Setup for my D series

[Jiztec]

So im after some help with boosting my 5sp D16Y5. Im aware its not the best honda engine but i dont wanna go do a swap like most people do. I wanna keep my D lol. just wantng to know wat a good setup woould be to have on my car. Dont want to be spending any more than $3k and im not after massive gains, just a little extra bite with that PPSSSSHH! :)

Ive read heaps of stuff and just wanna know whats true. for instance... changing my Y5 head to Y8, OBD1 conversion, compression ratioa and stuff like that

So as i said above...pretty much im after this. Boosting my D16Y5 with a budget of $3k looking for a little extra pull. Thankyou.

[Fo55il]

easypeazy!!!

have u sourced any parts yet?

theres a few in d 4sale thread.

3K easy as

[fat_85_civic]

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113285

[VTECnique]

Because the Y5 is already VTEC, A Y8 head will be a straight swap over. You only want to convert to OBD1 if you plan to run a chipped ecu, which you probably do cause your going forced induction. All you'd need then is an OBD2a/b > OBD1 conversion harness & a chipped P28 ecu with a basemap for your setup. This is a cheap way because alot of the US guys do it like this.

For your turbo, it all comes down to what you want. a fast spooling turbo or a turbo that comes on a little later in the rev range, i can suggest heaps of turbos for you, but i need to know what your preferences are.

& you can deff do this with 3k...

[lookingforboost]

look at the kit for sale here on ozhonda... bolt it on and away you go ;)

[Jiztec]

id love to buy that kit but i dont have the money atm lol
i plan on working my way slowly up to getting this setup done, but thanks for letting me know :) What does swapping my Y5 head to Y8 actually achieve? Thats what i dont get?

And no i havent got any parts yet as i wanna know exactly what is the right stuff TO get before i go and start buying parts. And as for my turbo i reackon maybe 3,500rpm? but i dont know much about that kinda stuff i wanna have a bit of revs left for the boost :P I was thinking of getting a turbo from a wreckers in good condition, but as i said before im not very knowledgeable and wouldnt know what kinda turbo to grab..

[redefine]

y5 is designed for economy
y8 is classic SOHC VTEC YO

extra power and stuffs

[Jiztec]

lol thats what i thort but didnt wanna say it incase i was wrong haha
anyone selling a Y8 head than?? and also theres a Garrett T28 Turbo off nissan, comes with actuator, stock nissan dump and oxy sensor for sale on here...would that be the go, ive read that cuz its from a nissan (most being RWD) that there will need to be some modifications made becuase of the way it faces or something along those lines?? anything to worry about..? cheers

[Fo55il]

i got a y8 head if u want its still on my fked up block

[Killa From Manila]

i wudnt bother doin a head swap, all d series engines r made 4 economy neway

[Jiztec]

but mine being VTEC E, swappping to the Y8 head wouldnt that give me a little more response? and if i plan on boosting it then wouldnt the Y8 head be better?

[VTECnique]

swap the Y8 head, i would say it flows a little better then the Y5, has a more aggressive lift compared to Y5..

Modifications to the turbo, in order for it to fit in your engine bay. You may be required to clock the turbo, which means your moving the compressor or turbine housing so the compressor outlet is facing downward, making intercooler piping easier to fit...

[myztery]

dont waste your money on doing a head swap just donk the turbo on whatever you got cos your only after a bit extra response, your not going to really notice vtec, because more than likely boost will dominate power.

[Lukezen27]

dont waste your money on doing a head swap just donk the turbo on whatever you got cos your only after a bit extra response, your not going to really notice vtec, because more than likely boost will dominate power.

Exactly!!

I keep telling people that but they don't listen.....

[Jiztec]

yeah but if i have the Y8 head on before the turbo then at least i wont be driving around VTEC E lol...get the Y8 head for NA while i wait for my turbo setup...

[Lukezen27]

yeah but if i have the Y8 head on before the turbo then at least i wont be driving around VTEC E lol...get the Y8 head for NA while i wait for my turbo setup...

NO!!

waste of time and money

My old setup boosted D16Y1 SOHC VTec

119kw VTec turned off
124kw VTec on

Driving round ya can't even feel the difference

[Fo55il]

serz?

im not sure about the on and off but u can deff tell a huge diff wen vtec engages + boost..

then again i havnt tried the vtec on or off thing

[Lukezen27]

serz?

im not sure about the on and off but u can deff tell a huge diff wen vtec engages + boost..

then again i havnt tried the vtec on or off thing

Its your imagination :p

[redefine]

swap the Y8 head, i would say it flows a little better then the Y5, has a more aggressive lift compared to Y5..


AND the y8 runs on 4 valves per cyl before vtec :p

[tekung89]

seriously? save ur money, that is all. doing a head swap on a sohc is like put a pod filter on, pointless and u wont feel any gain

[Limbo]

but i like my pod filter! LOL
just kidding

Yeah it virtually pointless. As ur SOHC vtec is only ignition i believe so most of it will get sorted by tuning

[FastFwd]

if you need a turbo im sellin a couple for cheep cheep.

[tekung89]

i say have a think about other ways of building ur car instead of making it a straight line warrior with a bolt on snail. maybe invest in a set of coilovers, rims and good tyres and call it a day. or infest urself with oem and jdm goodies to eventually rock around in baller status

[FastFwd]

i say have a think about other ways of building ur car instead of making it a straight line warrior with a bolt on snail. maybe invest in a set of coilovers, rims and good tyres and call it a day. or infest urself with oem and jdm goodies to eventually rock around in baller status

i think the guy just wants some more hp....

he might already have these mods

[Limbo]

invest in the B and you'll never look back at the D! LOL

[FastFwd]

invest in the B and you'll never look back at the D! LOL

tru that...

[VTECnique]

invest in the B and you'll never look back at the D! LOL

D's are cheap, reliable, plenty of upgrades, etc... Plus now i wouldnt even bother with a B & go straight for a K swap, but thats if i had the money, i wouldnt be wasting my time on a D, although there is one fella on HMT putting down 436whp with a D (http://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/f3/f7/99380-new-dyno-xenocron-tuned-monster-ripper.html), so there is potential in them...

[FastFwd]

he didnt say they didnt have potential dude...

hes just saying that since he went to his B he never looked back...so did alot of guys that went from d to b...

[Lukezen27]

D's are cheap, reliable, plenty of upgrades, etc... Plus now i wouldnt even bother with a B & go straight for a K swap, but thats if i had the money, i wouldnt be wasting my time on a D, although there is one fella on HMT putting down 436whp with a D (http://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/f3/f7/99380-new-dyno-xenocron-tuned-monster-ripper.html), so there is potential in them...


I nearly pissed myself when I saw this put together...

""reliable""
""436whp With a D""

Mate the D blocks pop or warp even with block guards with constant use… running those numbers.

You should find a 436whp D and following its life date to date.

