Project MUGEN Civic Type R

[Civic Type R]

ok , before all of you jump up and say its not a real Type R you are correct :)

But this is my project and bight your tongue until i get this thing on the road.

http://www.dohc-vtec.com.au/gallery/hot4s-snap3.jpg yes i know the blonde is more attractive !

OK. To start with, I have a Civic EK4 VTiR. This has been completely stripped and had everything on the inside replaced with oem JDM EK9 Type R parts. I thought, its still too weak for me so i went and got a new puppy powerplant to play with.

Pic below is of the car up on the hoist awaiting modification of the 4-1 header and a few hoses to be re-connected.
http://www.ozhonda.com/gallery/data/509/280car-on-hoist-med.jpg

B18 Spec R in there !
http://www.ozhonda.com/gallery/data/509/280engine-in-med.jpg

This engine was originally purchased from a Brittish Touring Car by a previous owner and transplanted into an ITR for the Sepang leg of the JGTC300 1.8l class. The car was imported into Australia and engine replaced with a B20VTEC. It has been fully rebuilt and ready to run. Its also recorded a 66 second lap at Perth's Wanneroo raceway

Is coming along as good as anyone can hope for. :D

Here is a complete list of mods :
Engine: B18 DOHC VTEC JDM ITR motor
Displacement: 1797cc
Power: 240hp@ 9300rpm (claimed)
Specific Output: 134HP/Litre
Car Weight: 1105kg

JDM JGTC300 class racing engine:
Mugen ‘Race Use Only’ ECU
Blueprinted
Port n Polished
Mugen Head Gasket
JDM Type R Cams
Modified Oil Sump
Forged Pistons
Knife Edged Crank

JDM Integra Type R 67mm Throttle Body
JDM Integra Type R Intake Manifold
JDM Integra Type R gearbox with 4.785 Final Drive
LSD
KYO Racing Short Air Intake
Custom JDM 4-1 Racing Headers
2.25 Cat Back Exhaust
High-Flow Cat.
Replica Mugen Twin Loop Muffler
Heavy Duty Clutch
AGIP Engine Oil
Iridium Plugs
EK9 suspension Springs/Dampers


Exterior:
Mugen Aero Body Kit
Carbon-fibre bonnet
15” Compomotive M05 Rims
ADVAN A032R Racing Radials
Bendix Advance Brake Pads
RAYBRIG HID Blue Headlight bulbs
JDM Clear side Markers

Interior:
OEM JDM Civic Type R interior:
EK9 Recaro Bucket Seats
EK9 Momo Steering Wheel
EK9 Red Carpet
EK9 Carbon Gauge Bezel
EK9 Carbon Centre Console
DC2R rear seats
EK9 Floormats
EK9 Red Arm Rests
EK9 Red Stitch Boot
EK9 Titanium Shifter
Leading Edge white Meter Dials

http://www.dohc-vtec.com.au/gallery/IMG_8448-small.jpg

please dont ask how fast it goes as its still on the hoist :rolleyes:

[vtc]

Wow..... i hope you have enough money to pay for petrol?

But apart from that very nice! what are your goals? track monster? i'd like to see some suspension and brake parts in there too! you'll need it..

How far away until this thing hits the road..

[Civic Type R]

The only thing holding me up is the header. Its made for a B18c block but as the oil sump is baffled and modified with a block girdle etc, its too deep for the header to wrap under. A friend is modifying it as i write :)

Now its payback time for Honda ;)

[newbie]

dont reallye know wat to say... WO0t! crazie and etc etc etc// i could go on foreva...

thats alot of $$$$$$??

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: did you have to import alot of parts or source from aus?

[rAySiR]

damn man... dats an awesome engine u got there..... :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

cars nice tooooo :thumbsup:

[Chi]

PWHOAR !!!!!

That is a top ride, who cares if it isnt a genuine ek9, Id rather have that car than teh real thing!!!

[spoondc2]

Very nice engine mate, so the engine is durable? By reading your mods, i think if possible, you could try to get JUN 80mm Throttle Body + Intake manifold, it could give you another 10ps

anyway what internals are you running on right now?

[baboo]

where is the car? All I see is the blonde.

[SiR JDM]

whoa that is a FUCCKING HOT CHICK.. oh and the cars not bad either :P

Yea good work mate!! Looking sexy and sounding sexy.. too bad in ur perth or i woulda stolen it already :P ..
Mind me asking how much it cost you all up and where you got the funds for it? And if youd like to fund my EG project =D?

[Civic Type R]

Thats all the mods ive been given for the engine. I know more has been done but its been specifically designed for race use, so despite trying endlessly to get more info on it, no one knows.
To answer the question on cost for the mods.
between 15k - 20k

Also, if anyone wants to sponsor me for some upcoming shows and events please feel free to let me know. :)


and hands off the girl :D

[vteccoupe]

woo..nice civic type R style u gt there...actually even though its nt the real one..bt all the essential parts to make it real is in.... :D
congrats on such a nice and cool ride..located in perth oso...if ever sees ur car on the street..wld give u a friendly honk !hehe

[imashy14u]

Damn what a hot girl...I mean car!!! :D You'll definitely scare alot of people with that monster. Let us know how you go when you take it for a run on the track or down the 1/4 mile.

Once again, great car :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Weq]

respect the effort. mod list is comprehensive and well thought out :)
hopefully it comes together and runs well, look forward to the results. i wonder how the engine life is. id like to see the dyno curve!

ps. do u have any figures on compression? its a race ecu so race fuel, i spose it will need to be detuned?

[wynode]

Nice..........very nice Adam!

That car is pretty much the equivalent of a rebuilt EK9 now :)

[[[d a n n y]]]

All of the R spirit..

1 thing missing though is the rear taillights.

[Civic Type R]

whats wrong with my tailights - lol
unless you have a set of altezzas to sell me.

