Drive by wire lag.......

[fab4272]

Hi All,

I have noticed in my wife's 2006 FD VTi auto that there is at times throttle lag when taking off from standstill, but not all the time, just occasionally.

I have searched previous threads (mainly for manuals) and some have noted Honda have explained to them that this is a safety issue built in.

How is a 20-50ms delay classified as a safety issue??? It has got me baffled. It was never there from when we bought the car at new and has crept in at about 20,000. Seems to me its a poor excuse to hopefully see the customer disappear. Does the car have some sort of 'AI' built in and decides, 'no, i will decide when to move, not you.....'

Also, I found this on Complaints corner

http://www.motorsm.com/complaints/update/display.asp?aid=2799

It mentions the DBW issues as well and on top of it the pinging that I have experienced (which I'm sure others have) and the same common excuse that dealers have used.

[ekdez]

hey,
i own a late 08' civic

yeah i have experienced this once or twice in the past.

the complaint refers to "The drive-by-wire electronic throttle system suffers serious hesitation and jerkiness" which happens to me when i am at high rev's going up a hill and changing from second to third gear. scared me the first time and now i just dont bother accelerating past 4000 rpm :)

i will be mentioning this at my 10,000km service.. and ill see what they say, n keep you posted.

ciao

[markCivicVti]

I've gotten so used to the DBW lag that it doesn't bother me.

There are plug in mods in the market (sprint booster is one) which promise to reduce the lag and generally increase the responsiveness of DBW systems... I've tried it on my FD and wasn't too impressed with the outcome... for 450 bucks you'd want a fairly obvious benefit.

See if your local tuner shop can let you trial the sprint booster.. see if you like it.

[preludeman]

The Company i work for (adaptronic) is currently trying to solve this issue with "lag" in Drive By Wire and also will hopefully be one of few ECU's that will be able to control this issue as well as well. Unfortunately you cant get rid of the whole "lag" issue completely as it isnt a "mechanical" throttle body but our system will eventually be more responsive then what the stock ECU can compute Along with changing everything else in your cars response with the ECU .

[renegadeice]

i've always had this issue with my car. i still bought it thinking that i would eventually get used to it. Took me a while but it's one of the things i've disliked most about the car.

[dave_L]

I know buddyclub have a device called drive-by-wire controler and it will help on the lag alot, my friend who bough one and he said he cant feel the lag anymore...
he told me buddyclub is offering free test on ur car, u just have to book it in and they will fit for u and u can go around the block before buying it, and i think its a good idea..

[Buzza]

I've got a new FD1 manual, and occasionally feel slight jerkiness in the acceleration in between gear changes particularly in the first 3 gears.

When releasing the clutch after upshifting, and then getting back on the throttle, you can feel the engine a little hessitant just for a moment. I've tried being as smooth as possible with the throttle and clutch inputs, but doesn't seem to help much. (Note: I've been driving manual cars for close to 20 years so I know the problem is not with me :p)

[fab4272]

I've gotten so used to the DBW lag that it doesn't bother me.

There are plug in mods in the market (sprint booster is one) which promise to reduce the lag and generally increase the responsiveness of DBW systems... I've tried it on my FD and wasn't too impressed with the outcome... for 450 bucks you'd want a fairly obvious benefit.

See if your local tuner shop can let you trial the sprint booster.. see if you like it.

I don't think it is a 'feature' that we should live with. It wasn't there when we bought the car, but it seems others have experienced it from day dot.

To me, it feels like an old carby fed motor which has just leaned out prior to accelerating.

Yes, I will be bringing this up with the dealer on the next service.......

[black8thgen]

ive got an 08 civic sport - and when using the paddle shifters in S mode - there is a jump in the engine when i gear down - and its pretty sudden too =/... but havn't felt it during gearing up or starting off.

[blasdf]

im not sure if ive noticed this drive by wire stuff, as im not 100% sure what it is exactly.

but im guessing i do know what you guys are talking about seeing im use to quick shifting down a manual to accelerate when needed and it took me a few attempts to get it smooth in this car, but now i can do it fine.

and changing up through the gears ive had no problems revving to 6800 or so and hitting next gear perfectly and no issues.

but down shifting correctly was what i noticed had abit of delay from press accelerator, to engine revving, but i think you can predict the delay in the change and compensate for it.

[FallenAngel]

ive got an 08 civic sport - and when using the paddle shifters in S mode - there is a jump in the engine when i gear down - and its pretty sudden too =/... but havn't felt it during gearing up or starting off.

