Bolt-on Turbo kit Pro's & Con's?

[ian]

I've a stock B16A2 in my EM1 civic vtir coupe.

Does a bolt-on turbo kit from avoturbo (an example) literally just bolt-on to the stock engine?
Can this run without any internal modifications to the engine whatsoever?
I'd need a new ECU or piggy-back version and tune to finish it off, right?
Would this modification be worthwhile vs NA modifications?
What are the pro's and con's in going turbo from an NA car?

For an equal amount of money going turbo, would you be able to make this car go equally fast keeping it NA? I guess this is what I really want to know.

Your comments/advise would be appreciated. :thumbsup:

[shecomb]

No way would say $10g NA mods equate to the same power of a $10g turbo setup. Turbo is much more cost effective. That said, a kit from the US which is popular will have problems fitting to an AUDM car. The engine bays ARE different.

I don't know of any turbo kit which comes with good fuel management so YES to an aftermarket ECU. As far as boost level, depends on the quality of the setup plus the quality of your engine but you can run say 8psi on stock engines with good fuel setup

[Weq]

That said, a kit from the US which is popular will have problems fitting to an AUDM car. The engine bays ARE different.


So that means cause his VTiR is US built, they would fit perfect, yes :)

[shecomb]

So that means cause his VTiR is US built, they would fit perfect, yes :)

Only if his car is left hand drive. The air con and steering components are slightly different between left and right hand drives so a kit that keeps a/c from the US wont necessarily keep a/c on a AUDM car.

[imashy14u]

Cost wise, turbo will always out weigh N/A mods.

To ensure your engine survives the compressed air (especially on the B16) you will definitely need an upgraded fuel system with a programmable ECU to control it. But in the end, it is more cost effective for the amount of power that can be achieved.

I'd say go turbo! :thumbsup:

[z3lda]

if u bought a bolt on turbo kit from avo, then yes it will literally botl on. kit sells for about 4500. inc. manifold,turbo,pipin, cooler, extra injector and piggyback ecu. once u've nistalled it, get some pro to tune ya car. 8psi max and u wont need to change internals. if ur scared about turbo + high compression = detonation, then just get some 2mm head gaskets. that should lower ya compresioon

[DLO01]

Hey Guys & Gals,
I am pretty new here. I think all your questions are pretty much answered. I would just like to give you my experience with the Avo kits. I have a Gen 3 Crx and I have an Avo Stage II Turbo kit bolted on my B16A2. The kit is the same for the civic with slight mods to the intercooler mounts. The stage II kit is bolt straight on with no internal mods done to your motor. The kit comes with GT28R 320hp Garret B Bearing Turbo, decent size bar & plate FMIC, exhaust manifold, 2.5" stainless dump pipe to cat, 500cc injectors, 600hp fuel pump, rubber & mild steel piping, stand alone Link Ecu. It includes all other accesories clamps, bolts etc. Avo promise 135-145kw @ Wheels with 9psi boost with a good tuner (you exhaust system has to be upgraded).
Depends what you are after. If you are happy with that power then Id say go for it. I was told the turbo is good for 15psi?? A lot of people rubish the Link Ecu, but I can say 1st hand that I have not had any problems.
Hope this all helps. Would be good to meet all you guys sometime.

[ian]

fantastic! thanks everybody for your feedback (especially weq, who's cast some light into the myths of boosting). if there's any more input you'd like to add, i'd appreciate it. thanks again fellas!

[sheepo]

whats NA?

[DLO01]

whats NA?

NA = Normally Aspirated, ie not FI = Forced Induction

[ian]

...............or Naturally Aspirated

[z3lda]

non applicable

[pornstar]

DL001,

Just to clarify, your talking about a stage 3 kit. What does that cost? about 8k plus right? and that doesnt include install and tune?

Thanks

[N4CER]

While we're on this topic, does anyone know if that sorta kit is available for the d17z (2003 Civic Gli non-VTEC)? As I am interested in finding out more information (cost, engine modifications, etc...) about it.

[DLO01]

DL001,

Just to clarify, your talking about a stage 3 kit. What does that cost? about 8k plus right? and that doesnt include install and tune?

Thanks

Hey Pornstar, I have the Stage 2 kit. By memory the kit on its own was just over $6K. And thats right, it does not include install & tune. Install was just over $1K, then tuning costs.

[z3lda]

I like your avatar DLO01. :D

[ian]

if anyone's interested the avoturbo website is: www.avoturboworld.com

[DLO01]

I like your avatar DLO01. :D

Hey Z3lda, Sorry if it looks like I was copying your avatar. Its the one I use on Crx Australia.

[z3lda]

keep it. it looks cOol eheh

[DLO01]

keep it. it looks cOol eheh

I'll keep it! :D

[saboteur]

Has anyone got pics of the AVO kit installed? (intercooler without front bar on, manifold close up etc)

[pornstar]

it really isnt a good kit for the ,money.

[Lyle_Style]

most of those kits do not come with proper management, most come with shitty riseing rate fuel pressure regulators mostly made by vortech. best i would say is get a standalone management system and a decomp gasket because the b16's have such a high compression.

good luck mate

[BLKCRX]

do comp.. meh.. no need 2 de comp a b16 engine ;-)
run 7 - 9psi of boost with correct engine managerment n she will be fine all day every day.
Also you have 2 make sure you control boost correctly also !! half the engines i see "die" is due 2 a boost spike, the injectors running lean n bang she goes...

Regards James

[z3lda]

wat do u think about the turbo kits from avo james? any good or waste of money?

[BLKCRX]

These days I don’t see any point in buying any kit from anyone in the world, just go custom.

