D16 Rebuild

[RobboEK]

Hi Guys,

I'm looking at rebuilding the engine in my 98 EK1. Its a D16Y4 and its just done over 250000 km's i'm just looking for suggestions for what parts i should run in it. I'm looking to replace rods pistons, apparently i read somewhere (on here or turbod16.com) that this is the weakness in these motors. i want to build it to either turbo or even supercharge. But this wont be till later.

So basically i'm planning on buying another D16 Motor and rebuilding it then doing the transplant. so i'm after ideas as to what go fast bits would be good for the rebuild.

[SeverAMV]

head to www.fjdistributors.com, they have a cheap turbo rebuild kit for $300US. comes with a set of coated negative dome pistons, all bearings, a metal head gasket, new water pump, and every gasket you'll ever need.

the d16 rods are sturdy for NA, but not too sure about boost. fj distributors also have a set of I beam rods that are extremely durable, reasonably lightweight, and come with arp rod bolts (a $300 extra if purchased separately).

they can also supply turbo kits.

[Lukezen27]

That's what I was going to do before my motor blew up...

I had a quote done and all...

D16Z6 Turbo bottom end kit with -YCP Vitara pistons 75.5mm
Semi desk block guard
Custom I beams for slightly higher com

[nd55]

> this is the weakness in these motors.

Rods usually break at the 200Hp point.

Oiling in the D16Y is not optimal for high Hp applications.

Some simple solutions are:

* porting the oil pump
* shimming the oil pump relief valve.

Better solutions include

* installing a D16Z pump, (it's wider and hence more volume)
* Morosso oil accumulator (My recommendation, not echoed by any1 else)

There are pluses and minuses with all these solutions.

> Semi desk block guard

There's a lot of controversy regarding block guards. Do your research.
IMHO they're not necessary/desirable.

Nick.

[RobboEK]

Basically its going to be an everyday driver, but i also want the power under foot when i want it.

So i was thinking about going High compression although from what ive read this isn't desirable in turbo applications.

Maybe plan B. Will build this motor tight and transplant it and rebuild the existing one to be better for the turbo application.

I have a friend who has a set of Eagle H Beam rods and wants to know if i want to buy em. Are they good? he told me they are but this is the first rebuild of a honda motor, so i'm a little unsure.

Piston brands? whats good and whats nasty?
What should i avoid in this rebuild?

[Lukezen27]

Basically its going to be an everyday driver, but i also want the power under foot when i want it.

So i was thinking about going High compression although from what ive read this isn't desirable in turbo applications.

Maybe plan B. Will build this motor tight and transplant it and rebuild the existing one to be better for the turbo application.

I have a friend who has a set of Eagle H Beam rods and wants to know if i want to buy em. Are they good? he told me they are but this is the first rebuild of a honda motor, so i'm a little unsure.

Piston brands? whats good and whats nasty?
What should i avoid in this rebuild?

Eagle H Beam rods are good stuff but you'll need to notch the block for those bad boys

Match em with some Vitara - 75.5mm YCP Pistons plus ACL race bearing

Then your starting to get somewhere, for boost that is

[RobboEK]

I have read some good reports on the Nippon Pistion Sets. SeverAMV mentioned fjdistributors in his post above which resell em. Has anyone had any first hand experience with em?

[lookingforboost]

Few guys in america have had some great success with the nippoin in my research jump on the net you can see some other peoples build ups on these motors.
If you not going to buy those Eagle H beam rod's send me a PM caz i'll take them he he :P

[Lukezen27]

I have read some good reports on the Nippon Pistion Sets. SeverAMV mentioned fjdistributors in his post above which resell em. Has anyone had any first hand experience with em?

fjdistributors has both options

[RobboEK]

Will the H Beam Rods fit either set of pistons or is the pin a different size?

[Lukezen27]

Will the H Beam Rods fit either set of pistons or is the pin a different size?

