To buy or not to buy... one man's tale

[Rudiger Gussett]

Before I begin my cathartic tale of a journey of deliberation over whether or not to buy a new Accord Euro, let me start by thanking all of the contributors to this forum who have formed such a valuable part of my decision-making process. I've surveyed most threads over the past few weeks, finding particular value in the pricing, pinging and service standard threads. So a big thank you to all of you who have provided so much knowledge and information in these pages.

I stumbled onto this forum about a month ago, while trying to get some feedback on the performance of the new Accord Euro. I had all but decided to buy, but a series of events have since conspired to change my mind.

Firstly - the pinging issue. Whilst not a major flaw by all accounts, Honda's initial reluctance to concede the issue existed and the slow response in releasing details of the fix, are not exactly confidence-inspiring. Higher service costs were an expected part of purchasing a Honda, lacklustre responsiveness and service standards were not.

Secondly - the May price increase. The Accord Euro is undoubtedly a great value car. I was happy to pay a $1,000 premium for an auto Accord Euro over the Mazda6 Classic, with their almost identical feature set. I reasoned that the inconvenience of the pinging issue in the short term was a price I was willing to pay for the better internal fitout, better fuel economy, wheel-mounted paddle-shifters and chilled compartment. However, a second price-rise in six months turned it into a $2,000+ premium, which combined with a disturbing sense that Honda really weren't that interested in securing the sale despite the supposed massive downturn in sales.

The indifference of my local dealer. A very persistant, but helpful salesman was relentless in his calls and prompting for a sale, all but convincing me of the value in purchasing from him - to the point that I agreed to give him last option on pricing after getting a price from my novated lease company. The principal at my local dealership undid all of that in 10 minutes flat. I could put down his denial of the existance of the pinging issue to just being poorly informed, although when he went on to say that all reported problems were the result of people using normal unleaded, he started to lose me.

When he looked at the admittedly good price the lease company had got and told me that "we're moving a lot of them and I've only got one or two Euro's to last me till August or September and I don't want to sell one at that price", I understood entirely and thanked them for their time. The calls which started a couple of days later inviting me to come in for a chat again disturbed me, almost as much on his insistence that the previous week's price rise (May 1?) gave him no room to move. The fact that giving him last refusal co-incided with a price increase, and a subsequent refusal from my leasing company to honour the initial quote they'd provided the week before the unanticipated price rise, meant I was rapidly souring on the idea of buying a new CU2, despite believing it is probably still best in class.

Maybe I'm being overly-precious. Heaven know's my $35,000 won't make or break Honda. I know they've got margins to protect. Whilst I can't fathom how losing my business over the necessity of passing on a second price rise in six months actually helps them achieve any of their goals in the present ecomonic climate, I'm comfortable with their right to do so.

I just worry that a few of these signs are not reading particularly well for Honda Australia, and the overwhelming feeling I have when surveying the manner in which HA have treated so many owners in here, as well as my own dealings with the (admittedly) single Honda dealership is indifference. I read in my glossy brochure for the Accord Euro, the words of the Honda founder, "Without racing, there is no Honda". In lieu of their withdrawal from F1, I worry he may have been right.

Anyhow, I've got a fresh quote in my hands now for a new Mazda6 Classic which I'm signing off on Monday morning. There's a degree of cutting off my nose to spite my face about it all, but there's an even larger driving force in the fact that I refuse to line the pockets of anyone who makes such a weak play at attaining my business.

Again, thank you to all who have provided so much knowledge in this forum. Accord Euro owners undoubtedly have a great car, and a large part of me will look on with a hint of jealousy when I pass you on the road. I sincerely hope I am proved wrong and that Honda Australia manage to quickly remedy the pinging issue and re-establish their reputation for premium vehicles and service.

[euromandeluxe]

that's lame. epicly lame. its pretty crappy salesmanship if they're actually trying to move cars out with the higher price tag.

hopefully you enjoy the 6!

[kimnkk]

Its not a coincidence that you got such poor service, quite a few Honda dealers that i went to when we were looking at the new Euro had pretty terrible service. Like you, it almost put me off the new Euro for good but luckily we found a half decent dealer, customer service wise.

Hope you enjoy your Mazda 6 mate, it looks like a fantastic car!

[Joystick]

Enjoy the purchase, I'm sure you'll be happy with your decision.