Let us know and will we follow it as well

[VTECnique]

he didnt say they didnt have potential dude...

hes just saying that since he went to his B he never looked back...so did alot of guys that went from d to b...

he actually said invest in a b, i was pointing out D's can make power too, isnt that the reason why people upgrade to a B?!

[VTECnique]

I nearly pissed myself when I saw this put together...

""reliable""
""436whp With a D""

Mate the D blocks pop or warp even with block guards with constant use… running those numbers.

You should find a 436whp D and following its life date to date.

Let us know and will we follow it as well

If you read & watch the vid, he uses a race fuel mixture, on pump fuel he made abit under 400whp. & stock D sleeves are good for upto 400whp. "reliable" is all in the tune my friend. a tune for the street would have lower numbers, a tune for the dyno is to see how much it can take...

that 436whp with 24psi of boost, i agree with you running that constantly would result in failure, this guy probably only ran it that high for the 'big numbers'.

[Limbo]

i meant...

If you invest in a B you won't look back at a D, cos you'll gain alot more potential

[ZeForce]

Also, there is more aftermarket parts for the B series

[VTECnique]

Also, there is more aftermarket parts for the B series

Yes, abit more expensive aswell. You can build a D-series bottom end for less than $1000...

[Jiztec]

well how much would a B series swap (all costs included) be compared to boosting my D series. What difference in performance will there be between the 2 options/?

[Lukezen27]

well how much would a B series swap (all costs included) be compared to boosting my D series. What difference in performance will there be between the 2 options/?

I did mine for under 5k

I did all the work apart from the motor swap though and that saves heaps

Heres the difference

My turbo B on 8 PSI
http://www.scruffie.com/luke/car/151.3kw_nm.jpg

My turbo D on 10 PSI
http://www.scruffie.com/luke/car/119.4kw_nm.jpg

Note how fast the D falls out of the all important torque curve (Newton meter)

[Jiztec]

what i meant was keeping the B series NA with the comparison.
turbo D V NA B....

[Lukezen27]

what i meant was keeping the B series NA with the comparison.
turbo D V NA B....

lol they run about the same on the 1/4 mile funny enough..

D power brand sucks ass for real speed though they can be fast if your already roll'n

[Jiztec]

what about comparing the $$
boosting the D would be alot cheaper.??

[Lukezen27]

what about comparing the $$
boosting the D would be alot cheaper.??

I boosted my D for about $3500ish till she blew up

I boosted my B for about $5000

Some of the stuff swapped over to my new setup so its not a clear cut on the total costs

[Jiztec]

what was the cause though?

[Lukezen27]

what was the cause though?

Its a boost D :p

They all blow up in the end...

To much boost 11psi on stock internals but I've never been a girl hahah

con rod straight throw the block

[Jiztec]

dude why didnt you replace the rods?
ive read that theyre the weakest part of the D

[Lukezen27]

dude why didnt you replace the rods?
ive read that theyre the weakest part of the D

That's correct

BAH why bother...

On to bigger and better things

[Jiztec]

what were the specs with your D series turbo build?

[FastFwd]

dude why didnt you replace the rods?
ive read that theyre the weakest part of the D

it would have costed him $2500-3500 for the forged rebuild. For only a little extra he would have figured B series motor instead. Good choice i think aswell.

I went through similar decision. I blew my d series about 5 years ago, i was going to rebuild it but just decided to go B instead.

[Lukezen27]

what were the specs with your D series turbo build?

Stock D16Y1 with the GReddy Kit + bigger injectors and FMIC


it would have costed him $2500-3500 for the forged rebuild. For only a little extra he would have figured B series motor instead. Good choice i think aswell.

I went through similar decision. I blew my d series about 5 years ago, i was going to rebuild it but just decided to go B instead.

Exactly!!

Fun while it lasted but one blown move on :)

[Limbo]

yeah Ds were meant to be eco cars not performance cars.
Go the B's!

Ks are good but just abit pricey at the moment

[tekung89]

how much is it to replace a D $250 for the entire motor? LOLOLOL the cheapest one i saw was $150 for complete motor. if it blows, why replace the part, go get a new motor.

people fear having a D because it was never a performance motor in the first place and is heavily bagged out by fulley sick people. but for the price u pay for the jacked up price B's these days u seriously can have a forged, built, cumming machine D motor for even less. add more money for a turbo kit and u sir have spent enough money to buy a Bseries motor + swap. at this moment D>B budget for budget.

otherwise be cool and go K-series. den u can be maddest ozhonda member alive

[FastFwd]

ok so buying a running fully functional D after he blew the last one and $500 out of pocket:

He can chuck that back in his car, run it as an NA or turbo but then he will still need to do a rebuild for forged or else the same thing will hapen... If he pays for someone to do the rebuild its going to cost him 2500-3000 for the forged setup to make it run reliable or else the same thing will happen over and over. OR you can buy a b series pull more power out of it, not get board and be alot stronger, also having alot more oportunity to get more power in the future where you wont with the d as you will be stuck on a max 10psi getting 119kw where you can have a fully reliable car pushing 151kw without a hickup and have the ability to push alot more power out of it with more.

In the end 10psi on a d its bound to break sooner or later and you will be going through motors and tbh i couldnt be bothered. I've blown 4 all up. He could poor lots of money into a D and pull alot of power but he will be limited with the amount he can get out of it.

Once you have the B in you car you dont need to spend as much to get more power.

[tekung89]

lolololol

how much does a stock bseries engine cost?
how much does a dseries engine cost to forge
both will require a turbo kit

which will yield more power at the end for the same budget and be more reliable? i wonder. very curious to why bseries cost jack loads. something to do wit demand and supply i guess

VTEC YO

[FastFwd]

yer would be a good comparison.....

I seen a b16a sell the other day for $1500 including box. After sorting it all out it would cost yar around $3000...so lukenzen said $3500 for his.

Say $3200 all up NA b16a2 running in the car.

New d series engine would be 500-600 max then install $1000 all up.

Boosted D with stock internals extra 2500 for low psi turbo setup


B16a2 NA: $3200 (Reliable average power 110hp atw's giving the k's)
D16y5 NA: $1000 (Reliable average power 75hp atw's giving the k's)
D16y5 Boosted High Comp: $1000 + $2500 (Unreliable on 10psi with 158hp atw's)
B16a2 Boosted High Comp: $3000 + $2500 (Reliable on 8psi with 202hp atw's)
D16y5 Boosted Build Low Comp: $1000 + $3000(rebuild) + $4000(bigger turbo setup) (reliable on 20psi with 280hp atw's maybe less or more)
B16a2 Boosted Built Low Comp $3000 + 3000 + $4000(bigger Turbo Setup) (reliable on 20psi with 330hp atw's)

this is sorta all based on info from lukenzens dyno's and some of my costs ive incured in the past.

