Pistons not firing 100%

[tayl51601]

On the weekend i replaced the spark plugs, they were fine for about 20k's of driving, i then decided to rev the car out to 8,000rpm and ever since then my car is running as though one of the pistons arent firing 100%

Some may know of the "wrx" noise a honda motor will make if a piston is dropped, mine is making a very slight "wrx" noise, i thought it was just me being paranoid at first but it definately has a slight noise of a faulty piston, also there is more smoke than usual coming out of the rocker cover and the pcv valve.

The replica mugen rocker cover i have on had loose paint around the spark plug holes, this paint is almost like rubber.
I personally think some of that paint has dropped into the hole when the plug was out which is getting in the way of the spark, which would explain it not firing 100% as well as the extra smoke coming out.

Im planning on removing the whole head this week to get to the top of the piston to find this paint. The thing that i would like to know is does anyone recommend anything before i pull the whole head off for absolutely no reason?? Is there a way of cleaning the pistons without stripping everything apart??

[lil_foy]

Is the sound coming from the engine itself or the muffler?

Did you check if the gap was all good on the plugs?

[tayl51601]

Its coming from both the engine and muffler, you can feel it when sitting in the car when idling.

I didnt check the gap no but i thought it might have been a faulty plug in the pack so i changed them back to the old ones, still the same problem so i just changed back to new ones so the gaps must be fine.

[aaronng]

You checked your dizzy and leads yet?

[tayl51601]

I checked the leads, im going to check the dizzy with a multi meter hopefully tonight.
It cant just be coincidence that the dizzy went 20km after i changed the spark plugs lol even though i hope it is the dizzy!

[Limbo]

check leads.

lower the gap to .9mm or even lower like .6mm
I had the same problems when i gapped mine to 1.1mm

If it is acting up on idle, could be you've fouled your plugs.
Buy some cheap copper plugs and try putting them in.

Then if that doesn't help, try the following;

1) check voltage & earthing
2) check map sensor
3) check ECU

i just did all these over the weekend also cos i had a similar problem

[tayl51601]

Its definatley not the plugs or leads, i changed them both back to the previous plugs and stock leads and the problem was still there.

Did you end up finding what was causing your problem?

[onnos]

it sounds like u smashed a ring land.aka cracked piston. if it breathing heavier ie more smoke coming out the breather then combustion gases getting past one of your pistons and into the sump. another sign it a cracked piston is the wrx noise. a simple compression test will determine if it down on compression and a leak down test will determine if it a shagged piston.as for the paint it would have to be a big chunk of paint to block the spark. small bits of paint would be burnt or pushed out past the exhaust valve.

[TODA AU]

Its definatley not the plugs or leads, i changed them both back to the previous plugs and stock leads and the problem was still there.
Are you going to finnish the job?
Did you check the dissy cap & rotor button like Aaron said?
Have you done a compression test yet ?

[tayl51601]

Are you going to finnish the job?
Did you check the dissy cap & rotor button like Aaron said?
Have you done a compression test yet ?

I was planning on stripping the head off tonight but was going to test the dizzy first.
It cant really be a sparking issue though could it? Not with the amount of smoke thats pouring out, its getting gradually worse everytime it starts so it might be a cracked piston........
Wouldnt mind forged internals but i do mind the long trip back to you! lol

[JasonGilholme]

i had a rough idle problem and it was the ICM in the dizzy.

But i wasn't blowing any smoke. I was getting hesitation in the RPM range as well cause it was missing firing everynow and then.

Check these things first before you go opening the engine.

[tayl51601]

Im going to try buy a compression tester tonight and test the pistons.

If my pistons rings are gone i know that it will cause it to smoke out of the head but will it cause that "wrx" noise?? Theres a fair bit of smoke pouring out at the moment, mainly out of the catch can which is only hooked up to the pcv valve. Thats why im almost certain its the pistons, probably oil leaking in there. whether its the rings or a cracked piston i dont know until i get inside there.

I guess it cant be that paint because it would have burnt away by now, like onnos said it would have had to be a big chunk of paint for it to last this long.

