use the car for, but im guessing your just trying to get the most you can under that bonnet without cutting it, i would be taking the time to build an airbox and intake to suit.
FLICK
18-02-2009, 05:23 PM
Thanks for the info guys, Much appreciated. So pretty much for it run at optimal level it needs an airbox. And if im not willing to cut my bonnet then pretty much forget about it.
TODA AU
18-02-2009, 06:22 PM
Thanks for the info guys, Much appreciated. So pretty much for it run at optimal level it needs an airbox. And if im not willing to cut my bonnet then pretty much forget about it.
If you’re going to spend the money on ITB & use them to full effect,
Honestly, It’s a waste of time if you just fit them for the sake of it.
For the money invested it makes no sense to go about things half arsed.
Though the Haywards may not have an air box readily available, a TWM or Jenvy one might work, failing that there’s no reason one could not be produced.
Further, there are other ITB’s for similar money on the market that can be made to clear & have a box fitted.
Though space will be a premium in an EG, ITB’s & an airbox can be done.
Didn't JDMYard EGK20A have to cut a big hole in the bonnet to clear ITB's?
You’re right,
A bit of background on that one.
On the dyno, the trumpets were shielded from direct airflow & the output was pretty good.
On the drag strip however, in an attempt to get more air in, the hood was bashed down exposing the trumpets.
The buffeting air flow over the trumpets net effect was a drop in MPH (or HP loss)
Contrary to popular belief, forward facing exposed trumpets is not such a good thing..
If they're going to be left open, they'll work a lot better in a tray, box or bucket.
Smooth linear airflow is your friend.
Though air filters are optional, they’re still a good idea (insurance)
7ypeR
18-02-2009, 06:50 PM
Adrian once again, always on the money. Good on ya mate :thumbsup:
FLICK
18-02-2009, 07:34 PM
If you’re going to spend the money on ITB & use them to full effect,
Honestly, It’s a waste of time if you just fit them for the sake of it.
For the money invested it makes no sense to go about things half arsed.
Though the Haywards may not have an air box readily available, a TWM or Jenvy one might work, failing that there’s no reason one could not be produced.
Further, there are other ITB’s for similar money on the market that can be made to clear & have a box fitted.
Though space will be a premium in an EG, ITB’s & an airbox can be done.
You’re right,
A bit of background on that one.
On the dyno, the trumpets were shielded from direct airflow & the output was pretty good.
On the drag strip however, in an attempt to get more air in, the hood was bashed down exposing the trumpets.
The buffeting air flow over the trumpets net effect was a drop in MPH (or HP loss)
Contrary to popular belief, forward facing exposed trumpets is not such a good thing..
If they're going to be left open, they'll work a lot better in a tray, box or bucket.
Smooth linear airflow is your friend.
Though air filters are optional, they’re still a good idea (insurance)
Alright so it can be done. But with alot of custom work i believe? Your right Adrian no point spending money for the sake of it.
barefootbonzai
18-02-2009, 07:44 PM
If you got money to spend, try to get your hands onto a IPS intake manifold.
Didn't JDMYard EGK20A have to cut a big hole in the bonnet to clear ITB's?
Old Skool Days :thumbsup:
http://www.jdmyard.com/jdmyard_2006/images/egk20a/IMG_3116.jpg
Here are some pics for those who are interested
TWM ITB on our EG hatch back in the days
http://www.k20a.org/z10/DSC01680.jpg
They stick out quite abit
http://www.k20a.org/z10/DSC01684.jpg
http://www.k20a.org/z10/DSC01696.jpg
http://www.k20a.org/z10/DSC01702.jpg
FLICK
18-02-2009, 08:21 PM
Here are some pics for those who are interested
TWM ITB on our EG hatch back in the days
http://www.k20a.org/z10/DSC01702.jpg
In This picture, wouldn't it be better to have the trumpets fully exposed then have it half cover by the bonnet? Is because the pic is the way it is.
They pop out dont they, How the hell would an airbox fit under the bonnet.
grumpy rooster
18-02-2009, 08:29 PM
What do you plan on using the car for? Because the rules of whatever you plan on using the car for may prohibit anything from protruding from the bodywork of the car (eg. the All Motor class).
FLICK
18-02-2009, 08:55 PM
What do you plan on using the car for? Because the rules of whatever you plan on using the car for may prohibit anything from protruding from the bodywork of the car (eg. the All Motor class).
Well good question, i havent really figured that answer out for myself yet. This is pretty much what i have in mind. I wanna build it now for drags. I wanna try and get as much power as i can out if this engine.