Let the research begin
http://www.d-series.org/forums/?
http://www.turbod16.com/index.php

[TODA AU]

Hi Guys,

I'm looking at rebuilding the engine in my 98 EK1. Its a D16Y4 and its just done over 250000 km's i'm just looking for suggestions for what parts i should run in it. I'm looking to replace rods pistons, apparently i read somewhere (on here or turbod16.com) that this is the weakness in these motors. i want to build it to either turbo or even supercharge. But this wont be till later.

So basically i'm planning on buying another D16 Motor and rebuilding it then doing the transplant. so i'm after ideas as to what go fast bits would be good for the rebuild.

If it was up to me, I'd say spend your money on a B-series conversion.
But that's just my opinion.

But, if you're going to turbo a D-series & you're serious about building something properly,
Don't cut corners & don't use the cheapest parts you can find.
Back engineer the whole thing from your final power target.
Do it once & do it right.
Most of the parts you'll need will be out of the US, so you can certainly shop around & get some good deals.

And PM Weq,
I don't know if he'll share his experiences with you,
But if he does, you would do well to listen.

[nd55]

> If it was up to me, I'd say spend your money on a B-series conversion.

x2. The gear ratios on the D16 gearboxes ain't the best.
It can be a pain in the bum to fit a LSD, too.

> I have read some good reports on the Nippon Pistion Sets.

I don't know much about the Nippon's. I think they are OEM spec.

It's the YCP brand pistons which have been used for most high
Hp turbo D16 builds.

> So i was thinking about going High compression although from what ive read this isn't desirable in turbo applications.

Not compatible with super boost or lax tuning.

The typical YCP Vitara piston on stock length D16 rods build is a low compression motor (8.0:1).

I think FJT has available some custom length rods which restore some compression. If you're gonna spend good money on rods use these.

YCP Vitara pistons are shorter (~2mm) than stock D16 pistons which is the reason for the reduced compression.
Not sure about the Nippons.


> I have a friend who has a set of Eagle H Beam rods and wants to know if i want to buy em.

Depends on the price, see above.


> Will the H Beam Rods fit either set of pistons or is the pin a different size?

Stock piston pin on a D16 is 19mm (interference fit).

YCP Viatara pistons are 19mm piston pin (floating) and are supplied with piston pins and retainers AFAIK.

The stock 75.0mm size YCP's are supposed to be a little loose, but that hasn't stopped anyone making big numbers.

75.5mm YCP's require the block to be bored out, and thus you can choose your clearance.

76.0mm pistons are beyond what Honda recommend for the D16 block.


> Eagle H Beam rods are good stuff but you'll need to notch the block for those bad boys

Most aftermarket D16 rods require block notching. Some require notching the crank girdle too.

Factor in some machine shop time when budgeting for these.


> Will build this motor tight and transplant it and rebuild the existing one to be better for the turbo application.
IMHO the YCP Vitara piston/H beam rod combination is a very widely used/abused for a D16
If you choose a reasonable compression ratio there isn't much difference between a NA and a turbo build on the D16 block.
NA D16's are D16's which haven't had the turbo bolted on yet.

Nick.

[RobboEK]

Thanks everyone for your input.

Am i right in saying that with the lower compression YCP Pistons being a dish top i can go with a cam with a higher lift?

Can anyone suggest a good mild cam? I'm not building this to be the most powerful engine as i mentioned i just want the power there when i want it. and being non vtec i think i would like the cam to come in at about 2500-3000 RPM.

[nd55]

> Am i right in saying that with the lower compression YCP Pistons being a dish top i can go with a cam with a higher lift?

There's heaps of clearance, no question.

The problem is raising the valve lift at 3000RPM, is not gonna get you any more horsepower, very possibly less.

When changing camshafts it is usally for slightly higher lift AND longer duration to improve high rpm performance.

This WILL mean a loss of torque at the rpms you are considering.

People resort to turbocharging D16's for a reason.

Seriously, for the price of a rebuild with forged rods, pistons, cam etc you're well on the way to a B16.
A B20 if you're not wanting to rev it out too much.

If you're still stuck on rebuilding the D16, look at Tighe cams for a mild regrind.
Zex 105300 (D16y8's), 95300 (D16Z's) for a high lift, normal duration turbo cam, new core.
Cam choice for a non-vtec sohc is either Bisi in the states or Tighe locally, both regrinds

Nick.

