Project: Vi-Pec V88

[Chris_F]

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/6308/img9824i.jpg


Some of you may have heard me raving on about the Vi-pec ecu's (known as Link in New Zealand). If not, let me just say they are an incredibly advanced ECU. If you don't know much about ECU's let's just say that this ECU would be capable of running a brand new V8 M3, with sequential ignition/injection and full control over the four variably timed cams. For those that know a bit about ecu's, the V88 compares very favourably to a Motec M800 yet is significantly cheaper.

Anyway, I've been working hard on getting the vi-pec v88 wired into my car for the last month.

An engineer friend of mine has helped me wire the ECU into the car using an extension harness from boomslang. We were able to keep the stock harness intact so everything is "plug and play".

Getting it to the stage took well over 20 hours. We did all the research and wiring ourselves from reading through the Honda service manual to splicing and soldering wires. We basically started from scratch.

Latest update (19/07/2009): car has been re-tuned by BPS and drives very well. Dyno results on page 5: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112672&page=5

[Chris_F]

reserved

[enkay]

wow sounds great =D
after readin things here and there bout it, this might be the option i go in the future
cant wait to hear more

[fatboyz39]

WOW great to hear. We are currently running the baby Vi-pec V44 atm plug and play OBD1. Works well and relatively price very well against other ECU. We'll soon upgrade to V88 when we have more toys to play with :P

[Chris_F]

wow sounds great =D
after readin things here and there bout it, this might be the option i go in the future
cant wait to hear more

we might try and put together a "plug and play" harness for euro owners that are interested in running the v88.

you would still have ro run a few wires into the engine bay though. These include a ground for the vi-pec ecu to the engine block, wires for the drive by wire and wires for an aftermarket 02 sensor.


WOW great to hear. We are currently running the baby Vi-pec V44 atm plug and play OBD1. Works well and relatively price very well against other ECU. We'll soon upgrade to V88 when we have more toys to play with :P

Good stuff, so you've been pretty happy with the v44 plug and play? How does it compare to any previous ECU's you've used?

I forgot to mention that Vi-pec make plug and play ecu's for the Eg and EK civics.

[kitbkk]

subscribe!
all the best chris! cant wait for the result!

[raz05]

lookin good cant wait,
take it to QR once u finish install all ur goodies

[fatboyz39]

Good stuff, so you've been pretty happy with the v44 plug and play? How does it compare to any previous ECU's you've used?

I forgot to mention that Vi-pec make plug and play ecu's for the Eg and EK civics.

We have used Hondata S200 before going to Vi-pec. Car drives so much better with vi-pec. We have a OBD2 loom in the car so we had to run 2 conversion harness...still work great tho.

Best of luck with your project.... should be able to see good gains from it:thumbsup:

[aaronng]

we might try and put together a "plug and play" harness for euro owners that are interested in running the v88.

you would still have ro run a few wires into the engine bay though. These include a ground for the vi-pec ecu to the engine block, wires for the drive by wire and wires for an aftermarket 02 sensor.


Nice! That would be good to have the harness available as it would make the V88 much more accessible for Euro owners. What would the pricing be like, considering the amount effort that went into the research for this harness?

[Eclipsor]

Good to hear that you got it all ready to go Chris. Can't wait to see the results.

Quick question though, why do you need to run a wire all the way to the engine block? Can't you just tap into the ground back in the harness?

[Chris_F]

Nice! That would be good to have the harness available as it would make the V88 much more accessible for Euro owners. What would the pricing be like, considering the amount effort that went into the research for this harness?

It's definitely something I would like to do if there is anyone who is seriously interested.

We would try and make it as reasonably priced as possible. A rough figure would be $500-$600 (including the cost of a boomslang extension harness which retails for $200)

Alternatively we could put together a kit for roughly $300 for those people that know how to solder and don't mind getting their hands dirty. It would include:
Vi-Pec wiring schematic + instructions
Boomslang factory extension harness
neccessary heatshrink and loom tubing.

