Honda euro questions [Archive]

Nathn

01-03-2009, 02:09 AM

Min988

01-03-2009, 07:53 AM

Yes V-power is fine,

Pod is good for sound other than that it doesnt really do much depends where you position is where you get different levels of of power.

Search for Pod installation, pod installation is pretty universal.

I use Pinnacle Leather Cleaner / Conditioner (I like the smell/slippery-ness)

traumatized

01-03-2009, 09:02 AM

Is V - power ok to use with the k24 engine?, I put it in last tank and car seemed to run a lot better then unleaded shell fuel so I cant see for myself anything bad happeneing but just checking. :p

I hope you were not running regular 91ron unleaded fuel, as the euro requires premuim fuel. doesn't matter whether it is caltex, mobil, bp, or shell as long as its premium (95 or 98ron)

Rein

01-03-2009, 09:59 AM

IMO if the car requires a minimum of 95, I would always go for 98. Which mean if I go to
Shell, I would use V-power
Caltex - vortex 98
Bp - Ultimate 98
Mobil - 8000 98
I don't think I will ever go to some random no brand petrol station, a lot of car enthusiast I know prefer to use bp ultimate because they say it's cleaner than the rest n better response from engine. It's up to you which petrol station you prefer to use, everyone has their opinion but as long as it's a 98, you'll keep ur K24 happy.

Anything to do with cleaning a car, especially if you love it so much like I do, you should always go for mcguires cleaning products, available through most major car accessory store. I use Mcguires leather cleaner n conditioner to clean my leather seats n it works great. There are other cheaper options which are not as bad, as long as it cleans n not stain the leather.

Rein

01-03-2009, 10:21 AM

With pod/cold air intake, I think a lot of euro owners here have the Injen CAI, if you drive your car daily, I don't think you'll notice much gains in power but you definitly notice the noice difference when you hit 4000rpm, you'll just hear the VTEC scream like a bitch. It is dyno proven, so u actually do get power gain but not much, a few kw (not double digits). You can always get other brands, a few traders here sell them. Becareful if doing your own pods (as in DIY custom pod) not to have it showing on the engine bay, cause if you get caught by cops u could get defected. If youre not sure on how to install, always go to a mechanic an have them install it for you ($40-$70) depends on which mechanic you go to. Try do go to a reputable mechanic (not going to name any as I know people have their own opinion on who they think is the better mechanic, pm me if you want to know, I know a few which I can refer you to)
In regards to fuel consumption, it's not too bad. Just as long as you don't get addicted to the loudness your pod/cai makes. If do you do then you'll just keep hitting VTEC n means you're a hoon n that's bad fuel consumption.

Most CAI can retail from $375 up to $1600. (injen cai $550-$590 depends on which trader)
It usually the 1st mod a majority of the euro owners here do.

The X Man

01-03-2009, 10:57 AM

Ask for leather care in your Euro, i use Zaino's Professional Leather System - http://www.carcareproducts.com.au/product/zaino/profeshional_leather_system

The cleaner works well and the conditioner actually smells like leather so it's a win-win.

Type R Positive

01-03-2009, 03:46 PM

What are good leather protection creams ect... to try and help the ageing leather? Dubbin leather dressing from the supermarket is the best thing you could ever use to bring back old leather.
Don't spend millions on other brand name crap, this shit is the best. ;)

Crapdaz

02-03-2009, 06:36 AM

Hello all :D, I got a few questions to ask about the honda euro..

what type of k's are people getting from a 04 manual euro from a full tank?

Is V - power ok to use with the k24 engine?, I put it in last tank and car seemed to run a lot better then unleaded shell fuel so I cant see for myself anything bad happeneing but just checking. :p

will putting a pod in a euro make a huge difference to fuel consumption? is installing a after market one worth doing for just that little bit extra performance? what pod should I go for if I want to have one..?

Where can I find a thread on how to install a pod, I think I know how to do it.. remove the stock air box then connect the pod ect... any threads on how to do it to a honda euro?

What are good leather protection creams ect... to try and help the ageing leather?

I know there are a few questions there but any help would be great

Cheers :thumbsup:
mine is an 03 with all my sh1t done to the car i manage to get around a constant 600km/tank which is filled up around 550km before light comes on.

V power is fine but imo i don't recommend it cause it sucks and lacks performance and gets exhausted to quickly.
Try another fuels but the top 2 i recommend would be BP Ultimate or Mobil Synergy 8000. Alot better in mileage & performance.

Pod filter will depend; if you install a short ram without enclosure so deals with sucking in hot air you might even get better fuel consumption.
Pod filter sucking cold air will increase consumption rate.
DIY it, it's not that hard and there have been numerous DIY on how to remove stock airbox etc been covered on other forums too.
Just make sure you remember where each nut & bolt goes when removing, when removed each one tape it to each corner on where it goes (on the box)

tron07

02-03-2009, 08:36 AM

VPower is good, I get free drinks and Ferrari cars to play with... vrommmm vrooommmm :P

Crapdaz

02-03-2009, 10:00 AM

VPower is good, I get free drinks and Ferrari cars to play with... vrommmm vrooommmm :P

rofl for you that's okay for me.

i can barely pull 450km before light comes on so i can only do another 50km before empty.
i reckon i am prob running a bit rich so fuel burns a bit more, prob just need a good tune up.

jyh888

02-03-2009, 11:47 AM

mine is an 03 with all my sh1t done to the car i manage to get around a constant 600km/tank which is filled up around 550km before light comes on.