[aaronng]

I was planning on stripping the head off tonight but was going to test the dizzy first.
It cant really be a sparking issue though could it? Not with the amount of smoke thats pouring out, its getting gradually worse everytime it starts so it might be a cracked piston........
Wouldnt mind forged internals but i do mind the long trip back to you! lol

Yes it can be a sparking issue. Unburnt fuel going though mixing with hot exhaust gases from the other cylinders can produce grey smoke.

You can check using those inductive current detectors that you can loop around each lead to see which ones is not firing (or is weak)

[tayl51601]

Its definately the headgasket or a cracked piston.............

Got a creamy paste in the oil cap
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/2342/dsc00194cux.jpg

This is the highest reading i got on piston no.4
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7752/dsc00195h.jpg

And this is about what i got for the other three (piston no.1-145psi no.2-150psi no.3-165psi)
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/5761/dsc00196n.jpg

[delsol9000rpms]

might be a bent valve. do a wet compression test and then pull the head off.

[tayl51601]

Defs somthing to do with the pistons, wet test on piston no.4:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/5318/dsc00198f.jpg

[TODA AU]

Broken ring lands

[tayl51601]

Great so i need new pistons lol, is there a forged or a stronger piston with the stock compression that you would recommend adrain??

[TODA AU]

Great so i need new pistons lol, is there a forged or a stronger piston with the stock compression that you would recommend adrain??

CP Pistons PN: SC7101 - 81.50 10.5:1 C/R
Mahle Motorsport PN: ACR181199F01 - 81.25 9.2:1 C/R
Either one of these will do the job,
The Mahle piston is IMO a little nicer,
But also a bit of a pain too as you will need to narrow up the small end of the rod.
In either case, you"ll need to either have the small end (con rod)modified to accept floating pin or change to aftermarket rods.
Both run tight piston to bore clearences,
Be sure the machinist uses a dummy head for bore & hone.

Anyway...
Pull it down 1st and make sure thats wat the problem is...
Once youve found the problem, be sure to determine the cause & eliminate this from your next built...

Ring lands & head gaskets usually means 1 thing...
Detonation.
Have a real good look at the piston tops.

[tayl51601]

Could have possibly been the spark plugs that i just put in??
Because it was only about 15-20ks after i changed the plugs when it would have detonated, i know the wrong heat range in plugs can cause detonation.
The plugs i used were iriway 8's like you said so they should have been alright.

If i lower the compression of my pistons to about 9 (use the Mahle pistons) that should also help shouldnt it?

[tayl51601]

Also i found this:

Check for loss of EGR. The Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system is one of the engine's primary emission controls. Its purpose is to reduce oxides of nitrogen (NOX) pollution in the exhaust. It does this by "leaking" (recirculating) small amounts of exhaust into the intake manifold through the EGR valve. Though the gases are hot, they actually have a cooling effect on combustion temperatures by diluting the air/fuel mixture slightly. Lowering the combustion temperature reduces the formation of NOX as well as the octane requirements of the engine.
If the EGR valve is not opening, either because the valve itself is defective or because its vacuum supply is blocked (loose, plugged or misrouted vacuum hose connections, or a defective vacuum control valve or solenoid), the cooling effect is lost. The result will be higher combustion temperatures under load and an increased chance of detonation.

Could it be because i have run the pcv valve to my catch can like this:
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2909/le0c9ceb3e1f4450380b5c6.jpg

[tayl51601]

Sorry about all the questions but what about CP Pistons PN: SC7000 - 81.00 9.0:1 C/R

They will give me a lower compression ratio and are standard size so i dont have to bore the cylinder??

[IEVAQ8]

i cant believe the engine has let go, only just after ur final tune.......

its a fukn shame.......

take ur time building it and ask heaps of questions and speak to the right people and especially ur tuner.........

it maybe possible that the gaping on the new plugs where wrong and it let go with a strong detonation, or possible just coincidence it let go after change of plugs.

let me know if u need any help

[aaronng]

Also i found this:

Check for loss of EGR. The Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system is one of the engine's primary emission controls. Its purpose is to reduce oxides of nitrogen (NOX) pollution in the exhaust. It does this by "leaking" (recirculating) small amounts of exhaust into the intake manifold through the EGR valve. Though the gases are hot, they actually have a cooling effect on combustion temperatures by diluting the air/fuel mixture slightly. Lowering the combustion temperature reduces the formation of NOX as well as the octane requirements of the engine.
If the EGR valve is not opening, either because the valve itself is defective or because its vacuum supply is blocked (loose, plugged or misrouted vacuum hose connections, or a defective vacuum control valve or solenoid), the cooling effect is lost. The result will be higher combustion temperatures under load and an increased chance of detonation.

