eg civic missfire and stall. timing issue?

[scottx3]

UPDATE PAGE 2


Hey all. Bit of a long story, but here we go.

Girlfriend has an eg civic gli sedan. about a 3 weeks ago now the car randomly wouldnt start one morning. cranking over fine but not firing. got the car going with some new leads and plugs but it was missfiring and eventually gave up one day while she was driving to work. got the car towed home and got my mechanic bro to have a look. he says," car is cranking fast like its low on compression". so we check the timing belt and its a bit too loose for comfort. i change the belt and tensioner thinking it has skipped a tooth and line up the new belt perfectly only to realise that i have the new belt exactly where the old one was.... annoying (and a bastard of a job to do as well). end up changing coil and ignition module because it appeared to not be getting any spark. still not starting. changed fuel filter and checked fuel pressure/injector pulse. all was good there. check timing and it was way out. adjusted dizzy and it started but was still way out but running smooth (suggesting timing belt is lined up correct. ask another friend to have a look and he says the timing is perfect. checked for myself and it was. WTF??? then i check again 5 mins later and it was way out again. looked up trusty ol ozhonda for some advise and checked for PGMFI codes but didnt get any. also tested the ECT sensor and it was fine. have since pulled out ecu but dont know what im looking for here.

my opinion is that it is either something to do with the magnetic pickup in the dizzy or something with the ecu. i also just replaced the 7.5 backup fuse that was blown. but this has made no difference to the timing. tried to get a replacement dizzy but no luck with getting one yet.

thanks for reading and hopefully you can help out.

cheers.
Scott

[CRXer]

are u shorting out the SCS connector,warming up the motor,have all other electrical loads turned off & have a decent normal idle speed when u r setting the timing?

[SuiJin]

is ur tensioner even bolted.

[scottx3]

tensioner is tight and set as per workshop manual. i didnt know you had to have the scs shorted to set the timing so i'll try that, but doubt it will change much. i was just testing then TDC sensor and im not getting 2v at idle so i think a new dizzy is next after i try reset the timing.

thanks guys. i'll let u know how i go.

[scottx3]

ok reset timing and no change. think i'll go for a new dizzy.

[CRXer]

u have to short the SCS to stop the ecu making timing adjusments while your setting timing on the dizzy.

u cant check the TDC sensor with a simple volt test,u need an oscilloscope or similar,the best u can do is make sure there is the specified resistance across the TDC pickup & also make sure it is not grounded in any way.

if your getting no codes then i doubt u will need a new dizzy base,but hey,anythings possible.

are u using resistor type spark plugs?

[scottx3]

not sure what plugs. just the ones that it says on the cam cover. i just think its weird that it was driving perfect one day and then the next morning it wouldnt start.

[whtteg]

Ive had exactly the same problem happening, it only happened occasionally but ran like a dream 99% of the time until sat morn when the car died completely on my way to the airport (it couldnt have happened at a worse time), it was the dizzy. Once the dizzy was changed it runs perfectly.

[beeza]

Ive had exactly the same problem happening, it only happened occasionally but ran like a dream 99% of the time until sat morn when the car died completely on my way to the airport (it couldnt have happened at a worse time), it was the dizzy. Once the dizzy was changed it runs perfectly.

Yeah.Going on this,the problems I have had and from what U have said I would say the dizzy too.

It's all certainly pointing towards the dizzy.Try just the dizzy cap first before swapping the whole dizzy in.


I didn't know that either - You have to short out the SCS connector to set the timing...cheers for that!

[scottx3]

thanks guys. i will change the dizzy cap and rotor just in case and if that doesnt fix it i will get another dizzy and put all the new stuff in that.

i'll keep you posted on the outcome.

scott.

[CRXer]

have u pulled the spark plugs since u installed new ones & had a look at them?

[scottx3]

yeah. they were fine. a bit wet but alright.

went to bursons and they couldnt find a listing for an eg civic or a d15b7 engine in their bosch rotor button and dissy cap book. will get missus to order one through her work.

[scottx3]

ok i went to hondworld in oakleigh (very helpful guys) and they said before getting a dizzy i should check the timing. they said it should be lined up so that the single mark lines up with the mark on the plastic cover. i have it lined up so that the other 2 marks line up with the head (as specified for the d15b7 in the manual)

can anyone confirm this? it would explain why the timing is out i guess.

