Help!! b16a starting problems

[B005HA]

hi guys I need help diagnosing a problem with my 96 crx. It will not start it cranks over, has spark, and compression on engine is perfect. The problem is there is no fuel when i turn the car to ON the fuel pump does not prime at all and when i crank the car the EFI relay crackles and sounds like it's arching, When it works this doesn't happen.
The relay clicks a couple of times like it normally should and everything, but the fuel pump still doesn't prime still. I have tried a working relay out of my freinds crx and we still get the exact same problem, so it isn't the relay itself. it has done it a few times before.
Sometimes it wont start and then it will start again 10 minutes later or hours later or days later. it's now been a couple of days and it's driving me nuts. I hope you guys can maybe help me figuire out what is going on, I'm sure someone on here must have
some knowledge or experience with this sorta problem.

Any help or advice will be much appreciated guys.

Thanks, Tim.

[Limbo]

check the pump is earthed correctly & try running the pump briefly from direct power also to see if it is working

[B005HA]

ok so i did that LIMBO (thanks ;) ) and now the fuel pump is priming, there is fuel pressure and i'm pretty sure the injectors are pulsing. There is also spark on the leads and the plugs are sparking. I don't know what else to check. Like i said the car cranks over but is doesn't fire. And when it does decide to work it just starts up with out a trouble in the world which it did this morning so i let it run for half an hour turned it off tried to turn it on 10 minutes later and it doesn't start again, same thing starter motor cranks but the car wont fire.
I'm sure there are some tech heads out there who can help me please. LOL this is driving me nuts :(

[omgzilla]

Using test light: check for power to the pump when ignition is turned on.
If there is no power: check power at output side of relay.
If there is no power at the relay output: check power to the relay (input).
If there is no power getting to the relay - possible ECU output issue.

Check out your main relay too - there's a DIY here: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31796

Don't forget to check earthing side of circuit for your fuel pump as well as positive!

Let us know how you go.

[crizby]

Hi im B005HA's [OP] mate chris..

The problem is still occuring. Originally we thought it could be a faulty main relay but we swapped the one out of my CRX and still had the same problem.

The difficulty we are having is that when the car starts it runs fine and there is no way to identify the problem. But when it doesnt start well there is no way to diagnose whats going on..
Im convinced its either an ecu output or intermittant relay issue but boosha has been convinced otherwise after reading the forum and testing the parts.

Does anyone have any other suggestions? The car has been off the road for 3 months now [boosh lost his licence anyway] but we would like to fix it soon. I havent really looked at it for a while but i think ill put a day into it in a week or so and would be appreciative of any further direction

Cheers,
Chris

[OMG.JAI xD]

Im not sure if this is entirely related.


But have you guys checked your air input?
As in, are your idle controls working? Take your intake off and observe the position of the throttle body butterfly. It should be partly opened.
Crank the engine and observe how the throttle butterfly behaves.

Just thought id give an input. Seeing as you have fuel, compression and spark.
Also give us an insight of how this started happening.

[Bludger]

Im not sure if this is entirely related.


But have you guys checked your air input?
As in, are your idle controls working? Take your intake off and observe the position of the throttle body butterfly. It should be partly opened.
Crank the engine and observe how the throttle butterfly behaves.

Just thought id give an input. Seeing as you have fuel, compression and spark.
Also give us an insight of how this started happening.what you've suggested has nothing relating to the problem at hand.

A few going onto more than a few of your "trying to be helpful posts" have a lot of wrong & misleading information. please only post if you're sure. doing what you've suggested will only achieve lost time for no good reason. From memory, you've posted a lot of wrong information in the past.

In the case of the OP, you're in a very bad situation here, as you've said, its very hard to diagnose an intermittent problem. My suggestion is to keep doing what you've been doing and thats to keep testing relevant systems...... loose wires, loose grounding, faulty relays, etc.

wish you good luck, I sure as hell would hate to be dealing with that sort of problem. not that I haven't dealt with it b4:(

[qikteg]

start with the basics and work backwards. in the case where there's an unknown factor causing the problem, a process of deduction is your only choice. the basics are fuel, spark, compression and timing.

spark and compression are confirmed. to be sure, check your distributor cap for damage or cracks.

Timing can be easily ruled out by confirming TDC against the crank and camgears. rule that out first.

If you can confirm that your timing is accurate, then your problem must be with fuel delivery. test injectors as per the FSM to ensure that the electrics are right, and that the injectors are pulsing. buy/borrow a fuel pressure gauge, ensure that fuel pressure is accurate and constant throughout ignition. then in the case that it doesn't start, check the fuel pressure again. this will rule out the fuel pump if pressure is constant regardless of whether the car starts or not.

i guess one place that you need to start would be asking the question: "why did it stop running in the first place?" did you do anything inparticular? (mods, accident, service, upgrade, time, exposure to elements etc). rarely is the case that the car is a driven daily, and you park it overnight, and the next morning, it just doesn't start.