I should also point out that I have no intention of making the plug and play harness for a profit but simply to cover costs and to provide an incentive for my engineer friend to help out. I can't expect someone with a degree in aeronautical engineering to put in over 3 hours labour doing the wiring for nothing.

For reference, the cost for a workshop doing the wiring from start to finish (assuming they charge $100 an hour) would easily be close to $1500.

I'd also like to point out that a standalone ECU in the euro is not for the faint of heart. You will loose cruise control. You will loose the ignition cut function of the traction control too since the vi-pec takes complete control of these functions. The vehicle stability component of VSA is maintained.

It isn't cheap either. But, all costs included (assuming we make a plug and play harness) you could have a Vi-Pec v88 installed and tuned for between $3500-$4000. It's all relative though... a Motec setup is easily double that.


We have used Hondata S200 before going to Vi-pec. Car drives so much better with vi-pec. We have a OBD2 loom in the car so we had to run 2 conversion harness...still work great tho.

Best of luck with your project.... should be able to see good gains from it:thumbsup:

Good to hear. Thanks :thumbsup:


lookin good cant wait,
take it to QR once u finish install all ur goodies

Will do!


subscribe!
all the best chris! cant wait for the result!

Thanks Kit :)

[Chris_F]

Good to hear that you got it all ready to go Chris. Can't wait to see the results.

Quick question though, why do you need to run a wire all the way to the engine block? Can't you just tap into the ground back in the harness?

Good question man...

The v88 has four seperate grounding wires, so that would be a bit messy. We also wanted to avoid splicing as much as possible. The installation manual also says you should ground directly to the engine block.

Theoretically, you could ground the wires to the chassis too. But we decided that overkill isn't such a bad thing. (wasn't too much of a drama either since we were already running the 6 wires for the drive by wire connector)

[tron07]

nice job with the harness and stuffss....

other place you can ground is where the car headunit grounds to.

[Type R Positive]

Nice project there Chris! I'm very interested to see how you go mate! Keep it up!

[integral90]

hehe, Chris now you're not the only one not getting any sleep :p

[Chris_F]

false alarm... car is not finished yet...

[kitbkk]

I bet you are excited like hell!:p

[Chris_F]

^^^as above... my excitement was a false alarm... car is not properly tuned yet

[kitbkk]

haha cant wait man!
you are planing to upgrade the cams yeah?
will be so nice to play with VTC and new cams hehe.
oh and I think I saw your for sale thread.. you got rid of the OEM front lip chris?
please update with pics too hehe. all the best man!

[johnprocter]

tell us how it goes !

[defibros]

want to see some curves on the dyno chart :))

[Chris_F]

well after picking up the car it turns out there was a few issues... the ECU needs a change in the software.

[Eclipsor]

Hmm. See what happens.

[Chris_F]

It'll all come good in the end :)

[aaronng]

It'll all come good in the end :) the car is running fine it just needs to be fine tuned by a honda specialist to get the most out of it. The k-series is more hi-tech than an Ls1 lol

Any chance of a rough figure on percentage gains after adding the V88? :)

[Chris_F]

Any chance of a rough figure on percentage gains after adding the V88? :)

I don't want to do that at this stage. The car is only running 5-10 degrees advance on the VTC... PM me if you'd like to know any more...

It will be fine tuned within a couple of weeks and at that stage I'll post up all of the information I can... :)

What I'm most excited about is that the car is now functioning/running relatively well with a standalone computer.... the skies the limit when it comes to modifications now hehe

[Chris_F]

Some of you guys might find these graphs interesting.

With the vi-pec v88, you can have full control over drive by wire throttle mapping.

Old TP is what we came up with when tuning throttle response on the street.

Smoothed TP is a smoothed version of the Old TP

Round Square, is calculated via an equation to give a differnet looking curve.

With drive by wire throttle the first 40% of pedal travel needs to be very gradual or the car will bunny hop in first gear very easily... you can see how we've done this by looking at the graphs.

We will be testing the smoothed TP map and the round square Map later tonight to see how the car drives :)

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/6124/throttlepositionmapping.gif (http://img41.imageshack.us/my.php?image=throttlepositionmapping.gif)

[integral90]

Man why not bump 100% pedal position to 100% open throttle body??