[nd55]

> And PM Weq,
> I don't know if he'll share his experiences with you,
> But if he does, you would do well to listen.

Robbo & Weq,

any chance this correspondence could be made public.
There's a few of us flying the D16 flag who are interested.

Nick.

[MikeyG]

Weq doesnt come on ozhonda much and usually dont talk unless he wants to thats how he is. so even if u pm him he wont pm back im guessing

[Lukezen27]

> And PM Weq,
> I don't know if he'll share his experiences with you,
> But if he does, you would do well to listen.

Robbo & Weq,

any chance this correspondence could be made public.
There's a few of us flying the D16 flag who are interested.

Nick.


Dude like MikeyG (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/member.php?u=20546) says don't bother giving Weq a PM

While he has done it and done a lot he only posts to pick on people most of the time lol

Wasted Knowledge in that guys hands!!

[Fo55il]

yo, i was thinkin of rebuilding my bottom end.

so the kit from fj should be ok to increase boost to bout 12 yeah if needed?

i dun wan spend an arm n a leg tho.

400ish seems ok

or should i jsut stay wid stock bottom.

i just want a daily + weekend fun.

for d past year ive been happy wid the stock boost performance.

should i bother if i wnated to keep boost to 10-12?

[Lukezen27]

yo, i was thinkin of rebuilding my bottom end.

so the kit from fj should be ok to increase boost to bout 12 yeah if needed?

i dun wan spend an arm n a leg tho.

400ish seems ok

or should i jsut stay wid stock bottom.

i just want a daily + weekend fun.

for d past year ive been happy wid the stock boost performance.

should i bother if i wnated to keep boost to 10-12?

built bottom and stock top is the cheapest rout..

Stock head good for like 300+ HP

[nd55]

> so the kit from fj should be ok to increase boost to bout 12 yeah if
> needed?
>
> i dun wan spend an arm n a leg tho.
>
> 400ish seems ok

That kit will include Vitara pistons, rings, bearings, seals etc.

You will need to add forged rods for a good boost (10psi+) build.

Nick.

[Lukezen27]

> so the kit from fj should be ok to increase boost to bout 12 yeah if
> needed?
>
> i dun wan spend an arm n a leg tho.
>
> 400ish seems ok

That kit will include Vitara pistons, rings, bearings, seals etc.

You will need to add forged rods for a good boost (10psi+) build.

Nick.

Yeah I asked why he didnt just include con rods in the bottom end kit and but done with it but he never replied

[beeza]

Bisimoto sells top quality (probably the best) for the d-series.

http://www.bisimoto.com/

[lookingforboost]

from what i have read around the stock rods are good for 220hp and thats there limit... they will fail after that, so unless your making upwards and over 200hp then the stock rods should be fine to run a boost level of 10psi

in the end the D16 bottom ends are pretty cheap so if you blow it you should be able to find another one pretty easy

[beeza]

Stock injectors are good up to 400hp also!!

[Lukezen27]

Stock injectors are good up to 400hp also!!

Thats a myth bro

There only good for about 120kw or 150HP

Stockie's are only 240CC


from what i have read around the stock rods are good for 220hp and thats there limit... they will fail after that, so unless your making upwards and over 200hp then the stock rods should be fine to run a boost level of 10psi

in the end the D16 bottom ends are pretty cheap so if you blow it you should be able to find another one pretty easy

My rods failed at 160kw or 200HP

[beeza]

Oh! no way.

[Lukezen27]

Oh! no way.

You can get a big more out of them with a FMU but that's dodgy IMO

[RobboEK]

Quick question,

Everywhere i am lookin on the net people are sellin parts for D16Y7 is there any fundamental difference between The Y7 & Y4 i know they are both SOCH non vtec.
Just a little concerned as i don't wanna buy stuff and have it not fit.

