spardikis
08-06-2009, 05:37 PM
(i stumbled past this on while researching about eg - ek - dc hub/knuckle compatability - hope it helps. Juts double check everything and take it as a guide if u are still unsure as i personally didnt organise this info myself)
:thumbsup:
:thumbsup:
referance link: http://www.shc-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=66191
1) FRONT BRAKES (Handling) Rating 10/10
Info:
(i)ESI/LSI (EH9/EG5/EG8/EG4) front brake rotors are 242mm in diameter with PCD 4X100.
(ii)EG6/EG9/EK3/EK4 front brake rotors are 262mm in diameter with PCD 4X100.
(iii)DC2 TypeR 98version onwards/ EK9/ Odessey/ Perlude front brake rotors are 282mm in diameter with PCD 5X114.3.
(iv)DC2 TypeR 96version front brake rotors are 262mm in diameter with PCD 4X114.3.
(v)Size of brake caliper pistons are: (i) < (ii) < (iii) & (iv). Means calipers from (iii) & (iv) have the biggest caliper pistons so more braking power.
(vi)Brakes from (iii) with 282mm rotors clears most 15"rims.
(vii)Front brakes are most important. But too big will affect yr brake balance/bias. If not upgrading the rear brakes, max advisable is 282mm.
Upgrade:
(a) Those in (i) can upgrade to Mitsubishi EVO3 front brakes (2pot caliper + 286mm rotors). If i remember correctly, only the calipers need some skim and is direct fit. However, it may be a problem if u need to replace the rotors coz its not easily available.
(b) Those in (i) can upgrade to (ii) but must use with the knuckles from (ii). No knuckles, brakes wont fit. Means getting the knuckles+caliper+brake rotor. Items are direct fit, no mods required. U also need to send yr car for realignment. If already using knuckles from (ii), u can also consider going for bigger brakes from (iii) & (iv). See (c) & (d) below.
(c) Those in (ii) can upgrade to (iii). Need to get the caliper+brake rotor. The rotors need to be re-drilled 4XPCD100 and the caliper brackets needs abit of machine skim (abt 3mm) for direct fit. The drill & machine costs is about $80-$100. No need to send car for realignment.
(d) Those in (ii) can upgrade to (iv). Just need to get the caliper. Reuse yr stock 262mm rotors. The caliper brackets needs abit of machine skim (abt 3mm) for direct fit. The drill & machine costs is about $40-$60. No need to send car for realignment.
2) BRAKE HOSES (Handling) Rating 7/10
Info:
(i)ESI & LSI (EH9/EG5/EG8/EG4) and EG6/EG9/EK3/EK4 brake hoses should be compatible.
(ii)Stock brake hose is made of rubber & prone to flexing during hard braking.
Upgrade:
(a)Steel braided hose to replace the rubber brake hoses (gives u a harder feel=more responsive) Price avg between $150-200 include labour. Very important to ensure that proper brake bleeding is peformed.
3) MASTER BRAKE CYCLINDER (Handling) Rating 8/10
Info:
(i) Big black round pancake looking thing mounted on yr engine firewall with the brake fluid reservoir pump.
(ii)There are 2 components. The master air pump (more layers=more air=better brake response) & the brake fluid cyclinder (bigger internal piston=more pressure=more response).
(iii)ESI & LSI (EH9/EG5/EG8/EG4) Master air pump is single layer.
(iv)EG6/EG9/EK3/EK4/DC2/EK9 master air pump is double layer.
(v)The biggest brake fluid cyclinder (in terms of piston size) comes from DC2r and EK9.
(vi)There are 2 types of brake fluid cyclinder. Those cars without ABS, both the brake piping is same size. For brake fluid cyclinder that comes from cars with ABS, 1 of the brake pipe is bigger size.
Upgrade:
(a) Those in (iii) can upgrade to (iv) and best to get the brake fluid cyclinder together. Its direct fit but need to take note of point (vi) cause you may need to custom 1 of the brake pipe.
(b) Those in (iv) or those using big 4-pot brakes can upgrade to (v). Direct fit but also take note of point (vi).
4) BRAKE PADS (Handling) Rating 8/10
Info:
(i)Bigger brake calipers use bigger pads. See point (1) above.