I cant wait to get it down the 1/4 and on the dyno. It was supposed to be finished for last weekends Perth Auto Salon but some fitting differences hindered that schedule :(
O , the Mugen race ECU is tuned for 98 RON too.

cheers heaps for all the positive feedback :D

[tanghy]

which workshop is doing the work?

[Civ_97]

damn dude that is soooo damn nice. one of the best civics i think ive seen. looks amazing and has the performance to match by the sound of things.

oh and btw daaaaamn she is fine!

[fueltank]

nice car although two things I would've done would be
1. Foam filled the chasis (since u stripped it down anyway)
2. Seam weld it as well.

What is your aim for this car though?

[sesshoumaru]

mmm very nice. Should go fairly well when it's done.

I like everything about it, except the middle boot spoiler, but each to their own i guess :).

[EK9]

That's not a CTR!!! LOL! J/k Adam...

I gotta say that is mighty impressive! You are one hardcore ek9 fan... :thumbsup:
So where can i also find one of them bits to give my car a little more torque? Yeah, i'm talking about the engine ;)

Have u found a set of red door linings yet? U need a CTR cluster too... wot's that u got there atm??? Oh, don't forget 5 lugs to complete the project!

[[[d a n n y]]]

whats wrong with my tailights - lol
unless you have a set of altezzas to sell me.

I cant wait to get it down the 1/4 and on the dyno. It was supposed to be finished for last weekends Perth Auto Salon but some fitting differences hindered that schedule :(
O , the Mugen race ECU is tuned for 98 RON too.

cheers heaps for all the positive feedback :D


oh..nah..adam..
what i mean is it's not the CTR tailights
u still have the OEM EK4 lights. :honda:

[Civic Type R]

naa my tailights do me just fine. I tried the jdm CTR headlight conversion but failed to separate the damn glue to begin, so i gave up that.. lol

Andrew, Its been done by the expert team at Automotive Tuning Centre. The best in Perth !

[Perry]

i love you car mate, respect from me :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: ,
looking at ur car is like another image of me doing the similar stuff to my stuff

[Civic Type R]

my girl keeps asking me when im selling it. She hates it :(

[Setanta]

Looks great to me - who cares if it's not genuine? :)

[EK9]

wot's wrong wif ur tail lights? :confused:
96-98 spec CTR had the yellow blinkers
so they look fine to me, don't change them ;)

[pornstar]

vin, when u gonna let me drive ur car :)

[luzinit]

nice mate! good stuff
btw danny, 96-98spec ctr has same lights mate.... ;p

[wynode]

Only thing i'd change is the wing on top of the rear window.........i'd take it off :)

[joneblaze]

Nice car Adam. Looking mean and should go well too.


Only thing i'd change is the wing on top of the rear window.........i'd take it off :)
it's sorta like someone else I know who refuses to remove an ugly rear Civic wing.... ;)

[ginganggooly]

genuine??

don't need no stinking genuine. just make it quick enough to shut the doubters up :D

[Civic Type R]

well if anyone wants to shout out that the B16A wasnt quick enough compared to the real thing - EK9. I ran a 14.8sec 1/4mile with the old engine which is quicker thana stock EK9 anyway.

How fast will this one be ? I dont know. ?

[Xenon]

Great work..should be a monster on the roads..

Now u need to upgrade the brakes and sussy to make it complete.. :)

[VTEChnique]

man only thing i'm gonna bitch about is your mid-wing hahaha.. it screams out EK4.. never seen an EK9 with a mid-wing.. I been tellin you since day one hahaha.

ohh and I agree with the brakes.. your old ones got fryin' with the B16.. so imagine what it will be like with the new motor !! think a bit of safety here..

otherwise, good-shit - I just hope you can get it to run on 98..

have you asked around here about the "B18" stamp on the block ? I have theories but would like to hear what other people have to say first. can you post that pic you sent me ?

[Civic Type R]

Bede, checkout the gallery for the pics - under civic and tech :)

[Civic Type R]

yeah i know i need new brakes. but one thing at a time as brake upgrades arent the cheapest of mods. Also, yes the mid wing may have had its last day. Maybe that'll go by the weekend.
With regards to the B18. Aparantly it is a bare block supplied by honda for race use only. What that means is that the intended items in the block are all aftermarket and not oem supplied - makes sense ?
Hence knife edged crank and forged pistons etc ..

The ecu is plugged in and the 98RON is ready to be burnt

[sikcivic]

Ive got dibs on your ek4 brakes if you choose to sell them.

[Civic Type R]

anyone got a set of brake upgrade discs for the EK4 for sale ?

[pgclee]

i'll sell you my car if you want..hahaha...no more fuss...haha...hmm...u want spoon?

[joyride]

damn dude, the interior looks great!
sweet engine specs too.

[Civic Type R]

i'll sell you my car if you want..hahaha...no more fuss...haha...hmm...u want spoon?
pm me the details :)

[gambate]

where u get those A032R?
are they noisy?

[fueltank]

so this car is going to be a drag queen?

[Mr. Focus]

woah dude. lookin very nice there. big ups!

[egSi]

i like it man just not tha mags,

get some advan rgs or something

[Civic Type R]

The Mags look nice - although they are a bit heavy.
The rubber does make some noise but its ok and makes up for the grip :) A friend gave them to me.

[McChook]

A032Rs are pretty easy to get anywhere on the East coast... They are race tyres, we use them as control tyres on the Improved Production cars - In Sydney, you get them from The guy at Emu Plains who's name I can't remember..... Great tyres, but at $450+ for 17inch tyres, they ain't cheap

Once again, fu cking hot car

[LatinoHatchCrap]

Motor looks great!! what c/r does ot run?!!?

[Civic Type R]

we havent got around to a compression test yet.
As the stock JDM ITR is 11.1:1 and this engine has forged pistons and a mugen head gasket, i couldnt possibly tell you.