[beeza]

You can get a big more out of them with a FMU but that's dodgy IMO

Cheers for clearing that up Luke-us! :honda:

[lookingforboost]

Thats a myth bro

There only good for about 120kw or 150HP

Stockie's are only 240CC



My rods failed at 160kw or 200HP

Really well the injectors are bigger than i thought they were :p thats still alright considering what other manufactures put in there non turbo cars.

well i was pretty close then :cool: but there abouts of 200hp then = broke

[nd55]

>is there any fundamental difference between The Y7 & Y4

Y7 is US spec. Not likely to be found in Aus at all.

Differences are in the intake and exhaust manifold.

Y4 is Aus spec and gets the Y8 intake and exhaust manifold.

Y4 gets a bastard, Oz only ecu, which complicates ODB conversion if you are going to reprogram the fuel maps.

Y7 75KW
Y4 88kW
Y8 96KW

The Y4 doesn't scrub up so bad compared to the fancier SOHC vtec engine.

> i don't wanna buy stuff and have it not fit.

When working and learning on a vehicle you inevitably end up with enough parts for 1 and a half cars.
And yet there's always something missing.

Don't try the pioneering approach. There's enough info here and elsewhere on what other have done. Copy it.

Nick.

[redefine]

i get the impression the y8 is just y4+vtec. is this true?

[RobboEK]

Hi Guys,

Just a bit of an update I have started buying bits and pieces. I have just ordered a set of eagle H-Beam Rods and Nippon Racing low compression pistons. I went with the 75.5mm set cause i was gonna give it a rebore anyway. as for ECU i'm gonna put in an Microtech LT10S.
I have decided i'm going to bolt on a GT2860RS as they are good for up to 350HP and i have decided i only want a maximum off 300hp.

Has anyone used an M-Factory LSD?

[Lukezen27]

Hi Guys,

Just a bit of an update I have started buying bits and pieces. I have just ordered a set of eagle H-Beam Rods and Nippon Racing low compression pistons. I went with the 75.5mm set cause i was gonna give it a rebore anyway. as for ECU i'm gonna put in an Microtech LT10S.
I have decided i'm going to bolt on a GT2860RS as they are good for up to 350HP and i have decided i only want a maximum off 300hp.

Has anyone used an M-Factory LSD?

Don't go with the Microtech LT10S :o

The GT2860RS good but what spec one are you going to run?

Would be better buying a GT2871R unless you get the GT2860RS hell cheap

Yup I've got the M-Factory LSD and she feels great but only on NA right now....

Turbo will be on tomorrow though so I let you know tomorrow night hahah

Make sure you start reading up on Honda PCV systems under boost!!

Also make sure you lessen to Nick (nd55) as he's slowly building this type of setup and researched a lot so far (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/member.php?u=10969)

[RobboEK]

Don't go with the Microtech LT10S :o




Is there any reason why i shouldn't go with the Microtech?

My mate is running one in his TX3 and it seems to be good.

[Lukezen27]

Is there any reason why i shouldn't go with the Microtech?

My mate is running one in his TX3 and it seems to be good.


Eazy answer

1. Start with a Honda ECU you have everything working correctly straight off the bat.... No fuking round.

2. No install is needed.. saving right there

3. You moding the Honda base maps so you can drive you car round before tuning

[kazam]

subscribed

[VTECnique]

B18B rods can also be used, but some machining of the rods is required. you dont have to notch the block though. i believe all h-beam & i-beam rods require notching the block.

Can i just say this, by the time you factor in the price for - pistons, rods, bore, machining, etc. since almost all parts you have to get overseas, & atm exchange is a little crap, you could have easily done a B-swap.

Please dont get me wrong though mate, if you wanna build the d, go for it. im in the same boat as you, turbo the d or b-swap. I need something thats reliable, but at the same time still fun to drive...

[lookingforboost]

^^^i am going to build it :)

[Fo55il]

lol @ theres a sinificant diff between vtec n boost.

imo its 2 very different boats.

depends on which boat u like.

[RobboEK]

Hi guys, i'm having a bit of confusion here...
i'm looking at upgrading the ignition system probably to an MSD external coil system, although i can't seem to find the right setup for a AUDM D16Y4.