My goal is 11sec's, maybe faster but i know its gonna hurt my bank balance if im thinking of 10's. I know its not easy, i've heard and heard. I dont want turbo, im sick of turbos all my mates had turbos and im over it. After im done with drags and ive reach my goal. Im gonna stick all the roll cages in and necessary track accessories and setup and tune the thing for the track.
People say you cant do both its either drag or track, But im gonna try. I hope to finish this car in 6months from now. And then the testing will begin. But right now im new to this and im doing my research so that i get this right for i what i want.
Its good to hear from other people what they think and recommend.
Chr1s
18-02-2009, 08:56 PM
As for running airbox, there not needed.
rofl.
As Adrian stated above, people think ITB's in the open "ready to suck in everything" is the best, but at 100km/h the pressure and turbulance stuffs everything up.
honda_b_blastn
18-02-2009, 09:02 PM
If you got money to spend, try to get your hands onto a IPS intake manifold.
:thumbsup::thumbsup: The hardest part to get your hands on..
FLICK
18-02-2009, 09:13 PM
If you got money to spend, try to get your hands onto a IPS intake manifold.
Sounds Deer. How much roughly?
grumpy rooster
18-02-2009, 09:13 PM
Well good question, i havent really figured that answer out for myself yet. This is pretty much what i have in mind. I wanna build it now for drags. I wanna try and get as much power as i can out if this engine.
My goal is 11sec's, maybe faster but i know its gonna hurt my bank balance if im thinking of 10's. I know its not easy, i've heard and heard. I dont want turbo, im sick of turbos all my mates had turbos and im over it. After im done with drags and ive reach my goal. Im gonna stick all the roll cages in and necessary track accessories and setup and tune the thing for the track.
People say you cant do both its either drag or track, But im gonna try. I hope to finish this car in 6months from now. And then the testing will begin. But right now im new to this and im doing my research so that i get this right for i what i want.
Its good to hear from other people what they think and recommend.
Been there, done that. Its impossible to set up a car for the track and the drags and compete in both at the car's full potential. What works for circuit will not work for the strip. Its always a compromise so you never really achive what you theoretically could if you set the car up correctly for one or the other.
My advice, choose one or the other and build the car for that purpose. You won't end up doing things twice (to suit both conditions) and will spend less money (not getting 2 sets of things).
If you got money to spend, try to get your hands onto a IPS intake manifold.
If the Chinese art of copying wasnt so rife like it is in the us, this wouldnt be such a problem, but that just isnt the case which is a shame for the K series people with ips knowing where every manifold goes should a copied product turn up, saying that, they arnt as good as a proper itb set-up though.
:thumbsup::thumbsup: The hardest part to get your hands on..
hard because they never deliver the part and run with your money ! haha
feel sorry for some ppl, one guy waited 4 years and still has nothing to show for it
barefootbonzai
19-02-2009, 11:41 AM
Sounds Deer. How much roughly?
Since IPS is almost impossible to get a hold off. Try the local JDMYard Superman Intake! -> http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78821
saying that, they arnt as good as a proper itb set-up though.
you got proof of this? Many of the US guys say the total opposite.
FLICK
19-02-2009, 01:23 PM
*Sigh*:confused::confused::confused:
On the bigger set-ups Duy, yes i have seen a few back to back dyno results but they wernt online, alot of the IPS back to backs were done compared to smallish itbs hanging out the front of bonnets with dyno fan on, no airbox ect, and most of them were TWM's which are the worst of them, but the cheapest so thats why they are used.
Its abit like now everyone in the K world is singing and posting the praises of the new kinsler itbs, and saying how fantasic they are and how they got 20 more horse power from there 50-54 jenvey/twm itbs against there 62mm kinslers, its not rocket science there top end is looking the goods.
The proof is in the pudding in Motorsport, itb's are fitted to everything at the extreme of N/A performance, alot of people just wouldnt have a clue on correct sizing both in diameter, length, and trumpet used, addressing its feed/intake also as discussed here, something most people that fit them think isnt required to get the most of them, hence there results against such products.
delsol9000rpms
19-02-2009, 03:45 PM
any pics of this IPS intake manifold?
any pics of this IPS intake manifold?
Similar design to mine , We started to post pics on k20a.org back in 2004. And these days they look all like that .
http://www.intrinsicperformance.com/images/intakemanifold/IPS-HP-1stArticle-03.jpg
On Loan Nguyen 10 sec EG
10.56sec@130.8 mph to be exact.
http://www.k20a.org/uploadnew/loansbay.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c51/jdmdc529/moroso009.jpg
fatboyz39
19-02-2009, 06:05 PM
race proven!
barefootbonzai
19-02-2009, 07:10 PM
extreme of N/A performance on a honda right there...
