Dead gear

[F20C]

Anyone ever had a gear that just completely shat itself and ended up getting it fixed/replaced box? 01' S2000 btw. Wondering how much you paid, i know it wont be the same but ill get a rough idea. Cause other things could be wrong rah rah. I really dont want my 2nd gear to go anytime soon :(

[ludecrs]

Can pick up 2nd hand boxes for as cheap as $800 these days anyway.

[JAP-S2K]

2nd gear and synchro is approx $700 from Honda, last time i checked. I actually know of a set for sale.

[F20C]

$700 including installation? Yeah im looking at a whole new box actually.. Kinda got a gear gone also..

[vyets]

If your syncro is damaged most likley the gear could be damaged as well. I found out the hard way :( Luckily not with this car. I would also advise you to either replace the whole box or rebuild the whole box. Don't just fix one gear
$700 sounds about right. I very HIGHLY doubt that includes installation Honda would easily charge $2000 to install something like this.

[JAP-S2K]

No that's parts alone.

As in brand new? There very expensive, your better off getting yours rebuilt if your've lunched a gear. Expect little change from $3000 for a rebuilt box, depending on how much damage is done, if you continue to drive it you'll also be doing more damage. If your looking for an easy way out, maybe source a second hand box.

[ludecrs]

If your looking for an easy way out, maybe source a second hand box.


Can pick up 2nd hand boxes for as cheap as $800 these days anyway.

:thumbsup:

[jaeyon]

how hard are ap2 boxes to find in aus? are they straight bolt ons to an ap1? any ideas on the going rate for one?

[ludecrs]

i would imagine straigth bolt on, bu I think you'd be pretty hard up finding an AP2 box in AU.

I only know of 2 off the top of my head, smashed AP2 S2000's ; and 1 was repaired.

[F20C]

maybe it would be cheaper sourcing out the ap2 synchros, synchro sleeves and what not? and just upgrading your ap1 box?

[vyets]

You could do that, but if your gears are damaged too then you're going to have to buy the gears as well :) Gears are quite expensive depending on what gear it is

[jaeyon]

yup, also the ap2 has shorter gearing 1-4, which would go nicely with my new 4.44FD's lol

[F20C]

nice jae when did you get the 4.44's in? and its my 5th vyets.. i might look into doing that when i get a job -.- just upgrading everything.

[jaeyon]

ah theyre actually not in the car yet. but they should be here soon! will post up a review when theyre in

[F20C]

sweet :D

[WhiteAP1]

F20C what exactly are you experiencing? Is 5th gear locked out, does it go into gear and pop out or does it just crunch?

[F20C]

its like theres a wall there.. it doesnt crunch in, it doesnt go in to even slip out.. I dont know what it is.. i assumed its a bent shift fork?

[JAP-S2K]

Then there's nothing wrong with your gearset. If it's a bent or damaged shift fork you might get let off lightly and it may not cost you as much as you think.

[WhiteAP1]

So what your saying is that your locked out of 5th gear.

Its actually a common problem usually due to a high rev miss shift on a lower gear, although lock out usually occurs to 6th gear.

Its actually an easy fix, jump on the freeway and easily yet firmly shift from 4th into 5th until it slips in again.

Jump on s2ki.com and search missing gear or 6th gear lock out. You'll find a shit load of threads.

Read up and if you've got the same issues you've just saved about $1500 bucks.


*EDIT* just found this on s2ki.com :


Fifth and sixth share a collar that can get slightly mangled, usually from a failed high rpm shift to third that missed the gate and caught fifth gear.

What has worked for a number of owners is to be persistent using pressure to force engagement of fifth. This is while you are driving as you want a warm box and proper rpm to allow engagement. On my car it took many tries over a two day period and quite a bit of pressure.

Once you get fifth you will also be able to get sixth but engagement will be very rough. Shift repeatedly into fifth and sixth to smooth the rough spots on the collar.