V power is fine but imo i don't recommend it cause it sucks and lacks performance and gets exhausted to quickly.
Try another fuels but the top 2 i recommend would be BP Ultimate or Mobil Synergy 8000. Alot better in mileage & performance.

Pod filter will depend; if you install a short ram without enclosure so deals with sucking in hot air you might even get better fuel consumption.
Pod filter sucking cold air will increase consumption rate.
DIY it, it's not that hard and there have been numerous DIY on how to remove stock airbox etc been covered on other forums too.
Just make sure you remember where each nut & bolt goes when removing, when removed each one tape it to each corner on where it goes (on the box)

do you mean having a CAI increases fuel consumption?? why is that?

Crapdaz

02-03-2009, 11:54 AM

Yes, cooler air = increase of fuel consumption. <--- correct me if i am wrong but from what i noticed with CAI and SRI.

It's like saying the cooler the air the better the efficiency in the fuel getting burnt in the engine (more oxygen, burns faster).
So if you have warm air, it makes the fuel not burn completely so the fuel pump doesn't have to pump in extra fuel for the engine to burn up.

Hope you understand my retarded engrish!

integral90

02-03-2009, 01:49 PM

Car pumps more fuel in with cold air to keep the car from running lean as there's more oxygen in cold air than warm. Correct me if I'm wrong

Crapdaz

02-03-2009, 01:51 PM

Car pumps more fuel in with cold air to keep the car from running lean as there's more oxygen in cold air than warm. Correct me if I'm wrong
yup agreed,,,

burns more efficiently = more fuel used.

cold air = more fuel (worse fuel economy)
warm air = less fuel (better fuel economy)

thamwk

02-03-2009, 02:53 PM

i actually beg to differ...

with cold air, your engine runs more efficiently with better air/petrol mix, while conversely with hot air. though this is in the extreme case. installing a CAI will not automatically mean you will actually feel any real-world difference. you might "see" a difference on a dyno, but it doesn't translate to anything perceivable.

also, if you do see a worse fuel economy after a CAI installation, its usually a driver related variable that changed (i.e. heavier foot, etc.).

Crapdaz

02-03-2009, 05:24 PM

cai makes you rev more and results in higher rpm gain more easily.
sri makes better throttle response time.
and yes you may or may not feel the difference straight away but you will feel it eventually if your running an exposed SRI pod or CAI pipe

but this argument has been around for a while, another thing is not necessarily to the lead foot term, but can be from the mods making the car run richer which will mean it to burns more fuel.

Sp00ny

02-03-2009, 06:31 PM

integral90

02-03-2009, 09:47 PM

In a modern Fuel Injected engine...the engine has various sensors (oxygen, MAF, MAP etc) to determine the airflow and density entering the engine...

The theory behind a CAI (Cold-Air Intake) is to channel cold air from outside of the engine bay to the intake. Colder air is denser and has more oxygen...when your sensors pick up the oxygen change it compensates by adding more fuel to keep the Air/Fuel Ratio at "stoich" (approx 14.7:1 depending on engine type/tune) as we all know when you have the capability of burning more fuel at the correct ratio....you make more power...

Simple... ;)

However the ECU limits its changes with both fuel/duty cycle/ignition to keep within a safe range...so even if you add Intake/Headers/Exhaust...you will find you won't get any "real" power gains until it is tuned.

To say you won't get any real power gains without a tune seems a little iffy. I agree to harness the potential of your mods you need to tune, but engines are getting so good and so efficient at the actual combustion process that it's not hard to compliment them with better breathing mods and see good gains. But agreed, a tune is the most important step in modding.

jyh888

02-03-2009, 10:23 PM

To say you won't get any real power gains without a tune seems a little iffy. I agree to harness the potential of your mods you need to tune, but engines are getting so good and so efficient at the actual combustion process that it's not hard to compliment them with better breathing mods and see good gains. But agreed, a tune is the most important step in modding.

Oh ok never knew that lol, thanks for all the info. How can you tune the ECU??

integral90

02-03-2009, 10:25 PM

Oh ok never knew that lol, thanks for all the info. How can you tune the ECU??

You need to buy a tunable ECU. Either a piggy-back ECU which is like a half-way point between your ECU's commands to the engine, and the engine. This ECU takes the car's signals and edits them before they reach the engine. This makes them cheaper and simpler to install but they're more limited it what they can do.

Then you can do stand-alone (SA) which completely replaces the stock computer and gives you complete control over basically every aspect of the engine. More expensive, more control.

jyh888

02-03-2009, 10:40 PM

where can you get this stuff and whats the price range?? can you tune it yourself or do they come pretuned?

integral90

02-03-2009, 10:43 PM

where can you get this stuff and whats the price range?? can you tune it yourself or do they come pretuned?

Message the traders if you're serious about the price. I can't say as I don't sell them and the exchange rate is changing too rapidly to tell.

You can tune these yourself, but it's advised (and basically compulsory) to take it to a shop and get it dyno tuned. Every mod has a different effect on an engine, especially in combination with other mods. You need to have a completely unique tune done to your combination of parts. Running a generic setup will not only rape your power gains, but can be dangerous.

Sp00ny

03-03-2009, 01:40 AM

You need to buy a tunable ECU. Either a piggy-back ECU which is like a half-way point between your ECU's commands to the engine, and the engine. This ECU takes the car's signals and edits them before they reach the engine. This makes them cheaper and simpler to install but they're more limited it what they can do.

Then you can do stand-alone (SA) which completely replaces the stock computer and gives you complete control over basically every aspect of the engine. More expensive, more control.