[Limbo]

Luke did 11PSI on a baby Greddy turbo

All this in the last 12mths or so

D to B

[VTECnique]

you can build a 300whp+ d-series bottom end for about $1000. i wouldnt be arguing this point if i knew a d-series built bottom end would cost 2.5k, id tell this bloke to do a b swap straight up.

stock D's can handle roughly around 220whp , thats 160kws!! for a daily driven civic coupe, thats plenty for me. hell, id even be happy with 120kw atws. for a safe leeway, i wouldnt go passed 190whp on a stock D.

There are people building d's for the simple fact that its alot cheaper compared to building a B. a boosted high comp D would be as reliable as a boosted hi comp b, its all in the tuning & tuning boosted high comps are a little trickier to low comps...

[Fo55il]

these bicthes always argue bout the same shit ....

[Lukezen27]

you can build a 300whp+ d-series bottom end for about $1000. i wouldnt be arguing this point if i knew a d-series built bottom end would cost 2.5k, id tell this bloke to do a b swap straight up.

stock D's can handle roughly around 220whp , thats 160kws!! for a daily driven civic coupe, thats plenty for me. hell, id even be happy with 120kw atws. for a safe leeway, i wouldnt go passed 190whp on a stock D.

There are people building d's for the simple fact that its alot cheaper compared to building a B. a boosted high comp D would be as reliable as a boosted hi comp b, its all in the tuning & tuning boosted high comps are a little trickier to low comps...

Stock D's can't handle 220whp fool

Don't write crap people might read and believe!!!!!!!

220whp is where the stock D con rods brake

[FastFwd]

Im actually not arguing this point im just puting mind to logic really...three of us here have gone from d to b because of similar reasons. I never boosted my D but i did blow it up lol.

But then again i have blow my B twice but they wernt my doing. Was bad Tuning and bad mechanics. Since i do all the work myself now its been great.

I just think to be honest and not bagging the D because if u can get more for less then i guess thats a good option but to me the B feels alot more solid. Power band is alot nicer and it has alot more torque. You have to push the D fairly hard to give it some good numbers and the more you push a more the more things can brake and most of us here use these cars as daily drivers so we dont need this happening.

[Fo55il]

bang for buck D is better . THE END

[Lukezen27]

bang for buck D is better . THE END

I don't think anyones arguing that point :p

[FastFwd]

bang for buck D is better . THE END

I think theres a few puns in there somewhere lol

[tekung89]

dseries turbo should be the new hybrids, so economical

[Jiztec]

Ok so i just purchased the T28 that Kerim had for sale...waiting for post atm.
so i have my turbo, now i need my manifold. My dad can weld so i could make one myself, or i was thinking of buying a greddy or edlebrock manifold - and getting a T3-T28 adaptor flange to fit the T28...

[FastFwd]

Ok so i just purchased the T28 that Kerim had for sale...waiting for post atm.
so i have my turbo, now i need my manifold. My dad can weld so i could make one myself, or i was thinking of buying a greddy or edlebrock manifold - and getting a T3-T28 adaptor flange to fit the T28...

Ok dont bother with your dad making one, im not saying hes bad but its just not worth the hassle trust me ive been there. Secondly you can go for a cast iron log manifold. If your looking to do it on the cheap this would be your best option + there strong. They wont get your the best power but they are the good for a starter turbo kit, you can always change it in the future. Or if your looking to spend a bit you may be able to find a second hand short ram manifold for 300-600 otherwise new your looking close to $1000 for a good one. Ok word of advice, do not what ever you do get a cheap stainless Bling one off ebay. They will cause you more grey hairs than an 110 year old man. They break, tear, leek, cause the turbo to snapp of the manifold or the waste gate, one of the two. Happened to me back in the day. lol

tbh go with the log cast iron manifold, u can find cheap oneso n here or ebay either way they will be solid as a rock and cheap cheap.

[VTECnique]

The greddy & edelbrock turbo manifolds have the T2 flange, so you dont need to buy/make an adaptor plate, the T28 will bolt straight up to those manifolds. Are you keeping your aircon at all? if you are, you'll need the edelbrock cast iron exhaust elbow to clear the a/c compressor. Im not sure whether the greddy exhaust elbow fits on the T28. If your not keeping aircon, you maybe able to use a dump pipe from an S13/14/15...

[Riced_Civic]

do cast iron its a safe bet it wont break and it will make a decent amount of power for a starter kit, + their cheap.

[90LAN]

just go for d series turbo if thats the type of set up you want and what you can afford
seems like you dont know much
so either way its going to cost you more than 3k imo
because of your lack of knowledge and do it your self skills are limited
its a trial and error process for you at this stage
seems like you just want the wank factor more than power etc
so you can open your hood and say i got turbo
just get a mild turbo set up going for now
i bet you will sell the car later anyway

[Jiztec]

when you say not worth the hassle FASTFWD what exactly do you mean.. do you mean the time...cuz time i wont be worrying about cuz it'll be dad doing it over a period of time..??

and on ebay there is a few cast iron log manifolds http://shop.ebay.com.au/items/__d16-cast-iron-manifold_W0QQLHQ5fAvailToZ15QQ_dmptZAUQ5fCarQ5fPar tsQ5fAccessories?_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177
it looks like the turbo ifts on top not down low, is that what im seeing here???

[FastFwd]

I've got a good mate who's a boiler maker and we marked up a design on cad. It was similar to the shitty stainless ramhorn manifold i bought of ebay. We welded it all up reinforced it and it looked great but 3-4 months later it just started to fall apart. It was good Stainless piping, and the welds looked good. i dunno it must of just been to much vibrations or something for the design.

I say just leave it to someone who has been making custom turbo manifolds for years. Its almost an artform. You might have to spend a bit the first time but if you get a really nice one made up. or get a fullrace manifold like i have you wont have to touch it forever. It will be so solid.

and yes those cheap cast iron mani's in the ebay link is exactly what your looking for. As i had mentioned before and others have said also. The cast iron mani's are great bang for buck. There solid, there cheap and they get the job done. Also as 90lan said and i agree with him, i think your more in it for the gizz factor of having a turbo. Your heart isnt set on getting more hp's its more about the noises and the wow factor. Dont take it to heart, im not trying to be a prick, im just behing honest cos i was once only in it for the wow factor back 4-5 years ago.

[Limbo]

lol fully agree.

Making manifolds is a very special technique to it all, otherwise ur gonna have alot of other issues on top of the turbo setup.

Fitment, strength, length all play a very crucial role

[Lukezen27]

My dads a boiler maker :thumbsup:

Helps alot

[Limbo]

helps but doesn't make him an expert on turbo manifolds

[lookingforboost]

ebay manifold :( dont touch them i have a photo somwhere of one if you want to see what happens when you use one!

if you going to make a custom manifold steam pipe is the way strong wont break and get it coated will last. not a big fan of the stainless ones as they tend to fail after awhile.

and yes you can use a S13/14/15 standard dump on the T28 there is no differnce in them from the 25/25g to the T28 right up the 71R

[Lukezen27]

helps but doesn't make him an expert on turbo manifolds

Mean good for general welding :p

[Limbo]

yeah i know but i had to make sure others knew what i meant, dun wan the nobbs to think its that simple

[FastFwd]

ahhaha its defiantly not.

