extreme summer tyres compared(re11, z1 starspec, xs and ad08)

[vinnY]

while trolling tirerack.com (http://www.tirerack.com) i stumbled on a video (http://www.tirerack.com/videos/index.jsp?video=39) they have comparing some popular extreme summer performance tyres

bridgestone re-11
dunflop direzza z1 star spec
kumho xs(ku36)
advan neova ad08

thought some of you guys may be interested

on another note, been trying to get a quote for shipping to australia from tirerack, i seem to be the only person in the world who they don't bother emailing back :( anyone have any direct contacts who actually reply?

[Tai]

Too bad we cant get most of those locally.

I dont think its worth the effort shipping a set of tyres for one person only from the states which is why i think they might be ignoring you.

PM Jdmyard or JDMconcept to see if they can get some in for you.

[string]

I dont think its worth the effort shipping a set of tyres for one person only from the states which is why i think they might be ignoring you.

You'd be wrong. I know of many cases where they've shipped a single set of tyres over here (including to myself). If they're not responding it's likely they're busy or your emails were formatted poorly and they think you are wasting their time.

[JohnL]

You'd be wrong. I know of many cases where they've shipped a single set of tyres over here (including to myself). If they're not responding it's likely they're busy or your emails were formatted poorly and they think you are wasting their time.

So what sort of money did the shipping come to? Having owned a business that internationally exported individually packaged product both by mail and international courier, I would expect freight on tyres to be prohibitively expensive...

Keep in mind that you want to buy tyres that are made for use in a country where cars are driven on the left side of the road, not the right side. This is because just about all tyres have a slight tendency to pull ('lead') either left or right, the direction being dependant on the direction in which diagonal weave of the steel belts is oriented when the tyre is made.

This is called 'bias steer', and it is inherant in the details of the individual tyre's construction. No matter how the tyre is fitted to the car you cannot change the direction of the inbuilt steering pull, not if you swap the tyre side to side, not if you flip the tyre over. The only thing you could do is to turn the tyre inside out, which would cause problems...

In the tread there are typically two steel belts, and each will be oriented in the opposite direction, but the one closest to the tread surface has a larger affect on steering pull (or the other way around, not sure). The tyre manufacturer uses (or should use) this slight inherant tendency to lead one way or the other to counteract the steering pull created by road crown.

In Australia, road crown causes a pull / lead to the left, so tyres made for sale in this market should have a natural tendency to lead slightly to the right (counteracting left inclined road crown induced lead). If however you have tyres made for sale in say the USA, then those tyres are likely to be manufactured to lead to the left (obviously because road crown in the US will incline to the right), but in this country this tendency will be added to any tendency for the tyre / car to follow the local left inclined road crown. This could cumulatively create a steering pull to the left strong enough to be noticable, and irritating, and contributory to increased tyre wear...

[Tai]

Why are you so awesome John.....

[vinnY]

yeah no idea why the hell they're not replying to me

just followed the instructions off one of the guys on another forums
specify tyre brand, model, size and amount
complete shipping address
and a thank you at the end
beats me as to why i never get replies

[string]

Shipping was USD$230 for 4 195/50/15 tyres.

Clearly manufacturers wouldn't build this "bias steer" into their competition tyres so at which point down the chain does it come in?

[chargeR]

I am another person that has successfully ordered tyres from Tirerack. When the exchange rate was good I got 225/50-16 RE01R landed for about $220 a tyre which was a good price especially when it is a similar amount to what an RE001 can be had for.

At the current exchange rate it might not be so economical but it is a good option for obtaining the tyres that aren't generally distributed here.

[JohnL]

Why are you so awesome John.....

Hey, stop taking the piss...

It might seem like it's a very minor, rare and esoteric problem, but it's a pain when it happens to you, and you can't get rid of it. Having a steering pull really spoils the pleasure of driving a car because it messes with the steering feel, making it dull, lifeless and uncommunicative.

I strongly suspect (?) that there are plenty of tyres on the Australian market that were originally intended for right hand side of the road driving markets, especially cheaper tyres sourced from non affiliated tyre outlets, and that this is possibly a cause of what at least seems to be quite a few people complaining of cars that pull left...(?).

Over the last several years I've had a series of tyres of various brands from various outlets, most at the 'budget' end of the price spectrum, but not at the complete crap extreme (though there were those Falkens that were utterly abysmal considering their price...). All of these tyres pulled slightly to the left, and this has been a persistant problem that has existed no matter how accurately the car has been wheel aligned, chassis checked for 'squareness' etc etc (even deliberately setting camber and caster angles asymmetrically did not effect a cure - car now set symmetrically again).

As the tyres wore down the problem became progressively worse, when new tyres were fitted the problem invariably and instantly became substantially less (ignorable, but not entirely disappearing). But, as the tyre wore down the car would start pulling left again to an irritating degree.

