Electric water pump

[B18cEG]

Hey, Just would like to know everyones thoughts on going with an electric water pump on a highly modified 2.1 "b18c" the pump i am looking at flows 240gph so about 908lph, thoughs please, pros and cons

[TODA AU]

Hey, Just would like to know everyones thoughts on going with an electric water pump on a highly modified 2.1 "b18c" the pump i am looking at flows 240gph so about 908lph, thoughs please, pros and cons
The factory water pump works just fine & there is little to be gained in removing it.
I don't think it is it worth the expense to build 1 more thing into the system that could go wrong for the sake of 1 to 2 hp gain.
If you're doing a build, IMO, you should only change what is nessesary to meet your power target without compromising reliability.

[B18cEG]

I will do a full thread of all my mods soon but just wanted to know the benefits of going electric if any, i would prefer the standard but if there is only a few hp to be gained im not gonna bother at the expense of being left without a cooling system if it was to fail.

Thanks

[TODA AU]

If it was up to me, I'd just use a brand new genuine pump.
Can't go wrong.
If the pump stops, something much worse has already occured. ;)

[fatboyz39]

put that money in a dry sump set-up.

[TODA AU]

put that money in a dry sump set-up.
Dry sumps are good when done right...
But that's quite a cost difference there that the saving of 1 pump is going towards...
Might need to not use say 15 or 20 electric pumps... LOL

[B18cEG]

Dry sumps are good when done right...
But that's quite a cost difference there that the saving of 1 pump is going towards...
Might need to not use say 15 or 20 electric pumps... LOL

Lol funny shit, Im only really building the car for daily/drag.
b18c
95mm lightweight crank
5.9" h-beams
84mm 13:1 cr srp's
Erl superdeck II 226mm deck with billetdeck plate/ ductile sleeves
jg race b18c head
304deg 12mm in and 11.5 ex cams with Ti retainers, dual springs
Arp everything
AIRMAIL for everything $$$$$$waisted lol
Just to name a few of the parts, car been off the road for 3.5 years lol
hopefuly done in a month

[TODA AU]

Lol funny shit, Im only really building the car for daily/drag.
b18c
95mm lightweight crank
5.9" h-beams
84mm 13:1 cr srp's
Erl superdeck II 226mm deck with billetdeck plate/ ductile sleeves
jg race b18c head
304deg 12mm in and 11.5 ex cams with Ti retainers, dual springs
Arp everything
AIRMAIL for everything $$$$$$waisted lol
Just to name a few of the parts, car been off the road for 3.5 years lol
hopefuly done in a month

Nice, that sounds like it'll be a good thing, :thumbsup:
One thing that springs to mind with a set-up like that that’ll do you well to get sorted is the breather system.
95mm stroker engines tend to breath a bit,
Well actually a lot, particularly as the revs approach 8~8800rpm
The Endyne kit works really well.
As a side note, we also add fuel proof foam inside the can.
This will give added insurance that no oil will exit via the top of the breather can.
http://www.theoldone.com/components/breather/
The same kit can be made yourself, from Morosso & other parts, but it’s easier to simply buy the Endyne product.
NB: The breather on the rocker cover should have a filter fitted or be connected via a hose back to the intake.
Do not block it off or you’ll pump oil overboard via the can regardless.
If you still have breathing problem after this you’ll need to add a few more breather lines to the rocker cover but you should be right.

Another thing that’ll annoy you if you’re not expecting it is that you’ll also have to notch the bottom of each bore to clear the shoulder of the rods.
(Unless ERL was nice enough to do this for you.)
You’ll know what I mean after the 1st dummy build.
So you may as well do you 1st dummy build with old bearings & no rings.
If you don’t have any instructions, you want at least 1mm of clearance for all rotating / reciprocating parts.

Good luck with it…

[B18cEG]

Thanks for all the help ad i ended up buying the breather just then, yeah about the block i had to remove a little material from the crankcase walls to allow for the 95mm stroke and also the bottom of each sleeve like you said, i done it all with a metal file (by hand) to allow for the rods, best thing is the oil squirters still fit fine :) i got the raised deck so that i would have a good rod/stroke ratio so now its just better than a stock 87.2mm crank with the 95mm so should be still fairly rev happy, thanks again, i will do a post soon at i get some free time

[nd55]

Toda, any thoughts as to the nature of the crankcase and rocker pressure?