[Jiztec]

yeah of course i want the jizz factor but i also want it to have some balls aswell, im looking at 120kw id be happy with. i want parts that wont break, i wanna do it right...no point having the jizz factor of a turbo and it falling apart in a month, or having commodores beat it...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AMK-CIVIC-CRX-D-SERIES-CAST-IRON-MANIFOLD-D15-D16_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a1Q7c66Q3a2Q7c 39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50 QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem3352d85ad5QQi temZ220433242837QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ 5fAccessories

the hole ontop of the manifold, what goes there? sorry for the extreme noob question >.<

[Fo55il]

mm r u planning on gettin that?
get a greddy one man

[Fo55il]

wastegate?

[Jiztec]

the wastegate. my turbo is a T28 and has internal wastegate so do i just cover that hole if i purchase a manifold like the one above.
So the greddy manifolds are good stuff?

[Fo55il]

yeah ull hafta block it.

greddy one is reliable, luke had it, i got it, some utha katz hea got it.

[Jiztec]

where can i get one from $$? and will it fit to my t28?

[Lukezen27]

where can i get one from $$? and will it fit to my t28?

Search for 92-95 Honda Civic GReddy Kit

they come out of that kit and fit the GT28 perfectly

[Fo55il]

mm browse the for sale
i thoguht i saw one

[Jiztec]

ok will do. so when people refer to the GT28 thats the same as the T28 yeah? :S

[ZeForce]

ok will do. so when people refer to the GT28 thats the same as the T28 yeah? :S

"GT" is garrett's new series of turbos, in terms of fitment they are the same

[VTECnique]

look for a used Greddy manifold. or, lately on ebay ive seen cast iron manifolds with T25/T28 flange. for manifolds with an external wastegate flange, all you need is a block off plate, which you can also find on ebay...

[Jiztec]

would i be better off keeping my T28 with internal wastegate and get a block plate, or could i make it exteranal??

[nd55]

> so when people refer to the GT28 thats the same as the T28

yes ... and no.

T28 refers to an older model of turbos by Garrett.
It's a hybrid consisting of a T3 compressor and T25 turbine.
The turbine flange dimensions from the T2 family of garret turbos.

GT28 refers to a newer, ball bearing design turbo, which is intended for similar capacity motors.

The better aerodynamics and ball bearing construction result in significantly better spool characteristics.

The GT2860 has a 60mm compressor wheel like the T28 & T3 and would do nicely.

The GT2876 is 76mm and significanty larger.

The older T28 is probably closer to the new GT25XX series or even a smallish GT2259, for D16 applications.

Nick.

[Limbo]

GT does not mean ballbearing. Its the 'r' on the end that means roller ballbearing, but your right the GT range is newer and supose to spool faster than the older T series
Some of the GT range also come out in bush bearing.

Running internal gate is cheaper & fine for smaller application.

External gates are better & more precise especially when more power is being applied but comes at a cost of being more expensive

[FastFwd]

GT does not mean ballbearing. Its the 'r' on the end that means roller ballbearing, but your right the GT range is newer and supose to spool faster than the older T series
Some of the GT range also come out in bush bearing.

Running internal gate is cheaper & fine for smaller application.

External gates are better & more precise especially when more power is being applied but comes at a cost of being more expensive


Nah hes right dude GT does mean its ball bearing in most cases. GT2860 is a gt28r. They are the same turbo, one is the HKS naming convension and one is the garrett/nissan naming. But Garrett also uses GT2860 on there site so it does get a little confusing. in the GT2840/50/60 and so on series they are usually all T or GT28's but on different model nissans. S15, s14, gtir N14, GTR turbo's.

its really had to explain down to a T because there are soo many names with so many numbers thrown everywhere. Different housing and different wheel conversions also make different GT28 series.

GT just really stands for the Newer series of dual ball bearing turbo's made by garrett.


the wastegate. my turbo is a T28 and has internal wastegate so do i just cover that hole if i purchase a manifold like the one above.
So the greddy manifolds are good stuff?

I'm sure if you purchase the manifold it will come with a block off adaptor plate, if not it looks like a generic 1.5inch 2 bolt exhaust flange which im sure any exhaust shop will have somethign to block it off with. Also i havent looked into the Greddy cast iron manifolds myself but i know that ive only ever once heard of a cast iron manifold breaking so im sure your going to be pretty safe with the ebay ones even if you wanna get them over the greddy. I know the Greddy ones are going to cost you around 300-400 where you can get the cast iron ebay ones for like $100 delivered. Thats just something to look into i guess if your on a tight budget...

maybe some of the guys on here have had some experience with both the ebay and the greddy cast iron ones and they might be able to tell you the up and downsides to both.

[Fo55il]

the only thing i can memba is that kat chuckin on kerims axs or sumthin kit n it needed sum heavy customising. wasa bitch to do.

[Jiztec]

Ok so far this is what i have in mind:
Garrett T28 turbo with internal wastegate.
GReddy turbo manifold/ebay cast iron turbo manifol.
OBD1conversion with chipped P28
Ebay intercooler and piping/Good used lot
BOV
RC Injectors and fuel pump.
Custom Exhaust system and dump pipe.
Upgraded rods - maybe eagle...
Good Tune for street.

What else is ther to be looking at so i can boost my D series engine?

[Fo55il]

Ok so far this is what i have in mind:
Garrett T28 turbo with internal wastegate.
GReddy turbo manifold/ebay cast iron turbo manifol.
OBD1conversion with chipped P28
Ebay intercooler and piping/Good used lot - DO NOT BUY A KIT !!!!!! get the cooler and get the piping custom, i hada huge issue wid piping not fitting. waste of money
BOV - cop attention
RC Injectors and fuel pump.
Custom Exhaust system and dump pipe.
Upgraded rods - maybe eagle...
Good Tune for street - i can recommend an awesome place to get a tune - ART in heidleberg

What else is ther to be looking at so i can boost my D series engine?

my 2c n exp

[FastFwd]

Dont worry about the upgraded roads for now. Focus on your turbo setup and your stock motor will be good for 8-10psi if tuned correctly. Upgrade on the rods can be a decision down the track. Upgrading roads atm is going to cost you alot

Turbo setup sounds great so far...you will have to look at water and oil lines. You can do a cheap setup and get some heavy duty sard High temp silicone tubing and some banjo bolt connections. Or you can get some custom braided setup. I believe Lukenzen bought a kit you can buy. I actually got all my braded stuff custom made myself but other options will work just as good.

you will need a boost gauge of some sort to monitor whats going on.

you will also need a decent boost controller. On the D series you dont want any spikes or else 10psi can turn to 11 and then motor finished...like what happened to luke.

If your planning to run the stock wastegate pressure what ever that is on the t28 you may not need a boost controller.