(ii)High temp pads have more "bite" but there is tendency to wear off your rotors faster. Best to select a moderate temp rating to suit yr driving needs.
Upgrade:
(a) There are many aftermarket brands available like Bendix, Mintex etc. For normal & occasional track use, I find best to use max 650degree pads.
5) REAR BRAKES (Handling) Rating 7/10
Info:
(i)ESI (EH9/EG5) and EG6/EG9/EK3/EK4 rear brake rotor is 240mm with PCD4X100.
(ii)LSI (EG4/EG8) use rear drum brakes.
(ii)DC2R 98version onwards and EK9 use 262mm rear rotors with PCD 5X114.3.
Upgrade:
(a) For LSI, the rear drum brakes can be converted to rear disc brakes from (i). But alot of swap work involve, including the brake pipings. Very important to include the brake valves. Not really worth the effort.
(b) For those in (i), most engine set-up dont warrant the need to upgrade the rear brakes unless your front brakes are going above 282mm. In that case, it will be better to do a full Dc2r or EK9 chassis swap which includes the rear 262mm brakes.
6) STRUCT BARS (Handling) Rating 9/10
Info:
(i)ESI/LSI (EH9/EG5/EG8/EG4/EK3) do not come with any struct bars.
(ii)EG6/EG9/EK4/DC2/EK9 comes with oem front steel tower struct bar.
(iii)DC2 TypeR 98version onwards comes with oem front aluminum tower struct bar.
(iv)Struct bars for (i), (ii) and (iii) are compatible and direct fit.
Upgrade:
(a)To strengthen the car chassis, it is good to install struct bars to prevent too much body flex especially during hard corners. The common types are front tower bar (install in the engine bay), rear tower bar (install in the boot), front lower tie bar (at the undercarriage, juz below the driveshafts), rear lower tie bar (at the rear undercarriage, between the rear lower arms).
(b)In order of effectiveness, front tower bar then rear lower tie bar then rear tower bar then front lower tie bar. Got $, install all.
7) ANTI ROLL BARS (Handling) Rating 9/10
Info:
(i)LSI (EG8/EG4) do not come with any anti-roll bars.
(ii)ESI(EH9/EG5)/EG6/EG9/EK3 comes with oem front (22mm) & rear (12mm) anti roll bars.
(iii)EK4 comes with oem front (26mm)& rear (15mm)anti roll bars.
(iv)DC2 TypeR comes with oem front (24/25mm) & rear (22/23mm) anti roll bars.
(v)EK9 comes with oem front (26mm) & rear (22mm)anti roll bars.
(vi) (iii) and (v) are compatible and direct fit.
(vii) (ii) and (iv) are compatible and direct fit.
(viii) The thicker the bars, the lesser the car body flexes/roll. Going too big without strengthing other areas may cause faster wear & tear, especially on chassis, bushings & suspension. RULE OF THUMB: The rear bar cannot be bigger then the front.
Upgrade:
(a) Those in (i) can upgrade to (ii) but must use with the front & rear lower control arms from (ii). No arms, u cant secure the anti roll bars. Means getting the lower arms+anti-roll bars+anti-roll bar bushing+anti-roll bar mounting brackets. Items are direct fit, no mods required. If already using lower arms from (ii), u can also consider going for bigger bars from (iv). See (b) below.
(b) Those in (ii) can upgrade to (iv). The front bar is direct fit. Means getting the front anti-roll bar+anti-roll bar bushings+anti-roll bar mounting brackets. For the rear bar, u need to send the mounting brackets to exhaust shops to mod so that the bar can secure properly.
(b) Those in (iii) can upgrade to the rear bar from (v). Means getting the rear anti-roll bar+anti-roll bar bushings+anti-roll bar mounting brackets. Similiarly u need to send the mounting brackets to exhaust shops to mod so that the bar can secure properly. If not, there are aftermarket brace plates available for direct bolt on.
8 ) SUSPENSION (Handling) Rating 8/10
Info:
(i)EH9/EG4/EG5/EG6/EG8/EG9/EK3/EK4/DC2 front suspension is same and compatible.
(ii)DC2 Typer 96 version and some EG4/EG8 rear suspension is "hub" type. Slot into the rear hub & not secured by bolts on the rear lower arms like (iii) & (iv).