Could it be because i have run the pcv valve to my catch can like this:
[IMG]http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2909/le0c9ceb3e1f4450380b5c6.jpg[IMG]
That shouldn't affect it. Also, PCV is not the same as EGR.
How long were you running your car without a tune, and how long did it take to reach the final tune? Were you driving your car with spurts of acceleration during the phase where you were still tuning it?

[tayl51601]

i cant believe the engine has let go, only just after ur final tune.......

its a fukn shame.......

take ur time building it and ask heaps of questions and speak to the right people and especially ur tuner.........

it maybe possible that the gaping on the new plugs where wrong and it let go with a strong detonation, or possible just coincidence it let go after change of plugs.

let me know if u need any help

Im sort of shocked as well, didnt expect it to detonate so early.

Ill have to check out the plugs and inspect everything, dont want to buy new pistons again after this rebuild, one time detonation is already too often

Thanks tom!

[Limbo]

plugs could do it but you should have noticed detonation, its really obvious.
doubt its the catch-can setup

[tayl51601]

The car got tuned first time end of last year i think.
Then i got new exhaust which allowed more boost and drove around like that for about 2 or 3 months, when adrain ran the first run before he tuned it he said it was running lean so maybe the detonation happened a few weeks ago and its just taken a while for the crack or whatever to show properly......


That shouldn't affect it. Also, PCV is not the same as EGR.
How long were you running your car without a tune, and how long did it take to reach the final tune? Were you driving your car with spurts of acceleration during the phase where you were still tuning it?

[IEVAQ8]

i think it might have been either on its way from previous old crappy tune, or the gapping on the plugs were way out

[tayl51601]

plugs could do it but you should have noticed detonation, its really obvious.
doubt its the catch-can setup

Could it have been a small detonation that just caused a crack in the ring land and when i gave it a boot the other day it decided to finally break?? Because when i first started to notice the problem it was minor and just got worse and worse the more i drove, first i thought i was getting paranoid when i heard the very slight wrx noise then as i got closer to home it was louder, i then drove 5 min down the road that day and noticed smoke starting to pour out of my catch can.

Maybe if im lucky its just a head gasket but i dont think im that lucky.....

[B18cEG]

when r u gonna pull the head off for a look?

[tayl51601]

Im going to start on it tonight, was going to do it last night but it was getting late after all the tests

Ill keep this thread updated so you can follow if you want, i think it might be starting to get into the wrong section on the forum though, mods can move it to forced induction or technical if they want.......

[aaronng]

The car got tuned first time end of last year i think.
Then i got new exhaust which allowed more boost and drove around like that for about 2 or 3 months, when adrain ran the first run before he tuned it he said it was running lean so maybe the detonation happened a few weeks ago and its just taken a while for the crack or whatever to show properly......

If you increased the boost without retuning and it was running lean, then that could be the cause of the failure. It doesn't need to detonate to cause damage. Just by running lean, the cylinder temperatures are very high and can cause gradual damage.

[Alexx]

let me know if you want me to drop down the road and help man

[tayl51601]

If you increased the boost without retuning and it was running lean, then that could be the cause of the failure. It doesn't need to detonate to cause damage. Just by running lean, the cylinder temperatures are very high and can cause gradual damage.

Yea it could have been because it was running lean for so long, i did do a road trip to sydney running lean aswell...... Will find out soon!


let me know if you want me to drop down the road and help man

Thanks man! Your always welcome to just come around and have a look if you want!
Will let you know if i need help :thumbsup:

[tayl51601]

Looks pretty clean imo

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1893/dsc00199fol.jpg

[TODA AU]

If i lower the compression of my pistons to about 9 (use the Mahle pistons) that should also help shouldnt it?
Yes, a little lower in the compression will do wonders for reliability.


Sorry about all the questions but what about CP Pistons PN: SC7000 - 81.00 9.0:1 C/R

They will give me a lower compression ratio and are standard size so i dont have to bore the cylinder??