Larry Widmar said (somewhere) that Honda likes to run exhaust valve clearances very loose, and that he's had no problems running them at half OEM spec?

Any comments?

Nick.

[TODA AU]

Toda, any thoughts as to the nature of the crankcase and rocker pressure?

Larry Widmar said (somewhere) that Honda likes to run exhaust valve clearances very loose, and that he's had no problems running them at half OEM spec?

Any comments?

Nick.

Gee Nick, good question…
I’ll answer as best I can…
(Sorry moderators, I'm about to go way off topic)

If the engine is able to breathe well enough, it’s unlikely you’ll have an issue with the guides when within factory spec.
That said, running the clearances on the tight end of the factory clearances can pay off on engines that just seems to use oil regardless.
(Those that use oil & have evidence of oil exiting the engine via the exhaust valve guides)*
The factory clearance for the intake valve guide (B18C2) is 0.025mm to 0.055mm
Or 0.001” to 0.0022” (Thou) with a loose service limit of 0.08mm (0.003”)
The exhaust valves however run significantly looser than this with a factory clearance of 0.050mm to 0.080mm (0.002” to 0.0031”)
With a service limit of 0.11mm (0.004”)
If you use the wobble method (@ 10mm lift)with a dial indicator to check the clearance, you can basically double these values.
So anyway, the clearance is in the valve stem itself, the exhaust valve stems being thinner than the intakes & the bores of the guides being the same.
On a head overhaul, in general rather than replacing the guides, K-Line inserts are used & the clearance is set with a 5.5mm reamer or better, with a small hone.
In this instance it is common practice to aim for the low end of the factory clearance.
We like ours to be on the tight end @ 0.001” intake & 0.002” exhaust.
(Btw, this is pretty easy to achieve with Supertech valves & 5.5mm reamed or honed K-lines)*

Regarding your comment as to the clearances run by Larry Widmar,
Though we haven’t run exhaust valve guide clearance to the lower end of the intake valve guide clearance values ourselves, that not to say it couldn’t be done.
Larry is an old bugger with a great deal of engine experience,
So if he says that’s what he does. Then he probably does just that.
Personally I think on a high output engine, the tuning window may get smaller,
And retarded ignition values could cause some real issues. But it may work just fine.
I can’t really comment more than that, having not done it.
I will say do like & use Larry’s Endyne B-series breather kits.
They’re an excellent product & well worth the money.

*Another issue often overlooked is the clearance between the valve stem seals & the valve spring retainer @ full lift on the Vtec lobe.
If this clearance is insufficient (<1mm to 1.5mm), the retainer can act as a bit of a pump & push oil past the seal.
With the correct choice of parts, an alternative valve can give you a little extra length for a slightly taller installed height. With the correct spring, an alternative retainer & sometimes aftermarket valve stem seal. This is enough to give adequate clearance without rocket science.
If not, in some instances some retainers need to have a little shaved off the bottom to facilitate this clearance on high lift cams.
An alternative method would be to either lower the installed height of the guide,
Or physically shorten via machining before the stem seal is fitted.

As for the nature of crankcase & rocker pressure
The more power you make from a B-series engine, the better it’s going to need to breath. This is pretty much true of any engine.
It’s part blow-bye, part pumping & shit loads of oil flicking around & getting carried off in the air.
So for any high output piston engine, adequate breathing is a must.
It works best when the oil is separated from the air that is relived to the atmosphere.
& the oil that traveled with it is returned to the sump.
Dry sumps work even better by creating a negative crank case pressure,
with the blow-by gasses being exhausted off the tank through a breather.
But not everyone can afford this luxury.

So in short,
If the vale to valve guide clearances are on the tight side of the Honda values, the valve spring retainer to valve stem seal clearance is ok, & the breathing of the engine is adequate.
Assuming the engine is a sound combination, it’s assembled & tuned well,
You will likely have an engine that will make lots of power for what it is.
Not use oil & last a long time.

NB: A breather to atmosphere is deflectable on road cars too…
Hope that helps.
Cheers

Adrian