B16 stroker kit [Archive] - Ozhonda Forums

SiR JDM

27-10-2004, 01:10 AM

I was just thinking future for the future, boring out my SIR eg6 b16a to a 18?
It this an expensive/worthwhile thing to do? The extra torque would be useful... wat advantages / disadvantes ?
Will torque increase? If so, to as much as a standard b18c1/2? (vti-r)
Will I still have my agressive cams? And all the other b16a advantages ?

To put it simply (although this isn't all I would like to know), will it like a b16a with b18 torque and power... ie.. an improved b18c?

Also where do you get it done (buy these stroker kits) and how much do they cost?

I did a lil search but didn't find much specifics. I read a post by someone saying a b16a + stroker kit is esentially a b18cR? Is this true?

pgclee

27-10-2004, 01:44 AM

better eng up getting a B18C block and fit it on...and change those cams as well..or might as well change the whole thing...hehe...

changing the Crank is a good thing...but i think using a B18C type R block is much better, save you some money...and headache...if you wanna tare out your engine...getting those crank...assuming the price is around 400 AUD for crank, how bout conrods, another 2-400aud? piston? 400 AUD again...workmanship ?...may b 6-1000AUD...around 2000AUD at least if you wanna do that, but if you change a B18C block, ehh, may b just abit more money...then you will b quite happy bout the performance...thats what i think...haha..i think better consult my GURU, Mr Portstar...hahahha

1.6 - lack of torque
1.8 - Not bad on the track
2.0 - Drag machine!
depends where you wan your car to be at...
or just get a JUN engine...hehehe...18k - 24k AUD...hehhee...

SiR JDM

27-10-2004, 02:53 AM

well a b18cR block alone would be VERY hard to find and very expensive..
but id love one... but since i hear stroking the b16a to a b18 would give me b18cR performance (or close to it)..

1.6 - lack of torque, that is true.... hence why i plan to stroke in the future
2.0 - if i wanted to drag id spend the money on a turbo kit and boost it... but i like my "perfectly balanced car" (waiting for andy to kill me :P )

18-24k? Mate I dont know what type of money your playing with but were in dif leagues by a long shot hahah, i feel like im loosing money just reading that shit

SiR JDM

27-10-2004, 02:56 AM

btw i realised i think i might have posted this in the wrong forum, so admins shift if u think necessary

TODA AU

27-10-2004, 07:10 AM

Very under-rated mod...
Subtle with equal grunt potential to B18.

PhatSol

27-10-2004, 09:05 AM

Wouldn't the B18C have a better rod/stroke ratio than a stroked B16A?

SiR JDM

27-10-2004, 11:14 AM

Pricing? Anyother details?

pgclee

27-10-2004, 04:41 PM

you won't regret it if you go for B18cR....you'll be surprise what kinda power and corner speed and straight line it will do...haha...

panda[cRx]

27-10-2004, 06:10 PM

and the price pgclee
he didnt ask advice for engine swaps, he asked about stroker kits!

oh and u right james this should not be in forced induction (turbs/supercharge)

SiR JDM

27-10-2004, 06:32 PM

yea i relaised that afterwards.. i was reading F/I threads n decided to post.. forgot i was in this thread .. but yea... ne one else know anymore?

pgclee

27-10-2004, 09:49 PM

i was saying if he wanna stroke, might as well change to B18cR...

Weq

27-10-2004, 11:24 PM

i think what pcglee wants to say is that he should get a b18c and strok,e that to 2l :P

SiR JDM

28-10-2004, 12:08 AM

I found a Crown (or Crowln) kit that will stroke out to 2.12litres but thats over 2k US (50% deposit needed) .. i was thinking a cheaper alternative..

What will a b18cR crank, piston and rods do for me? will the displacement increase?
Wat would be the difference between the b16aII + ITR crank, piston and rods against a b18cR? Differences include... ?

crx_16x

28-10-2004, 05:02 PM

According to Honda-Tech you can use a B18 crankshaft, B18 rods and custom pistons to stroke the B16a out to 1.8L.

You cannot use the Type R pistons or any b18 pistons with the B18 crank/rods in a b16a as they were designed taking into account the 7mm taller deck of the b18c. That is of course unless you use a deck plate.

Adrian - Toda AU.

-Can you purchase the pistons from the Toda stroker kit separately?

-Does moving the wrist pin higher in the pistons (consequently moving the rings higher also), have any adverse affects on the engines oil consumption?

James.

SiR JDM

28-10-2004, 06:27 PM

Will this effectivly make b16a a b18cR? or close to it?
Ie - similar torque, hp output..

