(NSW) registering B20vtec or B18C type r

[sinseven]

needing this to be cleared up for me please.

im on p plates (red) but next month getting greens.

im either getting a b20v or a b18c type r....

i currently have a d16a8 (1.6)...

with both those engines will i require a engineering certificate?

if so what do i have to fill out and what things should i be mindful of (brakes, suspension, etc)

[jeffreymui]

i thought u only go rta and get blue slip?

[sinseven]

beats me?

hence needing help as i no you can increase by 15% but after that you need report...

[vinnY]

b18 = blueslip
b20 = engineer

sure you're still legal to have that motor on your p's though?
afaik no engine mods, thats including plonking in a new motor

[sinseven]

Yeah as its not registered in my name lol.

But it'll be more stock for either engine just a few mods

[jdm_b16a]

All the information on modifications can be found on the NSW RTA website in this document:

VSI 06 Guidelines for light vehicle modifications Rev 2.1 Nov 07 (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi_06_-_guidelines_for_light_vehicle_modifications_nov_20 07.pdf)

But basically you need an Engineer's Certificate if the total capacity (in cc's) is more than three times (3x) the original tare mass (in kg) for 4 cylinder cars up to 1100kg.

So if your car weighs 1000kg you can transplant an engine up to 3 litres (3000cc). Look at your rego papers for the tare mass of your car. Or in the two examples you've given, both are increases from 1600cc - one to 1800cc, the other to 2000cc. Both under 3 Litres (or 3000cc)

You need to get a Change of Details form (http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/publicationsstatisticsforms/downloads/45070212.pdf) and take it to an Authorised Inspection Station. They will fill it out and also do a Blue Slip for you (basic safety tests like when you get a Pink Slip). Cost is about $50.00.

You take both to the RTA and they update their records. You will also need a bill of sale or receipt for the new engine to prove you have legally purchased it.

The Blue Slip inspection will look at the new engine and authorise it only if they are satisfied that your car is safe and conforms to all ADR rules (eg. have you upgraded the brakes to allow for the increase in power, have you retained emission controls). They may also look at suspension, steering, etc. Basically they have to decide if your car is roadworthy and safe with the mods you've done. In some cases they may require an Emissions Test and a Weighbridge Certificate (to see if your car is substantially heavier with the new engine, or the front/back weight ratio is out of whack). The latter two are usually requested only by an Engineer.

Hope this sets the record straight for everyone.

Peter

[sinseven]

ah thank you!
has helped alot understanding the shit laws in nsw!
cheers peter

[jdm_b16a]

You're not completely out of the woods since the VIS can insist you get an Engineer's Certification before they will issue a Blue Slip! This can apply to both the B18 and the B20 transplants. I know when I presented my EH Civic with the transplant from D16Y1 to B16A I had to impress upon the VIS that the B16A was the standard engine in Japan for this model and that I was simply 'optioning up' my car. It really depends on who you go to and how 'difficult' they want to be.

Peter

[02gzm]

In QLD p-platers are not allowed to drive cars that require modification approval. I'm not 100% familiar with how NSW P-plater rules work but I thought they were similar.

Read this link. (http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP3_Section_LA_Engines_3Feb2006.pdf)

It is the engine modification section of the national legislation for light vehicle construction and modification.

Section 1.1

MODIFICATIONS NOT REQUIRING CERTIFICATION

• Fitting a replacement new, used or reconditioned engine.
• Fitting a manufacturer’s optional engine for that same model vehicle.
• Fitting replacement original equipment (or equivalent) engine & exhaust components.

In all of the above cases, if the engine is modified, it must be certified under the relevant Approval Code.

Section 1.2

MODIFICATIONS REQUIRING CERTIFICATION UNDER LA APPROVAL CODES

• Fitting equivalent engines (within 20% of original power and engine weight).
• Fitting performance engines.
• Modifying engines and engine components.

I'm assuming from the D16A8 it's an EG civic or crx? So in relations to your average pre-95 Honda engine swap, the only engines not requireing certification are replacement engines of the same type or manufacturer optioned engines, i.e. another D-series engine. EG6's (and EF8, EF9, etc.) were never released in Australia so technically you aren't even meant to have an un-plated B16 in a pre-95 Honda as they should be coded as a LA1 modification (equivalent engine within 20% of original power and weight), or LA2 if it's jap spec. As was the case with jdm_b16a above.

Civic's never came out with either a B18C or a B20. And both of these engines are over 20% of the power output of a D16. So they are classified as performance engines under the legislation and require certification and a LA2 coded mod plate (same thing on the blue slip or whatever you guys call it down there).

Yes, your average cop may pass over an engine swap and not realise it didn't come like that from factory. But get an asshole, sent to the pits or pulled over by a department of transport inspector and it won't end well. And with the way that you P-platers are targetted these days it isn't worth the risk imo.

[jdm_b16a]

Well found 02gzm!

My VIS classified the B16A swap as an 'option' engine but I should have factored in that the original request for information was from a P-plater, which I'm not, so yeah, this info may supercede my posting.

The only way to be sure is speak to a VIS or Engineer - its no use talking to the RTA because on any given day you will get a different answer, which will only serve to confuse you!

Peter

[sinseven]

thanks for that 02gzm.

but for being p-plater i am not going to put the car down itll be under my fathers name if thatll help in any way....

[jdm_b16a]

thanks for that 02gzm.

but for being p-plater i am not going to put the car down itll be under my fathers name if thatll help in any way....

In that case I think you'll have no problems! Good luck!

Peter

[sinseven]

Thanks peter and cheers for all the information fellas

[02gzm]

thanks for that 02gzm.

but for being p-plater i am not going to put the car down itll be under my fathers name if thatll help in any way....

No probs. It's not a matter of who the car is registered under if that's what you meant. It's more the fact that P-platers aren't legally allowed to drive a car with a certified 'performance' engine swap.
GL though matey.

[sinseven]

What they can't see, they can't know ;)

[geeang]

What they can't see, they can't know ;)

If you get pulled over, they simply need to check the engine number against your registration and you'll be busted straight up (being a P-plater), or if it's engineered and under your dad's name they just need to check your registration to see that the car you're driving has an engineered engine, busted there too.

[sinseven]

Geeang destroyed my dream hahaha. But if I had stock internals then that'll work yeah?

[geeang]

Geeang destroyed my dream hahaha. But if I had stock internals then that'll work yeah?

Just going getting a transplant leaves you wide open for cops you ream you big time, doesn't matter what the internals are.

If you get a cop that's had a bad day, he'll do you over no matter what engine you transplant into your car (while on your P's).

I'd just advise you to wait it out and do it legit to save you any trouble.:thumbsup:

[sinseven]

Yeah that's true. Might just stay safe and stay away from all the hassles..thanks geeang.

Someone from ozhonda should become president! Then things will be better for p-platers......I hope lol!