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S2kane
18-04-2009, 07:57 PM
Yeah I'm sure your gonna say Rossi ( if your a noob) or Agostini..
But I've never seen anyone control a bike as good as Mick Doohan.

You don't see riders drift like this with all the electronics they have these days.

http://image.motorcyclistonline.com/f/15798404/122_0904_01_z+legend_mick_doohan+front_view.jpg

damienm
18-04-2009, 08:05 PM
weve seen melandri drift with one hand lol

CRXer
18-04-2009, 08:28 PM
weve seen melandri drift with one hand lol

my fav drift of all time,last corner onto the straight at phillip island to take the chequered flag......track was wet/damp too wasnt it???

melandri ftw

rossi aint no noob choice either he can throw it round when he wants too.

totti
18-04-2009, 08:41 PM
yeah cause drifting a bike is the fastest way around a track :rolleyes:

SHOGUNOVDDRK
18-04-2009, 08:45 PM
Mick Doohan was and still is my favourite.

I guess the nostalge of watching him on Saturday afternoons is what does it.

Jomsy
19-04-2009, 12:33 PM
modern day sports bikes with slipper clutches will back into just about every corner and drift out

totally agree with you about Mick, id kill to ride the last gerneration NSR500

onecoop
19-04-2009, 02:15 PM
I used to follow Motor GP closely until they first introduced the Ducati Twins and now its just glorified superbikes.

Bring back the days of Kevin Schwantz, Wayne Rainey & Wayne Gardener! The 500's were evil back then and required some real skills. Many riders tried crossing over from superbikes and failed...

flipfire
19-04-2009, 02:36 PM
You don't see riders drift like this with all the electronics they have these days.

:wave:

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4746/kingofdrift.jpg

chunky
19-04-2009, 02:44 PM
^lmfao

e240
19-04-2009, 05:59 PM
Why would saying Rossi mean you're a Noob? I'm from the days for the Wayne Rainy's, Gardner's, doohan and I'm of the opinion that Rossi is the only one who can ride shoulder to shoulder with any of them. Don't forget Rossi is the last of the 500cc Champions and he easily surpasses Doohan.




Yeah I'm sure your gonna say Rossi ( if your a noob) or Agostini..
But I've never seen anyone control a bike as good as Mick Doohan.

You don't see riders drift like this with all the electronics they have these days.

http://image.motorcyclistonline.com/f/15798404/122_0904_01_z+legend_mick_doohan+front_view.jpg

Type S Tony
19-04-2009, 06:04 PM
Rossi = Great champion, his won alot of races & thats what counts, call me a noob if u like but Rossi gets the results, I also have to say that I think Casey Stoner is also doing really really well since he started out in superbike! Go Casey!!!!

s2ky_
19-04-2009, 06:28 PM
If you want to talk about bike control, you cant go past Gary Mccoy, If anyone has seen the documentary Faster Narrated by Ewen Mcgregor, you'll see him slipping and sliding his way to win a GP race on a 500 2 stroke

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obrL4f7-6WI

nvmee
19-04-2009, 08:29 PM
Rossi = Great champion, his won alot of races & thats what counts, call me a noob if u like but Rossi gets the results, I also have to say that I think Casey Stoner is also doing really really well since he started out in superbike! Go Casey!!!!

the way they ride is quite different. stoner is reckless if u ask me, rossi is a more smoother rider and nuts is at controlling throttle, late braking brakes, riding clutches to slow down . with casey its kinda of like this - full gas, hard brake and full gas again. in saying that he can control what nicky hayden cant and he is still only 22. how many 22 year olds have won a motogp motogp?

the problem with gp now is that like jorge lorenzo said " its a 2 man race" being stoner and rossi. although it will be interesting battle when the track will be less straights and more twisties. i admire their skills and their god damn fitness !