True.

However a major point of Piggy back ECU's are they block off and automatically hi-jack the sensors input signals and don't let the ECU react to certain conditions to keep the car running at safe Air/Fuel mixtures...which is usually one of the reasons why when a piggy back is tuned the tables are usually tuned richer than stoich for safety expessially on turbo's.... To be honest on 4cyl N/A cars expessially newer honda's (which have been engineered and tuned to a very high efficiency already...it wouldn't yield much gain from a "bang for buck" view...)

Another major point is piggy-backs don't have the ability (unlike a Stock ECU) to adjust to the new air fuel ratio and change the ignition tables when suitable (as all they do is use fuel tables set by tuner, permanently)....which again CAN lead to pre-igntion, misfiring blah blah blah.... Having said that i know a few people with piggy-backs (DC2, S14a) and they are fine after many k's depends alot on the tuner... On a car like a euro...i personally wouldn't touch the ECU...

Just My $0.02.

ndeuro_

03-03-2009, 02:04 AM

but then the unburnt fuel will just go out ur exhaust?

Crapdaz

03-03-2009, 06:26 AM

where can you get this stuff and whats the price range?? can you tune it yourself or do they come pretuned?
ranges from $1000-3000 tune + equipment

tron07

03-03-2009, 08:25 AM

but then the unburnt fuel will just go out ur exhaust?

and you will have flames coming out... dragon fire

Sp00ny

04-03-2009, 01:59 AM

but then the unburnt fuel will just go out ur exhaust?

Yeah if your engine was running rich...it could go out your exhaust...the only real ramifications of running rich are shorter catalytic converter life, lower fuel efficiency and of course less power if its too rich...

The main concern to be aware of is if it runs lean...where engine cylinder temperatures rise and can cause knocking/pre-ignition. TBH with a euro...i don't see the point in tuning it...its meant to be a lux car not really performance...unless you use some sort of forced induction (Turbo or S/C) I couldn't see the car being that much faster as they are relatively heavy...

Probebly be better off selling your K24 and dropping in a K20 (Euro-R Style) or putting a K20 head w/ intake/headers/exhaust on the K24 block then your talking about some decent power gains... But Intake/Headers/Exhaust...even with a tune I couldn't see much of a gain happening...not enough for the money you would of spend anyway...

integral90

04-03-2009, 07:30 AM

Yeah if your engine was running rich...it could go out your exhaust...the only real ramifications of running rich are shorter catalytic converter life, lower fuel efficiency and of course less power if its too rich...

The main concern to be aware of is if it runs lean...where engine cylinder temperatures rise and can cause knocking/pre-ignition. TBH with a euro...i don't see the point in tuning it...its meant to be a lux car not really performance...unless you use some sort of forced induction (Turbo or S/C) I couldn't see the car being that much faster as they are relatively heavy...

Probebly be better off selling your K24 and dropping in a K20 (Euro-R Style) or putting a K20 head w/ intake/headers/exhaust on the K24 block then your talking about some decent power gains... But Intake/Headers/Exhaust...even with a tune I couldn't see much of a gain happening...not enough for the money you would of spend anyway...

I don't think the Euro's weight is a problem, a standard Euro with no sunroof etc. only weighs about 1360kg. That's almost 200kg lighter than a WRX with a very similar wheelbase. I think forced induction in a Euro is a bit iffy, it's still FWD and I'd prefer an NA tune with high top end power and a tight gearbox than a low down torquey engine, would make putting the power down ridiculous :p

K24 is a much better base to build for overall performance than a K20. Seeing as the K20a head is already so similar to the K24 head that, although there are gains, it's a mod you'd do if I had nothing else left to do and still wanted a bit more power. Still, I agree with the tuning part, that's why I'm doing all my mods first then getting the tune done last so I won't need to worry about a re-tune :D

Sp00ny

04-03-2009, 10:43 PM

I don't think the Euro's weight is a problem, a standard Euro with no sunroof etc. only weighs about 1360kg. That's almost 200kg lighter than a WRX with a very similar wheelbase. I think forced induction in a Euro is a bit iffy, it's still FWD and I'd prefer an NA tune with high top end power and a tight gearbox than a low down torquey engine, would make putting the power down ridiculous :p

K24 is a much better base to build for overall performance than a K20. Seeing as the K20a head is already so similar to the K24 head that, although there are gains, it's a mod you'd do if I had nothing else left to do and still wanted a bit more power. Still, I agree with the tuning part, that's why I'm doing all my mods first then getting the tune done last so I won't need to worry about a re-tune :D

Interesting View...

I was under the impression that not so many people would do K24/20 engine builds without it being largely benificial. Don't Forget the K24 Head Valvetrain isn't built to rev as high and also wouldn't be designed for top end power...more low/mid torque/response... I assume there would also be a reason why they used the K20A in the "Euro R" and not a K24... The block is a better place to start definantly agree with that...but head...I beg to differ...

Also I own a WRX and it only weighs 1240kg..... I'm unsure what WRX you were measuring but mine is a MY00... Also don't forget you maybe able to extract a bit of power out of the K24 by tuning/mods but without forced induction your still not going to have enough torque... However I also agree that Turbo FWD's are POS's for launch/traction/handling...

To me...the chassis/suspension dynamics aren't designed to be a "sporty" car... Its a luxury/prestige... Biggest mistake people make with their cars is making it something its not...your always fighting against the manufacturers intentions... Unless you go to extreme (very costly) measures to change alot of the car then it will always be what it was designed to be... a lux...