I suggest you change the transmission oil after you get it working to drain and residue that is not picked up by the magnet.

Same thing happened to me only with 6th gear. Took about 5 minutes to get it back in.

[F20C]

wow, i dont understand what the "proper rpm" consists of.. I have 9000 revs to play with :P lol but yeah nah it doesnt go in at all? so do i force it in? or..? ill check up s2ki and wait for a reply just incase i dont find it cause im blind according to jaeyon haha :P

[WhiteAP1]

wow, i dont understand what the "proper rpm" consists of.. I have 9000 revs to play with

:confused:

What you've most likley done is miss shifted at a high rpm ie: threw the shifter but missed the gear.

So now it might be worth a try to work it back in.

[F20C]

so do i gently try pushing it in while shifting from 1st - 2nd - 3rd - 4th - FIFTH? - 6th?
High or low rpm? your in melb wanna do it for me? rofl :P Like i've tried shifting into it before but its just a wall.. i dont know ill try tomorrow if i go for a drive..

[jaeyon]

so do i gently try pushing it in while shifting from 1st - 2nd - 3rd - 4th - FIFTH? - 6th?
High or low rpm? your in melb wanna do it for me? rofl :P Like i've tried shifting into it before but its just a wall.. i dont know ill try tomorrow if i go for a drive..

lol i think thats what he means. low rpm/normal driving, which for me is usually ~3000rpm.

just try forcing it in with constant pressure (not like slamming it in), and keep doing it until the motion is smooth again. so go 4th-5th-6th-5th-4th and so on id imagine (just going off what was posted on s2ki)

[F20C]

i see but if i force it in wont it destroy something else? synchro maybe? or maybe another gear synchro? and yeah normal granny driving is 2.5-3k for me also

[jaeyon]

ah i meant like ease it in with a bit of force, so maybe when your in 4th and its at the right speed to change into fifth just hold 5th gear against the gate (assuming it wont go in) and then increase pressure on it to make it go in.

im assuming by the post above that some grinding is going to occur anyway

[F20C]

ok ill try it but i wont force it in too hard kinda scared lol :P

[WhiteAP1]

Get to 4th gear (any way you want) and try changing into 5th. Do it at a reasonable rpm as if you were driving normally. Obviously it wont go in first go, so go back and foward between 4th and 5th, pushing the shifter into 5th a little harder each time. Be smooth but firm and eventually it should just slip back in. There shouldnt be any grinding or crunching noise, however it will feel a little rough.

[F20C]

i see, and im assuming i should eventually take it in to get fixed yeah?

[WhiteAP1]

No its a simple DIY fix.

Happened to my 6th gear when i first got the car in 2004. After a number of mods and track days is going strong!

If you read up on it you'll realise what you've done and how common it is.

[JAP-S2K]

Guys this doesn't sound right. For a shift fork to be bent so badly you can't select gears, isn't due to how high the rpm's were, it's how much force was applied to the gear change. A bent shift fork doesn't come good, i never heard of such a thing. Unless the shift forks are very soft, which i doubt it. Best you take it to a gearbox specialist and ask them.

[F20C]

yeah ima try what whiteap1 said but not force it in, i dont know if its a bent shift fork i was assuming it was. lol. No one has really looked inside the box.. and its not hard selecting gears its just that one..

[WhiteAP1]

A bent shift fork doesn't come good, i never heard of such a thing. Unless the shift forks are very soft, which i doubt it. Best you take it to a gearbox specialist and ask them.

I totally agree , but the problem isnt a bent shift fork, its a synchro issue. It happens because fifth and sixth share a collar that can get slightly mangled usually due to a failed high rpm shift to third that missed the gate and caught fifth gear. It can also happen because of gear skipping. As ive said about 1000 times during this thread, search s2ki.com for locked out gears, You'll see how common it is and how many ppl have had the same issue. One of them being myself.

But if F20C wants to waste thousands on a problem he can fix himself, thats up to him.