(iii)Most EH9/EG4/EG5/EG6/EG8/EG9/DC2 onwards rear suspension is fork type and compatible. The suspension bushing is longer than (iv).
(iv)EK4/EK3/EK9 rear suspension is same fork type as (iii) but the suspension bushing is shorter than (iii).
(v)To lower ur car, u can just swap lowering springs on your stock suspension or to use adjustable suspension. See section (9) on camber kits.
Upgrade:
(a) For budget upgrades, KONI shocks with lowering springs is a common option. KONI shocks have 3 adjustable heights and u can also adjust the "hardness" of the shocks. This set-up is only gd for those with smaller budgets and drivers with mild driving habits. If u love hard cornerings, the shocks wont last more than 1yr. 1 new shock is abt $125 each and a set (4 pieces) of lowering springs is abt $200-300.
(b) For better performance, Coilovers are good. There are japan brands like TEIN and taiwan ones like BC etc. Usually newer coilovers are height adjustable with damping adjustment points for "hardness" level of the shocks. I find TEIN coilovers reliable and worth the $ spent. There is a series of coilovers from HR to SS for street racing to track use. U might want to check out the chart in TEIN webside to find out wat suits ur ride.
(c) When changing suspension, take note of (ii), (iii) and (iv). It is common for EG bros using TEIN coilovers designed for EK rides, u need to machine off to shorten yr rear lower arm metal bushing to fit the rear coilover.
(d) When u buy 2nd hand suspension set-up, it is best u send to a workshop to check for leaks. Coilovers are usually serviceable but the normal suspension like KONI is not.
(e) There is such thing as a "spring adjustor" (black rubber thingy) to wrap around yr springs to stiffen yr ride. Not a gd product coz it can slip off the springs and u will have a hard time getting it back in position. Anyway, if yr springs are getting softer.. u shd probably get a new set of springs.
9) ADJUSTABLE CAMBER KITS (Handling) Rating 7/10
Info:
(i)EG front camber kit is different from EK.
(ii)EG & EK rear camber kit is same.
Upgrade:
(a) When u change ur suspension height or could be due to diff tyre size), the camber setting will be affected and u need to get adjustable camber kits to align yr tyres. It is common for ppl to lower their rides and ignore the camber settings, resulting is adnormal wear on the inside of the tyres. Proper camber setting will ensure proper traction.
(b) A budget set-up is to use adjustable camber kit for the front and stack washers for the rear.
10) ENGINE MOUNTINGS (Handling) Rating 9/10
Info:
(i)There are 3 main engine mounts (left, right and bottom) and 2 small bushing (gearbox and air-con) in the engine bay.
(ii)OEM engine mounts are generally soft to allow engine free play. However, movements = lost energy.
(iii)The 3 main engine mounts for EG/EK/DC are same (except EK4 left & right, EK9 left & right and DC2r left).
(iv)The 2 small bushing for EG/EK/DC are same (except EK4 and EK9).
Upgrade:
(a) Easy & cheapo way to stiffen as well as strengthen the mounts is to inject silicon to cover up the hollow spaces. Make sure u use high temperature silicon and it is properly dried up before u install.
(b) Common alternative is to invest in energy suspension mount inserts. Ur engine will flex less at the expense of more vibrations.. so better think carefully before u venture to this. But this is important mod for big power engine set-ups.
11) SHIFTERS FOR MANUAL CARS (Handling) Rating 6/10
Info:
(i)2 main components. The shifter rods and the shifter.
(ii)The shifter rods for DOHC EG/EK are same except (EK9 and DC2R)
(iii)The shifter rods for SOHC EG/EK are same.
(iv)The shifters DOHC/SOHC EG/EK are same except for (EK9 and DC2R).
Upgrade:
(a) The stock gear shifter throw is too long. Changing to a short shifter will shorten yr shift throw. There are some common cheap short shifters for abt $60-80 where the base height is longer. u might have to check whether the shift rod touches yr exhaust piping when its installed. If so, u might need to go to an exhaust wkshop to adjust the exhaust piping slightly.
(b) For DOHC EG/EK, can upgrade to the EK9 or DC2r thicker shift rods and shorter shifters. Direct fit.