I have to admit a Supercharged Euro would be nice just to have some nice low/mid range pull...

integral90

04-03-2009, 11:14 PM

Interesting View...

I was under the impression that not so many people would do K24/20 engine builds without it being largely benificial. Don't Forget the K24 Head Valvetrain isn't built to rev as high and also wouldn't be designed for top end power...more low/mid torque/response... I assume there would also be a reason why they used the K20A in the "Euro R" and not a K24... The block is a better place to start definantly agree with that...but head...I beg to differ...

Also I own a WRX and it only weighs 1240kg..... I'm unsure what WRX you were measuring but mine is a MY00... Also don't forget you maybe able to extract a bit of power out of the K24 by tuning/mods but without forced induction your still not going to have enough torque... However I also agree that Turbo FWD's are POS's for launch/traction/handling...

To me...the chassis/suspension dynamics aren't designed to be a "sporty" car... Its a luxury/prestige... Biggest mistake people make with their cars is making it something its not...your always fighting against the manufacturers intentions... Unless you go to extreme (very costly) measures to change alot of the car then it will always be what it was designed to be... a lux...

I have to admit a Supercharged Euro would be nice just to have some nice low/mid range pull...

I think the reason they used the K20 in the EuroR was because it's basically already a track engine, with the tight ratios and the gearbox. Also it's still an R, so it needs to rev high :D

I thought I had heard somewhere that WRXs were around the 1500kg mark? Maybe my facts are wrong, but I've held dead even with a modded WRX when the Euro was stock (granted the WRX did have huge, heavy-looking chrome wheels). The K20 isn't necessarily designed to flow better at high rpm I don't think. I think most of it's benefit at high rpm comes from it's cams, valvetrain and intake manifold (matched with the stock ecu of course), but as far as the skeleton of the head goes I don't think there's enough difference to notice until you break the 8000rpm mark or so.

The Euro has always been marketed as a sort of sports luxury, atleast that's what it seemed like to me. I mean the Euro is basically the stepping stone from an Integra to an Accord, so you'd assume it would have some sporty design influence mixed in with the luxury.

I think after a dyno tune EUR003act will break 165kW atw, which in a car that weighs 1460kg or whatever his does, is enough for some pretty damn good performance.

I agree with all of what you've said, no doubt, but I'm just a firm believer in the potential of the Euro and the K24 :wave:

Sp00ny

04-03-2009, 11:57 PM

I think the reason they used the K20 in the EuroR was because it's basically already a track engine, with the tight ratios and the gearbox. Also it's still an R, so it needs to rev high :D

I thought I had heard somewhere that WRXs were around the 1500kg mark? Maybe my facts are wrong, but I've held dead even with a modded WRX when the Euro was stock (granted the WRX did have huge, heavy-looking chrome wheels). The K20 isn't necessarily designed to flow better at high rpm I don't think. I think most of it's benefit at high rpm comes from it's cams, valvetrain and intake manifold (matched with the stock ecu of course), but as far as the skeleton of the head goes I don't think there's enough difference to notice until you break the 8000rpm mark or so.

The Euro has always been marketed as a sort of sports luxury, atleast that's what it seemed like to me. I mean the Euro is basically the stepping stone from an Integra to an Accord, so you'd assume it would have some sporty design influence mixed in with the luxury.

I think after a dyno tune EUR003act will break 165kW atw, which in a car that weighs 1460kg or whatever his does, is enough for some pretty damn good performance.

I agree with all of what you've said, no doubt, but I'm just a firm believer in the potential of the Euro and the K24 :wave:

True the K24 is a great engine. But stock euro keep up with a rex?! Let alone a modded one...all you have to do is look at the stats to throw that one down the drain... Don't get me wrong... Although I have a wrx atm; ironically I'm looking into moving onto a Euro Lux...for the simple fact...i don't drive hard/fast and i would prefer lux/fuel efficiency over performance/handling...

a MY00 (the WRX i currently have) does 0-100 in 6.5 seconds and the standing quarter in 14.3 (if launched harshly...could probebly get less but would end up with no clutch/trans after a while lol)... Engine is 160kw/300nm into 1240kg.... the Euro is 140kw/223nm into 1395kg/1360 (luxury/base manual).... 0-100 8.1/7.8 standing quarter in low-mid 15's the lack of torque would hurt later gears but the manuals closer ratio's would help... I cant vouch for the rex's 0-100/ 1/4 mile as ive never tested it...all i know is i can go up hills in 1st,2nd,3rd AND 4th lol

A modded WRX if the launch didnt get you, after second gear...the torque would lol...

When your driving a Euro Lux compared to a WRX who gives a shit about performance when you've got the awesome interior to look at... Stylish, Elegant and featurefull...something we all know the WRX is not... not to mention 2L/100km's less fuel consumption!!! If you drive any turbo car hard you might as well aim the petrol nozzle down the drain XD

integral90

05-03-2009, 01:01 AM

True the K24 is a great engine. But stock euro keep up with a rex?! Let alone a modded one...all you have to do is look at the stats to throw that one down the drain... Don't get me wrong... Although I have a wrx atm; ironically I'm looking into moving onto a Euro Lux...for the simple fact...i don't drive hard/fast and i would prefer lux/fuel efficiency over performance/handling...

a MY00 (the WRX i currently have) does 0-100 in 6.5 seconds and the standing quarter in 14.3 (if launched harshly...could probebly get less but would end up with no clutch/trans after a while lol)... Engine is 160kw/300nm into 1240kg.... the Euro is 140kw/223nm into 1395kg/1360 (luxury/base manual).... 0-100 8.1/7.8 standing quarter in low-mid 15's the lack of torque would hurt later gears but the manuals closer ratio's would help... I cant vouch for the rex's 0-100/ 1/4 mile as ive never tested it...all i know is i can go up hills in 1st,2nd,3rd AND 4th lol

A modded WRX if the launch didnt get you, after second gear...the torque would lol...

