Wakefield suspension settings

[Limbo]

Hi All
Just wondering what toe & camber settings people are using for Wakefield?

I'm heading out for the first time but was told i should get these adjusted for the track.

Any other tips would be appreciated

[e240]

Stock settings that you use on the street would be fine..

I wouldn't really muck around with the settings until you can put down consistent times and have abit of understanding of the circuit..

What I use, 1 mm toe out in front, 0 mm rear, camber front 3 deg, rear 1 deg

Just watch those tyre pressures.

[tinkerbell]

do you know your current alignment settings?

are you running semi slicks, full slicks or road tyres?

[Limbo]

gonna run street tyres on my first outting, got some semis for my second outting.

Wanna learn the car first so i don't break something.

Gonna test those adrealines ;)

what do you guys recommend for tyre pressure?

[tinkerbell]

dependign on tyre size (i.e. diameter/width/profile) - tyre pressure on adrenalines could be around 37 to 42ish cold?

[Benson]

i would use semi slicks even if its your first time

Street tyre pressure around 38-39psi hot

Semi slicks 34-38psi hot (depends what you like)

As for alignment, it depends on tyre combo and how you like the car to behave. If you want a neutral feel, 0 toe is fine

[aaronng]

I ran 40 psi cold on my Adrenalins. But my car was heavy. Depends on what car you have.

[Limbo]

o ok,

Civic ek4, KYB adjustable dampener, 5Zigen springs, 22mm swaybar.

tyres - 195/55/15 adrealines
semis - 205/45/16 Kumhos

i dun think i have the room for 2 sets of tyres, was only gonna bring a pair of tyres as spare

[Benson]

drive down on the semi's.

Its only a 300km round trip, wear on the semi's wouldnt be much

[Limbo]

should i camber them?

[tinkerbell]

should i camber them?

what does that even mean?

[Limbo]

should i use camber on my semis?


what does that even mean?

[string]

Muck around with your setup once you've found a base level of performance. Fiddling with settings now will be pure speculation - drive the track and learn how your car responds to the surface then worry about the setup once you know what you want to change and what you want to achieve. No point worrying about camber now if you get out onto the track and learn your spring balance is completely different to what you want.

If it's your first time on the track, drive smoothly otherwise be prepared to rape your left side tyres.

[tinkerbell]

should i use camber on my semis?

should you increase it?

yes.

should you increase it and change your cars handling right before your first time out?

no. probably not...

[Limbo]

ok so is the going concenus that i just run my semis without any camber or toe adjustments for the first time out?

Also if i run my semis i should be running about 32PSi cold?

[Benson]

With semi slicks, run neg 2-3 camber on each side for the fronts

And dont change anything once your down the at the track, unless you have the wheel alignment machine

[tinkerbell]

Also if i run my semis i should be running about 32PSi cold?

32psi is a good start...

but you will probably change it during the day...

are you going with an experiecend person to help you?

[Limbo]

With semi slicks, run neg 2-3 camber on each side for the fronts

And dont change anything once your down the at the track, unless you have the wheel alignment machine


ok so neutral at the back? I'm thinking of getting those front camber adjustment kits, do you know if they work well?

[Limbo]

yeah going with a few friends who are experienced but they all drive different cars and theirs are RWD, so i thought their setups would be different from mine


32psi is a good start...

but you will probably change it during the day...

are you going with an experiecend person to help you?

[tinkerbell]

ok so neutral at the back?

i run 3 degrees rear camber on my car, and 3 degrees on front.

[Limbo]

what do u guys reckon about this camber kit?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ADJUSTABLE-FRONT-CAMBER-KIT-FOR-96-97-00-HONDA-CIVIC-EK_W0QQitemZ110410451912QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Car_ Parts_Accessories?hash=item19b4f9cbc8&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C 301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

[Benson]

umm, please dont get the cheap stuff for camber kits

You dont want them failing on you which can result in a bad incident

[tinkerbell]

they look mega-supa-ultra-McDodgy!

[e240]

Look, its your first time out and first time ever at the track - You're not going to be breaking any records, so honestly, I wouldn't be spending the money setting all these up yet - Semi's or not - As your car's lowered, you would already have around 1.5~2 in camber...

Don't over setup, not especially if its your first time..Just take your car down as it is. :wave:


what do u guys reckon about this camber kit?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ADJUSTABLE-FRONT-CAMBER-KIT-FOR-96-97-00-HONDA-CIVIC-EK_W0QQitemZ110410451912QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Car_ Parts_Accessories?hash=item19b4f9cbc8&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C 301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50


semis - 205/45/16 Kumhos

V700s? probably around 34psi

[Limbo]

lol fair enough

how about this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/99-00-HONDA-CIVIC-SI-CONTROL-ARMS-ADJUSTABLE-CAMBER-KIT_W0QQitemZ260428006034QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors _Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3ca2b80292&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1171 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/99-00-HONDA-CIVIC-SI-CONTROL-ARMS-ADJUSTABLE-CAMBER-KIT_W0QQitemZ260428006034QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors _Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3ca2b80292&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1171)


Hey Lenoard - yeah i think those are the ones! is that cold PSI you gave me?