(c) There is aftermarket "energy bushing" for the shifter bushings. I'm currently using it and I can hardly feel any difference against a stock bushings.
:thumbsup:
:thumbsup:
referance link: http://www.shc-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=66191
1) FRONT BRAKES (Handling) Rating 10/10
Info:
(i)ESI/LSI (EH9/EG5/EG8/EG4) front brake rotors are 242mm in diameter with PCD 4X100.
(ii)EG6/EG9/EK3/EK4 front brake rotors are 262mm in diameter with PCD 4X100.
(iii)DC2 TypeR 98version onwards/ EK9/ Odessey/ Perlude front brake rotors are 282mm in diameter with PCD 5X114.3.
(iv)DC2 TypeR 96version front brake rotors are 262mm in diameter with PCD 4X114.3.
(v)Size of brake caliper pistons are: (i) < (ii) < (iii) & (iv). Means calipers from (iii) & (iv) have the biggest caliper pistons so more braking power.
(vi)Brakes from (iii) with 282mm rotors clears most 15"rims.
(vii)Front brakes are most important. But too big will affect yr brake balance/bias. If not upgrading the rear brakes, max advisable is 282mm.
Upgrade:
(a) Those in (i) can upgrade to Mitsubishi EVO3 front brakes (2pot caliper + 286mm rotors). If i remember correctly, only the calipers need some skim and is direct fit. However, it may be a problem if u need to replace the rotors coz its not easily available.
(b) Those in (i) can upgrade to (ii) but must use with the knuckles from (ii). No knuckles, brakes wont fit. Means getting the knuckles+caliper+brake rotor. Items are direct fit, no mods required. U also need to send yr car for realignment. If already using knuckles from (ii), u can also consider going for bigger brakes from (iii) & (iv). See (c) & (d) below.
(c) Those in (ii) can upgrade to (iii). Need to get the caliper+brake rotor. The rotors need to be re-drilled 4XPCD100 and the caliper brackets needs abit of machine skim (abt 3mm) for direct fit. The drill & machine costs is about $80-$100. No need to send car for realignment.
(d) Those in (ii) can upgrade to (iv). Just need to get the caliper. Reuse yr stock 262mm rotors. The caliper brackets needs abit of machine skim (abt 3mm) for direct fit. The drill & machine costs is about $40-$60. No need to send car for realignment.
2) BRAKE HOSES (Handling) Rating 7/10
Info:
(i)ESI & LSI (EH9/EG5/EG8/EG4) and EG6/EG9/EK3/EK4 brake hoses should be compatible.
(ii)Stock brake hose is made of rubber & prone to flexing during hard braking.
Upgrade:
(a)Steel braided hose to replace the rubber brake hoses (gives u a harder feel=more responsive) Price avg between $150-200 include labour. Very important to ensure that proper brake bleeding is peformed.
3) MASTER BRAKE CYCLINDER (Handling) Rating 8/10
Info:
(i) Big black round pancake looking thing mounted on yr engine firewall with the brake fluid reservoir pump.
(ii)There are 2 components. The master air pump (more layers=more air=better brake response) & the brake fluid cyclinder (bigger internal piston=more pressure=more response).
(iii)ESI & LSI (EH9/EG5/EG8/EG4) Master air pump is single layer.
(iv)EG6/EG9/EK3/EK4/DC2/EK9 master air pump is double layer.
(v)The biggest brake fluid cyclinder (in terms of piston size) comes from DC2r and EK9.
(vi)There are 2 types of brake fluid cyclinder. Those cars without ABS, both the brake piping is same size. For brake fluid cyclinder that comes from cars with ABS, 1 of the brake pipe is bigger size.
Upgrade:
(a) Those in (iii) can upgrade to (iv) and best to get the brake fluid cyclinder together. Its direct fit but need to take note of point (vi) cause you may need to custom 1 of the brake pipe.
(b) Those in (iv) or those using big 4-pot brakes can upgrade to (v). Direct fit but also take note of point (vi).
4) BRAKE PADS (Handling) Rating 8/10
Info:
(i)Bigger brake calipers use bigger pads. See point (1) above.
(ii)High temp pads have more "bite" but there is tendency to wear off your rotors faster. Best to select a moderate temp rating to suit yr driving needs.