Get your self the best parts you can afford, period.
The best manifold with a good external wastegate, the largest turbo, the best engine management you can afford, good size injectors and a fuel pump, a nice custom intercooler with custom exhaust / cooler pipes. Yes going custom can be more expensive than buyin a cheap povo kit, but you truly get what you pay for, things are expensive for a reason. Having said that, if you read almost eveythin post on turbo kits / turbo’ing Honda you should see the general gist of “save your money” go for quality rather than buyin for the sake of buying.

As for what parts are the best.. well im bias there I would rather spend 10x the amount of money on a manifold that I know will work for ever, and make the most power ;) but that’s the kinda person I am simply nuffin but the best regardless of the cost.

Regards James

[TODA AU]

Hmmm...
Sorry James, but having been there & done that both ways...
I have to disagree with you on this one...
There is considerable merit to the use of a bolt-on turbo kit.
Not everyone has the budget to waste on top shelf this & top shelf that...
An AVO kit with appropriate additions to fuel & engine management systems offers really quite good bang for bucks...
If you want higher quality... The TRUST kit for example.. (for not much more expense), comes complete with an E-manage...
Also, since you're splitting hairs...
The intercooler the TRUST kit comes with, is not only bigger than yours, it actually looks good too... :p

[WPN.22R]

i say to hell with buyin a kit. instead of being charged the phenominal amount of 10k for a teeny tiny bolt on set up, ive now spent close to 10k with a complete forged, sleeved (and a whole lot of other stuff) engine, not to mention being able to run 20+psi and not just 5-9 psi from a kit set up.

my first set up cost me about 4-5k and it got me 150kw atw (standard internals) and that was me sourcing the parts and going from there.

my 22c ;)

[pornstar]

what times have you pulled wpn22r?

[panda[cRx]]

If you want higher quality... The TRUST kit for example.. (for not much more expense), comes complete with an E-manage...
Also, since you're splitting hairs...
The intercooler the TRUST kit comes with, is not only bigger than yours, it actually looks good too... :p

lol e-manage y0!!
i'm with andy, james and wpn.22r the kits arent worth the money.
you can source some great parts for even greater prices if u look around enough. i've also heard quite a few complaints about many of the cheaper kits available so if you choose to go the kit route be careful

on the other hand i think the amount someone else on this thread has spent on their setup is not worth the power result. nothing personal, just my 2c
i am by far a turbo expert but yeah like i said just my opinion :)

[Weq]

panda, what kits exaclty have caused complaints about what? Be precise.
I have seen the odd custom setup or 2 using badly designed manifolds and extra injectors. Just because something is 'custom' doesnt mean its good. On the other hand i have as seen badly designed bolton kits. Stuff doesnt meet up right, wrongly matched turbos etc.

In the end though, i would definatly take a kit/custom kit over a <10k turbo setup done by ur average workshop.

[WPN.22R]

i have spent some serious time on the net and phone to people in the U.S (cos they do the h22a more than anyone else) about how to do and what to do with my h22a set up. take that and talk to someone who is a reputable engine builder, and tell him what you want and have heard, then put 1+1 together and go from there.

thats what i did, and it worked out real good, took a while almost 2 and 1/2 years from scratch and the final ingredients are being applied now!

so yeah i went the hard way i think, but got a hell more out of it!

havent run yet pornstar, but soon..

-elee

[pornstar]

i actually didnt say that lawz, i think kits are good to certain extent bud, i prefer kits nowadays, but ill tell ya in person if u need to know y! :P

gl with the run wpn 22r :thumbsup:

agree with adrian at toda, kits are great for the everyday daily driven car. cost effective turbo solutions, but having said that not every kit is good, still gotta do homework there.

[ian]

I might have opened up "a can of worms"........a great big discussion on turbocharging.

If I can just say the main purpose of my car is day to day driving from point A to B (and occassionaly my girlfriend drives the car.........if she's a good girl). My knowledge in turbocharging is basic (i understand the concept). I'm still understanding the in's and out's. Therefore, I'm looking at the entry level of turbocharging - a turbo kit supplied with the relevant bits? I understand that a factory/stock engine (without internal modifications) can only handle so much boost.

This is a learning curve for me and I'm currently still picking up things from you guys (thanks)......but I was hoping to bolt on a kit myself with some help from experienced boosted friends. In the process I hope to learn even more about this process understand where you are all coming from. Being a leyman, I'm leaning towards a kit since all/most of the parts are supllied which have been tried & tested for the particular engine it was to boost (is this a correct assumption?).

Nevertheless, I'm still yet to decide whether to stay NA or cross the line and boost!

I've also heard that boosting is like a drug..........once you've tasted it.........you want more..........hehehehe

[pornstar]

Ian, if that is your goal and what your after, then get a good complete kit.

Custom is only good to a certain extent, that is, if u hvae time to do things in part and peice them together and u know what works well. Also mind you, custom endds up costinga fair bit more.

Fora daily driver, I recommend a turbo kit as a base, and you can work your way up there. You dont know what I used to run, but I can tell you, that my car was one of the more high powered hondas floating around, and it was the only one I knew of going around daily driven without any hassles. In short, a kit is a good cheap base to work from for your goals.

[poweredbyhonda]

So your saying my car doesn't get driven daily? At least mine has cold start and idles!

[pornstar]

yeah but compare the prices u f4g lol, and mine idled fine and cold started fine.

[poweredbyhonda]

The last time I saw it at night time when we did the coilovers it didnt sound too healthy! Mine kicked over straight away! G4y!!!!!! Good thing u went N/A again. N/a = G4y.

[pornstar]

lol ya f00l

[poweredbyhonda]

Hehehehehe want some duck?

[pornstar]

yeah ill give ya a gag too for free ;)