Cant think of anything else atm. if and when you get the oil and water lines i got pics i can show you how to set them up and where to plug those into the motor to get water and oil feed.

sorry also just remember your going to need to customise your Sump. The dump for the oil on the turbo needs to go into the side of the sump so you can either make a tap fitting with some industrial hose pluggings like on lukenzens build or you can get something custom welded into it like i did. Check pics on my build thread if you need to find out what i mean.

Sorry haha 1 more thing..your going to need an oil line feed reducer to 0.6-1mm. This will stop to much oil/oil pressure blowing the seals on the turbo. Honda motors have more oil pressure than Nissans so the nissan turbo needs the reducer.

Anything else just give me a shout.

[FastFwd]

Ok so far this is what i have in mind:
Garrett T28 turbo with internal wastegate.
GReddy turbo manifold/ebay cast iron turbo manifol.
OBD1conversion with chipped P28
Ebay intercooler and piping/Good used lot
BOV
RC Injectors and fuel pump.
Custom Exhaust system and dump pipe.
Upgraded rods - maybe eagle...
Good Tune for street.

What else is ther to be looking at so i can boost my D series engine?

Yep like Fo55il said. Dont go with the ebay piping. It wont fit at all, had a mate who had issues. The china intercoolers do the job fairly good tho, just get that and while your getting your exhaust setup made custom, get the guy to make 2.75 inch mandrel bent intercooler piping setup done at the same time.

BOV - as fo55il also said, not necessary. BOV's are good to keep the backforse pressure pushing back through the turbo (flutter noise) this isnt that great for turbo's over time. But at the PSI you will be running it wont cause that much issue. To be honest Flutter noise sounds better than BOV anyways and its legal.

[Jiztec]

WOW thats alot of information there lol i will do some reading up in my spare time
another thing ive been hearing from a few people locally is that i gunna have to lower my compression or something like that for the turbo ???

[FastFwd]

WOW thats alot of information there lol i will do some reading up in my spare time
another thing ive been hearing from a few people locally is that i gunna have to lower my compression or something like that for the turbo ???

there are a few ways of doing this. You might have to ask lukenzen or limbo to see what they did with there old D series turbo setups. Some keep the stock compression and run 8psi fine with it. The advantages of lowering the compression is that you will loose a little power on the stock motor but gain alot on being able to put more boost in the motor. I dont think the stock D series rods can handle over 11psi even if you lower the compression.

Lowering the compression can be done the proper way by buying new low comp pistons, they come in may different compression ratios to suit what setup you want. Mine are 9:1 my stock motor is 10.4:1 i believe. So this allows me to boost it quit a bit.

You can also lower you compression the make it do way by buying an extremely thick head gasket basically bringing the gap between the head and the block apart thus creating more air in the chamber between the piston and the top of the head = less compression. Im not to sure how much you loose on it but i wouldnt say it wouldnt be more than .5

Lowering your compression also causes less torque/power before boost comes on so streetablity slowely goes out the window. I dont find it to bad but some people have 8:1 comp ratio. That why alot of guys on here buy B series motors and keep the stock high comp ratio and boost it as much as they can on the stock setup. Thus giving them there stock NA power + boost.

I had it like that once apon a time ago and its much nicer to drive as a daily street car.

[Lukezen27]

WTF people

I got my piping off eBay US and never looked back..

Its now on its second boosted motor :thumbsup:

Nothing a dremil can't fix...

[FastFwd]

Yer i originally got my piping off ebay also. Whats good about the setup i got is the piping came complete all in stainless steel and i got it for really cheap. Under $100 delivered...

But that was 4 years ago or more and these days they only have that cheap alluminium crap that bends really easy.

With my piping setup tho it wasnt even close to fitting. But lucky i had some extra silicone grommets and a angle grinder. I had almost half of the piping in left overs from off custs in the end. Then i plugged it all up the way i wanted it and found to many leeks in the grommets so now i only have 4 of the silicone joins all up. 2 on the front mount, one on the intake and one on the turbo.

[Limbo]

alright guys have a look at this GT

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/catelog/Turbochargers/GT20/GT2052_727264_4.htm

Journal bearing

If it has an R then its ballbearing

look at the main garrett site
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/products/turbochargers.html

if you notice the GT2860 is available in journal bearing which is used in the GTRs

That's why some of them change to GT2860RS.

[Limbo]

A Guide To Garrett’s "GT" Model Numbers

GTxxyyzz:

Positions "xx" refers to the frame size of the turbine wheel inducer.
For example the "GT28" in "GT2860RS" refers to its turbine wheel frame size family. All GT28 units use a turbine wheel with 53.85mm inducer diameter
As a rule of thumb, the larger the number, the larger the turbine wheel.
Positions "yy" designate the compressor wheel exducer (major) diameter in millimeters
The "60" in the GT2860RS example above has a 60mm compressor wheel exducer diameter.
Note: Wheel sizes 100mm and over omit the "1" (hundreds digit)
Example: the 02 in a GT4202 refers to its 102mm compressor wheel exducer diameter
Positions "zz" may be used to designate special features of a particular turbocharger where applicable
Example: GT2860RS
"R" = this is a Ball Bearing unit
"S" = used for units which require some differentiation from units in the same family
Compare a GT2860R to a GT2860RS. While both are ball bearing and externally similar, the GT2860RS is better suited for higher-flow applications than the GT2860R. In this case, the S reflects the higher-flowing nature of the GT2860RS


straight from garrett
http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/gt_basics.html

[Jiztec]

ahk well how much are a set of good low comp pistons and what ratio would i run or is it not worth doing this and keeping it stock and running 8Psi...?

[FastFwd]

ahk well how much are a set of good low comp pistons and what ratio would i run or is it not worth doing this and keeping it stock and running 8Psi...?

as i said before...doing the rods means a rebuild, so does the pistons. it will cost alot if your not doing it yourself. If your doing it yourself you could do rod's, pistons, bearings, rings, full gasket/seal rebuilt kit, new oil and water pump, your looking at $1700 if you do the work yourself.

Trust me its not worth it. your going to get more than enough with it running 8psi on high comp setup. When you crack your motor apart its never the same again. Leave the engine oem and just push it as much as you can safely.

[Jiztec]

Ahk so just keep most things stock and get it tuned well so it can run safely.
Because the T28 from Kerim is 2nd hand should i take it to a shop and get it looked at ?
it needs to be clocked also but ive read its not hard to do and i could do it myself..

[FastFwd]

Nah if kerim's legit...dont know him to much myself but others might. Its should be ok. You can feel shalf play with your hand. if you turn or try to rock the turbine with your hand you should be able to feel shaft play...it will wobble around.

Otherwise if it spins freely it should be all good.

Clocking is piss. loosen 4-6 13mm bolts holding the compressor housing on and just turn the thing around to the position you want to setup your intercooler piping to connect to it.