[Mike Star]

While the Mazda 6 is undoubtedly a good car there is an almost universal view (except from Mazda dealers!) that the Honda CU2 is a better car just as the CL9 had been better than the original and upgrade Mazda 6's.

With that in mind I would have tried a couple of other dealers and essentially played them off against each other as I did recently for the purchase of a Civic for my sister in law. I did the deal for her on the 28th of the month and sales were down so one dealer in particular went the whole way for us to do the deal.

Golden rule is do the deal in the final few days of the month and even better in this instance if you could have waited until late June end of financial year.

By the way this would apply also to a Mazda 6 purchase.

[primetimex]

I would agree with Mike Star. The CU2 is undoubtedly the better vehicle that Mazda6. I've seen the Mazda6 on the road but it just doesn't have the commanding on-road presence and appearance that I would like.

For me the pinging issue is not that big of a problem (fingers crossed) and Honda Australia tends to keep the dealers in the dark so honest / not so honest salesman will parrot the usual line "you've probably used non-premium fuel hence pinging".

[SPQR]

"cathartic": An apt word. It sounds like you really got the sh*ts with Honda. Nice post, Confucius.

[Euro08Jaz]

At the end of the day put the product before the service, let the car make you feel good not the dealer.

[rodericb]

Nice post and I too found that various dealers were either ill-informed, stupid or just out-and-out liars when I was looking, a few months ago. And that was just the Honda, Mazda and Toyota dealers.

The new Mazda 6 is a nice car and it hasn't porked out as much as the Euro has from CL to CU.

[chunky]

nice choice

i woudl have gone with CU2
looks so meann!!

[hisoka]

nice choice of car mate, mazda 6 is better imo. i have a accord euro so no iam not just saying that

[johnprocter]

Just curious what dealership did you deal with for Honda? Did you try a few dealerships? Or just the one? Congrats on the mazda 6 purchase though.

[Joystick]

Having just been in my brother's Mazda 6, I must say I'm glad I went the Euro over the 6 because the inside of the cabin the Euro is miles ahead of the 6 in terms of fit and finish.

Once the ping is resolved :D

[tron07]

If you are not in a hurry to get a car, wait for the facelift euro.... :thumbsup:

[aaronng]

In the end, you have to feel happy not only with the car, but the sales and service experience. I don't blame you for going for a Mazda6. When I bought my Euro in 2004, one dealer turned me off completely! It was just good coincidence that another dealer treated me well and I bought the Euro in the end. If I did not get that good experience, I would have gone for either Mazda or Subaru too.

A good car still won't make you feel good in the end if the sales experience leaves a bitter taste......

[SteveH]

I have to agree that the level of service I received from a couple of Honda dealers was pathetic. The first dealership, I had a salesman who could barely speak English, then the sales manager giving me a trade in figure that was ridiculous. He then tried to justify the trade in price by saying dealer x had the model above mine at the same price. ( I know people at the dealership he quoted and when I called his BS, he got all high and mighty on me)

I went into dealership 2 with my 8 and half month pregnant wife on a weekday and stood there for 10 minutes, sat in the car and still had no one help me.

Dealership 3 was great as my wife went to school with the sales girl, but when it came to getting delivery of the car, it was 4 weeks later than their 'worst case' delivery date and the communication was apalling.

So, all in all after my long rant, I can't blame you for buying the 6 as I nearly did the same thing. Hope you enjoy it

[denot]

For me, I used to go to dealaers and just browse and have a feel of the car (either from looking and or test drive). And then, go back home straight away without even asking the price (or just quick chat and then go). Then I will decide which one I like the most at home and after deciding, I start going to the dealer and bargain for the price.

I have check and or test drive both CU2 and 6 Classic, along with Accord 40 edition thai, camry (I know...) and Aurion. To see which one better, and I will still put CU2 above the rest. my 2nd preference is the 6 classic, but I like the CU2 better than the 6.

Sales experience been good for me coz I have been buying Honda from the same dealer and I have brought friends to the dealership so they know me and treat me well...

But yeah, I've been to a Honda dealer where they let me stand there for almost 1 hr and then come with 09 pricelist for 08 build CU2!! They even sell an ex demo 08 build CU2 for the price of new 09 CU2!!! "We are the biggest Honda dealer in Sydney." Of course they are, but the worst as well...