A sure sign is that with equally worn front tyres (same pattern of wear as well as degree) when the wheel alignment is set with the steering wheel at the exact straight ahead position / with the front toe exactly equal and to the chassis centreline (and all other angles equal side to side, front and rear), when you drive the car on a level surface the car pulls left and the steering wheel is off centre to the right. So therefore the front wheels must be pointing slightly to the right even though the car is travelling in a straight line (this won't be good for tyre wear, and the semi constant pull numbs steering feel and feedback).

Now, as of a few weeks ago, my car tracks dead straight with the steering wheel dead centre, and no sign of any tendency to pull more left than it does right (any momentary steering pulls being easily attributable to road surface factors). I've done nothing to the alignment, but I have fitted a couple of S/H tyres (more or less freebies that came on some Prelude wheels I've bought for my Accord) that are quite worn (but still legal), and worn with an identical degree and pattern of wear (a bit more wear on the inner edges, same on both tyres).

The left pull disappeared the moment the front tyres were changed to these 'new' tyres. Due to the lack of pull the steering wheel now points dead straight, and feels terrific instead of numb and uncommunicative. Now, on a dead level road, there is the slightest hint of a right pull, but most of the time (with a slight left leaning road camber) there is no noticable pull at all.

I can only attribute this to the previous sets of front tyres all having had a tendency to slightly pull left, and the only explanation for that which I can come up with is bias steer caused by the construction being inappropriate for roads having a left leaning camber, (i.e. those tyres having being sold in the wrong market because they were originally made for driving on the right hand side of the road.

Now, I'm very happy with these 'new' tyres (Simex SM8000), which have very nice / sharp handling with a good stiff sidewall (if not fantastic wet grip), and would happily buy some new ones, but, they are no longer available (of course...).

The problem for me becomes not falling into this trap again when I need to replace these tyres very soon...

[JohnL]

Shipping was USD$230 for 4 195/50/15 tyres.

I think I'd want to be making a pretty hefty saving on the product price...


Clearly manufacturers wouldn't build this "bias steer" into their competition tyres so at which point down the chain does it come in?

I'm no tyre engineer, and my understanding of this is just what I've picked up from reading here and there, is pretty basic and may concievably be in error (hard to believe I know...). FWIW my understanding of bias steer is as follows:

It's not a matter of deliberately creating a tendency for the tyre to 'lead' in any given direction, or any direction at all. It's more that it's very hard (impossible?) to make a radial tyre that actually has zero bias steer, i.e. it may not be avoidable.

This is due to the nature of the tyre, with each steel belt being a steel wire 'fabric' having a 'grain' that is laid up in the tyre at an angle to the centreline of the tyre, i.e. each steel belt / ply has a diagonal orientation relative to the centreline. Because the steel fabric has a different stiffness along it's length than across it's width (due to the nature of how it's woven), this diagonalty causes the belt to create a tendency for the tyre to 'lead' either left or right.

If there were only a single steel ply then the tendency for the tyre to lead left or right would probably be quite strong, but because there are two steel plies the other ply can be laid up with an opposite diagonal orientation to the first steel ply. This means that the second ply will create a tendency for the tyre to lead in the opposite direction to the tendency created by the first steel ply, i.e. the opposite diagonally oriented directionalities of the two steel plies tend to cancel each other out as far as tyre 'lead' is concerned.

However, one of the steel plies is closer to the inside of the tyre, and the other is closer to the outside of the tyre. This means that one of the plies has a slightly stronger affect on tyre lead than does the other, so the net effect is a slight tendency for the tyre to lead in one or the other direction depending on which ply is orientated on which diagonal.

The effect is slight, and probably not very noticable unless also added to another cause of steering pull (e.g. road crown). On a radial racing tyre I'd expect a slight 'lead' to exist, but not be great enough to be particularly noticable.

And now to cover my arse: I could be wrong...

This is 100% no argument correct though: If you have a tyre that is causing a noticable pull because of bias steer, then as I stated previously it cannot be changed no matter how the tyre is fitted to the car, it will always pull to the left, or it will always pull to the right. On the other hand, a pull caused by 'conicity' ('conical' / tapered tread wear) can be changed in direction depending on how the tyre is fitted to the car.

[nd55]

AD-07 have been available in Oz in 205/45R16, they are spec issue on the Rally Art Colt.

Taleb tyres does the Falken RT-615.

RE-01R aren't too shaby a tyre and were available locally when I was looking.

None were cheap, however I don't see then need to import tyres.

> Simex SM8000

John, Simex tyres?? really? ..... They really OK?

Nick.


PS> Best bang for bang upgrade ever!!!!

[string]

None were cheap, however I don't see then need to import tyres.

Same product, less money - no need for 'need'.

[JohnL]

> Simex SM8000

John, Simex tyres?? really? ..... They really OK?

Nick.

Nick,
I bought some Prelude wheels on ebay (for my CB7 Accord). Driving to collect them found I had a front wheel vibration on very smooth surfaces at 100+kmh. When I collected the wheels there happened to be two fitted with tyres (205/55/15) that looked OK to use, so I fitted them to get rid of (hopefully) the vibration for the drive home (they were also out of balance, but less so..).