[Bludger]

start with the basics and work backwards. in the case where there's an unknown factor causing the problem, a process of deduction is your only choice. the basics are fuel, spark, compression and timing.

spark and compression are confirmed. to be sure, check your distributor cap for damage or cracks.

Timing can be easily ruled out by confirming TDC against the crank and camgears. rule that out first.

If you can confirm that your timing is accurate, then your problem must be with fuel delivery. test injectors as per the FSM to ensure that the electrics are right, and that the injectors are pulsing. buy/borrow a fuel pressure gauge, ensure that fuel pressure is accurate and constant throughout ignition. then in the case that it doesn't start, check the fuel pressure again. this will rule out the fuel pump if pressure is constant regardless of whether the car starts or not.

i guess one place that you need to start would be asking the question: "why did it stop running in the first place?" did you do anything inparticular? (mods, accident, service, upgrade, time, exposure to elements etc). rarely is the case that the car is a driven daily, and you park it overnight, and the next morning, it just doesn't start.his problem is intermittent.

so one thing that checks out ok can become faulty the next day, very difficult.

[qikteg]

his problem is intermittent.

so one thing that checks out ok can become faulty the next day, very difficult.

hmm, misinterpretted the OP. thought he meant that it gradually started not working, to the point that its not working at all.

but still, there's only a few factors that would intermittently fail. like a fuel pump, or a relay or spark. maybe you should start replacing some components to see whether that illicits any change.

i still think that monitoring fuel pressure is still the best test you can do now, because it will determine a few different factors.

for example, you will have a positive fuel pressure reading when the engine is working. (by positive, i mean within specs)

If you have a positive fuel pressure reading when it doesn't work, then you can rule out your fuel pump/main relay as the issue. investigate spark.

If you have a negative fuel pressure reading when it doesn't work, then you know you need to investigate the fuel pump/main relay. this doesn't rule out spark as a potential issue, but you know that you need to investigate the fuel systems at a minimum anyway.

[02gzm]

Check your coil and ICM for a corroded terminal/faulty wire/faulty unit. I had the same problem last month. Started out as intermittent and then just wouldn't start all together. Replaced the igniter and car works fine now.

[Limbo]

ok here's another though, try another ECU. I had one ECU which did something stupid like this once. Worked sometimes and then it didnt.

See if you can borrow one from somewhere to test. So long as its the right OBD it will still start without any issues

[CIV-18C]

Subscribed.
Would definately like to know how this turns out.
Could be handy information to have one day.
Good luck.

[Kangaroo Bob]

I have what soulds like the same problem with a 93 CRX.

Intermittent starting problem:
Starts fine in the morning when engine cold.
If it has been run for a while, turned off then attempt to restart, it may cough once then simply turn over on the starter motor or it may just turn over and not cough at all.

Eventually, it may catch.

Also, very recently, when warm and on idle, the revs increase and subside regularly.

I've had it in a Honda, Cairns and they suggest it may be the distributor or main relay. Being intermittent very hard to diagnose.

I'll follow up on the sugestions from this forum.

If anyone else has any ideas, please post them!

[02gzm]

I have what soulds like the same problem with a 93 CRX.

Intermittent starting problem:
Starts fine in the morning when engine cold.
If it has been run for a while, turned off then attempt to restart, it may cough once then simply turn over on the starter motor or it may just turn over and not cough at all.

Eventually, it may catch.

Also, very recently, when warm and on idle, the revs increase and subside regularly.

I've had it in a Honda, Cairns and they suggest it may be the distributor or main relay. Being intermittent very hard to diagnose.

I'll follow up on the sugestions from this forum.

If anyone else has any ideas, please post them!

The fact that it's intermitent and only happens when it's warm is a good indication that the coil is on it's way out. They like to die in Honda's. And the erratic idle when warm also means your IACV is probably clogged.

[Kangaroo Bob]

The fact that it's intermitent and only happens when it's warm ...

Thanks for that. I'll start working my way though the suggestions and report on results. Great forum. Lots of support.
:thumbsup:

[98vtir]

Yeah give ECU a shot even. Kind of irrelevant but I EK B16A2 was dropping one cylinder a while back, would kick in randomly then drop back out every so often, but more often than not it was dropped. Took it to auto elec and traced back to ECU, sent it away, nothing was wrong with it. When everything was plugged back in its been fine ever since! And that could of just been a grubby terminal or some shit...