All i care is thank f**k we have 98RON at BP !

[SINISTR]

With regards to the B18. Aparantly it is a bare block supplied by honda for race use only. What that means is that the intended items in the block are all aftermarket and not oem supplied - makes sense ?


how are u going to register this as an engine swap then if its intended as a race use engine? they will want to view the engine before they allow you to change it on the licence paper... hope you don't have probs there?

and as you know ... to me... building a TypeR replica doesn't include using a b18C engine as they came out with B18B - so theres a bit of a discrepancy there... but yeah - hope its all good!

Mike

[SINISTR]

we havent got around to a compression test yet.
As the stock JDM ITR is 11.1:1 and this engine has forged pistons and a mugen head gasket, i couldnt possibly tell you.

All i care is thank f**k we have 98RON at BP !

my mate adam ran a 12.6:1 compression on a ZC - and i can tell you that with a good tune - that car was going through a set of spark plugs a week on normal street driving! you're putting a RACE engine here and may have FUN trying to use it as a daily driver!!!

m

[civicboy]

do u own dat car+engine? :)

[wynode]

how are u going to register this as an engine swap then if its intended as a race use engine? they will want to view the engine before they allow you to change it on the licence paper... hope you don't have probs there?

and as you know ... to me... building a TypeR replica doesn't include using a b18C engine as they came out with B18B - so theres a bit of a discrepancy there... but yeah - hope its all good!

Mike
I think u made a typo, but CTR came out with B16B

[Civic Type R]

Mikey why are you so worried and scared over this new engine :?
Do you think i havent done extensive research on it and worked out if things will work or not, how it will run and what i need to do with rego. Its all under control so just chill dude :)
YEs i know its no B16B. I dont want one and compared to this who would ;)

[Civic Type R]

do u own dat car+engine? :)
yes that is my car and engine.
wassup :wave:

[HyperZ]

yes that is my car and engine.
wassup :wave:

waw nice car! hehe :) clean interior too! :wave:

[SINISTR]

Mikey why are you so worried and scared over this new engine :?
Do you think i havent done extensive research on it and worked out if things will work or not, how it will run and what i need to do with rego. Its all under control so just chill dude :)
YEs i know its no B16B. I dont want one and compared to this who would ;)

who says im worried? im just asking you questions and bringing points to your attention... but since you have done your 'extensive' research you wont have any problems... just funny cos u already encountered some... BUT anyway - i'll leave it be - i'll just keep quiet from now on eh....

btw: its not gonna be a MUGEN Civic Type R replica now - so I guess all your work has just gone down the drain in a sence of technical specs hey?

anyway - my mouth is shut...

mike :D

[skoota]

Always been a fan of your car dude. But FAAARK that thing is gonna be a crazy-arsed machine. I'll drag you in my GLi!

[Civic Type R]

Mikey, i dont think you have an issue with me or how much research ive spent on this new engine and setup. But at the end of the day I think the point your trying to make is petty and not worth discussing.

The only problem i have encountered is the fitting of my intake to a 67mm throttle body from a 62mm one and the decision to modify the extractors instead of replace the modified oil sump with the stock one from the B16A.

When i was in Japan i saw plenty of EK9 CTRs and DC5ITRs. I was even lucky enough to come across some GT racing versions and not one of the EK9 CTRs had the stock B16B, but replaced them with B18c Spec R's like this motor. Thats my inspiration. :)

peace out.

[VTEC16]

Props to adam for equal show:go ratio :thumbsup:


who says im worried? im just asking you questions and bringing points to your attention... but since you have done your 'extensive' research you wont have any problems... just funny cos u already encountered some... BUT anyway - i'll leave it be - i'll just keep quiet from now on eh....

btw: its not gonna be a MUGEN Civic Type R replica now - so I guess all your work has just gone down the drain in a sence of technical specs hey?

anyway - my mouth is shut...

mike :D

Shut up you tool. no-one wants to hear what you have to say.

[SiR JDM]

btw: its not gonna be a MUGEN Civic Type R replica now - so I guess all your work has just gone down the drain in a sence of technical specs hey?
Bar the wing and the 4 studs, its Civic type R in full trim, inside and out (minus mechanicals)

The b18cR and the b16b are very similar engines ; regardless they are both type R engines.

If you put a type R engine in a civic, it is still none the less a Civic Type R in my opinion, especially since the car has full trims, inside out of a civic type R... it is a type R (be replica it or not)

The ITR and CTR share many common mechanical features such as the gearbox, engine block, etc etc...

I consider it a Civic Type R ... so props again Adam :)

[EK9]

Seriously dude... if you were planning on doing a swap into your car and had the chance to take a B16B or B18C, you would go the B18C. Right now, if someone offered to swap my B16B to a B18C Type R, i would do it cos even with a B16B, i still want more torque... and it's still a CTR.

Adam has the right idea... only if he wanted to CLONE a CTR would he go B16B, but he's doing wot he wants. Good job man :thumbsup:

[SiR CRX]

Your car is awesome mate, very impressed. Are you a member of Perth Performance by any chance? I know a few guys in that club like Peter (FIST) etc.

[panda[cRx]]

my girl keeps asking me when im selling it. She hates it :(

sell ya girl, keep the car

$50 :D

[SiR JDM]

55$ and ill pay for shipping.. =D

[Kawasaki]

Very nice! go stick it to those nissan heaps and show em what a true honda can do.

do you know if its 1.8 or 2L? and 245 hp would be a good estimate :P as thats what the JUN engines run at.

but very nice indeed. I'm saving up to do an aus jap dc5r, but that'll be a while off.