[string]

They look even worse. You'll go faster spending the money on a second trip to Wakefield.

[jords]

Drive it stock buddy, learn the cars limits, and yours.

Your first outing should be a very slow learning curve, you need to learn how to brake, steer and drive smooth before you're gonna need to worry about camber kits etc. The final session of the day will be your best.

Just go have some fun on the track and then drive the car home at the end of the day in 1 piece.

Remember- The Driver who pushes and tries to go to quick usually ends up into the wall just off to the left of turn 1.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[e240]

lol fair enough
Hey Lenoard - yeah i think those are the ones! is that cold PSI you gave me?

Sorry - Hot...
So, you'd set them around 30~31 psi Cold (largely dependent on ambient temps), I'd start with 32 cold, drive around get used to the circuit
and then when you start driving reasonably hard, pull in after 2~3 laps and check your hot tyres pressures.

[Benson]

I personally would prefer to be on semi's if its my first time

[dasicvtec]

If you are going to do a wheel alignment either which way, easiest option is just do 0 Toe front and back. 1 degree negative camber all round. doesnt matter what tyre you use.

Go track day with those settings and then go from there. bridge stonetyre centre in smithfield can do a wheel alignment for around $50.

[fatboyz39]

Keep a tow truck number. Just in case.

[eg5civic]

umm, please dont get the cheap stuff for camber kits

You dont want them failing on you which can result in a bad incident

What camber kit you running on the byp civic benson?

[fatboyz39]

All camber kits shown are gonna fail. Street use there fine.

Skunk2 camber kit fail also. This is there pro series. Ball joint needs replacement so often.

We are using Hardrace.

[chargeR]

I agree with everyone here. Run what you have, consider changing alignment settings later after you have some experience under your belt.

Also those camber kits linked to are ultra ghetto. I have installed a Hard Race front camber kit in a friend's car and I was generally pleased with the design, it is far superior to the skunk2 pieces and the copies. I don't know how much the Hard Race kit will affect the compression travel of the front suspension though, perhaps fatboyz will comment on this.

[eg5civic]

how about buddyclub benson/fatboyz?

and where can these hardrace be bought

[Benson]

Hardrace can be bought through us soon. Send me a pm if interested

Cant comment on buddyclub parts as i havent used them before

[moo moo nel]

Me too agree with everyone here just run what you have
but at least do a proper street wheel alignment first before you go
also check the brakes, oil level, make sure no leaks, check tyre thread and pressure... that's about it

[iijjee]

Like plenty of people have said, take it with stock settings for first time. Bleed the brakes, check your pads, wheel alignment/balance front and back, full inspection of engine and suspension, flush radiator etc and make sure it's all lickety-split before you go.

I took semi's to WP but wouldn't quite fit under guards so ran new 205/45/16Adrenalins on front and old Toyo's on the back. Found grip was OK on a 33 degree day! But near end of day dropped hot tyre pressure to 28 psi and made a huge difference, especially rear-end grip (since they were not as grippy as the Adrenalines in the frist place!).

I barely learned the lines in half the corners in about 30 laps. It's not like a kart track you can learn in 10 minutes!

Tip in some octane boost, too! Forget camber kits.

[cymax]

Yeah, bring your car to a proper mechanic for full servicing. Drive up there, check ur tyre pressure. And u r all ready to go! Concentrate on lines for that day. Don't be complacent and give your full 100% speed. Do about 85% of ur capability on the car will allow you to control the car better and learn the line. Also, you might even get better timing than your full 100% on the car.

[tinkerbell]

Yeah, bring your car to a proper mechanic for full servicing.

why do you suggest that he does this?

what would a "proper mechanic" do? wave a magic wand?

also - what actually is a "proper mechanic"?

[cymax]

Hmmm.. perhaps im not elaborating this enough.


Go for servicing - Change your engine oil/oil filter/brake fluid/check brake pads?

Proper Mechanic - Can give you better advice if your car is okay for track and what needs to be changed after that? Don't think they have magic wand...magic spanner? :P

[tinkerbell]

Don't think they have magic wand...magic spanner? :P

best thing for them to have is 'direct experience' with your car, or if that is not possible, direct experience with the same model of car as yours... combined with extensive participation in track day racing...

but yeah, agree that if you are not that experienced, get soemone who is (can be a mate) to look over your car...

[zco]

my mate is my proper mechanic haha

[cymax]

Yeah, I agree with tinkerbell. I forgot to emphasise that which is important. Make sure that your mechanic knows what is right for track and what is wrong. I'm just glad that my mechanic has knowledge and able to advice what is good for me. Also, he is the only mechanic that I stick to as far as possible. But still, don't take it for granted. Do your own research will help alot.

In fact, I'm impress with the regulars here who build their own cars. Anything that concerns about the engine bay, I'll back off as I just have too little knowledge to put my hands in it. Also, I think I lack of the proper tools needed.