S2kane
19-04-2009, 09:49 PM
I forgot about Melandri that was damn good, He should never have left Honda.. I love Rossi he would be my second or third favourite but he's not the best ever.. Most successful yes.. McCoy could get on the brakes hard and slide into corners because of his speedway background much like Nicky Hayden was doing for a while.. But it kills your tyres. But Mick.. He did some awesome shit! I remember a race in assen, he came sliding out of a corner all crossed up the dove into the next corner between crivelle and Barros and took the lead.. madness.

krogoth
20-04-2009, 09:40 AM
isnt stoner supposed to be really good?

not comparing him to the greats of course, but he seems to have quite the future ahead of him

Type S Tony
20-04-2009, 09:54 AM
Stoner, vermulen, great Aussie Riders with big futures ahead of them, Like Nvmee said, stoner is only like 22 and Vermulen is even younger i think, so keep an eye out for them!

e240
20-04-2009, 09:59 AM
I love Rossi he would be my second or third favourite but he's not the best ever.. .

I think he is - He's done the impossible that most or no other 500cc / motogp dared to do...

Move from a winning successful package to a "shitty" package and won the title in the first year.

I remember his last race on the Honda RCV at Philip Island where he took a time penalty under a yellow - He then stepped up the pace and went on to win by a further margin of 20~30 seconds.

Nup - He is definately the best we've seen in decades. His ability is that he's able to make do with a less than perfect package whilst most others need the perfect package to win.

S2kane
20-04-2009, 10:14 AM
Stoner is an awesome rider.. i wish Honda chose him instead of pedrosa !
The Ducati is not the best bike and the fact that he won a championship on it is amazing.
Casey is one of the hardest working and determined riders i have ever seen.
My money is on Stoner wining it this year =)

Lowa
20-04-2009, 10:30 AM
I forgot about Melandri that was damn good, He should never have left Honda.. I love Rossi he would be my second or third favourite but he's not the best ever.. Most successful yes.. McCoy could get on the brakes hard and slide into corners because of his speedway background much like Nicky Hayden was doing for a while.. But it kills your tyres. But Mick.. He did some awesome shit! I remember a race in assen, he came sliding out of a corner all crossed up the dove into the next corner between crivelle and Barros and took the lead.. madness.

Acually if you have a look at the doco that s2ky was talking about, they explained that the way Mccoy the way he was riding with the rear tyres spinning that it didnt wear it out as fast as if he was gripping.

see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGIPmTLSxGI

S2kane
20-04-2009, 12:48 PM
Yeah seen it, But I'm talking about sliding the bike into corners with the back wheel locked up...Speedway style. Not spinning the wheel up out of corners.

CRXer
20-04-2009, 01:18 PM
Yeah seen it, But I'm talking about sliding the bike into corners with the back wheel locked up...Speedway style. Not spinning the wheel up out of corners.

in that case what about everything locked up wrong way into corner

vermuelen defying laws of nature (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLfLUj6nZ5U)

timizkool
20-04-2009, 03:38 PM
Yeah I'm sure your gonna say Rossi ( if your a noob) or Agostini..
But I've never seen anyone control a bike as good as Mick Doohan.

You don't see riders drift like this with all the electronics they have these days.


How can Rossi not be the best if he is the only rider to have won every single class with 3 different manufacturers???

He has won with Aprilia, Honda & Yamaha in 125cc, 250cc, 500cc, 990cc, 800cc.

No other rider has done that and no other rider will. 2 strokes aint comin back to the premier class. Also drifting and neat tricks like that dont help riders win races.. they gotta know how to manage their tyres, fuel load, consistent racing lines, defending positions, etc, etc

:)

CRXer
20-04-2009, 04:07 PM
Also drifting and neat tricks like that dont help riders win races.. they gotta know how to manage their tyres, fuel load, consistent racing lines, defending positions, etc, etc

:)

the rider who can control a bike at more angles or states of adhesion,ie perform more "neat tricks",than the other riders,ususally has more passing options,considering u usually have to run off line,deep into a corner to do it.

the fastest rider is gonna be on the limit & therefore chances are sometimes over the limit,so ur hardly gonna win a race if ur sitting on ur arse in a sand trap,cos u couldnt control a slide of any sort.

the only way ur gonna run consistent race lines is if u lead the whole race,from pole to the finish & your tyres dont degrade & the weather stays the same.

i think its blindingly obvious to everybody that u cant drift a whole race for a win & nobody has stated that above.