Would this increase/decrease/neither the life of the engine?
Labour costs (ballpark estimate) to get crank, rods and customs installed?
Will this requiring boring?

TODA AU

28-10-2004, 11:09 PM

Pricing? Anyother details?
For OZHonda members...
The TODA B16A 1800cc kit is $3200 - shipped direct
Includes, forged pistons, rods, crank & B/E bearings...

pgclee

30-10-2004, 12:41 AM

just import a new race A class engine..save all the fuzz....don't need to think soo much....stress...haiyo...

TODA AU

01-11-2004, 06:13 AM

just import a new race A class engine..save all the fuzz....don't need to think soo much....stress...haiyo...

Really??? & were do you supose that might come from...
The "Race A class engine shop" perhaps???
Or is Harry Potter just going to waive his wand and make one of these imaginary engines just appear...
Hmmm...

type one

01-11-2004, 07:12 AM

Really??? & were do you supose that might come from...
The "Race A class engine shop" perhaps???
Or is Harry Potter just going to waive his wand and make one of these imaginary engines just appear...
Hmmm...

hahahaha I agree with Toda AU very under rated mod... for half the price you have yourself b18c performance... I say get the Toda kit :)

If i could find a blardy b16 engine i would stroke it over replacing it... why replace a good block for another good block??

SiR JDM

01-11-2004, 10:34 AM

TODA AU

01-11-2004, 07:10 PM

I dont mean to offend or correct anyone, im asking this purely because i DONT know = ]... in saying that, type one, you said for 1/2 the price u get b18c performance?

$3200 ... u can nearly buy a whole b18c 1/2 cut with that? Wouldn't that be a better option? Or do you mean b18cR?

Toda will this stroker kit give same/similar performance to a b18cR ? or just a b18c?
How much labour would be needed to spent to do the internals?

The kit is capable of producing 270hp at the flywheel.
Of course this is on a heavily modified engine...
Spec B camshafts, valve springs, cam gears, ported head, sports injection, oil pump gear etc...
Using the ITR or CTR intake manifold the power out put is limited to around 240hp at the flywheel using Spec B camshafts.
Avoid the temptation to use Spec C camshafts on this engine combination as piston speed becomes too high at high rpm to be able to utilise ideal cam timing for strong low end performance.
For guys who don't want to go through the hastle of changeing engines etc, it is a viable option.
As an indivitual mod on it's own, the resultant performance scarcly short of that given buy a genuine ITR B18C7....
For those who already have CTR cams, or better again, CTR intake & ITR exhaust cams will see equal to B18C7 performance from their B16A.
Add Spec B cams & things start to get interesting... ;)
Additional costs involved are obviously an engine build...
Any other additional parts not already aquired (ECU etc)...
The removal & replacement of the engine & tuning...

Cheers

Adrian

SiR JDM

01-11-2004, 07:34 PM

type one

01-11-2004, 08:39 PM

yeah sorry i meant b18cR

PhatSol

01-11-2004, 10:02 PM

Of course this is on a heavily modified engine...
Spec B camshafts, valve springs, cam gears, ported head, sports injection, oil pump gear etc...

What is the oil pump gear required for?

TODA AU

01-11-2004, 10:16 PM

Thanx alot Adrian some very helpful information. Just a couple more questions.
I dind't get what you were saying about the ECU, is my stock ECU still able to be used? Or do i need to upgrade to an aftermarket or ITR one or something...?

Ball park figure for the costs involved to do the *engine rebuild*?

Will b16a cams be suffice?
Will this increase/decrease or do nothing to engine life?

thx mate

James

Hi James,

Myself, I believe that if you're serious about modifying your car, one of the first things on your shopping list aught to be a top-shelf, programable aftermarket ECU. (Though it is often an expensive proposition)
Addressing this issue off the bat will alow you to realise the full potential of each improvement you make after this...
Reason being the std engine management system relies on a MAP sensor to determine it's fuel & ignition requirements...
That in it'self isn't a bad thing, but becaue improvements to volumetric efficiency can neither be seen nor calculated by the std ecu, it makes good sense to replace it with something capable of being adapted to positive change...
Bearing in mind what is said above, your car will still run well on the std ECU with the adition of an increased capacity kit, though you'll certainly not reach it's full potential...