When your driving a Euro Lux compared to a WRX who gives a shit about performance when you've got the awesome interior to look at... Stylish, Elegant and featurefull...something we all know the WRX is not... not to mention 2L/100km's less fuel consumption!!! If you drive any turbo car hard you might as well aim the petrol nozzle down the drain XD

You seem well educated with cars, so you'd know how much big heavy chromies affect performance, ESPECIALLY with an AWD. Also the new WRX weighs 1410kg according to their website, and from an article I read they actually lightened it from the previous model.

All I know is we were both WOT and it was dead even, we went from about 60-120km/h and he pulled around 1m. But for all I know he had only done exhaust, which wasn't enough to make up for the chromies.

Obviously the Euro has potential for performance, otherwise you wouldn't have so many people (myself included) modifying them for performance. The CL is a very nice chassis, and the K24 as other members have demonstrated, can make ridiculous power with N/A. Obviously the Euro is no ITR or CTR, but I wouldn't dismiss it as a luxury cruiser just yet :D

ndeuro_

05-03-2009, 01:11 AM

i saw a video on ytube that a stock internal kserie engine can withstand upto 44psi of boost before blowing =]

JunYu

05-03-2009, 02:17 AM

^it was in the eg yeah?

haha

ndeuro_

05-03-2009, 02:26 AM

yeah. u net junkie :D

crunkman99

05-03-2009, 10:26 AM

ok, i barley get 400kms out of my tank, i think there might be something wrong?

aaronng

05-03-2009, 10:48 AM

Maybe my facts are wrong, but I've held dead even with a modded WRX when the Euro was stock (granted the WRX did have huge, heavy-looking chrome wheels).

My colleague has a round eyed one that he put back to almost stock after getting red stickered (left the fart cannon on). It's faster than than my Euro from everywhere after 3000rpm. Euro has no chance.

Tempted to race you at WSID, but my gearbox and engine mount would shit itself.

Crapdaz

05-03-2009, 11:08 AM

lol then you can get a new one!!!

tony1234

05-03-2009, 02:44 PM

My colleague has a round eyed one that he put back to almost stock after getting red stickered (left the fart cannon on). It's faster than than my Euro from everywhere after 3000rpm. Euro has no chance.

Haha,true.Once turbo kicks in the Euro gets its ass kicked.:(

aaronng

05-03-2009, 04:00 PM

lol then you can get a new one!!!

I'm not rich, that's why I made my own airbox and bought $350 headers. :p

Crapdaz

05-03-2009, 04:03 PM

puahahaha im not rich either so i will need to diy my own front bumper when my one gets ripped off @ WP :p need to save up for a house.... sigh....

integral90

05-03-2009, 04:26 PM

My colleague has a round eyed one that he put back to almost stock after getting red stickered (left the fart cannon on). It's faster than than my Euro from everywhere after 3000rpm. Euro has no chance.

Tempted to race you at WSID, but my gearbox and engine mount would shit itself.

PLEASE come to WSID :D. What do you think your car would do?

Sp00ny

05-03-2009, 07:50 PM

You seem well educated with cars, so you'd know how much big heavy chromies affect performance, ESPECIALLY with an AWD. Also the new WRX weighs 1410kg according to their website, and from an article I read they actually lightened it from the previous model.

All I know is we were both WOT and it was dead even, we went from about 60-120km/h and he pulled around 1m. But for all I know he had only done exhaust, which wasn't enough to make up for the chromies.

Obviously the Euro has potential for performance, otherwise you wouldn't have so many people (myself included) modifying them for performance. The CL is a very nice chassis, and the K24 as other members have demonstrated, can make ridiculous power with N/A. Obviously the Euro is no ITR or CTR, but I wouldn't dismiss it as a luxury cruiser just yet :D

Interesting... I'm looking on my old rego sticker the TARE is 1240kg...according to carsales the Kerb Weight is 1280kg (half petrol, all fluids) as far as i know the bug-eyed and later ones (GD and later) where much heavier and are actually P-Plate legal because of the weight...

As aaronng said im pretty sure in boost a euro wouldnt have a chance against any version of the WRX... Euro's simply aren't that fast... The engine is great but the chassis is still at least 100kg heavier with less power and much less torque...doesnt make sense...unless like many WRX's its been thrashed and was making horrible power... The wheels would make a differance but I don't believe that much... thats something anyone would take the rims back for a refund if it made that much differance... lol

aaronng

05-03-2009, 11:56 PM

PLEASE come to WSID :D. What do you think your car would do?

20.1 minutes. I am guessing that is how long they will need to get the towtruck over to get my car off the track.

integral90

06-03-2009, 12:49 AM

20.1 minutes. I am guessing that is how long they will need to get the towtruck over to get my car off the track.

Your car would be fine! WSID is like one millionth of the abuse your car would get from Wakefield, but your car does fine there :D

Granted it's more stress on your clutch, but if you launch a bit softer there shouldn't be a problem. I think with your flywheel you could do around 15.4!

aaronng

06-03-2009, 12:57 PM

Your car would be fine! WSID is like one millionth of the abuse your car would get from Wakefield, but your car does fine there :D

Granted it's more stress on your clutch, but if you launch a bit softer there shouldn't be a problem. I think with your flywheel you could do around 15.4!