That is normal with all cars having paddleshifters or tiptronic system of some sort. Its always jerky if you downshift, even at 2k rpm


im not sure if ive noticed this drive by wire stuff, as im not 100% sure what it is exactly.

but im guessing i do know what you guys are talking about seeing im use to quick shifting down a manual to accelerate when needed and it took me a few attempts to get it smooth in this car, but now i can do it fine.

and changing up through the gears ive had no problems revving to 6800 or so and hitting next gear perfectly and no issues.

but down shifting correctly was what i noticed had abit of delay from press accelerator, to engine revving, but i think you can predict the delay in the change and compensate for it.

Agreed, you just have to get used to it. I drive with it just fine now so its not really a big deal..

[Sherweeeny]

all cars are different so you have to factor in a bit of getting used to the car. if you think this little issue is annoying, try jumping into a brand spanking 1.8t CVT Audi A4 then come back with your complaints lol. i still have issues with it and its just a piece, otherwise a brilliant car, just let down by its transmission, anyways im babbling about an audi lol oops. yeah i have this with the DBW as well, but i dont understand how it is so shit, the bmw has DBW as well and was made a few years before the civic came out and it doesnt have any issues what-so-ever, so it must be a budget thing which can be fixed. just not by the dealer... for free.... or any price for that matter lol

[rossSmith1950]

I have experienced the same jerkiness also but its much better now the car has 10,000 klm on it. Also the dealer upped the advance idle speed which helped a lot, not sure if that was the right terminlogy as it was a few months back.

[FDBenni]

Yeh I've noticed the lag on the DBW but you get used to it. You have to give it a good blip to downshift smoothly, and with upshifts just need to get used to the timing, same with taking off.

[fab4272]

Yeh I've noticed the lag on the DBW but you get used to it. You have to give it a good blip to downshift smoothly, and with upshifts just need to get used to the timing, same with taking off.

I'm afraid its a bit hard getting used to in an auto.....

[oniononline]

what I found is if you keep your foot on the accelerator even just a little bit, would help to reduce the lag, another word, don't pull your leg away while shifting, something like 10% acceleration would do, but I'm not sure if that's bad for your transimission

[JOhnnyFD]

foodd.. haha

all cars have some sort of lag time from putting ur foot on the accelerator to the response from the engine (throttle response).. its just depends on how long the lag is.. and this could depend on how you drive your car, maintenance, and type of fuel u use??

this is sometime im not entirely sure about but can this be tweaked through the ECU?

as someone mentioned before, buddyclubs e-throttle booster looks interesting.. wonder how it affects FDs

[FallenAngel]

Sprint / e-throttle booster is a total waste of money IMO... Learn to use it and it'll be fine in the end... I hated it also before when i can't heel toe and shift smoothly on the track but with exp it changes... Same with for road use, give it some time and you'll get use to it..

Regarding the audi post, its the cost+quality of the actual technology and materials that makes the difference between the cars of the DBW system.

[4000gt]

hmmm.... funny that... the place i use to work for has a fleet of new hiluxes... all with dbw, and it had alot less lag than my mate's fd..... and don't forget we're talking about a work horse vehicle, not medium family sedan. My mate's new corolla is also very responsive....

Like with certain things, Honda just aren't getting it right.... (eg, distributors in older cars not lasting very long, window rubbers wearing out prematurely etc etc). Mind you, every car has gremlins.... this just happens to be the FD's.

[FallenAngel]

The controllers definately do work don't get me wrong.. just that is it really worth spending $400 ish on something like that..?

[Waternmo]

the sprint booster works really well when ur accelerating in the straight, it keeps the rpm hi for better shifting. but it can get quite dangerous in corners when u accelerate out of the corner, it revs all the way up giving alot of understeer. but for 400 bucs it makes a big different. probably more noticeable than installing a CAI.

[curtis265]

Anyone notice a bit of rev hang when you release the throttle too?

[blasdf]

i wouldn't mind trying one of these out. $400 isn't too bad. Isn't your car worth more than $20k?

rev hang, do you mean just sitting at 5k rpm for a bit when you back off from being at 5k?
i haven't noticed any on mine, but i haven't been looking for it. i'll try it out.

sprint booster, sounds interesting. just googling them.

[curtis265]

It's more obvious in neutral: rev the engine and hold it at a constant rpm... then let go, and watch the needle 'hang' for a split second.