If the bores are damaged from the pistons,
It's unlikey you'll get away with stock bore pistons.
If you have to hone it so much that the piston to bore clearence is compromised, you're better off using the 1st or 2nd oversize.

[TODA AU]

Could it have been a small detonation that just caused a crack in the ring land and when i gave it a boot the other day it decided to finally break?? Because when i first started to notice the problem it was minor and just got worse and worse the more i drove, first i thought i was getting paranoid when i heard the very slight wrx noise then as i got closer to home it was louder, i then drove 5 min down the road that day and noticed smoke starting to pour out of my catch can.

Maybe if im lucky its just a head gasket but i dont think im that lucky.....

You'll know when you see the tops of the pistons,
If there are little caraters or pit's it's heavy detonation at one time,
If there's no indication of detonation, it's proably a heat issue from being lean with a couple of light knocks that sent it over the edge.

[tayl51601]

Ive been a bit lazy lol but ive got this far and now i dont have a socket that fits in the hole to take the head bolts out.........

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6725/dsc00201vxb.jpg

[tayl51601]

If i get a lower compression do i have to get it tuned again?? lol

Im waiting to get the head off then ill check the cylinders to see if they have to be bored or not then ill decide on what pistons ill be getting......


Yes, a little lower in the compression will do wonders for reliability.



If the bores are damaged from the pistons,
It's unlikey you'll get away with stock bore pistons.
If you have to hone it so much that the piston to bore clearence is compromised, you're better off using the 1st or 2nd oversize.

[B18cEG]

14mm socket to get the head off if there stock bolts

[tayl51601]

Yea i thought it was a 14mm socket but mine doesnt fit in the hole, ill have to wait until i can find my way to repco......

[tayl51601]

Alright i bought a socket last night and got the head bolts out, though i never took the intake manifold off thinking it would lift up with the head.

How do you get the intake manifold off???? lol its impossible to get to the nuts underneath the IM and there is a bracket at the back of it near the oil filter, i got one of the nuts off that bracket with ease but i cant get to the last one............ I have no idea how to get the IM off and thats the only thing stopping me now to get the head off.

But any way it was good to get the head loose within 5 minutes lol, never knew how hard 100Nm was until now......

[B18cEG]

Its easy to undo the manifold, use a spanner for most of them. You can always just sneak a peek under the head just by tilting it lol

[JasonGilholme]

Intake manifold isn't that hard. Just a few of the bolts are fiddly, especially when its in the car still. Patience and you'll get it.

100nm is nothing if you have torque wrench or a breaker bar. :thumbsup:

[tayl51601]

With a lot of swearing and telling the car i hate it i finally got the head off lol, pistons look dirty but not damaged on the top............
Might just be piston rings?? Ill have to remove the pistons to check properly.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5964/10011581.jpg


The right piston in this pic (no. 4) is the one that came up with the low compression.


http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/2825/10011601.jpg


And these are the two left ones


http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7846/10011621.jpg

[B18cEG]

What compression ratio and how much boost were u running????

[tayl51601]

stock compression and 9psi
I just found a hex set of socket i never knew i had :thumbsup:
lol i dont know if im annoyed that i already got the head off with out them or pleased to find them............

[delsol9000rpms]

it kinda looks like there is a crack on the block on that cylinder at the bottom right side?

[fatboyz39]

Hmmmm.... from the pics the bottom end looks to be in OK condition. Ill suspect more so the head is the problem. Low compression can be a few things. Could be bent valves, valves not sealing to valve seat and etc.

Clean up the bottom end abit and take clearer pics. Take a pic underneath the head.

[JasonGilholme]

That sleeve could just be marked not cracked. hard to tell from the pics though.

as fatboy has said, check the underside of the head. its possible for it to have cracks etc too. i dont think its a common thing on honda's though. the sleeves would go first i think.

Valves/valve guides etc may be the culprit.

[TODA AU]

DIY checK valve seating with not compressed air available...
Clean the ports out with carby cleaner & dry...
Put the head on a bench, combustion chambers up (with sparg plugs still fitted)
Fill each chamber with ATF & leave over night. (Don't spill it over though)
Check the ports in the morning for ATF.

[JasonGilholme]

nice!!

Why ATF though? is its chemical make up appropriate for something? or is the weight ideal for testing the seal?