Stress on gearbox, driveshaft and diff as well. Wakefield abuse is different to WSID abuse. Wakefield abuses the engine, brakes, tyres and suspension. WSID abuses the driveline because of violent shifting. If I shifted on WSID at the same speed that I do Wakefield, I should get 17-18 seconds. hahaha

tron07

06-03-2009, 03:01 PM

ok, i barley get 400kms out of my tank, i think there might be something wrong?

stop reving and change gears at 3k RPM :p

Crapdaz

06-03-2009, 03:11 PM

NOOOOOO, it's because his using shell petrol.....

gumbel

06-03-2009, 03:42 PM

ok, i barley get 400kms out of my tank, i think there might be something wrong?

Try reset the ecu, check sparkplugs, change oil, etc....::search forum:: :thumbsup:

furythree

06-03-2009, 09:10 PM

wow im getting like 500 kms minimum at usually 600-700kms per tank
and i thought it was actually drinking petrol like a maniac

i noticed huge difference in distance i cud travel when i used 95 ron vortex as opposed to 98 shell vpower
I accidentlly picked up the wrong handle and decided to keep going. i dont think u can stop halfway and then start using another fuel. if you could, and they only cahrge u for the second one, then lol i miteve just discovered something to exploit

integral90

06-03-2009, 11:46 PM

Sp00ny

07-03-2009, 02:06 AM

You should get better mileage with better fuel cause your combustion is more powerful

If you are refering to 98RON resulting in a more powerful combuston than 95RON then your are mistaken.

In general terms... A lower octane rating petrol will produce a more powerful ignition than a higher octane *Due to additives/refining process not in direct relation to octane* ...Higher Octane petrols are designed to withstand greater levels of compression (both static and dynamic, eg. High Comp' Honda Engine or a Turbo Engine)... The greater ability a petrol has to pre-ignition due to compression/temperature the higher compression/boost theoretically can be run... Thus why 15:1 engines have to run on Alchol/AVGAS/Methanol... octane ratings moving from 98RON pump to the levels of these up to 110+...

However...the idea is... with a higher RON fuel the engines knock sensor etc. pick up and sense the smooth/complete combustion and advance timing which creates more power... but the petrol in general actually contains less "energy"... Also OEM ECU's are set to be conservative so the gains would be lucky to be measurable...

Personally I would use exactly what your car recommends as you will get a knock/ pre-ignition free operation and the most power/fuel efficiency...using RON that’s above what’s recommended usually doesn’t have any real advantages other than cleanliness...

Due to the fact Petrol companies market their higher RON fuels as their flagship...adding special additives/refining processes to ensure a cleaner combustion process...Making it difficult for one to choose a cheaper 95RON over a 98RON if they are picky about upper cylinder cleanliness...

Sorry if it seems like I’m picking on you integral90 (I’m not) but at this time of night (bored) my incessant need to post random knowledge gets the better of me lol XD Btw nice Euro Thread :cool: btw you wouldn't happen to know an average price (new/2nd) on the 5spoke Euro "Sports" Rims? I can't seem to find them anywhere...arggh...

* = Edit

integral90

07-03-2009, 10:15 AM

If you are refering to 98RON resulting in a more powerful combuston than 95RON then your are mistaken.

In general terms... A lower octane rating petrol will produce a more powerful ignition than a higher octane...Higher Octane petrols are designed to withstand greater levels of compression (both static and dynamic, eg. High Comp' Honda Engine or a Turbo Engine)... The greater ability a petrol has to pre-ignition due to compression/temperature the higher compression/boost theoretically can be run... Thus why 15:1 engines have to run on Alchol/AVGAS/Methanol... octane ratings moving from 98RON pump to the levels of these up to 110+...

However...the idea is... with a higher RON fuel the engines knock sensor etc. pick up and sense the smooth/complete combustion and advance timing which creates more power... but the petrol in general actually contains less "energy"... Also OEM ECU's are set to be conservative so the gains would be lucky to be measurable...

Personally I would use exactly what your car recommends as you will get a knock/ pre-ignition free operation and the most power/fuel efficiency...using RON that’s above what’s recommended usually doesn’t have any real advantages other than cleanliness...

Due to the fact Petrol companies market their higher RON fuels as their flagship...adding special additives/refining processes to ensure a cleaner combustion process...Making it difficult for one to choose a cheaper 95RON over a 98RON if they are picky about upper cylinder cleanliness...

Sorry if it seems like I’m picking on you integral90 (I’m not) but at this time of night (bored) my incessant need to post random knowledge gets the better of me lol XD Btw nice Euro Thread :cool: btw you wouldn't happen to know an average price (new/2nd) on the 5spoke Euro "Sports" Rims? I can't seem to find them anywhere...arggh...

But is it not the octane in fuel that combusts? So wouldn't logic say the more combustable content in the same amount would make a more powerful combustion?

aaronng

07-03-2009, 11:29 AM

Sp00ny

07-03-2009, 01:23 PM

Octane rating does not mean the combustion rating of the petrol. Octane rating is the RESISTANCE to ignition, which is actually the opposite.

As to whether a higher octane fuel has less energy per liter, you cannot generalise. It depends on the composition of the fuel, not on the octane rating. However, higher octane rating fuel does make use of additives to increase the octane rating, and that is where the lower energy content comes from. But a petrol manufacturer can choose to use higher energy content components to compensate if they don't mind the higher cost.