[aaronng]

At 100% opening, you risk jamming the throttle body open.

[Chris_F]

At 100% opening, you risk jamming the throttle body open.

You took the words out of my mouth...

there's no difference in performance between 97% and 100%. It's just to protect the throttle :thumbsup:

[Euro08Jaz]

Sorry i really dont know much about Ecu setups but to set it out for a noob like me how would this setup compare to a dual ecu setup using kpro? so their is no way to retain cruise control? Could this setup be used to tune a sc or turbo kit?

[Chris_F]

Sorry i really dont know much about Ecu setups but to set it out for a noob like me how would this setup compare to a dual ecu setup using kpro? so their is no way to retain cruise control? Could this setup be used to tune a sc or turbo kit?

In my opinion this is a more flexible ecu than kpro. It can run a V8 engine with four variably timed cams and still have left over inputs/outputs. The vi-pec v88 is a universal "will run anything" sort of ECU.

The Kpro dual will run the accord euro just as well, but it will only work on a couple of Hondas and that's it.

Yes you can run any engine setup you can think of with the vi-pec v88. It's a fully tuneable standalone computer.

[Euro08Jaz]

awesome, and it works out cheaper than kpro?

[Chris_F]

we experimented with the drive by wire settings and the smoothed TP proved to be the best. The round square TP felt too dead at low pedal positions.


awesome, and it works out cheaper than kpro?

Potentially cheaper, if you know what you're doing in regards to the wiring/installation/setup.

It was pretty expensive for me though. Being the first to install a Vi-pec v88 into an Accord euro in australia (possibly the world) increased my costs.

If anyone is interested in running a Vi-pec ECU I'll be able to provide you with all of the neccessary wiring information/installation instructions/parts/wiring harness etc. you need to get the ECU running in the car. It should work out much cheaper for everyone else that way :thumbsup:

[BusterSonic12]

can this ecu remove the rev limit on the euro?

[integral90]

can this ecu remove the rev limit on the euro?

Of course. Stand alone = complete control over engine.

[CRXer]

crikey,id hate to think of what the cash outlay has been so far

[Chris_F]

crikey,id hate to think of what the cash outlay has been so far

I hate thinking about it too... trust me :(

[CRXer]

if i was u dude,id be selling base maps or at least asking for charitable donations to recoup some costs.

guinea pigs shouldnt have to work for free.......animal rights!!!!

[Chris_F]

if i was u dude,id be selling base maps or at least asking for charitable donations to recoup some costs.

guinea pigs shouldnt have to work for free.......animal rights!!!!

hahaha, yea, being the guinea pig has a lot of draw backs

[EuroAccord13]

hahaha, yea, being the guinea pig has a lot of draw backs

Welcome to my World :D

[Eclipsor]

Back from the tuners yet Chris?

[Chris_F]

I'm running the stock ECU for the moment...

I'm now waiting on a software update from Vi-pec that will improve the way the car starts (relating to the way the vi-pec reads the crank trigger pattern)... this is also part of the reason why the car hasn't been running 100% yet. It's a very simple software configuration change and shouldn't take too long. Vi-pec have very good/quick customer service.

This will be the last hurdle... then I'll be able to get the car fine tuned :)

[felixd]

:) good to hear Chris hmm just wondering you reckon you ll get more performance then the kpro ?

[Chris_F]

An ECU really doesn't make any difference to power output... it's all about the way it's been tuned.

The benefit of the vi-pec is that it's very easy to tune, has a number of advanced features (drive by wire control) and can be used on practically any car. It's a very flexible and powerful computer.

[Chris_F]

I just got the car back from Bayside Performance services.

I'm speachless... the car is absoloutely amazing to drive!

Stay posted for dyno graphs and results!

[aaronng]

Before & after dynos please!!!!!!!!! I'm excited!

[felixd]

me2 if u can post a video would b great :)

[FLICK]

From what i heard the Vipec offers Real-time tuning. I would love one!!!!

[Chris_F]

All dyno runs were done on a dyno dynamics in shootout mode.