[TODA AU]

Naa, it's more straight forward than that...
It's easy to get & clean up...
Won't evaporate or catch fire like fuel & is easy to see...
Best of all, is thin enough make it through a valve seat that just isn't sealing properly...
Takes awhile though is the leak is small so is best left over night.

[tayl51601]

Yea that crack on the fourth cylinder is just a mark.........
Pics arent too good but there is no damage that i can see to the top of the pistons.

Whats ATF?? lol ill do that test today if i can
Ill go get a pic of the bottom of the head soon as well

[Zilli]

atf= automatic transmission fluid

[tayl51601]

sweet thanks!

[tayl51601]

Heres some pics of the pistons cleaned up:

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/9038/dsc00203x.jpg


Piston no.4 (the one with low compression):

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8311/dsc00202c.jpg


Also, when smoke was coming out of my catch can, it was coming out of this thing:

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8866/dsc00205v.jpg

Which is where the pcv valve is connected to when the IM is on (the whole in the black box).
If its the head could it still be causing smoke to go through there??

[tayl51601]

I did the ATF test last night, when i checked quickly this morning they all seemed to be at the same levels still.
Ill check again when i get home this arvo.

What else could it be?? The head gasket was still in good condition.

[Redlinemotorsport]

piston rings. its pretty much the only thing left.

[JasonGilholme]

"Now me and the mad scientist have to tear apart the block to replace the piston rings that you've fried!"

Too much nos man. haha.

If the head + sleeves + gasket + valves are still in good nick it has to be the rings doesn't it??

[tayl51601]

"Now me and the mad scientist have to tear apart the block to replace the piston rings that you've fried!"

Too much nos man. haha.

If the head + sleeves + gasket + valves are still in good nick it has to be the rings doesn't it??

I knew i used too much to smash that falcon the other day...........lol

I guess thats what ill be doing this weekend then, didnt really want to take out the pistons is i didnt have to lol

[JasonGilholme]

Toda: Can you use the same ATF technique to test the piston rings? I don't know what the tollerance is like but it should hold fluid there if its in good nick right? and let it past the rings if its not???

[TODA AU]

Toda: Can you use the same ATF technique to test the piston rings? I don't know what the tollerance is like but it should hold fluid there if its in good nick right? and let it past the rings if its not???
Can't say for sure,
We'd pull the engine & check the ring lands.
As it's quite unusual to break just a ring with no other indication of damage...
Though the pistons appear to be in good condition, it could still have damage between the rings.

No harm in trying the leak down with the ATF,
Probably best to test it against a known good cylinder...
If they're the same I guess the issue is the head gasket...

What did that look like ?
Remember there was shiite under the oil cap

[tayl51601]

What did that look like ?
Remember there was shiite under the oil cap

Thats true i forgot about the crap under the oil cap.
The head gasket seemed fine, ill take a pic tonight but it looked alright to me.

With the pistons, there might be a slight leak but when i was cleaning them i filled the top with carby cleaner and they all reacted the same way, possibly lost a little bit of fluid but not very fast. Ill do a proper test with the ATF and see what happens.

How do i get the ATF out of the block though if it leaks? Can i clean it out with diesel somehow??

[TODA AU]

How do i get the ATF out of the block though if it leaks? Can i clean it out with diesel somehow??
You'd have to flush it all out.

[JasonGilholme]

Thanks Toda. Good info.


How do i get the ATF out of the block though if it leaks? Can i clean it out with diesel somehow??

If the fluid gets down into the block you'd have to pull it apart anyway as the rings are shot.

Check that head gasket thoroughly though. if your getting oil in your water then that's where its going to happen.

[tayl51601]

heres pics of the gasket:

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/8663/dsc00208dan.jpg

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2549/dsc00209bbq.jpg


And heres the two pistons i have filled with ATF to test if there is a leak:

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/9712/dsc00210d.jpg


btw the atf in the spark plug chambers is still full so its defs not the head.............

[CRXer]

have u tried putting a straight edge across the head & block yet?

[tayl51601]

have u tried putting a straight edge across the head & block yet?

not yet lol, probably should have been one of the first things to check.

Though i have to think back to what exactly was going on.
I had low compression on one piston, and it was smoking from the block mostly, and possibly a small amount from the head though that might have been normal.
I had crap in the oil cap, which i dont really understand if the head was sealed properly.