[MiSloVic]

I had similar experience 3 years ago when i bought my cl9. 1st dealer near my place, along a highway is barely interested in sealing the deal. and offered only $3k for my Commodore Berlina (market value was $16k at that time). went to a 2nd dealer about 25km away, and got a better deal and better aftersales service.

strangely, the 1st dealer's Mazda outlet offered better service and are eager to do a good deal on the Mazda 6. I went with CL9, as it drives better, has a better interior, and resale value. looking at the value of 3 yr old CL9 sports and the Mazda 6 Sports now, the euro is worth about 2k higher. i was quoted similar prices for the CL9 and Mazda 6 Sports back then.

at the end of the day, dealerships are similar to a private business... they resell Honda cars, so, service level would vary from dealership to dealership. I've no regrets driving the 25km to purchase the car, and driving the 50km to have it serviced at the same dealership every 6 months. shop around.

[primetimex]

Before signing off on the deal for my Black CU2 Luxury Navi, I have visited the dealer no less than six times including two test drives and the last test drives was just myself and partner (no salesman!) on a Volcano Grey Luxury Navi.

Main aim was to ensure that I'm completely happy with the CU2 on all aspects and also that the car does not have any noises whatsoever (cabin creaks, pinging etc).

It is interesting to note that the demo car I had which had 2000kms+ on the clock had a very very slight pinging noise but nothing that distracts me from driving even with the stereo turned off.

At the end of the day as AaronNg mentioned, a great sales experience makes a good car purchase excellent - while a bad sales experience can turn you off the car altogether!

I knew the salesman at my dealership quite well in the past 19 or so years, and provided me with excellent service!

[sdablhad]

Did you consider second hand?

Or was this off the cards completely. I bought privatly my CL9 second hand 18 months from new, still had 18months new car warranty (so no problems with no dealer warranty) still had new car smell, gotta admit, it had 1 or 2 scratches, but also came at nearly 10k less than the quoted price for a new CL9 (including onraods).

Can be a bit of a gamble with private sales, but 18months with new car warranty, honda service let me know its service history with a phone call, and it had low k's. I havent got a single regret from the purchase.

[Type R Positive]

Sales experience is definately a factor. I ended up going with a dealer out of Perth for my CU2, as the Perth dealers were crap. I would have gone with Burswood, but they were playing too many games for my liking.

I first went to the place I brought my CL9 from, their quote for the car was the highest by far, and their trade in price for my '07 Corolla was the lowest by far. I told them that I was a returning customer and asked them is that the best they can come up with. They just said that "CU2 is going to be popular". I told them to jam it, and continued on with getting quotes elsewhere. The funny thing is these losers kept ringing me back even after I gave them the price I wanted (what I got my CU2 and trade for elsewhere) and they still wouldn't do it.

I suggest you pick the car you want then pick the dealer. Loyalty seems to mean nothing now days.

Don't be afraid to go out of town to make a deal. ;)

[Mike Star]

I live in the Blue Mts but bought my MY06 Euro Lux from a dealer on the Northern Beaches. I got a good deal, free extended warranty and a free courtesy car for life as I travel down ther twice a year for service due to the extended warranty.

My partner and I make a day of it. We drive down pick up the courtesy car and head off to a baech Cafe for coffee and a read of the daily papers. Then we drive along the coast to Palm Beach ro similar go for a walk and have lunch in a nice restaurant somewhere.

I'm quite happy to travel down twice a year because their service has been great and their sales staff were also very good at the time of purchase.

[tron07]

I think if you have a car, take some time and sell it off yourself, probably fetch a lot more then the trade in prices.

Cause when you trade it, the dears need to factor the money involve if they cannot move your car, place to store it, fees to transfer the name, get people to clean it then sell it, etc....

[tony1234]

I think if you have a car, take some time and sell it off yourself, probably fetch a lot more then the trade in prices.

Cause when you trade it, the dears need to factor the money involve if they cannot move your car, place to store it, fees to transfer the name, get people to clean it then sell it, etc....
Agreed.Sell it privately.If the car is in good condition and if you have a bit of patience you'll get more $$$ than a dealer will give you.

[denot]

Agreed.Sell it privately.If the car is in good condition and if you have a bit of patience you'll get more $$$ than a dealer will give you.