[F20C]

i tried today on the freeway in 4th doing about 80-100km/h. i was trying to cram it into 5th but not forcing it in. So i dont screw something up.. still wouldnt go in though? and i had the same pressure on it for about 200mtrs.

[WhiteAP1]

i tried today on the freeway in 4th doing about 80-100km/h. i was trying to cram it into 5th but not forcing it in. So i dont screw something up.. still wouldnt go in though? and i had the same pressure on it for about 200mtrs.

Doesnt sound like your doing it right.

You need to keep going back between 4th and 5th slightly forcing it a little more and more each time. You need to apply pressure otherwise its not gonna slip back in. Holding it is not going to work.

So there's a few things you can do now.

Listen to my instructions, don't be worried about applying a little pressure and with slow smooth shifts force it back in.

If for some reason my instructions are hard to understand jump on s2ki.com and read hundreds of other posts explaining the same thing and technique.

OR throw money at the problem, however if you are gonna wipe ure ass I'd recommend toilet paper rather than currency, coz thats what u'd be doing.

Good luck ;)

[JAP-S2K]

Doesnt sound like your doing it right.

You need to keep going back between 4th and 5th slightly forcing it a little more and more each time. You need to apply pressure otherwise its not gonna slip back in. Holding it is not going to work.

So there's a few things you can do now.

Listen to my instructions, don't be worried about applying a little pressure and with slow smooth shifts force it back in.

If for some reason my instructions are hard to understand jump on s2ki.com and read hundreds of other posts explaining the same thing and technique.

OR throw money at the problem, however if you are gonna wipe ure ass I'd recommend toilet paper rather than currency, coz thats what u'd be doing.

Good luck ;)

I understand the method behind making it making the gear engage again. What i don't understand is if the synchro is damaged. There's a good chance the bits will contaminate the gearbox oil and could possibly damage bearings and gears. Synchro's don't come good again, regardless the damage.

[F20C]

ok so who doesnt advise doing this?

whiteap1, so from 4th to 5th, do i put it back in 4th gear clutch out then clutch back in and try again into 5th? and so on until it goes in?

[JAP-S2K]

I'm not saying don't do it! Shit guys are claiming this method works. So hell yeah do it, it's got no 5th now, so you can't go backwards from here. My point being is a damaged synchro is a damaged for good, and more than likely it will eventually start to crunch.

Change you gearbox fluid straight away once you get it to go in, drive it for a day, change it again, drive it for a week, change it again. All may be good. After all oil is cheaper than a rebuild.

[WhiteAP1]

Worse case senario the edges of the synchro are ever so slightly rounded, there may be a few flakes in the gear box oil so yeah change it out.

F20C i dont know how else to explain it.You need to keep changing between 4th and 5th gears (like you normally would).Obvioulsy its not going to go into 5th right away, So take it as far as it will go into 5th and then drop it back into 4th. Accelerate slightly so you maintain a constant speed and then try to put it back into 5th again forcing it a little more each time. Repeat this until it slips back in.

Instead of asking who thinks you should do this, why dont you take 10 mins to research the problem youreslf, and make up your own damn mind. Believe it or not what happens to your gear box doesnt really bother me.

[F20C]

I typed it into s2ki forum like 2 days ago when you first posted about it. And every single thread i came across about 10 different ones, all said they took theirs in to get it fixed? or some would say it would go in then it wouldnt then it would when they take it back to the dealership. So i dont know where you found it on s2ki forum but i couldnt find it. I also read up on one thread someone said DONT do it because it will put to much strain on the box and could cause many of the gears to not function or somethingarather.

[WhiteAP1]

Thats most likely because your reading threads from about 2001-02 when everyones s2000 was new, the TSB for this issue had not been added to the list and warranty was still an option.

Alternate your search from "locked out gears" "missing 6th gear" and "missing 5th gear" i think you'll find a common theme.

Look, in the end if you feel more comfortable taking it to a dealership or whatever go for it, im just trying to help u the same way someone helped me when i had the same issue.