As for engine build costs...
Different workshops charge different rates & offer varying levels of ability & experience with particular engines...
That said, were we to do the job, you'd be looking at approx $1750 + parts & machining costs for the engine build...
Engine R & R + tuning are additional again...
Please bare in mind though that actual parts costs are up to the individual...
All new gaskets & bearings will pump the cost up in the order of $700~$800

As for engine life... Nothing that increases the power output of a small engine is actually doing it any favours in the engine wear department...
Further to that, the engine is only as good as the builder regardless of parts used.
Hope that helps...
Cheers

Adrian

TODA AU

01-11-2004, 10:20 PM

What is the oil pump gear required for?

The std oil pump gear is a sinterd item, prone to fracture at sustained high rpm - 8500rpm+
Using the TODA item negates this problem...
When the outer gear fractures oil pressure is lost & the engine will suffer a catastrophic failure...

SiR JDM

03-11-2004, 08:09 AM

TODA AU

04-11-2004, 05:56 AM

Thanx alot for the thorough info Adrian, been very helpful...

The reason i asked about engine life is that because alot of the internals would be new toda parts, wouldn't that increase life as it includes new pistons (forged), rods, crank and b/e bearings?
Would this count as an engine rebuild then?
Is boring needed/required/recommended in conjuction with the stroker kit?

Thanks again

James

Regarding engine life...
I mentioned previously that your engine is only as good as it's builder regardless of parts used...
There are a lot of shitte, cheap workshops pretending to know what they're on about.
These are exactly the sort of people who can & will quickly turn your box of top shelf parts into an expensive piece of junk.
Without pointing fingers or naming names, things you need to be aware of...
Attention to detail & the ability to work to a spec rather than a tolerance is critical...
The only thing the cheapest guy in the industry knows is the value of his time.
Cleanliness is next to godliness... (How clean is your favourite workshop?)
That said, your engine could last a very, very long time or it may last a number of hours...

Regarding engine build...
The crank rods & pistons are the core of the engine.
If you get all these bits appart & don't go through & rebuild the whole thing...
Save yourself future greif...Do it once, do it right...
Never use stock bore pistons if you don't have too... (Regulation racing is an exception)
Bore & hone is strongly advisable to achieve correct clearence.
Using a dummy head is important... So too is the correct bore finnish...

SiR JDM

04-11-2004, 08:43 AM

Thanx alot for your help and replies adrian.

Very much apprecaited.

Cold Fusion

02-05-2006, 11:08 AM

just one question...if i got a crower stroker kit for my 1.8l how much would it cost?, and do my merchanics have to do anythign to the other parts of my engine? or do all the parts in the stroker kit just fit in, (do u kno what i mean?) does my merchanic have to bore anythign out, or do the stroker kits do it for them? im confused about that...

thanks, i hope i made sence

[[d a n n y]]

02-05-2006, 02:55 PM

where the hell are these old threads coming from???

Slow96GSR

02-05-2006, 03:00 PM

EDIT ^^^OMG I didn't even look! LOL x 100!!! Oh well you all will read this and I will never have to say it again I hope! END EDIT!!

just one question...if i got a crower stroker kit for my 1.8l how much would it cost?, and do my merchanics have to do anythign to the other parts of my engine? or do all the parts in the stroker kit just fit in, (do u kno what i mean?) does my merchanic have to bore anythign out, or do the stroker kits do it for them? im confused about that...

thanks, i hope i made sence

Crower doesn't offer a kit that drops right in. You have to bore then hone the block. They do make a kit to stock specs but you still have to hone it to make the rings seat perfectly. A good cross hatch is what allows the rings to seat, they will scratch in to the walls of the cylinder as they are a stronger material but the x-hatch allows the oil to bond/stick to something but not blow by. A full Crower kit starts at $1500USD +S&H and they go up. That kit would really be an Eagle crank, Eagle rods, and JE pistons. Crower also uses SRP and CP pistons. You can order any off the shelf kit or have a custom kit made, but that adds to the cost. Email dustin@crower.com and he can get a detailed list for you. Might not be able to give prices since you are not a dealer.

Cold Fusion

03-05-2006, 02:22 PM

i dont want to have too much exstra cost involved...i need a new crank at the moment and im not sure which direction to go (sell car or do it up) what do you reckon?

how much are good cranks on there own? id want to upgrade and get a better one than stock, and then id get good pistons and rods and cams...HELP! thanks :)

Cold Fusion

03-05-2006, 02:23 PM

]']where the hell are these old threads coming from???

you guys always cry about people not searching, so i searched and found this but i wanted more info, if i just put a new thread up asking for more info i would of been told to search...