[MacDiZZle]

I recon its an earthing issue... check that your battery is earthed correctly and all your engine earths are not corroded and secured.

it could be your coil/ignitor too... when mine went it still gave spark but sometimes it was really weak like not strong enough to run the car. have you got one of those spark testers that tests how far the spark will jump? i had to wind mine right in to almost touching to get a spark. thats how i knew something was wrong.

another time too my car just died... i tried everything but it just would not start... i traced it back to the ecu. i towed it to and auto elec got the wiring cleaned up around the ecu and she fired right up. not sure what the problem was but never had a problem since

[Kangaroo Bob]

There seems to be no shortage of starting problems with these models.
Thanks for all of the suggestions to help resolve the problem I’m having.

I’m going to work through the suggestions systematically from simplest and cheapest on up. Most of the tests will have to be done when the car refuses to start, which always occur a long ways from home. I’ll put together a tool kit for the purpose.


Checked so far:

Fuel Pressure: good (pump was replaced a short while ago).

Distributor: Distributor cap – good, no cracks, points, some oxidation, cleaned up. Discovered a very small oil leak from inner seal.

Spark: Plugs good, strong spark.

Battery earth: good, clean.

Main Relay: Removed and resoldered all joins. There is a great instruction for this provided by ECU-MAN: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31796


I’m hoping it is the Main Relay. A few different sources suggest it might be. If the intermittent starting problem persists I’ll replace it.

If that doesn’t fix it I’ll replace the distributor with one from Distributor King on Ebay. $200 as opposed to $1600 OEM. Sounds too good to be true? Could be, but the feedback from customers is very high. I recon it’s worth a shot.

:thumbsup:

[MacDiZZle]

There seems to be no shortage of starting problems with these models.
Thanks for all of the suggestions to help resolve the problem I’m having.

I’m going to work through the suggestions systematically from simplest and cheapest on up. Most of the tests will have to be done when the car refuses to start, which always occur a long ways from home. I’ll put together a tool kit for the purpose.


Checked so far:

Fuel Pressure: good (pump was replaced a short while ago).

Distributor: Distributor cap – good, no cracks, points, some oxidation, cleaned up. Discovered a very small oil leak from inner seal.

Spark: Plugs good, strong spark.

Battery earth: good, clean.

Main Relay: Removed and resoldered all joins. There is a great instruction for this provided by ECU-MAN: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31796


I’m hoping it is the Main Relay. A few different sources suggest it might be. If the intermittent starting problem persists I’ll replace it.

If that doesn’t fix it I’ll replace the distributor with one from Distributor King on Ebay. $200 as opposed to $1600 OEM. Sounds too good to be true? Could be, but the feedback from customers is very high. I recon it’s worth a shot.

:thumbsup:

yep dude i got one of those dizzys but i got the hi performance one with a seperate coil... cost me like 500 i think. its looks good build quality and came with a lifetime warrenty so i was like why not!

my new coil died within the first week lol but i just sent the coil back and they replaced it no worries. no problems ever scince had it about a year and a half

[Kangaroo Bob]

So far so good. Since performing the maintenance, see above, I have not had a starting problem with my 93 CRX. It starts right up everytime.

Now its on to replacing the clutch master cylinder and leaky head gasket.

Cheers :thumbsup:

[dahondr98]

Having experienced intermittent go/no go problems with cars in the past, the first thing I’d do is replace all the ignition HT leads. They usually start failing intermittently. Seeing as how it won’t fire up, I’d suspect the coil to distributor lead – failing spark plug leads just cause intermittent misfiring, but you may as well replace them all at the one time.:thumbsup:

[Limbo]

good post, i did the same thing after abit. Ended up getting a new distributor, jsut the normal one and it fixed all the problems even though my dizzy seemed fine


There seems to be no shortage of starting problems with these models.
Thanks for all of the suggestions to help resolve the problem I’m having.

I’m going to work through the suggestions systematically from simplest and cheapest on up. Most of the tests will have to be done when the car refuses to start, which always occur a long ways from home. I’ll put together a tool kit for the purpose.


Checked so far:

Fuel Pressure: good (pump was replaced a short while ago).

Distributor: Distributor cap – good, no cracks, points, some oxidation, cleaned up. Discovered a very small oil leak from inner seal.

Spark: Plugs good, strong spark.

Battery earth: good, clean.

Main Relay: Removed and resoldered all joins. There is a great instruction for this provided by ECU-MAN: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31796


I’m hoping it is the Main Relay. A few different sources suggest it might be. If the intermittent starting problem persists I’ll replace it.

If that doesn’t fix it I’ll replace the distributor with one from Distributor King on Ebay. $200 as opposed to $1600 OEM. Sounds too good to be true? Could be, but the feedback from customers is very high. I recon it’s worth a shot.

:thumbsup:

[Kangaroo Bob]

Further Update: It is now September 2011 and I still have not had any starting problems. I believe re-soldering the main relay did the trick.

Cheers :thumbsup:[/QUOTE]