[F20C]

well i've been trying it since you've told me lol.. well only about 3 times :P anyway hypothetically i pushed it in and something went wrong is there a chance it ****s my whole box up?

[WhiteAP1]

You could be driving a brand new car off the line and theres a chance you could ruin the box on the way home. It depends what you do.

Do it right (which isn't difficult) and you shouldn't have any issues. Just like dozens and dozens of others who have treated this issue the same way. I've come across threads where dealers have treated the problem by working the gear back in the very same way.

Look, if you're not comfortable fixing a little thing like this, dont. Take it to someone, crack it open, swap it over, do whatever you feel is best.

[F20C]

well whiteap1 do it for me come on i know you wanna haha :P ill keep trying it i dont see how its wrong to do.. just tricky getting it in without forcing it to hard maybe? 4th > 5th and go back to 4th and do the same thing again applying abit more pressure next time? if thats the right waay i guess i got nothing to worry about lol?

[F20C]

So i got it in but i get this bad crunch whenever i let the clutch ou in 5th so what do i do now?

[WhiteAP1]

Sounds like you havn't worked it in enough and things havn't lined up %100 yet. Keep changing between 4th and 5th until it works it way back into the right spot. You'll know when its good again

[F20C]

i see so when i put it into 5th now do i let the clutch out? or just keep changing gears while the clutch is in so it can fix itself? its one disgusting sound by the way.. hearing it broke my heart lol :(

[F20C]

I must say whiteAP1 i thought this was just going to **** me completely and end up getting everything redone.. but your method worked great. It did make that gay crunching noise i was saying but today without even noticing i was driving in 5th and my friend said dude your in 5th? and it stunned me.. im like :|!!!!! IM IN 5TH!!! lol after so long not being able to get into it lol.. But one question still remains.. Why is it so hard to get it out of 5th? is that the synchro problem? Or do i just need to reoil my box? Thanks again man.

[JAP-S2K]

I must say whiteAP1 i thought this was just going to **** me completely and end up getting everything redone.. but your method worked great. It did make that gay crunching noise i was saying but today without even noticing i was driving in 5th and my friend said dude your in 5th? and it stunned me.. im like :|!!!!! IM IN 5TH!!! lol after so long not being able to get into it lol.. But one question still remains.. Why is it so hard to get it out of 5th? is that the synchro problem? Or do i just need to reoil my box? Thanks again man.

Good to hear you got it working, but seriously change your gearbox fluid now. If there's contaminants mixed into your gearbox fluid, that's not good idea. And could cause damage to other parts.

[F20C]

yeah ima get someone to do it for me hopefully this week.. Cause i dont know how to do it. I might just get a honda dealer to do it for me provided they dont charge 400 bucks -.- lol. My 5th actually has become alot less harder to get out also. I mentioned it before being hard to take it out but it feels smooth as and it hasnt popped out since. Thanks for the help guys.

[WhiteAP1]

The more you use it and the more you shift in and out of 5th the smoother it will become. It just has to wear itself back into place. Reason you were initially getting a crunching noise is because you probably werent forcefull enough the first time and you had a metal on metal thing happening. After an oil change and some regular use you gearbox should be fine.

[F20C]

Feels brand new again whiteAP1, i just gotta take it into honda this week and get a box fluid change =)

[vyets]

Do it urself mate
15 minutes

[F20C]

i dont know how vyets lol =(

[jaeyon]

F20C you need a copy of the service manual or something. half the fun in owning a sports car is in the diy.

[F20C]

yer i should get a service manual.

Edited by Ludecrs:
Semantics removed.

[vyets]

lol pay me instead of honda I'll do it for you for half their price haha

[WhiteAP1]

yer i should get a service manual.



Here's one

http://hondatech.info/downloads/Auto/Manuals/S2000/

[F20C]

rofl @ my edit thanks lude :P thanks white ill take a look and sure vyets do it for me haha :P