I was fully expecting these tyres to be utter rubbish, but was very surprised to find that they are not at all bad. They aren't particularly grippy tyres but grippy enough (might be better if not so worn / ancient...). Their strong suit is that and they handle very nicely with very good steering / handling response and excellent stability.

They do have quite stiff lower sidewalls (you can feel it when you push against it), which would account for a lot of the steering and handling response (the rest would be due to worn down tread blocks). I had another of these tyres that was too worn to use, so I cut the sidewall apart to have a look at it's structure, and found they have a very substantial apex / bead filler that extends half way up the sidewall.

I'm sure there are better tyres, but considering that these Simex's would have been fairly 'economically priced' tyres I am very impressed with them. I still have these fitted to the car, and intend to use them all the way down to the tread wear indicators, maybe beyond...

'Simex' is now 'Sime', but they appear hard to source, and they don't now seem to have a tyre equivalent to the SM8000 available in 205/55/15 size.

[kongfu]

Well, Im currently running AD08 atm, all I can say is quality is second to none..I will stick with AD08 for my future choice.

Wet,dry grip is fantastic! I've been to kinglake and mt danenong for spirited run perform like semi slicks..

Also my friend ordered RE11, he said AD08 wet grip is better.

[EP3EVA]

Well, Im currently running AD08 atm, all I can say is quality is second to none..I will stick with AD08 for my future choice.

Wet,dry grip is fantastic! I've been to kinglake and mt danenong for spirited run perform like semi slicks..

Also my friend ordered RE11, he said AD08 wet grip is better.

what car you drive??

if you dont mind could you tell how much is the AD08, where you got them?

thanx

[kongfu]

what car you drive??

if you dont mind could you tell how much is the AD08, where you got them?

thanx

Evo 235/45/17 AD08

PM me

[DC5TYPER]

Tires Tested:
Bridgestone Potenza RE-11 (Extreme Performance Summer 225/45R17)

* What We Liked: Excellent road manners and wet grip
* What We'd Improve: Improve steering response slightly
* Conclusion: An Extreme Performance Summer tire you can live with during day-to-day driving
* Latest Test Rank: 1st
* Previous Test Rank: Not previously tested

Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec (Extreme Performance Summer 225/45R17)

* What We Liked: Excellent blend of responsiveness and ultimate grip
* What We'd Improve: Reduce tread noise growl
* Conclusion: Still a shining star in the Extreme Performance Summer category
* Latest Test Rank: 3rd
* Previous Test Rank:1st (May '08)

Kumho Ecsta XS (Extreme Performance Summer 225/45R17)

* What We Liked: Excellent ultimate dry cornering traction
* What We'd Improve: Wet traction and steering precision
* Conclusion: The perfect tire for drivers wanting ultimate dry cornering grip
* Latest Test Rank: 4th
* Previous Test Rank: Not previously tested

Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD08 (Extreme Performance Summer 225/45R17)

* What We Liked: Laser-sharp steering response and balance of dry and wet traction
* What We'd Improve: A modest reduction in tire impact noise
* Conclusion: Race tire-like handling and traction for the street
* Latest Test Rank: 2nd
* Previous Test Rank: Not previously tested

[DC5TYPER]

Ive got the Kuhmo XS.

Bought locally.

255/40/17 $280 each

Quoted over $500 each for AD08.

ummmmm. XS is cheap yo!

[JohnL]

Tires Tested:
Bridgestone Potenza RE-11 (Extreme Performance Summer 225/45R17)

* What We Liked: Excellent road manners and wet grip
* What We'd Improve: Improve steering response slightly
* Conclusion: An Extreme Performance Summer tire you can live with during day-to-day driving
* Latest Test Rank: 1st
* Previous Test Rank: Not previously tested .....................

You ought to reference the page from which stuff like this is lifted. In this case that would be 'tirerack.com'?

[vinnY]

just a fyi for everyone
tirerack finally got back to me after 3 email's
quoted me about $215US to ship a set of 4 15" tyres

might grab a set of those dunflops to test...

[Limbo]

fyi vinny, got 215/45/16 ku36 for $150 each delivered

[vinnY]

yeah i was gonna hit them but i wanted 195/55/15
rims only 6" and 205 bulges too much

[vinnY]

out of curiousity of those who bought from tirerack, how did you pay?
seems i can't pay from a credit card

edit; nevermind found the international transfer option in cba's netbank :p

[string]

I had to do a wire transfer, cost an extra $17 or so.

[vinnY]

yeah i just ended up doing a transfer, cost me $22 with cba :(

[Limbo]

bugger, was it really worth it?
I got mine from QLD

[vinnY]

i'll let you know after i get them :p
if it holds up as well as my re-01r's did then i'm happy with the price, correct size too
none of this 205/50/15 shenanigans on my 6" wide rims

[string]

It was worth it when the exchange rate was 95c.

Are you getting starspecs? They aren't small, just like the RE01-R's. I bet they're about the same size as a 205/50/15 KU36 which are incredibly cheap.

The numbers aren't measures of the actual size so don't go by them for "correct size".

[vinnY]

close enough
only way one to find out whether they're good or not