[CRXer]

i dont know what marks exist on a d15 pulley,but the mark by itself usually denotes TDC,then on mine for example there are 3 marks at 14*,16*,18* BTDC(anticlockwise on pulley from TDC mark). U usually try to aim for the 16* mark,which is the centre mark on mine coloured red. The 14* & 18* marks are just for guidance so u remain in the +-2* tolerance.

i would prob run some wiring checks on the dizzy sensors all the way back to the ecu,before buying a dizzy base,even making sure the dizzy sensor wire pairs are shielded properly still.

[scottx3]

sorry. i was talking about the cam marks

[CRXer]

oh ok,lol,wondered why u said "head".

i vaguely remember someone ranting before about VTEC & non VTEC having different head markings,maybe something u should confirm,sorry i cant help,never owned a SOHC in my life.

[scottx3]

UPDATE


well after messing around with the timing belt i had no luck, so set it and left it. lined up timing marks all perfect and it would run fine one day and not start the next. was going to buy a new dizzy for it but the missus talked me out of it since i wasnt 100% sure. took it to a mechanic who had it for about 3 weeks and couldnt figure out the problem either. he went over everything and had no luck until i told him to just change the dizzy..... and what do you know. runs fine now.... should have just done it in the first place. So it has a brand new dizzy in it and has been going strong for some months now.


until..... last week it stalled after i started it and would sometimes crank for a few seconds before coming to life. just tried to move it out of the driveway before and it stalled any time i would start to let the clutch out....

so is my new dizzy rooted? or engine temp sensor (car takes ages to come up to temp due to alloy radiator and a suspected lack of thermostat)? im not sure. cant check timing cos timing light is at my bros house.


HELP!

[scottx3]

ok its getting a code 15, running some tests on it now. i think it may be the ecu somehow killing the dizzy since the dizzy was replaced before we got the car aswell. either that or a fault in the wiring somewhere. i hate wires. lol

[scottx3]

tested good for continuity and voltage when i did the tests in the link below but gave a reading or 80% for duty% at an idle of 1250RPM so looks like ecu is fooked????

anyone got a D15B7 ecu i can buy or borrow for testing.???? i would post in the classified section but need a post quality point or something.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68096

[bossy_civic]

keyway in the crank wears out (popular in hondas)
u have to put an oversized keway in them.
I had similar issues, set the timing up start the car and the timing wud be out, beacuse of the keyway, youd start the car and itd jump a tooth

[bossy_civic]

does she have a pod on it?
sometimes a pod can make them like miss when its idling??

[scottx3]

keyway looked fine when i did the timing belt. and it does have a pod filter but never used to pop before. doesnt really pop any more.... just the stalling now.

[vinnY]

you probably have checked this but i guess it won't hurt to ask, how are the ignition leads? is the resistance within spec?

[beeza]

Main fuel relay?

Your car doesn't have a ICM - Ignition Control Module does it?


keyway in the crank wears out (popular in hondas)
u have to put an oversized keway in them.
I had similar issues, set the timing up start the car and the timing wud be out, beacuse of the keyway, youd start the car and itd jump a tooth

WOW,no way,this is the reason my timing was sooo out!!

Thank U!!

[scottx3]

just opened the dizzy and ran some tests from this link.

http://ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56224&highlight=main+fuel+relay


i have a spare ICM and coil (brand new ones from last time) that i was going to swap over but everything tested fine. i did notice though that some of the wires were loose on the terminals. just crimped them on a bit better and took it for a drive and it is running sweet now. The tacho also used to jump around 1-2k RPM when under load which has stopped now so hopefully its all good now!

still getting a code 15 from ECU though. how do i reset this?

[vinnY]

ignition output signal?

follow ecu-man's guide (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67113) to reset your ecu :)

[chowdaa]

my sisters new eg civic had that issue when it came to me, found this..
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n81/chowdaa/Picture010.jpg
exact same symptoms, stalling, more when it was hot, once load is applied my tacho would jump erratically, backfire on mid-high end gear changes, ended up limping home.
Man if you have the resources there i think just try fitting the icm and coil and see how it goes, wont hurt, testing resistance can't guarantee that its flawless.

[scottx3]

haha if only mine was that obvious. seems to be running sweet now with the wires crimped onto the ICM better.

cheers for the help guys.

[bossy_civic]

Main fuel relay?

Your car doesn't have a ICM - Ignition Control Module does it?



WOW,no way,this is the reason my timing was sooo out!!

Thank U!!

no worries dude. we re-did my timing three times until i took it to a mte who has a sweet crx and knows quite a thing or two bout hondas and that was the first thing he did :D glad to help

[beeza]

Ya learn something new,everyday! :)