[Limbo]

yeah its fine i know what to do for the car, that's not a prob, just haven't visited the track before that's all

[cymax]

You'll have fun for sure. And you will be eager to go back again. It's so addictive

[moo moo nel]

track is fun

[Limbo]

yeah that's the general word i've got :)

[string]

Apologise to your wallet in advance; you've still got a chance to get out before you get bitten...

[fatboyz39]

LOL @ proper mechanics...

backyard built cars > workshop built cars.

[bighaks]

i told u what u need to do to the car!!!!!!!!!!!! semi's and a wheel alighnment nothing else for now.

[chargeR]

backyard built cars > workshop built cars.

Quoted for truth.

[cymax]

backyard built cars > workshop built cars.

Ahemmm.... Is that an advertisement? :P

But I got to agree with you. You guys really did a great job. Esp your EG B20

Oh yeah, will be at OP this Sunday to see you guys perform.

All the best.

[fatboyz39]

Ahemmm.... Is that an advertisement? :P

But I got to agree with you. You guys really did a great job. Esp your EG B20

Oh yeah, will be at OP this Sunday to see you guys perform.

All the best.


No Advertisement. Just in general. Really dont need to throw bucket loads of coin at a car to make it run fast. Be smart, think smart and it'll be quick and fun. A few guys on here built there cars themselves and are quite fast. Just makes the whole racing scene more fun building the car and racing it rather then get a workshop work on it , dump $XXX money on it then complain when it not performing.

[tinkerbell]

Oh yeah, will be at OP this Sunday to see you guys perform.


come say hello to all the JSCC crew,

we are nearly ALL backyard racers... :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[cymax]

come say hello to all the JSCC crew,

we are nearly ALL backyard racers... :thumbsup::thumbsup:

I would love to say hi to u guys there.wat time will u guys be there?and wat time will class 3B start? finally, how do I identify the JSCC guys?I can identify BYP tho.seen them at wakey a few times

[tinkerbell]

other JSCC cars competing on Sunday are car 62, 101, 107, 67, 47...

we all have JSCC stickers, but our car numbers are much easier to spot ;)

[cymax]

awesome!will go over 2 u guys to say hi.all e best yeah

[Limbo]

btw...

ended up with 2.5degree camber on rear only.

Was on the track and the car swung out alot, managed to get Jeff Button a pro racer to sit with me for a session, he was really sat as the passenger, told me what line to go and where to go in and out on the corners. Top bloke

My other problem at wakefield was the rear was too stiff and car kept spinning out.
After i soften the rear it was great! managed 1'17 on my 3 outting, 4th outting wasn't timed & then the gf wanted to go home :(

[string]

What are your spring rates?

I run 7/9 (f/r kg/mm) with a 24mm rear swaybar and no front swaybar and have no problems. It's all how you drive it.

Did you have a good time though?

[Benson]

2.5" camber is a fair bit. I would of went for 1 -1.5 neg camber for the rear.

Playing with dampers should only be done after you have the right tyre pressure. I know in our EG, we havent touched damper settings or experiment much, its all in the tyre pressures and alignment settings

[Limbo]

hmm the tyres were about 33-34 hot.

the camber was set by BTC in smithfield, dunno if that is what made it twitchy.

But the pro driver told me my rear was too stiff also from the way the car reacted.

i dropped the damper by 1 and it seem to react better.

All in all it was great and i can't wait for the next time out.

I'll try getting the camber adjusted for 1degree next time

[moo moo nel]

well done :thumbsup:

[Limbo]

thanks man i had heaps of fun. Its great when someone take the time to give a few tips on the track

only thing is the pedal has gone abit spongy & the pads don't seem to bite as hard anymore. They were stock ITR pads. They didn't even wear out that much.
Dunno if the heat screwed them up

[jords]

yeah, stock ITR pads do go a bit spongy after a few sessions.

How much did your wheel alignment cost you?

[Limbo]

wheel alignment cost me $60

[tinkerbell]

only thing is the pedal has gone abit spongy & the pads don't seem to bite as hard anymore. They were stock ITR pads. They didn't even wear out that much.
Dunno if the heat screwed them up

they'll do that, it goes away after a while if you are using good fluid (like RBF600 or similar).

if you are using stock fluid, you will need to bleed the brakes if it doesnt go away...

[Benson]

We use to run stock fluid. Not much fade after 2-3trackdays. We give it a flush after 4 events

[Limbo]

yeah it seems to be good now. I used castrol response, newly flushed for the track.

So its the fluid not the pads then that has the issue?

[Benson]

If your pads are really low, then yeh its an issue as well

I know with my last EK, i barely had any brake pads left, brakes were really spongy, new pads and it fixed all the issue

[vinnY]

didn't have much rotor left either benson hehe

how did the boosted b16 hold up limbo? any cooling issues?

[TYPE-ONE]

wheel alignment cost me $60

wat did they tamper with? just toe?

[Limbo]

vinny - stayed at 90degree oil temp all day, water stayed at normal operating, this was even when i thrashed it around continiously. Large oil cooler & large intercooler play a large part i think, also i have a baffled sump

Type-one - They adjusted toe to be zero, camber to be zero at front & 2.5 degree on rear