The green line = stock ECU (with all bolt ons)

The red line = the initial tune done by a workshop with no experience tuning hondas

THE BLUE LINE = Bayside performance services tune. This workshop does AMAZING work. I can't express how happy I am now.

To put the power figures into perspective... the car was making 124kw with the stock ECU at the first workshop (green line). After their tune it made 130kw. On the bayside performance dyno that 130kw was only 122kw. So it's a 10kw peak gain ABOVE the previous tune. Or approximately 16kw peak gain over stock. If my maths is correct? But that's only half the story. There was about a 40kw gain in the mid range! Just look at how fat that torque curve is!


so who wants to see the dyno graphs?

http://img371.imageshack.us/i/eur10.gif/http://img371.imageshack.us/i/eur10.gifhttp://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3500/hondawithstockcopys.gif

Engine modifications are:

GruppeM intake
2006 TSX intake arm
2006 TSX throttle body (64mm)
Maxim works header
Euro R cat (300 Cel metal core)
2.5" custom exhaust (one straight through resonator, one straight through muffler)

[Chris_F]

From what i heard the Vipec offers Real-time tuning. I would love one!!!!

Yea, I think it makes it easier to play with the cam angles etc.


Bayside performance services was really able to perfect the cam angles and VTEC point.

Try and guess my VTEC point!

[aaronng]

Nice!!!!!!! Very excellent results there! Very surprised on how much lower a workshop with no experience on Hondas is able to tune. Vtec point is at 4600rpm I'm guessing?

[Chris_F]

Nice!!!!!!! Very excellent results there! Very surprised on how much lower a workshop with no experience on Hondas is able to tune. Vtec point is at 4600rpm I'm guessing?

No... VTEC point is even lower than that! I'll give you a clue... when I shift at 6500 from 1st to 2nd I am still in VTEC.

It's very interesting that when you tune the cam angles properly you are able to lower the VTEC point quite a lot more than usual!

I am extremely happy with how the car drives now. Very linear power with great mid range torque. Compared to a completely stock accord euro I've gained about 30kw peak power and nearly double that in the mid range with my bolt on modifications and tuning. Unbelievable what a good tune can do.

It was funny. I was changing gears at 5000rpm thinking that I must be close to the red line. I then realised I had 2500rpm left to play with :thumbsup:

James O'connor at Bayside performance services really knows what he's doing. He has had many years of experience with variable valve timing and lift which is why he was able to do such a great job. He's remapped Lamborghini Gallardo's and Ferrari f430's so he is familiar with hi-tech cars.

[johnprocter]

dude awesome work all that time effort and money has finally paid off for you mate ! congrats ! still enjoying the exhaust btw hahaha :)

[Chris_F]

dude awesome work all that time effort and money has finally paid off for you mate ! congrats ! still enjoying the exhaust btw hahaha :)

thanks! It is a huge relief to get to this stage. I can now start enjoying the car again after nearly 3 months of blood sweat and tears.

Glad to hear you're enjoying the exhaust mate. After waiting 4 months for that exhaust to be made I cant believe I had to sell it so cheap :( lol

[baboo]

QR Time

[fatboyz39]

WOW nice gains there. Great hearing you got the tuning sorted. cant believe you picked up so much power midrange. Im guessing vtec around 4000rpm? We had ours about there i think haha...

For all the haters, VIPEC FTW!

[Chris_F]

QR Time

I'll be there :thumbsup::thumbsup:


WOW nice gains there. Great hearing you got the tuning sorted. cant believe you picked up so much power midrange. Im guessing vtec around 4000rpm? We had ours about there i think haha...

For all the haters, VIPEC FTW!

Since you're so close to guessing correctly.. yep. The VTEC point is at 4150rpm :). It's amazing how linear the power is now.

Yea very happy with the midrange. The tuner spent a lot of time on the cam angles getting them perfected. He also tested the VTEC point in 50 rpm incriments to completely remove any VTEC 'dip'.