Cheers for the inspiration

[panda[cRx]]

sorry double post and unlike other forums it doesnt look like i can delete it :confused:

[panda[cRx]]

do you know if its 1.8 or 2L? and 245 hp would be a good estimate :P as thats what the JUN engines run at.

hahhahaha its b18c as in 1.8L :D
and no offence to adam as its a hot car but i doubt it would pack the punch of a full jun spec b18c which i'm guessing would sell for around 12k alone. (guess, dont quote me on this)

[SINISTR]

Props to adam for equal show:go ratio :thumbsup:



Shut up you tool. no-one wants to hear what you have to say.

Great Comment there! Keep up the Good work!!!

[Civic Type R]

Its a 1.8l engine.
Hey CRX SiR yes i know Pete very well. Have you seen his new HSV ? very nice !
Yes i am an administrator to PPCC and the club's events coordinator. I also will be representing them at Motorvation in a few months too :)

cheers dudes

[wynode]

']sorry double post and unlike other forums it doesnt look like i can delete it :confused:
Sorry done.

Nice work Adam.......and lets keep it on track guys :)

[LatinoHatchCrap]

we havent got around to a compression test yet.
As the stock JDM ITR is 11.1:1 and this engine has forged pistons and a mugen head gasket, i couldnt possibly tell you.

All i care is thank f**k we have 98RON at BP !

LOL! so true :thumbsup:

With 200+ hp i would say c/r of at least 12.5-13.0. your gona need a really good tuner and a good computer.

[Civic Type R]

i have had a chat to a few people who know the engine and they're saying it would be about 12.3- 12.5:1 CR

[weezer]

what cams are you going to be running with that much compression?

[Civic Type R]

it has stock JDM ITR cams - as ive been told.

[SiR CRX]

Sorry to go off topic but what car does Pete have now? Last I heard the blower on the Manta was screwed and he decided to get rid of the car just after the engine reuild :(

[Lyle_Style]

that is ****in SWEET MAN!, but i got one more word for you..
B O O S T !! :)

[CTR Coupe]

that is ****in SWEET MAN!, but i got one more word for you..
B O O S T !! :)


I've got one word for you too. KABOOM!.

hi comp + boost = KABOOM

[VTEChnique]

but i got one more word for you..
B O O S T !! :)

somebody please shoot this person HAHAHA

:wave:

[Civic Type R]

that is ****in SWEET MAN!, but i got one more word for you..
B O O S T !! :)

LOL !
on 12.5:1 compression. :rolleyes:

[SiR CRX]

LOL !
on 12.5:1 compression

Who cares if you blow your engine bro as long as you have the fullysik blow off noise thats all that matters :p

Note: We need a sarcasm button on here, I don't want people thinking this is actually my opinion :honda:

[Civic Type R]

hehe that'll be one very big and expensive blow off ;)

i pick it up tomorrow :D

[JohnnyBoy]

hehe that'll be one very big and expensive blow off ;)

i pick it up tomorrow :D


so.. how is it?!?!!? does it WHOOP!?!?!?

man.. i wish i had this type of dedication to build up car like this.. just way too much effort / $$$..

but i suppose, when it's a passion / obsession, nothing matters.. :P

[Civic Type R]

OK i finally got my car back this arvo.
It was put on the dyno and the poor thing is starving of fuel with the B16 fuel rail and injectors so now the next step is to go get some ITR ones.
The check engine light is on constantly so we'll have to see whats up with that ?

Apart from that, it has some good pulling power but i didnt go above 5000rpm. Hence im not allowed to if the engine is running lean. I cant wait to take it 9300 - where it should be. It was tuned with the B16 injectors and still produced a lot more than the B16 ever did at each rpm (well i bloody hopeso) but it will be fully tuned when these ITR injectors arrive :)

[tanghy]

have one set of ITR injectors, 180

[OLM-02R]

b16a -b18c7 same size injectors 240cc saturated... try and find a 92-96 prelude vtec they have 345cc injectors peak n hold...good luck dude :thumbsup:

[weezer]

b16a -b18c7 same size injectors 240cc saturated... try and find a 92-96 prelude vtec they have 345cc injectors peak n hold...good luck dude :thumbsup:


Then you'd need a resistor pack

[Civic Type R]

whats this resistor pack ???

[tanghy]

u need a resistor pack to run prelude injectors cos they are diff from B series ones

suggest u get fuel reg, up the press, get bigger fuel pump, unless u already done it

[imashy14u]

Injectors come in two main types (in terms of electrical) - hi resistance and low resistance. I think B series injectors are hi resistance and prelude ones are low resistance (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Therefore you'll need a resistor pack to change the resistance to match the injectors.

Also, there's injectors out there that flow differently - some are peak and hold while otheres are intermittant; also spray patterns can be different.

There's alot to consider, and injectors from different cars from the same manufacturer may vary sometimes as well.

So just keep these issues in mind. But most of the time, it's ok.

[weezer]

OBDI injectors are Low impedence and OBDII injectors are high impedence

[Weq]

well u just watsed a tune if ur running lean :/ get something decent in there - rc 440cc injectors go for realitvily cheap ~200USD on ebay and will deal with all ur fuel needs. DOnt waste money on regulators and rails, ur stock should be able to flow alot more HP then u will make. They are drop in, no ressiter packs needed. WHat kind of managment do u have? i thought u had a 'mugan' race ecu or something? or are u running a remapper like uberdata?

[Weq]

OBDI injectors are Low impedence and OBDII injectors are high impedence

This is just ignorant. Stop listening to these people who obviously have no experience at all.
DOnt bother with standard honda, im sure the prelude injectors will cost just as much as any aftermarket brand, which will outspray them 2-to-1.

[Civic Type R]

no i havent already done it Andrew ...
the mugen ECU is trying to pump more fuel into the engine but this is limited to the injectors. Atm the tuner has woulnd back the tuning to cater for what i have and he said there is a truckload of power im losing out on - if u know what i mean.
Can u run these prelude injectors without this resistor pack, fpr and pump ?