The low compression and smoking from the block to me seems like piston rings, but that wouldnt cause the paste like stuff in the oil cap.

Easy to solve the problem.............. K24 conversion :cool:

[tayl51601]

I got home late last night but i looked at the ATF in the pistons quickly and the levels havent dropped. So either the piston rings are fine or the test doesnt work lol.

Im just going to take the pistons out this weekend and change the rings any way, no more tests lol

[tayl51601]

Adrian is a natural genius lol he was right all along.......... Broken ring lands........

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/5122/dsc00212t.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/280/dsc00215m.jpg


Before i buy new pistons, i was probably going to go for CP Pistons but i wanted to ask you adrian. If i get stock compression 10.5:1 pistons normal size, do i still need to get a retune?? Im pretty shore i dont need to get the cylinders bored, they seem fine.

By the way, thanks everyone for all the help! It might be obvious i had no idea how a car is put together before i did this and i dont think i would have been able to do it without ozhonda lol so thanks!
Still got to put it all back together though!!!

[JasonGilholme]

good work man. :thumbsup:

nothing better then doing it yourself. Make sure you take your time and put her back together properly. The patience now will be beneficial for thousands of k's to come.

[IEVAQ8]

also, if the bore is okay, make sure u get it honed, or u hone it before putting in new pistons..........

regarding retune............. i would as u can mostlikely push it harder with stronger pistons.............. ;)

[tayl51601]

Ill just hone it myself lol im not taking out the bottom block

Keep in mind adrian tuned my car and hes in sydney lol plus its already running between 9 and 10psi and thats all i need :D

Better watch your pistons tom if you ever boost it up on the stock internals!! Just prooves sometimes you can be unlucky lol

[IEVAQ8]

just get someone to check over ur hone...........

adrian is the man at tuning, but i would definatly get it checked or re-tuned with new internals, unless u keep the exact same comp and size pistons.............

fingers crossed mine stays together and healthy

[tayl51601]

The piston size and comp is staying the same so it should be alright.
Im curious if it was actually the long trip down to sydney that caused this to happen

I just found out it wasnt just the 4th piston thats f**ked, 3rd piston had a crack in the top and the 2nd piston fell to peices when i took it out...

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/6690/dsc00216uiu.jpg

[IEVAQ8]

i dont see how the ong drive would have caused it, i would definatly get it retuned once done

[lil_foy]

i dont see how the ong drive would have caused it, i would definatly get it retuned once done

Maybe it wasnt tuned via the trip down?

[fatboyz39]

Wow pistons look sick. Detenation would of cause that.

[tayl51601]

i dont see how the ong drive would have caused it, i would definatly get it retuned once done


Maybe it wasnt tuned via the trip down?

Yea it wasnt tuned properly on the way down, was running pretty lean



Wow pistons look sick. Detenation would of cause that.

I still got no idea what would have caused it though, it could have been a few things.
Should be alright though with the new pistons in. I ordered some yesterday.
Im just getting CP's with stock compression and standard size, my cylinders are like mirrors so they are still in good condition!
Will only be getting them next week though because they had to come from america...... Got a full top and bottom end rebuild gasket kit thanks to Yonas on its way too :thumbsup:
And the head has been cleaned up in diesel, cleaned bottom block.......Will be like driving a new car......

[JasonGilholme]

Fresh cylinders should have visible machine marks in them shouldn't they?

where as glazed cylinders will have a mirror style look.

Can someone else confirm as its just what i would expect and have seen.

[tayl51601]

Damn lol i thought the mirror finish was a good thing

To get that fresh cylinder look just means a honing doesnt it?? Wouldnt mind doing that before the new pistons go in any way if i could get someone to give me a hand lol

Just out of curiosity what difference would it make having the cylinders honed compared to leaving them the way it is?? The pistons would still slide through smoothely and the rings would still stop any slight leaks whether its honed or not.