[Limbo]

just loosen the bolts do not take them out otherwise you may damage the fins if u don't know what to do

[Limbo]

P.S i never had a turbo D but i helps with builds of some.
Most just do a stock engine with turbo. If your new, i'd only run about 8PSI which will net you about 109kwatw.

a good turbo for the D is a GT28R or a GT28 both can be had from s13-s15 turbos.
Usually can be had for about $500, new is like $1300.

I helped with a build with a D16y4 and it ran well with a GT28R

Things to check for, fins with no damage, & zero shaft play (.5mm movement is normal even on a new turbo)

[FastFwd]

P.S i never had a turbo D but i helps with builds of some.
Most just do a stock engine with turbo. If your new, i'd only run about 8PSI which will net you about 109kwatw.

a good turbo for the D is a GT28R or a GT28 both can be had from s13-s15 turbos.
Usually can be had for about $500, new is like $1300.

I helped with a build with a D16y4 and it ran well with a GT28R

Things to check for, fins with no damage, & zero shaft play (.5mm movement is normal even on a new turbo)

ahhh i thought u had a D...prolly thinkin of someone else...

Yeh the GT28r's are good they been selling for aroud $700 but my bloody one wont sell cos of the welded internal gate..soo annoying.

[Limbo]

that's an easy fix you can get a dead t28 and replace the rear housing


ahhh i thought u had a D...prolly thinkin of someone else...

Yeh the GT28r's are good they been selling for aroud $700 but my bloody one wont sell cos of the welded internal gate..soo annoying.

[FastFwd]

that's an easy fix you can get a dead t28 and replace the rear housing

Hmmm yeh i thought about that but didnt know if it was too much effort. Rather just get rid of it for $500 at this point...i might put a wanted "dead t28" thread up just for an option.

Would be a good option for jiztec cos he already has the t28.

[Limbo]

yeah check out ebay sometimes dead turbos can be had for $50-$100
Or even the nissiansilivia site

exhaust housing is even easier than the compressor side

[Jiztec]

Sorry but what would be a good option for me? :S

[Jiztec]

So 109kw at wheels approx for my setup?? :S

Whats the potential of tthe T28 in my D series. say for instance down the track i want more kw, which im sure i will, what is a realistic goal and would it be hard to achieve - like what parts and stuff?
thanks..

[Lukezen27]

So 109kw at wheels approx for my setup?? :S

Whats the potential of tthe T28 in my D series. say for instance down the track i want more kw, which im sure i will, what is a realistic goal and would it be hard to achieve - like what parts and stuff?
thanks..

Read my old build thread :thumbsup:

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79182

[Jiztec]

wow that was a long read. i read ALL of it lol.
120kw daily would be good.
electronic boost controller and 2.5inch system with RC iinjectors and fuel pump would be good choices yeah.
just a matter of time...

[Lukezen27]

wow that was a long read. i read ALL of it lol.
120kw daily would be good.
electronic boost controller and 2.5inch system with RC iinjectors and fuel pump would be good choices yeah.
just a matter of time...

Yup

Char

[Limbo]

if you wanna make 120kws well i'd go for a GT28r not just a T28 bush

[MikeyG]

u wanan make serious gains?? peakboost kit fuk greddy they are crap..

do internals push 12-15psi daily tuned!!

[Jiztec]

i can always change over the turbo if the T28 is not satisfying cant i...just for my first turbo i'll be happy with the T28 and alot more than stock gains.. better turbo after first setup gets old and boring lol

[Riced_Civic]

u wanan make serious gains?? peakboost kit fuk greddy they are crap..

do internals push 12-15psi daily tuned!!

like mikeyG says go peak boost. i did and im happy. still need to get tuned next week to gain a few more.

[Fo55il]

wats d main diff between greddy n peak?

wouldnt it just matter on the motor tho?

apart from a faster spool depending on d turbo

[Jiztec]

im not getting a greddy kit anyways im piecing together my own

[Fo55il]

that question was for my curiosity lol. HIJACK

[Jiztec]

anyone know much about these manifolds???
http://www.justjap.com/store/product.php?productid=16646
anything helps...

[Limbo]

looks like a standard cat iron one. doesn't look too bad, jsut be carful it fits a/c & p/s if you still want those thing

[A.C.S DRAG]

i had one of those, it cracked after about a year.

[Lukezen27]

i had one of those, it cracked after about a year.

You cracked a cast iron manifold?

Impressive :p

[Fo55il]

400psi

[tekung89]

run 500psi den start braggin

[FastFwd]

You cracked a cast iron manifold?

Impressive :p

Lol ns hey.

[Limbo]

i've only seen cast iron crack where there are fractures in the cast.
A good cast will almost never crack unless it is heated really hot and hit water or something semi cold

[Jiztec]

am i able to run a stock turbo manifold say off a GTiR or a Silvia so on...???

[Lukezen27]

am i able to run a stock turbo manifold say off a GTiR or a Silvia so on...???

No

Char

[VTECnique]

no, you need a turbo manifold specifically for a D16.

[lookingforboost]

i was at just jap yesterday and saw the cast iron manifold there it looks good and if i didnt have a manifold i would just run with that :)

[VTECnique]

the D-series cast iron manifolds are fine, will do the job fine for an internally stock engine. hell, ive even seen em on 300whp D's...

[A.C.S DRAG]

yep, and after a year of my hi boost setup, it cracked.

[Jiztec]

Hi boost. what was the psi?
i dont plan on running anything above 10

[FastFwd]

Ohh well if thats the case dont do a forged setup then....stick with a high comp stock internal setup.

[VTECnique]

Hi boost. what was the psi?
i dont plan on running anything above 10

you cant go past 10psi anyway, stock MAP sensor only goes upto 10psi...
I also suggest you stay under 10, maybe 8 would be more suitable...

[Limbo]

luke ran 11PSI with stock map sensor.

I think the stock map sensor is limited to 1 Bar, which is about 12 or 14 PSI i can't rem.

The reason u've come up with 10PSI is cos most people limited it to 10psi to ensure that it is reliable and without issue

[Lukezen27]

luke ran 11PSI with stock map sensor.

I think the stock map sensor is limited to 1 Bar, which is about 12 or 14 PSI i can't rem.

The reason u've come up with 10PSI is cos most people limited it to 10psi to ensure that it is reliable and without issue

Na the E-manage has map clamping

Once the map clamp is turned on the stock map dose not see any boost at all so you can run whatever you like..

Which also means the E-manage boost cut-off dose not work and why my setup blew up

[VTECnique]

Na the E-manage has map clamping

Once the map clamp is turned on the stock map dose not see any boost at all so you can run whatever you like..

Which also means the E-manage boost cut-off dose not work and why my setup blew up

Would a missing link do the same thing though??

[VTECnique]

luke ran 11PSI with stock map sensor.

I think the stock map sensor is limited to 1 Bar, which is about 12 or 14 PSI i can't rem.

The reason u've come up with 10PSI is cos most people limited it to 10psi to ensure that it is reliable and without issue

85-91 MAP stops responding after 9.25 psi, 92+ after 10.65 psi. Taken from HT...