[Weq]

as soon as u increase the size of the injectors, u will double or increase the fuel injected along the whole rev range. Do u get what i mean? Your ecu will still think it has 240cc injectors and will pump the fuel in at the same rate. You need a way to trim ur MAP's back in line with the changes. Is ur mugen ecu able to be programed? I dont get what ur managment is! How DOES he tune ur car?
The honda fuel system is able to take plenty of HP. over 300hp+ people have goten without even upgrading the pump. You dont need ANYTHING accept injectors. A resister pack - if u decide to go down the road of peak and hold injectors - can be found on any DSM trading forum. They go for dirt cheap - 10-20usd max. but i wouldnt bother, unless u get the injectors for free. AS i said, RC are leaders in injection, and they ar cheap!

[Civic Type R]

The Mugen Race use only ECU is an OBD2 but im not sure if it can be remapped - my guess is no. Im no tuner so i dont know exactly what he did but he clearly indicated that the engine is running quite lean with the current 240cc injectors. As per the Mugen ecu and how much fuel its asking for - we dont know :(

I think the ecu thinks i have much larger injectors to be honest. Hence why its asking for more fuel.
Im hoping i can get a set of these RC injectors and that solves all our problems. Anyone got a set :P lol

[Weq]

Well its important to know what injectors should be running with the ECU. THe ECU may infact just be used to a higher rail pressure to inject more fuel per pulse?.. It seems all ur 'tuner' has done is stick her on the dyno with a wideband in the ass and checked A/F. Possibly ajusted timing manually. DO u know the current duty cycle on the injectors?? Id assume if the ECU was expecting bigger injectors, it would be lower then normal. hmmmmmm

[tanghy]

you cna't buy bigger injs and hope the mugen will solve your problems, it won't happen

[Civic Type R]

Weq, would you like to speak to my tuner ?
Im no expert with injectors or know exactly what i need or what the ECU really wants?

Im just trying to get this thing tuned before a drag day on the 17th. ATM i cant do anything and im starving the poor thing ..

[tanghy]

The Mugen Race use only ECU is an OBD2
i thought you said obd1?

[Civic Type R]

you cna't buy bigger injs and hope the mugen will solve your problems, it won't happen

Andrew thats a pretty cold answer. If you can assist me on how to solve the problem that would be nice but i dont see any helpfulness to that post of yours .. :rolleyes:

[Civic Type R]

i thought you said obd1?
Its OBD2. I have already proved and posted that mate

[monstaR]

Nicely done mate..... all i can say that it looks better than a ctr...lolz.... :D

[tanghy]

Andrew thats a pretty cold answer. If you can assist me on how to solve the problem that would be nice but i dont see any helpfulness to that post of yours .. :rolleyes:

if u want to run bigger inj, u need a programmable ecu to allow u to do that, the mugen can't do that, simple as that.

[Civic Type R]

if u want to run bigger inj, u need a programmable ecu to allow u to do that, the mugen can't do that, simple as that.

Well do you know what injectors this "race use only" ecu requires ?

[tanghy]

Well do you know what injectors this "race use only" ecu requires ?

"race only"injectors?

[Weq]

Hmms well what can i say...
1) Find out the specifics on the ECU. What size injectors its programmed to run, at what fuel pressure.
2) Dump the ECU, get something aftermarket or rechip!
3) Piggyback ECU like unichip or e-manage or an AFC (last resort) with some injectors of ~400cc. U will need ignition control though in any case for its full potential.
4) (very last) Adjustable pressure regulator and up the rail pressures until u get rich enough. Possibly need a new pump to keep up with demands.

[Weq]

"race only"injectors?

lol. =]

[Civic Type R]

Im trying to find out about this ecu and what it needs but my contact in Japan isnt getting back to me :( If anyone here knows ... ECU MAN ?? ... help :)

[tanghy]

borrow a type R ecu and run that

[Civic Type R]

yours ? :P

[Civic Type R]

would S2000 injectors work ?
and a VAFC

[Xenon]

The Mugen Race use only ECU is an OBD2 but im not sure if it can be remapped - my guess is no. Im no tuner so i dont know exactly what he did but he clearly indicated that the engine is running quite lean with the current 240cc injectors. As per the Mugen ecu and how much fuel its asking for - we dont know :(

I think the ecu thinks i have much larger injectors to be honest. Hence why its asking for more fuel.
Im hoping i can get a set of these RC injectors and that solves all our problems. Anyone got a set :P lol


RAther than trying to find unknown sized injectors to match the program of your mugen ecu, why dont u sell off the mugen and invest in a fully programmable unit.

Obviously the cost of the fully programmable ecu will be an additional expense, but at least you will be able to tune it to the modifications that you have rather than trying to modify your car to suit the unknown variables of your current mugen ecu.

Im sure you would also get much better power results this way too :wave:

[Civic Type R]

so i have 2 options now.
buy a VAFC2 and tune that with my setup and put back in the civic ECU and sell off the Mugen one.
or sell off the mugen ECU and replace it with a JDm ITR one.

hmm ?

[tanghy]

option 2 is better
option 1 sounds like a plan to blow the engine up

[demonic_sol]

this is one funny thread so here goes...

I am selling my VAFC + JDM Spec ITR ECU, may trade for the mugen unit for now....PM if interested.

Also i have the same query as Weq.


How DOES he tune ur car? ????

demonic_sol

[Civic Type R]

pm sent ..

[Civic Type R]

ok i love this insane world !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My good friend has just informed me he has a set of Mugen B16 N1 race injectors lying around. Maybe this will solve the problem :) ???

[pornstar]

Adam,

The ecu is tuned on the pulse width of the injectors that was on the mugen engine. By swapping the injectors out only, it changes the amount of fuel teh injectors will give, an example:
1) standard b18c type R injectors say rated to 240cc open for 2 seconds of "pulse width"
will give much less than say
2) a set of 550cc RC injectors open for 2 seconds.