My point was more towards that just the use higher octane rating fuel does not make a powerful combustion. When Ive worked with engines without engine managment to componsate... (2-stroke/4-stroke) ive found that using a higher octane reduces power... regardless of brand of petrol.... It's best using the octane that the manufacturer recommends for best results. Although there isnt any direct relation between octane and energy however higher RON fuels whether its additives or not...do tend to produce less combustion energy... well in Australia anyway...my experience doesn't extend past that...

It goes hand in hand....in order to make a petrol higher octane usually there are additives/refining methods that are used that reduce its energy... I didn't mean to state a dependant relationship between Octane / Energy....they're independant but in most fuels...still holds true...

But is it not the octane in fuel that combusts? So wouldn't logic say the more combustable content in the same amount would make a more powerful combustion?

Octane isnt what makes a fuel combustable, as in my post it's what makes it less prone to pre-ignition. To determine octane rating it is measured with a relative amount of isooctane and n-heptane. So a fuel that has a RON of 95 would be equivilant to a mixture of 95% isooctane and 5% n-heptane.

Also the reason why American fuels have lower ratings isnt because they are poorer quality fuels, its because their octane ratings are an average between RON and MON. MON is "Motor Octane Rating" which measures the octane rating under load... Usually as a "general rule of thumb" these ratings are 10 less than the RON... American fuels are an average of both...usually meaning that their fuels ratings are about 5 less. So .... US93 ~= AU/EU 98.

However my point was, that in real performance terms the majority of companies use additives to make the fuel combust cleaner, reduce emissions and raise the octane rating instead of actually "cracking" the fuel at the higher Octane Rating...which in turn creates a petroleum with less energy...

As far as I know (from people on this forum and people in the industry) BP Ultimate is the only fuel in Australia that is cracked at "98-RON" one of those people that told me works for Mobil...lol

giant_mongrel

09-03-2009, 10:51 AM

ok you fuel people... bp ultimate or mobil 8000... i know its in another thread but you guys can have the last word

tony1234

09-03-2009, 04:09 PM

ok you fuel people... bp ultimate or mobil 8000... i know its in another thread but you guys can have the last word
I've heard from a number of sources that they're both good,also Vortex 98,but was told to stay away from Shell fuels.

integral90

09-03-2009, 04:11 PM

I've heard from a number of sources that they're both good,also Vortex 98,but was told to stay away from Shell fuels.

I've found Shell is better for torque but not peak power. Caltex is pretty good and Mobil is the best all-rounder. But then again I'm insane and swear I can feel the difference in drag when the tyres are a few psi too low...

Foot note: ignore me

giant_mongrel

09-03-2009, 07:53 PM

I've heard from a number of sources that they're both good,also Vortex 98,but was told to stay away from Shell fuels.

yeah that's why i didn't mention the v power stuff...

lol it was just a silly question, all these forums are always trying to dis one or whatever. i don't think there's that much difference at the top, noticeably anyway for our cars...

Crapdaz

10-03-2009, 06:23 AM

performance might not feel much diff,
and by using diff fuels you notice the engine revs slightly differently similiar to what you feel when you use old/black engine oil and do a complete oil change.
but mileage makes a big difference.
(overall in my car Mobil Syn 8000 lasts the longest;
BP ult revs smoother;
Caltex vortex 89 feels very average;
Shell V power is sluggish and rough revs)

bbell

10-03-2009, 07:27 AM

Crapdaz

10-03-2009, 07:36 AM

nice that is on stock right?

Atm with all my mods i can barely pull 500km with Shell; i fill up at 450 before light comes on and if i go to empty would be another 50km.
With mobil and BP i go 500-550 or greater before fill up before light comes on, mainly depending on how i drive.

In the end, i wouldn't care about the discount of 4c/litre because at the end of the day the amount you save with shell to the extra kms you get from mobil/bp; you know which one would be better.

bbell

10-03-2009, 07:39 AM

nice that is on stock right?

Atm with all my mods i can barely pull 500km with Shell; i fill up at 450 before light comes on and if i go to empty would be another 50km.

With mobil and BP i go 500-550 or greater before fill up before light comes on, mainly depending on how i drive.

Yeah straight factory, no mods. Strange you can get more out of Mobil/BP than Shell. Is this common?

Crapdaz

10-03-2009, 07:40 AM

well when i was stock before i got any mods prior when it use to be optimax; i would merely get 430km before light comes on for fill up.
It would always be around that 430km +/- 20km.

Then one day when i decided to change to BP and give it a go the tank ended up getting mileage of 600km before light comes on.
With driving the car every weekdays more city than highway driving.

On top with BP i almost managed Port Macq (1000km) to/from trip in 1 tank but got scared cause light came on so i decided to top it back up (stock car no mods).

Another thing bbell; how often do you vtec your car? e.g go from 6000rpm-7200rpm.

bbell

10-03-2009, 07:42 AM

well when i was stock before i got any mods prior when it use to be optimax; i would merely get 430km before light comes on for fill up.

Bugger so definitely running nicely to get around the 630km. And no that doesnt mean i drive like a nanna either. :)

Crapdaz

10-03-2009, 07:49 AM

bbell

10-03-2009, 07:52 AM

Yeh must be good for your car; Give BP ult or Mobil Syn 8000 a go and let us know how you go with it.

Mobil Syn 8000 when i did it first time it did 700km before light came on. I had pod filter and exhaust on w/ hi flow cat.