Apparently the USDM D16Y8 is supposed to be the same as the Y4 (Minus VTEC of course) but the distributors look completely different.

Has anyone on here swapped over to MSD External Coil?
__________________________________________________ _____________

Scratch that,

i found a post from nd55 in another thread which kinda cleared things up.

[kazam]

i thought the usdm y8 is the equivelant to our y1?

[Lukezen27]

i thought the usdm y8 is the equivelant to our y1?

Nope

AU D16Y1 = US D16Z6
Au D16Y8 = US D16Y8

[RobboEK]

Ok, so apparently there aren't a whole lot of options for ignition on a D16Y4.

Does anyone know if any of the other D16 series distributors just bolt on?
I contacted MSD and they weren't real helpful at all they just said "PN 82923" but looking at this cap on their website seems to be completely different to the cap on my Y4.

My cap looks more like PN 82943 but i don't wanna buy it incase it doesn't fit.

[nd55]

> Ok, so apparently there aren't a whole lot of options for ignition on a D16Y4.

Unless you are looking at a complete MSD ignition, there's not really much point to a new cap and a different coil.


The MSD 6 series capacitive ignitions aren't really satisfactory for our Honda's because the CD box wants a trigger from a points style ignition which we don't have.
The voltage and polarity of the trigger signal is all wrong.

I remember a post on Hondatech.com describing a simple level shifter circuit made up of a few discrete components, but you'd have to go digging cause I don't have the link handy.

The MSD 7 & 8 series are worth more than our entire motors are worth.

There is/was a Honda specific MSD coil & ignitor package which will look very attractive to somebody who has priced a dizzy from Mr Honda Australia, but I don't think is plug and play on our d16's.

My advice get a new dizzy from Distributor King and new plugs and wires.
Gap the plugs right and be done with it.

The red dizzy caps are some nice bling, but I've never seen anyone say the OEM ignition system has left any Hp on the table.

Nick.

[VTECnique]

i can understand why you would want to replace the dizzy since your rebuilding the motor. The Y4 is, what alot of people have said, the 'black sheep' of the honda family engines. I too would like to upgrade my cap to an external coil type, fact is our Y4s whole dizzy differs from the Y7 & Y8 of the same year. However, im not 100% sure if an MSD external coil dizzy cap will fit, but im not going to be the guinea pig for it either.

I have seen a DIY where some-one modified the stock dizzy cap to accept an external coil. they used an MSD power tower, & drilled a hole in the dizzy for the power tower. however, since it was a long time ago i saw this post, i cannot remember what they used to secure the power tower to the cap.

EDIT - have a look at each of these caps carefully. http://www.msdignition.com/products/sport_compact_import/
I just sussed out my dizzy, it said hitachi on it.

[RobboEK]

Hi Guys,

Just an update to how its all coming together.
The block, head and crank are at the engine builders now, I ended up going with the Nippon Racing low comp pistons and Eagle H Beams(ARP 2000) . I also put ARP head studs in for good measure.

I Just ordered a Exedy 10.9lb Flywheel and Exedy HD clutch. I'm also lookin at a MFactory Helical LSD

For the Intake i ended up with a Skunk2 Pro Series intake and AEM High volume fuel rail. As for the throttle body i'm going with a Skunk2 68MM Pro series.
Right now i am trying to decide what injectors to go with, i'm only wanting to get 300HP so i don't know what size injectors are gonna be best.

I decided i would go with the Microtech LT10S ECU as it replaces the dizzy with a cam position sensor and uses external coil packs for ignition.

Turbo wise i am gonna be getting a Garrett GT2860RS.

[NightKids]

So how much did it cost all up?

[RobboEK]

Its not finished yet, but so far i have spent about $3500 with about another $6000 to go lol

[kazam]

so your doing a built D-T?

[RobboEK]

Yeah, i thought about a B-swap, but at the end of the day its still a 1.6 and i'll still be wanting more. Not trying to start any wars here but i think a turbo d would be more fun to drive.