If your unsure about anything give me a PM. Btw, I have type R injectors and fuel rail to suit b18cR, but they are no good to you.

give me a Pm if your unclear of anything or want to discuss anything. Dont worry about resistor boxes fuel pressure regulators etc, anyways, yeah here to help give me a PM.

[Civic Type R]

sweet, cheers man for your help.
I was going around in circles with how to solve the tuning of this new engine. Do you feel confident that if i use these B16 Mugen N1 injectors - which have a 50% higher flow rate over the 240cc, this will solve my problem ?

[pornstar]

i wouldnt feel confident unless i knew with 110% certainty that it was those size injectors thatt he mugen ecu was tuned for.

Please PM me for any other help

[Civic Type R]

atm the exhaust is picking up a co reading of 2.55%. on the dyno
he suggests it needs to be around 5-6%.
Does this help ?

[pornstar]

Please PM me for any other help


:rolleyes:

[Civic Type R]

lol .
PM's take too much time.

can u send me ur email please :)

[pornstar]

:thumbsup:

[Weq]

if u get ride of ur mugen ecu, u will loose ur new revlimit. remmber this.

[tanghy]

but are u sure the valvetrain is built for that revlimit?

[Civic Type R]

yes Andrew its been made to revv to the moon.
:)

[tanghy]

this is one funny thread so here goes...

I am selling my VAFC + JDM Spec ITR ECU, may trade for the mugen unit for now....PM if interested.

Also i have the same query as Weq.

????

demonic_sol


adam i will take this offer

[Civic Type R]

this is my new engine bay. Everythins all hooked up and ready to roll

http://www.ozhonda.com/gallery/data/509/280b18-2-med.jpg

[Civic Type R]

adam i will take this offer
its a thought but i dont exactly like the thought of this expensive engine being managed by a $250 piggy back ECU :o

[tanghy]

take the offer for the ecu
not the vafc

[Civic Type R]

ok i just spoke to the previous owner.
He wa running a stock ITR fuel rail but used a Fuel Pressure Regulator to pump in more fuel. It worked for him on the track ..
hmm

[demonic_sol]

yes Andrew its been made to revv to the moon.
:)

Are you sure about this?....when i spoke to the previous owner (no names mentioned) he couldnt guarantee that it had reinforced valve springs...seemed a bit weird so i went and sourced a front cut instead...i'd do yer homework just in case.

demonic_sol

[Civic Type R]

how do u know the previous owner ?

[Cyrus]

Nice Car, you should get the new injectors something around the vicinity of 440cc and get a full computer like Power FC. It gives you a lot more tuning room later on and saves a lot of hassle and probably cost you less in the long run. I am running a tuned B16A with spoon cams, toda valve springs, spoon head gasket and I maxed out the stock injectors at 9000rpm (The cams allow a powerband between 5500-10000 but since it's a daily driver, I prefer not to).

[demonic_sol]

how do u know the previous owner ?

bcause i was going to buy that engine...back in April / May..off the back of a truck...literally ;)

demonic_sol

[Civic Type R]

damn ..

i might take u up on that offer with the ECU.
can u give me a buzz on this number : 0409 080 372
ta

[VTEChnique]

just checked the codes..

was injectors and o2 sensor basically - Adam can u post what the codes were and see if anyone knows what the code 18 is for..

is definately running waaaay lean.. vtec was totally dulled out, the motor not putting out any torque - just like a starving engine.

after reading the posts on here (very entertaining) I think get the JDM ITR ECU, sell the VAFC and 'mugen' ECU, use the 'mugen' injectors and save up for Super FC.. as for a sky-high rev-limit, it's 'only' running ITR cams so revving past 8600 or thereabouts is pretty useless anyway. ther is no point havving an engine that can rev to 10,000RPM on paper if it isnt making any power up there.As for the valvetrain, Apparently the motor had TODA/JUN cams at some stage however if they were 'only' Toda A or B's or JUN stage I or II's, the motor may 'only' have relied on stock ITR components.

as for dragging on the 17th, I think you may not want to risk it at this stage. a rebuild would be another $3-4K.. is it really worth the risk ??

Motorplex wont go anywhere for a long time, so just try to be patient and get it tuned right before you go trying to snap the tacho needle :P

and whoever was asking about his 'tuner', you are right, he must have only been able to run it on a dyno with a wideband o2 sensor.. and yeah about all he could have done is retard the ignition timing manually.

[demonic_sol]

ive never heard of a code 18...as for the 17th why dun u save yer gas for the 24th....FTO PFUN.

demonic_sol

[Civic Type R]

OK, we looked at the error codes last nite.
The funny thing was there were two orange lights flashing: The check engine light and the orange SRS light.
The orange SRS light sent out these numbers: 16, 18, 61.
ok this is what happened. 1 long flash then 6 quick flashes then pause, 1 long flash then 8 quick flashes then pause, and 6 long flashes then 1 quick one. So im sure we diagnosed them correct.
But what is code 18 ? if thats it ?
The check engine light is still on and vtec is almost non existant. You can hear it actuatin g at 4800rpm but nothing is really happening. It has no pulling power.
I have got Mugen groupA injectors with me now and im about to get them cleaned.

[SINISTR]

OK, we looked at the error codes last nite.
The funny thing was there were two orange lights flashing: The check engine light and the orange SRS light.
The orange SRS light sent out these numbers: 16, 18, 61.
ok this is what happened. 1 long flash then 6 quick flashes then pause, 1 long flash then 8 quick flashes then pause, and 6 long flashes then 1 quick one. So im sure we diagnosed them correct.
But what is code 18 ? if thats it ?
The check engine light is still on and vtec is almost non existant. You can hear it actuatin g at 4800rpm but nothing is really happening. It has no pulling power.
I have got Mugen groupA injectors with me now and im about to get them cleaned.