[tayl51601]

By the way congrats on getting your car on the ozhonda calender :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[onnos]

u want to hone it to help seat the rings in. and when u say it was lean u mean full throttle lean or lean all over. if u werent thrashing it on the way down and were driving it normally then being lean with no load wont break ring lands like u have. its usually a combination of aggressive ignition timing and or lean under full load that will break factory hooonda pistons

[JasonGilholme]

Damn lol i thought the mirror finish was a good thing

To get that fresh cylinder look just means a honing doesnt it?? Wouldnt mind doing that before the new pistons go in any way if i could get someone to give me a hand lol

Just out of curiosity what difference would it make having the cylinders honed compared to leaving them the way it is?? The pistons would still slide through smoothely and the rings would still stop any slight leaks whether its honed or not.

I've never done it before but i can't imagine it being too hard for someone who knows what they're doing. I doubt a mobile guy would be able to do a descent job though. It wouldn't be too hard to get the engine out of the bay seeing as though you've already pulled most of it apart. then you can take it to a proper shop.

Im not 100% sure if i'm correct, but from observing freshly built blocks they all have this "cross hatching" from the honing/boring being done.

AFAIK the honing helps seat the rings against the cylinder walls during the initial run in. Once again though, check with an engine builder.


By the way congrats on getting your car on the ozhonda calender :thumbsup::thumbsup:

thanks mate. :thumbsup:

[tayl51601]

I should be getting my pistons this week........hopefully......

Just want to check, what position should the pistons be in before i put the head back on so i know the timing is right??
I know piston no.1 and 4 have to be higher than the middle ones but do i turn the crank until they are perfectly inline with the top of the cylinder or is there a certain distance between the top of cylinder and top of pistons??

I thought i need to check because before i took the head off i got the camgears in the right position and when the head came off piston 1 and 4 where about 1.5 inches lower than the top of cylinder (can see it in pic of dirty pistons posted a few pages back)

[tayl51601]

Taken me a while to get all the tools but i got the head and everything back on last night.

Finished it all off this morning and started the car, it shat oil and coolant like crazy out the back of the head so obviously the head isnt sealing properly for some reason.
I have torqued all the bolts to 83Nm with new head gasket and everything.

I cant figure out why the head could possibly be leaking so much unless its damged, does anyone know why it could be leaking so bad??
Keep in mind i have made sure its all gone back together properly with the right torques and everything, and the torque wrench is brand new..............

[JasonGilholme]

did you torque then retorque the head bolts a few times? they stretch aparently and need to be done a few times to get the right torque reading.

[delsol9000rpms]

did you torque the head to 83nm and then carried out the angle torque aswell?

[TODA AU]

Taken me a while to get all the tools but i got the head and everything back on last night.

Finished it all off this morning and started the car, it shat oil and coolant like crazy out the back of the head so obviously the head isnt sealing properly for some reason.
I have torqued all the bolts to 83Nm with new head gasket and everything.

I cant figure out why the head could possibly be leaking so much unless its damged, does anyone know why it could be leaking so bad??
Keep in mind i have made sure its all gone back together properly with the right torques and everything, and the torque wrench is brand new..............

Slap yourself....
The head gasket is on up side down... :p

[tayl51601]

did you torque then retorque the head bolts a few times? they stretch aparently and need to be done a few times to get the right torque reading.

I took the cams off and everything straight after it happened and checked the head bolts and they were still all fine.


did you torque the head to 83nm and then carried out the angle torque aswell?

Yep 83nm, dont know what a angle torque is though..............


Slap yourself....
The head gasket is on up side down... :p

lol are you serious???
Ill flip it around and try again then lol.........

[Chr1s]

^ Sounds like you are learning alot. Good to see but just becareful!

[tayl51601]

^ Sounds like you are learning alot. Good to see but just becareful!

I am learining heaps, wont ever regret doing it..........

And i am an idiot lol, i just saw it says up on the head gasket and yea, i did put it upside down lol :o

[lil_foy]

Atleast it's nothing serious mate!
It's awesome to see people actually doing their own engine work (we assembled my brothers engine in our garage)
Major props to you mate :thumbsup:

[fatboyz39]

lol about HG. Silly mistake.

[tayl51601]

Atleast it's nothing serious mate!
It's awesome to see people actually doing their own engine work (we assembled my brothers engine in our garage)
Major props to you mate :thumbsup:

Thanks mate!
You have to have a lot of patience to do this by yourself with nothing but a service manual and the internet lol

Ive got the car running thank god, after putting the camshafts in upside down........lol im a bit of an upside down kid...........
Except i still cant drive it because the idol is stupidly high, it revs up n up n up until i switch the car off. I think its a leak somewhere in the intake manifold, missing bolt or hose..... But i cannot find out where the leak is, i have searched and searched but had no luck yet

At least its running now lol, its such a small problem its annoying i cant find it.