Philip Lee
20-04-2009, 04:21 PM
Rossi is good but look at his competition in the premium class: Max Biaggi, Sete Gibernau etc etc are hardly top of the tree. also please remember he took over Mick Doohan's crew when Doohan retired and took them with him when he switched to Yamaha.

he arguably has the best bikes, tyres and mechanics until the Ducati and Stoner came along.

however no doubt Rossi is good. but if he was racing against Doohan/Schwantz/Rainy/Lawson etc etc. he wouldn't have won as many races he has.

S2kane
20-04-2009, 04:30 PM
"they gotta know how to manage their tyres, fuel load, consistent racing lines, defending positions, etc, etc"

Mick did that better than anyone else, A master tactician.

I'd be the first to admit you cant argue with Rossi being the most successful!! Unless you count Agostini's 15 world titles..

SteveH
20-04-2009, 09:35 PM
Rossi is good but look at his competition in the premium class: Max Biaggi, Sete Gibernau etc etc are hardly top of the tree. also please remember he took over Mick Doohan's crew when Doohan retired and took them with him when he switched to Yamaha.

he arguably has the best bikes, tyres and mechanics until the Ducati and Stoner came along.

however no doubt Rossi is good. but if he was racing against Doohan/Schwantz/Rainy/Lawson etc etc. he wouldn't have won as many races he has.

You could say the same about Mick Doohan though. He won his titles after Rainey and Co had all retired. The biggest thing about your Doohan's, Rossi's, etc. is that they are just so far ahead of everyone else, that you think the other riders are ordinary. The great riders are able to step it up when they are challenged.

No one has mentioned Mike Hailwood as he is often rated the best rider of all time as he was able to win across different classes. I am not sure Agostini was as great as his race wins suggest. He won a lot of races on far superior multi cylinder machines while most of the field were still racing single cylinder Norton's and the like

e240
20-04-2009, 10:11 PM
Troy Bayliss - I thought he was very good too

Philip Lee
21-04-2009, 03:52 PM
You could say the same about Mick Doohan though. He won his titles after Rainey and Co had all retired. The biggest thing about your Doohan's, Rossi's, etc. is that they are just so far ahead of everyone else, that you think the other riders are ordinary. The great riders are able to step it up when they are challenged.


regarding Doohan, 92 should have been his first title until his crash at Assen. obviously it was his own mistake but he has been proven to be able to mix it with the other greats of the (golden?!) era.

while Rossi, in my view had it much easier. maybe he was/is head and shoulder above his peers but my point was, due to the relative lack of competition, he could break records much easier than the generations before him.

in a way Rossi is a bit like Schumacher (in terms of competition and records).

e240
21-04-2009, 04:32 PM
while Rossi, in my view had it much easier. maybe he was/is head and shoulder above his peers but my point was, due to the relative lack of competition, he could break records much easier than the generations before him.

in a way Rossi is a bit like Schumacher (in terms of competition and records).

Huh? Don't take that away from Rossi, its nothing like F1 - Rossi went to Yamaha, to an obviously inferior bike and still won - Honda threw everything they had - Even now, the Ducati is obviously a more Superior Bike - Just look at it down the straight, the Yamaha doesn't even have the pace to keep up and they're just about equally matched in the corners (Ducati makes great bikes!).

Its a great rider who can make it look so easy that observers think that its just easy. Sometimes, just look at what Rossi does just to keep up with the current batch of competitors, its subtle but amazing.

If Rossi were riding with the giants of old, I'm pretty sure he would hold his own and even beat them. Even Doohan has admitted that Rossi is the best.

Philip Lee
22-04-2009, 12:26 PM
Remember Schumacher (Rossi) switched from Benetton (Honda) after winning titles to Ferrari (Yamaha) and built it up and won a few more titles??

obviously you can't directly compare them but the story line was similar.

i wouldn't say Duc is a superior bike to Yamaha. Duc in the hands of Stoner is great but no one else could do anything on it yet which is a mystery. on the other hand, Lorenzo, Edwards are doing pretty well on a Yamaha.

i'm not taking anything away from Rossi. he surely is one of the greats but my point is one can't just look at his record to say he is better than other greats like eg. Wayne Rainy. i'm sure he can mix with them but surely Rossi won't win as many races as the record book currently says.

nvmee
22-04-2009, 09:26 PM
Not to mention Nicky Hayden, I wonder what the secret it !