I know what u need to do Adam... take that motor out and give it to me hahaha!

nah - at least your' getting there with the diagnosing - hope it all goes well soon and running sweet! Could it be maybe faulty sensors? or the wrong voltage/resistance on the sensors eg: O2 sensor? you had to get new ones didn't you? ive heard that if they are the wrong resistance they will throw codes because they go crazy with the ECU and the fuel etc...
Just an idea!

[Civic Type R]

Mikey, ur learning B series engines :)

[SINISTR]

Mikey, ur learning B series engines :)

Ive had that problem on my GENONEs EW5- which is an ancient engine compared to the b16a.

but have u done that?

[demonic_sol]

are u sure u are not misreading the code 18 (non-existent) for a code 9..ie:defective cylinder / sensor???.

Your loss in power even with vtec activated is suggestive of a cylinder issue...ie: u could only be running on 3 cylinders...

demonic_sol

[Civic Type R]

it was 18. Both Bede and myself checked it together about 5 times.

[ProECU]

Civic type R

Without running the risk of bringing this ECU talk back from the dead, here are a few pointers you may wish to take on board on regards to the mugen race only ecu.

Being a OBD2 ECU these are not widely chippable, ( it can be done, but its a real pain, If you can surface mount solder, you're half way there)

The factory honda code in these ECU's does not make allowances for larger injectors, nor does it make allowances for higher/lower fuel pressure. This is a common misconception.

The widely available and most common Honda ECU solution (not mentioning names) and my own development are able to do this by altering the final fuel multiplier by a scalar. Please note this is NOT possible with your STOCK code ECU.

If you simply replace your current injectors with larger RC's, you will run rich and likely not even idle properly. Larger injectors also have different timing requirements.

The reason the B18C-R motors still use 240cc injectors is because of the fuel pressure regulators, 50psi as compared to normal 43psi. Once again the code is still the same (no final fuel multiplier) however the fuel tables are "tuned" . Honda tend also to run their injectors at close to 100% duty cycle, there are many theories as to why this is done, however to be honest, I have no idea why! Very strange, but one thing is for certain, if you dont have the R fuel pressure regulator and are using stock injecorts.....WATCH OUT! especially at those high RPM's.

If you want/need more detail on any of this, feel free to PM me or hit me up on MSN evo@esc.net.au

Good Luck with your tuning.

[Civic Type R]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Cheers dude, i will speak to you soon.

[Weq]

Civic type R

Without running the risk of bringing this ECU talk back from the dead, here are a few pointers you may wish to take on board on regards to the mugen race only ecu.

Being a OBD2 ECU these are not widely chippable, ( it can be done, but its a real pain, If you can surface mount solder, you're half way there)

The factory honda code in these ECU's does not make allowances for larger injectors, nor does it make allowances for higher/lower fuel pressure. This is a common misconception.

The widely available and most common Honda ECU solution (not mentioning names) and my own development are able to do this by altering the final fuel multiplier by a scalar. Please note this is NOT possible with your STOCK code ECU.

If you simply replace your current injectors with larger RC's, you will run rich and likely not even idle properly. Larger injectors also have different timing requirements.

The reason the B18C-R motors still use 240cc injectors is because of the fuel pressure regulators, 50psi as compared to normal 43psi. Once again the code is still the same (no final fuel multiplier) however the fuel tables are "tuned" . Honda tend also to run their injectors at close to 100% duty cycle, there are many theories as to why this is done, however to be honest, I have no idea why! Very strange, but one thing is for certain, if you dont have the R fuel pressure regulator and are using stock injecorts.....WATCH OUT! especially at those high RPM's.

If you want/need more detail on any of this, feel free to PM me or hit me up on MSN evo@esc.net.au

Good Luck with your tuning.

Im sure this is a OBD1 ECU re thread in the technical section regarding a conversion harness.

[ProECU]

Yeah I read that thread also, doesn't he mention the plugs are OBD2?

[Civic Type R]

Its an OBD2 ECU

i cleared that up.

[demonic_sol]

if he's using his existing loom w/o an adapter then it has to be an obd2 ecu...assuming his loom is after 96.

demonic_sol

[Civic Type R]

yes it is dude :)

Im having it all checked out next friday.
We will be looking at it as is first to see what the problem is. Then we will look at the Mugen injectors and a new pump if its needed. I have a feeling the VTEC soleniod isnt working properly .. ?
All will be resolved then.
Cheers heaps for all your help and assistance on this - its certainly appreciated so a big thanks !

damn ... another week ..

[LatinoHatchCrap]

Have you considered HONDATA at any stage. I have my b18c running on 12.0:1 c/r and have had no problems at all. Maybe you should drop James an email to get a feel for what your options are. Good luck!!
I know from first hand having a high c/r motor is not as "hot" as its cracked up to be especially for daily driving :s

[ProECU]

You can always opt for a cheaper ProECU system also

[VTEChnique]

on the OBD issue of the 'race only' Mugen ECU, the mugen decal (genuine) looks a little old and tattered, but if it was OBD2, it is what 96 or newer which is 'only' a max of 8 years old. 90% of all ECU's i've seen are looking pretty straight, however is it possible to convert the sockets on an older OBD1 ECU to fit OBD2 plugs ?

VTEC solenoid is fine, otherwise you'd have NO VTEC at all and you would be also throwing VTEC related codes.