[FallenAngel]

the sprint booster works really well when ur accelerating in the straight, it keeps the rpm hi for better shifting. but it can get quite dangerous in corners when u accelerate out of the corner, it revs all the way up giving alot of understeer. but for 400 bucs it makes a big different. probably more noticeable than installing a CAI.

Keep in mind that the sprintbooster does NOT give any performance gain, while the CAI does. I agree with you and the acceleration out of corners but thats not that big of an issue. But definately CAI > Sprintbooster


It's more obvious in neutral: rev the engine and hold it at a constant rpm... then let go, and watch the needle 'hang' for a split second.

Normal, the split second lag is because of the DBW system

[curtis265]

Normal, the split second lag is because of the DBW system

I wasn't asking why, but thanks for sharing.

[Waternmo]

yes, i do notice the rev hang, its like this for all ivtec cars eg FN2, it revs up a little so when u change gear it keeps it at a higher rpm.

i kno the sprint booster does not giv any performance gain, but what i meant was, the result after installing a sprint booster is bigger than installing a CAI.

[ej20i]

price comparison?

[curtis265]

I have the answer.

The rev hang is to protect the catalytic converter. When you release a conventional cable throttle, you still have unburnt fuel in your engine which gets sent out the exhaust. This unburunt air/fuel usually gets burnt in your catalytic converter, which over time begins to destroy it.

The whole purpose of the DBW lag is to reduce the amount of fuel burning going on in the cat and therefore increasing the life of the cat, and making the car more emissions friendly.

Sprint boosters don't real really reduce lag, they just exaggerate the input to the ECU, so if you press ur pedal to 50% throttle, the sprint booster might exaggerate it to 65% (i think)

[J-Spec23]

Sigh DBW makes my manual feel like an auto:(

[DC5-S]

Check out sprintbooster. Really good, eliminates the lag, increases your power however u will feel the engine will want to rev a bit more after u install it. Had it on my old FD and my mate has it on his FN2. Might wanna give that a try.....

[ej20i]

i use e-throttle by shadow, i think its the best thing ive ever bought for my car

[FallenAngel]

Check out sprintbooster. Really good, eliminates the lag, increases your power however u will feel the engine will want to rev a bit more after u install it. Had it on my old FD and my mate has it on his FN2. Might wanna give that a try.....

Incorrect, it doesn't not increase your power but it does increase the responsiveness of the throttle.

[Muzzy]

I'm afraid its a bit hard getting used to in an auto.....

I second that!
Going to ask the dealer at the next service which is coming up.

[ej20i]

its not that bad actually, installed it in my brothers auto fd

[howy]

its not that bad actually, installed it in my brothers auto fd

Tim, how much is the one that you bought?

[ej20i]

i paid 400 from shift performance by shadow, it has digital display and everything



u using ur exhaust?
which one u got again howy

[howy]

i paid 400 from shift performance by shadow, it has digital display and everything



u using ur exhaust?
which one u got again howy

ahh ok.

Buddyclub Pro Spec
Yeah I was but I took it off coz it was scraping before.

But now i got my coils on i've jacked up the front a bit so i'll probably put it back in soon :)

Getting the mugen kit installed pretty soon too, so if we're doing a meet soon we could do a shoot.

[black8thgen]

the rev hang occurs mostly at the change between 1st and 2nd gear - well it does quite a bit on my fd2 when im in paddle shift mode

[ej20i]

yea sweet, o ok, was thinking if u were interested to sell it thats al
LOL!

um we need a fd cruise ASAP!
havent had one in a while

[howy]

yea sweet, o ok, was thinking if u were interested to sell it thats al
LOL!

um we need a fd cruise ASAP!
havent had one in a while

oh.. icic. Did you want to buy it?

Yeah, let's organise a bbq or a lunch or something?

[black8thgen]

wait till i finish hsc man =[ - SO CLOSE 1 EXAM TO GO LOL

[howy]

wait till i finish hsc man =[ - SO CLOSE 1 EXAM TO GO LOL

Haha sure.
Good luck with it!

[curtis265]

wtf im still in my last week andi have an an assignment due tmr which i'm 'starting'

[black8thgen]

hahaha cheers.

man im so sick of school

[ej20i]

depending whats the offer howy,
comparing it with the j's racing exhaust which the blue tip is a big drool but cant hear the sound of it!

[FallenAngel]

Lol howy is stepping up now!!

If there is a meet coming up i'll come up in the new car ^.^

Anyways GUYS KEEP IT ON TOPIC!!