Upgrade:
(a) There are many aftermarket brands available like Bendix, Mintex etc. For normal & occasional track use, I find best to use max 650degree pads.
5) REAR BRAKES (Handling) Rating 7/10
Info:
(i)ESI (EH9/EG5) and EG6/EG9/EK3/EK4 rear brake rotor is 240mm with PCD4X100.
(ii)LSI (EG4/EG8) use rear drum brakes.
(ii)DC2R 98version onwards and EK9 use 262mm rear rotors with PCD 5X114.3.
Upgrade:
(a) For LSI, the rear drum brakes can be converted to rear disc brakes from (i). But alot of swap work involve, including the brake pipings. Very important to include the brake valves. Not really worth the effort.
(b) For those in (i), most engine set-up dont warrant the need to upgrade the rear brakes unless your front brakes are going above 282mm. In that case, it will be better to do a full Dc2r or EK9 chassis swap which includes the rear 262mm brakes.
6) STRUCT BARS (Handling) Rating 9/10
Info:
(i)ESI/LSI (EH9/EG5/EG8/EG4/EK3) do not come with any struct bars.
(ii)EG6/EG9/EK4/DC2/EK9 comes with oem front steel tower struct bar.
(iii)DC2 TypeR 98version onwards comes with oem front aluminum tower struct bar.
(iv)Struct bars for (i), (ii) and (iii) are compatible and direct fit.
Upgrade:
(a)To strengthen the car chassis, it is good to install struct bars to prevent too much body flex especially during hard corners. The common types are front tower bar (install in the engine bay), rear tower bar (install in the boot), front lower tie bar (at the undercarriage, juz below the driveshafts), rear lower tie bar (at the rear undercarriage, between the rear lower arms).
(b)In order of effectiveness, front tower bar then rear lower tie bar then rear tower bar then front lower tie bar. Got $, install all.
7) ANTI ROLL BARS (Handling) Rating 9/10
Info:
(i)LSI (EG8/EG4) do not come with any anti-roll bars.
(ii)ESI(EH9/EG5)/EG6/EG9/EK3 comes with oem front (22mm) & rear (12mm) anti roll bars.
(iii)EK4 comes with oem front (26mm)& rear (15mm)anti roll bars.
(iv)DC2 TypeR comes with oem front (24/25mm) & rear (22/23mm) anti roll bars.
(v)EK9 comes with oem front (26mm) & rear (22mm)anti roll bars.
(vi) (iii) and (v) are compatible and direct fit.
(vii) (ii) and (iv) are compatible and direct fit.
(viii) The thicker the bars, the lesser the car body flexes/roll. Going too big without strengthing other areas may cause faster wear & tear, especially on chassis, bushings & suspension. RULE OF THUMB: The rear bar cannot be bigger then the front.
Upgrade:
(a) Those in (i) can upgrade to (ii) but must use with the front & rear lower control arms from (ii). No arms, u cant secure the anti roll bars. Means getting the lower arms+anti-roll bars+anti-roll bar bushing+anti-roll bar mounting brackets. Items are direct fit, no mods required. If already using lower arms from (ii), u can also consider going for bigger bars from (iv). See (b) below.
(b) Those in (ii) can upgrade to (iv). The front bar is direct fit. Means getting the front anti-roll bar+anti-roll bar bushings+anti-roll bar mounting brackets. For the rear bar, u need to send the mounting brackets to exhaust shops to mod so that the bar can secure properly.
(b) Those in (iii) can upgrade to the rear bar from (v). Means getting the rear anti-roll bar+anti-roll bar bushings+anti-roll bar mounting brackets. Similiarly u need to send the mounting brackets to exhaust shops to mod so that the bar can secure properly. If not, there are aftermarket brace plates available for direct bolt on.
8 ) SUSPENSION (Handling) Rating 8/10
Info:
(i)EH9/EG4/EG5/EG6/EG8/EG9/EK3/EK4/DC2 front suspension is same and compatible.
(ii)DC2 Typer 96 version and some EG4/EG8 rear suspension is "hub" type. Slot into the rear hub & not secured by bolts on the rear lower arms like (iii) & (iv).