1 bar = 14.5psi...

[Lukezen27]

Would a missing link do the same thing though??

What's a missing link?

Mod to allow the map to handle boost?

[FastFwd]

Does the Power FC come with an apexi map sensor?

I didnt install my ECU, and ive never really looked at my map sensor properly.

that might be why im leaning out after 10psi? or is this just the D series were talking abot

[Lukezen27]

Does the Power FC come with an apexi map sensor?

I didnt install my ECU, and ive never really looked at my map sensor properly.

that might be why im leaning out after 10psi? or is this just the D series were talking abot

Yeah same for D & B man

But you get a warning light if the map see's to much boost

[Limbo]

nah PFC does not come with map sensor, its optional

[FastFwd]

Ok but if i still have my map sensor plugged in, its possible its activated on my Power FC correct?

[VTECnique]

What's a missing link?

Mod to allow the map to handle boost?

A missing link is used so the ECU doesnt see boost. So that means if the ECU doesnt see boost, neither does the MAP (i think).



that might be why im leaning out after 10psi? or is this just the D series were talking abot

IMO just buy a 2.5 bar MAP sensor...

[FastFwd]

A missing link is used so the ECU doesnt see boost. So that means if the ECU doesnt see boost, neither does the MAP (i think).



IMO just buy a 2.5 bar MAP sensor...

Yer? you can buy those?

where from? and are they generic item to be customized to fit into your throttlebody? or will they fit in the stock honda mounts?

[VTECnique]

Yer? you can buy those?

where from? and are they generic item to be customized to fit into your throttlebody? or will they fit in the stock honda mounts?

Xenocron (http://www.xenocron.com/) for the 2.5 bar MAP sensor, & i believe it fits in the stock MAP sensor case aswell...

[Limbo]

the PFC uses ur stock map to read boost

[Jiztec]

Okay so im gunna get a chipped P28 ecu and OBD2-OBD1 conversion harness from XENOCRON. its like $300 without shipping.. what else do i need in regards to my fuel management. Chrome, neptune??? are they the programs that run it?

[FastFwd]

the PFC uses ur stock map to read boost

Yeh but doesnt it only read 10psi?

[VTECnique]

Okay so im gunna get a chipped P28 ecu and OBD2-OBD1 conversion harness from XENOCRON. its like $300 without shipping.. what else do i need in regards to my fuel management. Chrome, neptune??? are they the programs that run it?

When you go to order the chipped ecu, because your also getting basemaps, you have to describe the motor setup, also which program to use. I would opt for neptune cause i know a few tuners in australia use it.


Yeh but doesnt it only read 10psi?

For now i would go down to 9psi til you can get a new map sensor. & if the PFC uses the stock MAP, the stock MAP is still seeing boost. unless you can fit something like luke suggested so the MAP doesnt see boost...

[Limbo]

i always thought it was 1 bar


Yeh but doesnt it only read 10psi?

[VTECnique]

well correct me if im wrong, but arent the honda MAP sensors 1 bar? just because the MAP is 1bar, doesnt mean it can hold 1 bar of boost. a 2.5bar holds about 25psi...

[Limbo]

nah 1 bar is 14.7PSi apparently

[FastFwd]

I made my own thread about this so i stopped hijacking this thread but for people who are confused CRXer summed this up well.


MAP is manifold "absolute" pressure,meaning read from perfect vaccuum=0psi

atmospheric is already 14.7 psi of your map sensor=1bar

14.7psi boost=atmo + 14.7=2 bar
29.4psi boost=atmo + 29.4=3 bar

u can get a 2.5bar,but thats not leaving u much headroom ontop of 20psi,so id just get the next size,but thats up to u.

[Jiztec]

im only gunna be running 10psi max for starters so i'll keep the stock MAP sensor. A question on the downpipes on ebay for the D16 civics, are they really bad quality stuff or would it be sufficient for my build? Would i be better off getting one made..

[VTECnique]

they may be a hit or miss, you never know until you fit the product/item. try it & if it doesnt happen, just get one made up...

[FastFwd]

im only gunna be running 10psi max for starters so i'll keep the stock MAP sensor. A question on the downpipes on ebay for the D16 civics, are they really bad quality stuff or would it be sufficient for my build? Would i be better off getting one made..

tbh i think you should just get your local exhaust shop to set that up...will cost 50-100 more but it will come with warranty and it wont break.

[A-man]

has anyone ran 12:1 cr d16s with stock ecu??

ive got this setup atm and im nearly ready to run but i need to find out if the stock ecu will b ok

[fat_85_civic]

has anyone ran 12:1 cr d16s with stock ecu??

Ive got this setup atm and im nearly ready to run but i need to find out if the stock ecu will b ok

wtf?.

[Lukezen27]

wtf?.

I think that's why no one has answered him... :p

""nearly ready to run"" to the junk yard

[MikeyG]

has anyone ran 12:1 cr d16s with stock ecu??

ive got this setup atm and im nearly ready to run but i need to find out if the stock ecu will b ok
i heard your stock ecu is better then hondata dude so go for it. just buy another engine when your start your current engine

[ZeForce]

It should be fine to start it up and let it idle, I wouldnt go driving it around though

[A-man]

i bought the engine already in the car as an unfinished project

the car has a built bottom end and stock head etc.
its got 12:1 ycp pistons in it
i need to run the car in


however i dont have any aftermarket management so what im asking is before i go driving around i wanted to see what others have done. if they have been in this situation before

[VTECnique]

ok, stock ecu only works well with stock or near stock compression. your like 2 nearly 3 points up in compression, the stock ecu just aint going to cut it. Proper engine management & tuning is crucial for such a high compression setup.

Also, another thing dont thread jack mate, if you want a question to be answered, which isnt even turbo/FI related, start your own thread...

[A-man]

i couldnt find anything relevent in the all motor section plus alot of what i was reading in there seemed to be bs

i didnt mean to jack

thanks for the help

[Limbo]

if i were you i'd go hondata, u don't know how the stock ECU is gonna react so best to get it tuned for the motor.

[A-man]

ive got crome ill just chip another ecu

[R_RaTeD]

i've got a Y1 head ... but i needa check if its in working order ...
let me know if ur interested ...

[Jiztec]

What size intercoolers fit behind the EK Front bar without modifactions?
ANY>>?

[Lukezen27]

What size intercoolers fit behind the EK Front bar without modifactions?
ANY>>?

PM Limbo (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/member.php?u=2672)

He should know as he got one

[Limbo]

i can't rem how big my core is, will measure it when i get a chance to take the front bar out.

You want at least 60mm thickness with 2.5" inlet & outlet

[Jiztec]

okay thanks..im looking at one going for $100 measures 450X300X76... should be fine yeh.?

[Jiztec]

Bump!?