[demonic_sol]

[QUOTE=VTEChnique] however is it possible to convert the sockets on an older OBD1 ECU to fit OBD2 plugs ?QUOTE]

No...i dont think so b/c i tried to explore this option with my OBD2 Ecu to fit my OBD1 plugs...its a head-F%$^ and there is a different number of pins and they do not all correlate......so i had to do it the long way of tracing the wires and then splicing them into my existing harness....well not me...X-Speed did it :D

If u dun want to follow this route u can get some ppl in the US that make custom OBD2 --> OBD1 converters..around $200 bucks aussie...i know Weapon-R make a conversion harness like this.

demonic_sol

[bizee_1]

did someone say Mugen ?

i'm surprised no-one has said to give unky Robbie a call ! :rolleyes: :)
wonder what he would say anyway.... hehe

hope you get it all sorted out. still awaiting on the outcomes of this engine.

Ray

[Civic Type R]

Bede, You have to get a convertor harness if converting from OBD2 to OBD1.
But my ECU is OBD2 and always has been :)

YEs ive considered every ecu and piggyback ecus to fix the problem. I am taking to a workshop this friday to be tuned and looked at.

[Civic Type R]

OK i have had it with this Mugen ECU.
Its proving to be more hassle for me than its worth.

and those Mugen Injectors i have are the wrong resistance :(

OK now im open to more options. New, ECU, whatever ???
Demonic, whats the latest with that Jap ECU ?

[Xenon]

power fc, aem, hondata

[LatinoHatchCrap]

I can only give you advice of what I experienced so far and my take on things is that if you plan to drive daily with that much power you need something that controls the idle just as well as the high compression.
I also still think you're better off going for something thats locally distributed and supported. Chances are maintenance in the future will be required. Better to have that support when you needed.
Off the bat what are your local tuners offering? It would be a good idea to have a chat to them and ask them what they retail and what experience they have tuning high c/r motors.
I hope that helps. If you have any questions regarding my experiences with my Hondata alone let me know.

[Civic Type R]

I agree but NO ONE here in Perth knows how to work with this Mugen ECU or knows what to do. Every tuning shop is giving me different advice. Do this, buy that.. and they all say No to what other shops say whats best.
You see No one here is consistant with a solution, which means no one has any clue.

atm im paying for everything to be done and all the research with parts.

[PERTH_EURO]

hmmm what can i say.

thanks for the drive in the car adam.

truly lost for words, awesome engine and setup!! :) :)

[demonic_sol]

my vafc is still 4 sale if ne1 interested

demonic_sol

[Civic Type R]

Yes well i had the engine checked over yesterday and it came up with the goods. The error code were erased and fixed and some problematic sensors were replaced. So far so good. I have been advised to get a Walbro fuel pump with bigger capacity, check and set ignition timing to 16c and re-check mixtures.

I gave it a bit - under moderation, last night and it is running well. However, im still keen to get this pump, RC injectors and have it fine tuned. Pulling hard isnt hard enough for me.

[Cyrus]

Well, with the work amount you've done,...,you should have it perfect :)

[karbonphyber]

that is one good mod. lol
can u sponsor my EG too? lol
just joking!

good on you on the job! looks beautiful and very intimidating!

[Cyrus]

I've got a Power FC on my EK4,..and it's brilliant

[ProECU]

I can help you with a ProECU solution if you need it.
take it to PM or email if want to discuss further

Regards

[Civic Type R]

cheers man but ive got the Mugen one to work fine now :)
all i need now is a Walbro 255l/ph fuel pump and im set.

Yes a Power FC would be nice but im not aware of anyone over here having the ability to tune one of those. My mate with a Turbo Type R teg in Japan has one and my god its awsome but thats Japanese tuners for you.

[Civic Type R]

OK Project complete :)

Test results :
Ignition timing was 3-4degrees out.
fuel was too lean and now it fine with the installment of a 450HP Walbro fuel pump.
fuel is a tad rich at idle - low rpm -12-12.5 but at peak rpm its around 13.7.
Injectors are fine.
Mugen ECU is fine
Fuel pressure is fine and the rest is A ok :)
yay !

I know i had originally stated engine to be at 240HP but it was confirmed to be around the 215HP mark. = 160kw
a bit better than the 118kw in there originally :)

[r|Ce_bOi]

OK Project complete :)

Test results :
Ignition timing was 3-4degrees out.
fuel was too lean and now it fine with the installment of a 450HP Walbro fuel pump.
fuel is a tad rich at idle - low rpm -12-12.5 but at peak rpm its around 13.7.
Injectors are fine.
Mugen ECU is fine
Fuel pressure is fine and the rest is A ok :)
yay !

I know i had originally stated engine to be at 240HP but it was confirmed to be around the 215HP mark. = 160kw
a bit better than the 118kw in there originally :)

Great to Hear its all worked out Adam :)
after all the hassle and trouble you've been through i hope you are a very very very very very happy man !!!! :D

[DualCarb]

thats a tough choice... girl...car...girl...car...girl... of course, with the car you can have many girls ;)

[Weq]

so share us the dyno graph..! fuel looks good. those walbro pumps push alot of pressure and looks to have done the job.

[Biggie]

can i have her number?

[LatinoHatchCrap]

OK Project complete :)

Test results :
Ignition timing was 3-4degrees out.
fuel was too lean and now it fine with the installment of a 450HP Walbro fuel pump.
fuel is a tad rich at idle - low rpm -12-12.5 but at peak rpm its around 13.7.
Injectors are fine.
Mugen ECU is fine
Fuel pressure is fine and the rest is A ok :)
yay !

I know i had originally stated engine to be at 240HP but it was confirmed to be around the 215HP mark. = 160kw
a bit better than the 118kw in there originally :)

It would be interesting to see your power curve. The MUGEN ECU seems to work well with those ITR cams.
Another point is that 160kw at the flywheel means that in w/kw (due to 15% drivetrian loss) thats about 133w/kw +/-. That is really good power with stock cams :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Civic Type R]

when i get the car run over a dyno i will definately post it up :)

[Civic Type R]

Quarter mile time posted in Track / Drag racing thread.