(iii)Most EH9/EG4/EG5/EG6/EG8/EG9/DC2 onwards rear suspension is fork type and compatible. The suspension bushing is longer than (iv).
(iv)EK4/EK3/EK9 rear suspension is same fork type as (iii) but the suspension bushing is shorter than (iii).
(v)To lower ur car, u can just swap lowering springs on your stock suspension or to use adjustable suspension. See section (9) on camber kits.
Upgrade:
(a) For budget upgrades, KONI shocks with lowering springs is a common option. KONI shocks have 3 adjustable heights and u can also adjust the "hardness" of the shocks. This set-up is only gd for those with smaller budgets and drivers with mild driving habits. If u love hard cornerings, the shocks wont last more than 1yr. 1 new shock is abt $125 each and a set (4 pieces) of lowering springs is abt $200-300.
(b) For better performance, Coilovers are good. There are japan brands like TEIN and taiwan ones like BC etc. Usually newer coilovers are height adjustable with damping adjustment points for "hardness" level of the shocks. I find TEIN coilovers reliable and worth the $ spent. There is a series of coilovers from HR to SS for street racing to track use. U might want to check out the chart in TEIN webside to find out wat suits ur ride.
(c) When changing suspension, take note of (ii), (iii) and (iv). It is common for EG bros using TEIN coilovers designed for EK rides, u need to machine off to shorten yr rear lower arm metal bushing to fit the rear coilover.
(d) When u buy 2nd hand suspension set-up, it is best u send to a workshop to check for leaks. Coilovers are usually serviceable but the normal suspension like KONI is not.
(e) There is such thing as a "spring adjustor" (black rubber thingy) to wrap around yr springs to stiffen yr ride. Not a gd product coz it can slip off the springs and u will have a hard time getting it back in position. Anyway, if yr springs are getting softer.. u shd probably get a new set of springs.
9) ADJUSTABLE CAMBER KITS (Handling) Rating 7/10
Info:
(i)EG front camber kit is different from EK.
(ii)EG & EK rear camber kit is same.
Upgrade:
(a) When u change ur suspension height or could be due to diff tyre size), the camber setting will be affected and u need to get adjustable camber kits to align yr tyres. It is common for ppl to lower their rides and ignore the camber settings, resulting is adnormal wear on the inside of the tyres. Proper camber setting will ensure proper traction.
(b) A budget set-up is to use adjustable camber kit for the front and stack washers for the rear.
10) ENGINE MOUNTINGS (Handling) Rating 9/10
Info:
(i)There are 3 main engine mounts (left, right and bottom) and 2 small bushing (gearbox and air-con) in the engine bay.
(ii)OEM engine mounts are generally soft to allow engine free play. However, movements = lost energy.
(iii)The 3 main engine mounts for EG/EK/DC are same (except EK4 left & right, EK9 left & right and DC2r left).
(iv)The 2 small bushing for EG/EK/DC are same (except EK4 and EK9).
Upgrade:
(a) Easy & cheapo way to stiffen as well as strengthen the mounts is to inject silicon to cover up the hollow spaces. Make sure u use high temperature silicon and it is properly dried up before u install.
(b) Common alternative is to invest in energy suspension mount inserts. Ur engine will flex less at the expense of more vibrations.. so better think carefully before u venture to this. But this is important mod for big power engine set-ups.
11) SHIFTERS FOR MANUAL CARS (Handling) Rating 6/10
Info:
(i)2 main components. The shifter rods and the shifter.
(ii)The shifter rods for DOHC EG/EK are same except (EK9 and DC2R)
(iii)The shifter rods for SOHC EG/EK are same.
(iv)The shifters DOHC/SOHC EG/EK are same except for (EK9 and DC2R).
Upgrade:
(a) The stock gear shifter throw is too long. Changing to a short shifter will shorten yr shift throw. There are some common cheap short shifters for abt $60-80 where the base height is longer. u might have to check whether the shift rod touches yr exhaust piping when its installed. If so, u might need to go to an exhaust wkshop to adjust the exhaust piping slightly.
(b) For DOHC EG/EK, can upgrade to the EK9 or DC2r thicker shift rods and shorter shifters. Direct fit.
(c) There is aftermarket "energy bushing" for the shifter bushings. I'm currently using it and I can hardly feel any difference against a stock bushings.