[fatboyz39]

^^vaccum leak.... put your hands over the throttle body (intake arm off) - if it idles then you have a vaccum leak somewhere.

Check if all the sensors are connected.

[IEVAQ8]

is it possible u havnt bleed the coolant system yet and it has an air lock in it???

[tayl51601]

^^vaccum leak.... put your hands over the throttle body (intake arm off) - if it idles then you have a vaccum leak somewhere.

Check if all the sensors are connected.

Ill have to try the hand over the throttle body, i have a boost guage though which will tell me straight away the pressure inside my intake manifold, didnt think to look at it last night.


is it possible u havnt bleed the coolant system yet and it has an air lock in it???

Anything is possible lol, i had the radiator cap off when i started the car, its how i usually bleed it lol. I thought if theres air in it when it starts it will escape through the top.

Ill have a look at my boost guage, if its not sitting at -20ish pressure then theres a leak

[tayl51601]

Its not a vacuum leak, i started the car again tonight and this time it revved a littler higher than i normally let it, it got to 4,500rpm and went back down then up then down and so on.
Initially i thought it might be the iacv but it does it even when its warm.

Is that because of a timing issue? The timing belt sounds like its a little squeaky too. Im probably going to take the cover off and recheck the timing again when i get time. Also i thought it might be a bet valve from when i tried to start it with the camshafts upside down?? Not too sure what to expect if i did have a bent valve.

Im at the point where im thinking, the cars back together and running, if its not a major issue i might just get a mechanic to finish it off. Therefore i know its safe too, seen that its my first time ever building a motor i wouldnt mind getting it finished off by an experienced mechanic, still saved about 5 grand at the end of the day and gained a heap of knowledge.

[tayl51601]

Checked the timing tonight, it was a bit out....... I think that was causing the squeak but its still revving crazy.
Timing is perfect now, much cleaner sound coming out of the engine but it still not driveable.
I think im going to take it in and get it finished off properly next week.......... I just hope its nothing major thats wrong..........

[B18cEG]

have you set ur timing belt perfectly? (middle line on the crank pulley to the casing marks and cams at tdc with the angle on the motor) also check for gasket leaks, spray some degreaser or wd40/crc with the engine running and see if it gets sucked in through a gasket, wd40 spraying a bit foamy is best. no matter what your gauge says there could still be a leak.

[tayl51601]

Its running perfectly now finally :thumbsup::thumbsup:

it was just a leak in the gasket between the IM and the head, another lesson learnt, make sure 100% off the old gasket is off before putting on the new one lol

[lil_foy]

Great to hear mate!
When I changed my i/m it was a big bastard to get the old gasket off haha.

Awesome to hear its all good again.

[IEVAQ8]

lol................ur a funny bloke greg

[PNS 001_EG3]

id like to thank you for entertaing me as i read this it mad me laugh and cry at the same time. very entertaining

[bummy]

Its running perfectly now finally :thumbsup::thumbsup:

it was just a leak in the gasket between the IM and the head, another lesson learnt, make sure 100% off the old gasket is off before putting on the new one lol

how did you find that was the problem?

[fatboyz39]

So it was a vaccum leak. hmm.

[tayl51601]

Great to hear mate!
When I changed my i/m it was a big bastard to get the old gasket off haha.

Awesome to hear its all good again.

Yea its a pain in the ass to get the old one off, thats why i gave up and left a bit on there lol


lol................ur a funny bloke greg

lol thanks tom


id like to thank you for entertaing me as i read this it mad me laugh and cry at the same time. very entertaining

Im glad i entertained a few people...... I didnt find it very entertaining though...... lol


how did you find that was the problem?

Had a feeling coz i knew there was a bit of the old gasket there, so i tightened up all the bolts and the more i tightened it the better it got so yea was obvious after that......
The guys at Ultra Tune down the road helped me out and gave me this sealant stuff to put around the gasket before you put it on to make sure its sealed properly.


So it was a vaccum leak. hmm.

Yep it was what you first thought it was lol