Ya, but unfortunately my condition didnt allow me to sell my civic privately last time... well I trade in for 24k and they sell for 26k atm. I think I got a pretty decent deal with only 2k price diff dont you think?

[tony1234]

Ya, but unfortunately my condition didnt allow me to sell my civic privately last time... well I trade in for 24k and they sell for 26k atm. I think I got a pretty decent deal with only 2k price diff dont you think?
It's individual choice.If circumstances didn't allow you do sell privately then you have no choice.Personally i'd always sell my cars privately then when you go to a dealer and you want to buy a car and you have no trade then you are in a much better position to negotiate a good deal than with a trade.

[primetimex]

Sales experience is definately a factor. I ended up going with a dealer out of Perth for my CU2, as the Perth dealers were crap.

So where did u end up getting your CU2 Type R Positive?

[Type R Positive]

So where did u end up getting your CU2 Type R Positive?Bunbury Honda. I got treated like shit at Honda North, where I got my CL9 from....

[unity]

In the end, you have to feel happy not only with the car, but the sales and service experience. I don't blame you for going for a Mazda6. When I bought my Euro in 2004, one dealer turned me off completely! It was just good coincidence that another dealer treated me well and I bought the Euro in the end. If I did not get that good experience, I would have gone for either Mazda or Subaru too.

A good car still won't make you feel good in the end if the sales experience leaves a bitter taste......

Service yes. Sales no. I would describe my new car purchase as ok. Not good, not bad. But at the end of the day the only thing that really matters to me is the price. Like any bad experience in life you put it behind you and move on. If you are going to reflect on a poor sales experience, despite liking the car, then you need anger management.

Service is a little different because that's ongoing and you will always have to think ahead till the next service. However, if one dealer upsets you there are many others to choose from.

[Joystick]

Service yes. Sales no. I would describe my new car purchase as ok. Not good, not bad. But at the end of the day the only thing that really matters to me is the price. Like any bad experience in life you put it behind you and move on. If you are going to reflect on a poor sales experience, despite liking the car, then you need anger management.

Service is a little different because that's ongoing and you will always have to think ahead till the next service. However, if one dealer upsets you there are many others to choose from.

Sounds like my experience. Shit service but got a great price and love the car. I always thought buying a new car would be an enjoyable experience but it was a pain in the ass and stressful in the end. I now put a greater value on customer service and will never buy from this Honda dealership again, learnt a lot though.

Even today, when I went in to the dealership they didn't even want to talk to me, despite the fact I want to buy some accessories for the car. :(

[unity]

Sounds like my experience. Shit service but got a great price and love the car. I always thought buying a new car would be an enjoyable experience but it was a pain in the ass and stressful in the end. I now put a greater value on customer service and will never buy from this Honda dealership again, learnt a lot though.

Even today, when I went in to the dealership they didn't even want to talk to me, despite the fact I want to buy some accessories for the car. :(

I will still buy according to where I get the best price. I think sometimes we have to forgive poor customer service. If someone is having an off day then they may come accross as being rude, uninterested and uncaring. However, if this happens time after time then it's time to walk away.

You only start enjoying your car the moment you drive it out through the dealer's front gates.

[denot]

True, if I have to wait 1 hr before being approached in a dealer and then they offer me the same price as the other dealer with greate service PLUS a lot of extras. Then I might seal the deal with the rude dealer and then service the car somewhere else... :p

[primetimex]

Bunbury Honda. I got treated like shit at Honda North, where I got my CL9 from....

LOL - don't bother with Honda North, I've gone there once to have a look at CU2, came across a very pressure selling salesman - walked straight out. He got me trapped in the car though! Had to put through some excuses to get out of the dealership ASAP!

Ended up with Prestige - I normally like to be left alone (and most of the salesman knows me well enough since I come there often) to browse the cars then when I'm ready I approach my usual salesman to make enquiries!

[sdablhad]

I agree with TypeR postitive,

Bunbury honda are good for service and sales. I went there many times before buying my (eventually a private sale) CL9. even though they didnt get the sale, they were more than happy to service after i told them they lost out. and the service is good, just watch out they dont try to add in a few extra hours of labour here and there.
once they tried to charge me 1 hour labour for diagnostics of warper front rotors when i already told them thats what the problem is, and they had already used another hour of time to skim them and replace the pads.
Service sure aint cheap for hondas...