Vi-pec is good but it's just a tool at the end of the day... I think it's better to say "Bayside Perfromance services FTW!". I will never go anywhere else for tuning now :thumbsup:

[SHOGUNOVDDRK]

Just read thoroughly through the thread and this is exciting stuff.

Must say I'm supprised at the results you got alone (in the total comparison)

[CRXer]

damn,was gonna say 4200,lol....

like they say,no pain...no gain
u certainly felt the pain,but u got the gain,nice chunk of meat there

must make for a nice daily,would be interesting to shift that all to the right a little with some cams if that tickles your fancy

[JasonGilholme]

WOW! That red line is shit in comparison to the blue.

Great to see a shop in QLD that can actually tune properly.

What other ECU's do they tune? I'm sure theres some people who would love to know where they can take their hondatas/neptunes/whatevers to get tuned.

Good work man. Glad its all come together for you.

[Chris_F]

damn,was gonna say 4200,lol....

like they say,no pain...no gain
u certainly felt the pain,but u got the gain,nice chunk of meat there

must make for a nice daily,would be interesting to shift that all to the right a little with some cams if that tickles your fancy

haha, I should have let the guessing game go on longer.

yea I guess it has all been worth it. I've learnt a lot along the way.

yea cams will be my next move for sure. It's part of the reason I got the ecu. But I'm really enjoying the way the car drives now so I'm not in a rush. I'll give it a few months I think.




WOW! That red line is shit in comparison to the blue.

Great to see a shop in QLD that can actually tune properly.

What other ECU's do they tune? I'm sure theres some people who would love to know where they can take their hondatas/neptunes/whatevers to get tuned.

Good work man. Glad its all come together for you.

Yea it is a night and day difference.

I'm just glad I was able to find a good tuner. My advice.. if you ever find one in your area, hold them tight and never let them go! lol

I would say BPS would be able to tune just about anything. If the software is freely available I'm sure they'll be able to help you out. I can't reccomend them enough :thumbsup:

[yfin]

congratulations Chris - the ECU has been a long time in the making. And I bet you don't regret not going for Jtune..!

[Chris_F]

congratulations Chris - the ECU has been a long time in the making. And I bet you don't regret not going for Jtune..!

thanks yfin! It finally feels like all of the effort has been worth it. Based on some rough calculations the car should have over 175kw and 280nm of torque if measured at the flywheel.

[Euro08Jaz]

Not bad at all mate very use able power, car must be a dream.

[integral90]

O M G.

We now have the biggest love/hate relationship ever, you fukker! Does the car spin all through 2nd now if you shift hard? Your power curve almost looks like a mirror to mine now, LOL

Video. Now. :D

[felixd]

WOW !!!! chris thats an amazing result this will give me more inspiration hauhauhau i need ECU now :(

[Chris_F]

Not bad at all mate very use able power, car must be a dream.

Yea. Previously I had to shift at redline to make the car feel fast. I can now get that same sensation of power shifting at 5000rpm. It's now a very torquey engine. It feels like driving a 6 cylinder car in some ways.


O M G.

We now have the biggest love/hate relationship ever, you fukker! Does the car spin all through 2nd now if you shift hard? Your power curve almost looks like a mirror to mine now, LOL

Video. Now. :D

lol

I don't think I've ever spun the wheels in second. If I take off in 1st from a rolling start and go full throttle straight away it will spin from 4000rpm to redlinel.

I've also very impressed with the way James at BPS was able keep the power curve so flat to 7500rpm. I really thought that the power curve with the RBB would dip more aggressively than that after 7000rpm.


WOW !!!! chris thats an amazing result this will give me more inspiration hauhauhau i need ECU now :(

It goes to show how important the tuner is. The ECU isn't the brain of the car, it's the mapping of the ECU that is the brain of the car ;)

[sodaz]

Wow well done Chris. You're a true Euro pioneer. :thumbsup:

It must be a really fun car to drive now. Post some videos on youtube or something when you get a chance.

[egSi]

chris u r god. can i plz have ur babies

ur rig is easily one of AUs top Euros. Mint :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

ring me u douche ;)

[integral90]

I don't think I've ever spun the wheels in second. If I take off in 1st from a rolling start and go full throttle straight away it will spin from 4000rpm to redlinel.