FLICK
19-02-2009, 07:31 PM
What's that hanging at the bottom of the car?
Its a velocity stack or bellmouth used to feed the throttle body, and yeah for a given appliction and what i said was a problem for forward facing itbs, the ips manifold has been designed like an itb set-up like i also said earlier, longer runners, with bellmouths, an airbox fed from an inlet pipe with the air being channeled after a 90 degree turn with a throttle plate that controls flow, it is a good thing dont get me wrong, but its made with a multi purpose/engine application and they have done their homework to suit the K, but................it still wont out do a properly sorted itb set-up, and with it, you'll get your midrange and response, not really required in drag racing though is it?????????????
honda_b_blastn
19-02-2009, 09:20 PM
i think he was talking about the metal tray under the engine...the call them "engine nappy's". In place to catch fluids ect if such disasters take place. One of the many requirements in the States when you get to that level of Drag racing
My set up
Proven :11.82sec@113.6mph on a stock k24a3 internals
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/YonasLiu/yonas.jpg
fatboyz39
19-02-2009, 09:43 PM
properly sorted ITB 5-8k? is it worth it? IPS manifold are the shit!
properly sorted ITB 5-8k? is it worth it? IPS manifold are the shit!
Or AFI Intake Manifold like on Tim Grey's EG
http://ll.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagames/NFS/speedhunters.com/Images/AntonioAlvendia/Feature%20Cars/Alpha%20green%20Drag%20EG6/IMG_0706%20copy.jpg
http://ll.speedhunters.com/u/f/eagames/NFS/speedhunters.com/Images/AntonioAlvendia/Feature%20Cars/Alpha%20green%20Drag%20EG6/IMG_0714%20copy.jpg
FLICK
20-02-2009, 06:20 AM
Yeah i was talking about the tray, but i really didnt know what a v-stack actually did anyway so thanks for filling me in. So many intake systems!!!! just make 1 or 2, why so many?? how do you know whats better than the other, at the end of the day it really comes down to personal preference. Sometime your force into a corner to decide is it worth it.
Is it really worth spending 5k+ on the intake system. Really how much better is it gonna be than your 3k one or even 1k.
properly sorted ITB 5-8k? is it worth it? IPS manifold are the shit!
Back on topic, if Flick has the money to do it properly opposed to finding a cheap way out which is common practice to so many on here, not to mention his purpose isnt just drag racing which is where these manifolds are used with good results, it is the way to go and ive seen the dyno results and MPH on US cars.
What about all the proper set up 9 sec cars with itbs on them, they must be missing out not running an IPS or AFI manifold, and yeah, while you consider them proven once again in drag racing on these cars, these cars are far from the better ones in their class or compared to the big boys in the US, that all run itbs.
When are you planning to have a built motor BTW Yonas, anytime soon?
When are you planning to have a built motor BTW Yonas, anytime soon?
Will do it sometimes this year hopefully.
Dont really have spare time these days.
fatboyz39
20-02-2009, 07:52 PM
9sec drag car? Paperweight?
9sec drag car? Paperweight?
Hahahahaha, unlike the other "proven" set-ups you speak of, hahahahaha, you really do make me laugh Jimmy, talking about all these other proven cars you speak so highly of......................
As you should know with your set-up, weight = win, in what ever form, so why even bother mentioning it, those eg's including Yona's with the holes drilled everywhere are included, but they arnt shite compared to the real deal of their classes, otherwise Yonas would have commented im sure.
Just queitly, were you driving your car when it pulled 107.7's, shouldnt be to hard for you to reproduce come race time then should it?
Like i said, looking forward to an interesting year of super sprints. :thumbsup:
fatboyz39
20-02-2009, 11:49 PM
Hahahahaha, unlike the other "proven" set-ups you speak of, hahahahaha, you really do make me laugh Jimmy, talking about all these other proven cars you speak so highly of......................
As you should know with your set-up, weight = win, in what ever form, so why even bother mentioning it, those eg's including Yona's with the holes drilled everywhere are included, but they arnt shite compared to the real deal of their classes, otherwise Yonas would have commented im sure.
Just queitly, were you driving your car when it pulled 107.7's, shouldnt be to hard for you to reproduce come race time then should it?
Like i said, looking forward to an interesting year of super sprints. :thumbsup:
Yes power to weight wins. Just leave it up to the pro's that has run 10's and 11's comment. :thumbsup:
Nah wasnt driving, if you havnt heard we hire a professional driver to give it a steer. Guess it was worth the investment.