No worries i will give it a try and let you know. Nearlly time to fill up anyway. Might try Mobil and see if i can top your 700km. :)

integral90

10-03-2009, 08:13 AM

No worries i will give it a try and let you know. Nearlly time to fill up anyway. Might try Mobil and see if i can top your 700km. :)

With my exhaust done the car had exactly 15L in it and it had 170km left to go. Roughly worked out that's like 680km a tank with street driving (and I VTEC too much :o )

Hopefully would break the 800km mark on the highway :D

Crapdaz

10-03-2009, 08:28 AM

With my exhaust done the car had exactly 15L in it and it had 170km left to go. Roughly worked out that's like 680km a tank with street driving (and I VTEC too much :o )

Hopefully would break the 800km mark on the highway :D
If you do 95% highway; 5% city.
Try beat my 1015km before fill up to Port Macquarie and back.

bbell

10-03-2009, 08:32 AM

If you do 95% highway; 5% city.
Try beat my 1015km before fill up to Port Macquarie and back.

I am the opposite 95% city and 5% highway. Nice to get that fuel economy every tank though

Crapdaz

10-03-2009, 08:41 AM

That was once in a lifetime hahaha...

I normally do same as you 95-5% city driving mainly... not this half year cause of other commitments though.

blueuro

10-03-2009, 09:41 AM

i get max bout 470 out of mine??? and i put 95 oct .. this bad?

bbell

10-03-2009, 09:45 AM

wouldnt have thought that was great, mine is stock std and i easily get min 600k and thats not always driving sedately

giant_mongrel

10-03-2009, 10:52 AM

thanks for the info

ive been using 8000 for ages... better mileage than mates using ethanol fo sho

tony1234

10-03-2009, 05:00 PM

thanks for the info

ive been using 8000 for ages... better mileage than mates using ethanol fo sho
Any petrol is better than E10.E10 is crap.

tim-e

10-03-2009, 05:10 PM

When your driving a Euro Lux compared to a WRX who gives a shit about performance when you've got the awesome interior to look at... Stylish, Elegant and featurefull...
lol, I'm still a that stage with my car. :p

tim-e

10-03-2009, 05:12 PM

If you do 95% highway; 5% city.
Try beat my 1015km before fill up to Port Macquarie and back.I get to Glen Innes (New England Hwy) from Sydney before I feel I should fill up. Once I pushed my luck and got to Tenterfield. Must have been running on the smell of an oily rag by then.

integral90

10-03-2009, 05:30 PM

If you do 95% highway; 5% city.
Try beat my 1015km before fill up to Port Macquarie and back.

We'll see on the Bateman's Bay cruise!

Crapdaz

11-03-2009, 11:09 AM

We'll see on the Bateman's Bay cruise!

batemans bay isn't that far....
only 3hrs drive.... but yeh we can guesstimate it.

tron07

25-03-2009, 05:13 PM

cheap Vpower fuel

http://colesexpress.com.au/vpower/

Darkii_

25-03-2009, 05:35 PM

Haha thanks for the voucher =)

Crapdaz

25-03-2009, 06:37 PM

rofl i don't use Vpower rofl!

Min988

25-03-2009, 09:43 PM

I dont understand whats so funny, Thanks also for the voucher

Crapdaz

25-03-2009, 10:36 PM

vpower is crap for my euro.
only always manage to get 500km.

bbell

26-03-2009, 06:23 AM

vpower is crap for my euro.
only always manage to get 500km.

Well i filled up with BP premium petrol and got 590kms, whereas V-Power i can get anywhere between 600 and 640.

Crapdaz

26-03-2009, 06:34 AM

rofl i am the other way around.

Mobil syn 8000 gets the most, BP ult next but has better perf than Mobil.
Vortex 98 3rd then Vpower runs the sh1tz

tron07

26-03-2009, 08:00 AM

thats your car problem... during the cruise I got 700+ kms from 1 tank... lol

Crapdaz

26-03-2009, 09:33 AM

hahah ron but it's not a problem Or is it :p, if you consider the fact how many times me and liam vtec'd i am surprise i still ran 653litres before fill up at heathcote without light on. So would have had around 14litres still in the tank.

How many times did you vtec ron on the cruise?

tron07

26-03-2009, 04:21 PM

I had a hard time keeping up with you guys with stiff suspensions in the curvys, so have to vtec in 3rd gear in straight to catch up....

Come into the overtaking lanes, by the time you guys finish overtake the slower cars, the overtaking lane is coming to the end, so sometimes I dont have enough clearence to overtake safetly, thus I just drop back. Next opportunity arrives, vtec to catch up again.

I try not to follow too closely thus I dont need to brake and accelerate so often and cruise along as much as possible, I think its a good driving style.

Pretty used to drive small roads without overtaking lanes, so its okay for me.

Crapdaz

26-03-2009, 04:25 PM

I had a hard time keeping up with you guys with stiff suspensions in the curvys, so have to vtec in 3rd gear in straight to catch up....

Come into the overtaking lanes, by the time you guys finish overtake the slower cars, the overtaking lane is coming to the end, so sometimes I dont have enough clearence to overtake safetly, thus I just drop back. Next opportunity arrives, vtec to catch up again.

Pretty used to drive small roads without overtaking lanes, so its okay for me.

yeh it was funny though after each overtake lane you'd catch up with us.

i noticed that if i am in 3rd and i try to vtec it takes a longtime to reach but if i downshifted back to 2nd i hit vtec almost immediately.
3rd gear gave me around 3-4k revs; 2nd gear pushes up to 5k.