I've also very impressed with the way James at BPS was able keep the power curve so flat to 7500rpm. I really thought that the power curve with the RBB would dip more aggressively than that after 7000rpm

Man I need to install my suspension... On cold tyres in 1st I'll spin to redline straight away from any RPM, on warm ones I'll spin from around 5500rpm. If you can put that sort of power down and still only spin at 4000rpm your car is a monster. So much grip some how :D

Please 1/4 mile it soon, I want to see a 14.8 :)

[foxdie]

VIDEO KILLED THE RADIO STAR
no seriously make a video
now.

[integral90]

Fly me up and I'll film and edit a feature film of your Euro :)

[kitbkk]

Congrats Chris! Great result!
Wait till you are bored with the power of the car and chuck in some cams:p
I'm excited! I bet there will be more stuff coming from you mate.;)
The gains in the mid range:thumbsup:

[Chris_F]

Man I need to install my suspension... On cold tyres in 1st I'll spin to redline straight away from any RPM, on warm ones I'll spin from around 5500rpm. If you can put that sort of power down and still only spin at 4000rpm your car is a monster. So much grip some how :D

Please 1/4 mile it soon, I want to see a 14.8 :)

Yea, I used to chirp/wheel spin much easier when the car had stock suspension. With the softer stock suspension the front of the car will lift off the ground very easily under acceleration which contributes to the wheel spin. With the coilovers and an engine torque damper, you definately gain traction in a straight line.


VIDEO KILLED THE RADIO STAR
no seriously make a video
now.

will see what I can do.


chris u r god. can i plz have ur babies

ur rig is easily one of AUs top Euros. Mint :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

ring me u douche ;)

lol, will give you a call sometime soon man


Wow well done Chris. You're a true Euro pioneer. :thumbsup:

It must be a really fun car to drive now. Post some videos on youtube or something when you get a chance.

It seems everyone wants a video now so I'll see if i can put one together.


Fly me up and I'll film and edit a feature film of your Euro :)

feature film? lol


Congrats Chris! Great result!
Wait till you are bored with the power of the car and chuck in some cams:p
I'm excited! I bet there will be more stuff coming from you mate.;)
The gains in the mid range:thumbsup:

Thanks kit. I think it will take me a while to get used to this power. It's more than enough for now. The next step is to fine tune the cold start and idle.

[Chris_F]

Is anyone in brisbane with a stock or lightly modified euro interested in going to a dyno with me?

I'd like to do a comparison between my car and a stock car.

I'll chip in a bit of money toward the cost of dynoing your car if neccessary.

Let me know ! :)

[integral90]

Is anyone in brisbane with a stock or lightly modified euro interested in going to a dyno with me?

I'd like to do a comparison between my car and a stock car.

I'll chip in a bit of money toward the cost of dynoing your car if neccessary.

Let me know ! :)

Come to the meet this weekend and I'll dyno with you :D

[Chris_F]

Come to the meet this weekend and I'll dyno with you :D

Would love to, but I'm heading in the opposite direction. Heading to the sunshine coast for the weekend.

[integral90]

Would love to, but I'm heading in the opposite direction. Heading to the sunshine coast for the weekend.

Damn you! Your woman got her way didn't she!? :p

Get your car re-dyno'd now that you've fixed the throttle position :)

[Chris_F]

The adjustments I made to the throttle settings won't effect power output. It just puts less strain on the drive by wire motor really. At 88% TPS the butterfly is actually fully open. At 97% it is also fully open but slightly 'over extended'. The few degrees of rotation are insignificant to performance.

I also monitored my intake temperatures last night and I was very impressed with the GruppeM's ability to suck in cold air.

Outside temperature ranged from 15-17*C and intake air temp stayed fairly flat at 20-25*C. At speeds over 80km/h or higher it wouldn't budge from 20*c. It only went over 25*c after I pulled over and idled for 20 minutes while playing with some settings.

[Crapdaz]

nice chris, glad your car is working out for you.... can't wait to see some vids...