[Limbo]

650x450x75 intercooler is the largest u can fit

[Jiztec]

okay thanks limbo (Y)
another question for you guys also.. i've sourced an OBD2 - OBD1 conversion harness, so all i need now for the ecu is the Chipped P28. Now with that (planning on going through XENOCRON) do i go the chipped p28 with basemap and tune it with chrome, or do i go the chipped P28 with basemap and buy the hondata S100 and run that (http://www.xenocron.com/s100-p-257.html) or do i pay like an extra $500 or so and get the hondata S300 boost tuning package (http://www.xenocron.com/hondata-s300-boost-tuning-package-p-285.html)

any advice will be taken on board.

[lookingforboost]

Want D16 engine loom running with a stinger ecu and tune for bolt on kit i am selling my setup :)

[FastFwd]

Jiztec, just as an option have you thought of buying this?

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116112

Ek Turbo D series Sedan for $6000.

just a thought that might have you time, money and hassles.

[Jiztec]

hey thanks FastFwd i saw that the other day and thought about it but i like the look of my car better and i want to be able to say that i built my own car... and this way im learning a hell of a lot of info... If i had seen that before i got my car now i would have definately jumped at it.

Lookingforboost - ahk how much you looking at selling it for and how do i go about running it on my setup? PM me ;D

[lookingforboost]

What setup have you got atm? and you just need to plug it in ist the whole eninge harness :)

PM me dude

[Jiztec]

BUMP! Much difference running Hondata S100 compared to S300 for my setup?

[Lukezen27]

BUMP! Much difference running Hondata S100 compared to S300 for my setup?

Massive diff

I'm running S100B no USB no data logging no quick map swap and so on.

But they turn exactly the same so if your on a tight budget like me its fine

If you can afford it go the S300

[Jiztec]

okay thanks im thinking i might save a little extra and go with the S300 (Y)

[VTECnique]

Just go with the S100 bud...

[Limbo]

yeah stay away from chrome, no support as most tuners do not use it.
Hondata s300 is the go if you have the $$$$
Otherwise only other one i would recommend is PFC

[VTECnique]

someone in australia should consider tuning with crome, ectune, uberdata, turboedit, etc...

[A-man]

i run crome on my b18

and its great bang for buck i have 4 cars and 2 of which need management for various reasons soon to b 3 of them and ill be using crome with them all...

only problems i have had has been from a dodgey datalogger which was replaced no questions asked from moates

its not always about labels and brands... the software works and its a good option same with the other avalible ecus, neptune etc.

[VTECnique]

Does crome get easier to use once you get used to it?

[Limbo]

if your new to tuning, then i'd recommend not to go chrome. It runs everything fine, pretty much like most ECU systems, but you'll need to get the datalogger stuff to tune it and not many tuners will tune it.

End of the day if your new to stuff you don't want something that is gonna give you a headache trying to tune. It will not save you more money

[A-man]

i disagree if ur prepared to read and try what your doing...

i learnt alot from crome and me and a friend tuned my car (street tune) on crome
the surport is there from the us guys and besides setting up the datalogger ive had no problems what so ever...

i dont agree with people when they say aw just get a powerfc or just get a motec etc. because alot of people (namely me) dont have the money to spend on motec or in my case power fc isnt avalible for my engine.

for value for money its cheap and is as user friendly as say the new wolf system.


alot of people in the west only like to tune with v/afc, pfc, etc. and if u ask for a unknown ecu. they turn and dont wana know. its not that scary

this goes for ALL management like neptune etc.

and the us guys are using it so what makes them different to u... there not better, there not smarter, there no different to us....

[lookingforboost]

But what Limbo is saying is that most tuners wont tune it or want to know and my become a headache not at all dising the ecu

As most ppl cant road tune there car by them selfs then it may become a problem trying to get a tuner to get them to tune it as they would rather use what they are familar with and dont want to experiment and have a customers car blow up as this would reflect on the tuner and at the end of the day word of mouth can really hurt a tuners business, but i completely understand your point :)

[A-man]

yeh i understand both points

and i hate that track of people keeping mainstream... but i guess its just the way of the world...

its also a shame i see it all the time where im forced for example to give an unfinished car back to a person when i work 24hrs on a weekend after i do an engine swap and im not happy because people dont realise whats involved

if someone like myself is happy to work through it with a tuner and see the probs first hand and understand u dont mind helping out. its when u get some guy who just throws money at a problem to fix it and doesnt understand, is when u need to be mainstream i see both storys and ive been on both sides

[Lukezen27]

Plus Hondata S100 is only like $350 when you supply the ECU

Why would you bother with anything else

[VTECnique]

Plus Hondata S100 is only like $350 when you supply the ECU

Why would you bother with anything else

Because a chipped OBD1 ecu is like $250, ecu, chip & 2 basemaps.

Here's my theory. Global economy has hit an all time low. crome (not chrome) is a free tuning program. If tuners would aim more at lower budget customers, they would get more business.

I know alot of us tuners use crome. Not 1 tuner (correct me if wrong) in australia have i heard tunes with crome. Neptune, yeah but only neptune RTP...

A perfect example would be me. Since no one tunes crome, DIY tuning cost too much, im forced to use an AFC cause its cheap. If i knew a crome tuner in QLD, i would deff scrap the AFC & use a chipped OBD1 ecu...

[A-man]

exactly im trying to get one of the local shops here to do it and hes quite keen.. we have 2 cars that i know of with crome and im lookin at running the 2nd possibly 3 ecus off it

[lookingforboost]

both good points i reckon :) but if things will ever change is a different story :(

[A-man]

the only people who can change it is the demand...
and to get more demand we need to c modifiers/enthusiats (like ourselves) surport the products instead burn them like ebay knock offs...

[Limbo]

Just rem that end of the day, Crome, Neptune & hondata all use a factory ECU and adjust its maps.

Hondata has alot more tuner support & the tuners can sell it, that's wat it comes down to.

But for this thread with a person who is new to all this, it is not cheaper to go down the less trodden path.
If you have a better understanding of cars, and have access to someone who can tune or help with it, you'd most likely have taken their advice rather than some internet mechanic.

I've had quite a few tuned cars, and they can be real headaches when you cannot get them working properly. I even ended up selling one cos the ECU tune on it was so crap i hated the car. SOmeone else brought it off me and got it retuned, and had no issues with it at all. My loss. I've seen this happen alot of times. (my age is now showing ;p)

If you new to the scene, get what you want built and run a common ECU that you can readily get support. More enjoyment for you.

A-man - i don't dis the ECU, but you have someone to help you with support. Most average guys out there don't have your connections so its not so easy for them. Each to their own.

[A-man]

yeh and everyone is different.

im not phased what anyone says about diff ecus because there is always going to be a hater. and its not my product so i dont really care but it works for me and im now seeing the benefits of keeping at it.

i think its a little diff being in WA then u guys but we are really backwards considering.

[lookingforboost]

most tuners around my area, first thing pull out the ecu and do a full after market setup but each to there own.

i picked my ecu even though there wasnt many tuners here that used it or sold it but it dose everything i want it to do :)