Yes power to weight wins. Just leave it up to the pro's that has run 10's and 11's comment. :thumbsup:
Nah wasnt driving, if you havnt heard we hire a professional driver to give it a steer. Guess it was worth the investment.
No i didnt think you were, is he available all season? :p
Yeah those pro's running 10's and 11's really seem like jokers compared to those running 9's, ill say no more. ;)
Like i said, look forward to seeing the talk do the walk, and no i hadnt heard, just assumed, look forward to seeing the results on the board. :thumbsup:
geeang
21-02-2009, 12:27 AM
No i didnt think you were, is he available all season? :p
Yeah those pro's running 10's and 11's really seem like jokers compared to those running 9's, ill say no more. ;)
Like i said, look forward to seeing the talk do the walk, and no i hadnt heard, just assumed, look forward to seeing the results on the board. :thumbsup:
I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic, Benny drove the car, as has always been the case for a very long time now. They hit a PB of 1:07 but were running consistent back to back 1:08's on fading brake pads and initial suspension setup not suited to the heavier engine.
grumpy rooster
21-02-2009, 08:42 AM
In every form of motorsport, no matter which engine or manufacturer, the top NA cars in each class run individual throttles (unless class rules specifically prohibit it) for a reason.
Having wasted way too much money on cars already in my life I will say one thing. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME !!! There is nothing worse than having to do things over and over again because you tried to take the cheaper but not as good option. 9 times out of 10 it turns out to be the wrong decision. And in turn you end up spending more time and money than if you'd saved that little bit longer and bought what you really wanted the first time.
In other words don't take short cuts because they more than not don't pay off.
In every form of motorsport, no matter which engine or manufacturer, the top NA cars in each class run individual throttles (unless class rules specifically prohibit it) for a reason.
Having wasted way too much money on cars already in my life I will say one thing. DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME !!! There is nothing worse than having to do things over and over again because you tried to take the cheaper but not as good option. 9 times out of 10 it turns out to be the wrong decision. And in turn you end up spending more time and money than if you'd saved that little bit longer and bought what you really wanted the first time.
In other words don't take short cuts because they more than not don't pay off.
Well said Darren. :thumbsup:
Thats what i think and say when i post anything on here, but others seem to argue with little to no substance to their arguements or it seems just for the sake of it, and in the end, as you say, you get what you pay for or what you put the time, thought, R&D and research into.
Hi there guys and girls.
Just wondering if the hayward itb system will fit under the hood of my K SWAPPED EG6. And it is also possible to run an airbox without alterations to my hood. So before i send myself broke. Maybe someone somewhere knows, or knows someone you runs this System would you please care to share some Info with me.
Kind Regards
The Hayward system will fit under your EG Chassis.
In regards to fitting an airbox, and not modifying the bonnet, an off the shelf one will not fit, so you will have to custom make it. but there is not sufficient space to desgin a decent box anyway
hope that helps
FLICK
21-02-2009, 01:43 PM
Well said Darren. :thumbsup:
Thats what i think and say when i post anything on here, but others seem to argue with little to no substance to their arguements or it seems just for the sake of it, and in the end, as you say, you get what you pay for or what you put the time, thought, R&D and research into.
Well thats my philosophy, im in the R/C (radio control cars) scene, That car you see in my Avatar cost me around 5K. I done the cheaper option before but you find yourself and you find yourself just stuck behind the top drivers. And then you end up buying the good shit. Not only that you wasted time and money. but in a way its a good learning curve. You really cant start with the top shit cuz by the time you learn to use it its due for a new one. you get my drift.
But i dont like 2nd best. Cuz it just doesnt give you that satisfaction.eg you buy Tag Heuer but its fake, does the same thing but it doesnt give you that satisfaction has having a real one.
EfiOz
21-02-2009, 04:26 PM
There is a redesigned Jenvey inlet manifold but we haven't tried one on an EG yet. It's also designed to use the stock power steering location and drive belt system, so it works fine on DC5's etc.
We've also got a new slim line Pipercross air box on the way. Might be worth a look.
grumpy rooster
21-02-2009, 04:46 PM
Your probably going to be better off getting something custom made that seals against the bonnet and uses the bonnet as the top cover. You could still run a CAI as well.
Benson
21-02-2009, 08:01 PM
I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic, Benny drove the car, as has always been the case for a very long time now. They hit a PB of 1:07 but were running consistent back to back 1:08's on fading brake pads and initial suspension setup not suited to the heavier engine.
Those times are fake :p We are only shit stiring..
Dont worry we are still running 1:10's with the b20;)
back to the topic,
Haywards itbs are the shit, worth every penny if you can get them at a good price
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