IndoStyler

03-05-2006, 02:30 PM

you guys always cry about people not searching, so i searched and found this but i wanted more info, if i just put a new thread up asking for more info i would of been told to search...

damn....cant win either way....ur damned if u do n ur damned if u dont

dc2dc2dc2

03-05-2006, 02:31 PM

lolz...thread revived y0 ! i rekon its good that u searched !! top work

BlitZ

03-05-2006, 03:02 PM

ginganggooly

03-05-2006, 04:24 PM

why do people stroke a 1.6 to 1.8 when u can get a b18c? is there any advantages with the longer stroke?

is there any reason why the b16b utlised the same block as the b18c and not the b16a (correct me if im wrong)??

never understood the logic behind stroking the b16's either. would have thought that due to being able to fit longer rods into the thing, the b18c would be a technically better bet. Probably cheaper too... i'd hate to think of how much getting a toda stroker kit supplied and installed into a b16a would cost.

Slow96GSR

03-05-2006, 05:25 PM

These are some pages with good info, some are forums and some are papers. Some are for Chevy/ford and some are Honda related. All will give you a basic idea with out me having to type it all out. Here (http://www.jdmcivic.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13519), here (http://www.mustangmonthly.com/techarticles/17460/index1.html), here (http://www.g-speed.com/pbh/stroker-info.html), and here (http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21053).

Yes a Toda kit costs a lot, so does a Crower kit. But no everyone wants to swap out blocks just so they can have the motor already set there. A stroker kit does more then just displacement. After you read those papers you'll see why. Avg cost is $1,500USD + machining and install. So like 2kAUD then like 250 S&H and what ever the cost of labor is down there. How much is a NEW block and NEW internals. You have to remember these kits have ZERO miles on them. Never a guarantee a used parts isn't bad, same with new but less likely.

Dylanamus

13-05-2006, 03:07 PM

Probably work out cheaper to use the Toda stroker kit if, instead of comparing it to just an ITR engine swap, you compare it to a swap with aftermarket internals - which is precisely what you get from the Toda kit. Also compare Toda's quoted cost of worksmanship for the stoker to Toda's quoted cost of a b18cR engine swap. It will be inaccurate to compare Toda's cost for installing the stroker to a small local workshop's cost of an engine swap.
Personally I think if you already have a b16a car and are thinking 1.8, the Toda stroker kit isn't a bad idea, especially if you plan on going beyond ITR components - ie aftermarket intake, header, headwork etc... then you'll just end up spending months trying to sell off all the ITR bits and pieces anyway...

**Ghost**

29-05-2006, 05:19 PM

ginganggooly

29-05-2006, 06:46 PM

has neone considered that even if u say its the same amount of dollars for a Stroker Kit and for a B18CR (which its not, a B18Cr costs around $6000) ur getting in the end

1. an old engine if u get the b18Cr

2. an essentially as new as can get rebuilt engine from bottom end up for the stroker kit?

I can definitely see the advantages of #2

i've seen b18c7's going for the 6-7k mark with the fancy shmancy transmission. add maybe 1500 to swap it out, plus the money you get on selling the b16a, and who knows, you may get the lot done for $6k...

the toda racing website lists the stroker kit as $5280.00. Add the labour charges of a trustworthy engine builder, and you're probably looking at closer to $10k all up.

anyway... what happens when you stick a stroker crank into a b16a block, i'm imagining that the r:s ratio suffers a tad.

EGB16A

29-05-2006, 08:21 PM

i've seen b18c7's going for the 6-7k mark with the fancy shmancy transmission. add maybe 1500 to swap it out, plus the money you get on selling the b16a, and who knows, you may get the lot done for $6k...

the toda racing website lists the stroker kit as $5280.00. Add the labour charges of a trustworthy engine builder, and you're probably looking at closer to $10k all up.

anyway... what happens when you stick a stroker crank into a b16a block, i'm imagining that the r:s ratio suffers a tad.

Roughly $8k fitted etc, but don't think about cams or anything else for that price. And we all know the price of cams/ headers/ ehaust/ intake blah blah blah.... just incase your interested:wave:

spardikis

30-05-2006, 07:32 PM

hey guys.. interesting read.. here are the plans that my brother in NZ is currently doing... and umm you can get a stroker kit from the states for 1200us including eagle crank, rods, rod bolts forged pistons and crank n rod bearings...

anyway. b16a block, bore to 84mm, stroke to 1800cc, darton sleeves and semi closed deck, crank rods pistons. all on boost!! hoping to do 300kw+ atw on 18psi

oh yeah and building, assembling everything ourselves (meaning him) if u have any questions email him.. .jakepitsville99@hotmail.com