[kazam]

nah its each 2 their own, but u proby couldahdun a b-series T 4 the same price and it may have been a faster with the dual cams

[Lukezen27]

Its not finished yet, but so far i have spent about $3500 with about another $6000 to go lol

I'm still under 5k including B16A:p

[RobboEK]

Whats being done to yours Lukezen?

[Lukezen27]

Whats being done to yours Lukezen?


Build up thread :thumbsup:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108143

[VTECnique]

Hi Guys,

Just an update to how its all coming together.
The block, head and crank are at the engine builders now, I ended up going with the Nippon Racing low comp pistons and Eagle H Beams(ARP 2000) . I also put ARP head studs in for good measure.

I Just ordered a Exedy 10.9lb Flywheel and Exedy HD clutch. I'm also lookin at a MFactory Helical LSD

For the Intake i ended up with a Skunk2 Pro Series intake and AEM High volume fuel rail. As for the throttle body i'm going with a Skunk2 68MM Pro series.
Right now i am trying to decide what injectors to go with, i'm only wanting to get 300HP so i don't know what size injectors are gonna be best.

I decided i would go with the Microtech LT10S ECU as it replaces the dizzy with a cam position sensor and uses external coil packs for ignition.

Turbo wise i am gonna be getting a Garrett GT2860RS.

440cc injectors, either from RC or Precision. with that setup, i think you may get a bit more than 300hp...

[RobboEK]

Hi Guys,

Lookin for a bit of help, i just bought some seats off eBay, but it turns out they are bottom mount not side mount like in the Civic.
Does anyone know where i can get some bottom mount seat rails from?
I know the recaros out of the type-r were bottom mount, but pretty much i just want a plug and play kinda setup, as most of the rails are super low or something and apparently you cant fit anything under them. In my case this is unacceptable as my stereo has a control box under the passenger seat.

Any ideas are welcome.

[SeverAMV]

supercheapauto now sell bucket seats and universal rails.

[kazam]

Hi Guys,

Lookin for a bit of help, i just bought some seats off eBay, but it turns out they are bottom mount not side mount like in the Civic.
Does anyone know where i can get some bottom mount seat rails from?
I know the recaros out of the type-r were bottom mount, but pretty much i just want a plug and play kinda setup, as most of the rails are super low or something and apparently you cant fit anything under them. In my case this is unacceptable as my stereo has a control box under the passenger seat.

Any ideas are welcome.

y the hell did u post that in here? u bin on the forum for 2 years, u should probly no by now where 2 post stuff.....

[joyride]

he can do what he wants. no need to slag him about it.

[kazam]

he can do what he wants. no need to slag him about it.

?????????????

as a moderator, judging by the title of this thread "d16 rebuild" u shuld think that a question regarding seats is better suited in this section of the forum http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=83 and not in a thread about an engine rebuild...

but i guess u no best brah

[joyride]

i dont feel theres a need to move it yet, hes generated 60+ replies so his questions appear to be answered satisfactorly.

but if the OP wants me to move it or whatever, i'm happy to oblige.

[kazam]

Hi Guys,

Lookin for a bit of help, i just bought some seats off eBay, but it turns out they are bottom mount not side mount like in the Civic.
Does anyone know where i can get some bottom mount seat rails from?
I know the recaros out of the type-r were bottom mount, but pretty much i just want a plug and play kinda setup, as most of the rails are super low or something and apparently you cant fit anything under them. In my case this is unacceptable as my stereo has a control box under the passenger seat.

Any ideas are welcome.


MAN this is the post i was talking about joy... pay attention

[joyride]

yes i noticed it while reading through the thread the first time but it didnt bother me enough to ask him why he put it in here when he should have made a new thread about it.
lets just get back on topic and help the guy.

robbo, if you want to keep the control box under the seat you'd have to custom-make a rail to fit the new seats, i dont know the legality of it but i would assume changing seats would require an engineer certificate.

also next time, make a new thread for any new issue/request you have in the correct subforum. it would save you alot of hassle and save us the confusion/frustration.

[RobboEK]

Apologies... but thanks for the info...