ED with D15B7 injected wiring help

[tseesinngwailo]

Hi All,

I have put a fuel injected D15B7 in my ED and have an ECU marked
37820-P06-Q50

i have a wiring loom from an EG sedan and have wired things up to see if I can get it running. I have not wired in the PGFM relay and according to the few diagrams I can find on the internetz regarding the P06 ECU, think I have everything needed.

I can get spark when the car cranks, and I know I have fuel pressure, but it just wont start, or run.

Has anyone done this conversion before? I am sure I have something not wired correctly, and I really need to get this car on the road.

Can anyone point me in the direction of some good wiring diagrams that show what pin is what on the ECU, and being connected to an auto, is there some wires i need to connect to make it think its in park etc so it will allow the engine to start?

Any help greatly appreciated.

Peter has already given up some of his time to help me today, and i went from no spark to now having spark (thanks Pete) but I am just stumped.

Plese help me ECU-Wiring legends!!!!!!!!

Also happy to provide BEER, FOOD, or whatever (some cash) if anyone wants to drop in and have a look what I am missing.

Cheers
Tseesinngwailo

[bennjamin]

dizzy wired correctly ?
Fuel pump primes....but does it get to the fuel rail ? (crack the fuel line at the fuel filter or at the rail itself slightly to see if its building pressure - fuel will piss out)
PS check this out

OBD1 ECU pinouts and colours....

http://www.phearable.net/tech/wiring/obd1.pin.schematics.gif

OBD1/2 dizzy wiring colours

http://media.photobucket.com/image/honda%20obd1%20wiring%20colours/CivicSpoon/distributors.jpg

[CRXer]

yes,check the link ben gave for ecu,
u will have to provide a ground input to pin B7 to fool the ecu into thinking shift lever is in park or neutral.
i take no responsibility for this method,i dont know if your carb shift lever will have the switch on it to do it properly,but u could maybe source a efi shift lever with switch from an ED or EG maybe if u choose to do it properly.

u may also need a brake switch input to ecu as well on D2(12V input) for it to start,just tap off the load side of the brake pedal switch to do it.

[bennjamin]

that..on a OBD1 auto to manual conversion you take the large single loom located right at the shifter - and directly connect the 2 x Large wires in teh middle , and then connect the reverse switch wires direct from the gearbox to the above mentioned loom to get your reverse lights working too - kinda looks like this
http://media.photobucket.com/image/honda%20civic%20auto%20to%20manual%20conversion/nbboy7/Fourms/Conversion4.jpg

[CRXer]

2 large wires are the starter motor feed ben,if the car cranks now then they must be connected or its a manual loom,or am i not reading that right & car is not even cranking?

if its not cranking then good start is what ben said to solve those 2 issues,but u'll still need the ecu ground input as well from shifter.

[tseesinngwailo]

Hey Guys, Thanks Ben and CRXer, at least I now have some better diagrams to look at..

I have temporarily connected everything, I am just trying to get the car to run before putting everything where it should go.

This is what I have, the loom on the engine has all the right plugs etc

http://gallery.2dingos.com.au/albums/RedFlash/P06_ecu.sized.jpg

The car cranks fine, it sounds as though its trying to catch, but just wont do it.

I know i have to connect it to the shifter and all, but want to hear it running before continuing.
I have spark, thats definate, not sure , but it looks strong enough.

Covered my driveway in oil before finding that there was no oil pressure sender installed AAGHH :( lucky it was old oil

http://gallery.2dingos.com.au/albums/RedFlash/disasterrrr.sized.jpg

I think I am maybe missing a ground or safety interlock maybe

I have connected the ground (to simulate shifter) but maybe its the wrong wire?

There is no solenoids on my gearbox, so i have a few plugs not connected, not sure if they should be joined to make a circuit?

At least with your help I am getting there.

Cheers
Tseesinngwailo

[bennjamin]

The only solenoid on the gearbox is the reverse light switch , won't stop the car from starting. Checked you haven't blown a fuse under the dash when trying grounds or other wires ?

[bennjamin]

Jason you need the work jus go over and help chris !

[jdm_b16a]

Checked you haven't blown a fuse under the dash when trying grounds or other wires ?

That's what I said! I don't know how many times I've had to search every fuse before replacing one or two when I've been doing the wiring.

Peter

PS. Have a look here Chris:

http://technet.ff-squad.com/

[ECU-MAN]

you need to make sure your ecu is wired like this

http://b16a2.kicks-ass.net/tech/gsrwiring1.gif
http://b16a2.kicks-ass.net/tech/gsrwiring2.gif

the above schematic is for a GSR so you ignore Vtec Pressure, VTEC solenoid, IAB, O2 Heater, PSP switch

if you wire it up with the above schematic you will get it running, If your ED was an auto to start with it will already have the Auto inhibiter on it.


also on your picture the top right shows 2 connectors and a bunck of loose wires, those loose wires are ment to go to a 3rd connector that connects to the engine at the LH Shock tower.

[jdm_b16a]

on your picture the top right shows 2 connectors and a bunch of loose wires, those loose wires are meant to go to a 3rd connector that connects to the engine at the LH Shock tower.

WHOOPS! Chris, did you cut that connector off when you removed the wiring at PnP? ECU-MAN, we had that schematic when Chris was at my house and we managed to trace the important wires but if that plug is missing ... well ...

Peter

[tseesinngwailo]

WHOOPS! Chris, did you cut that connector off when you removed the wiring at PnP? ECU-MAN, we had that schematic when Chris was at my house and we managed to trace the important wires but if that plug is missing ... well ...

Peter

well I might have :) I cut the loom that went towards the ignition and fusebox

i know that car is still there, so might go back and pull the rest of the loom, or try to work out whats missing, but thanks for the help guys, hopefully can get this car running :)

I will take some photos of everything and post, someone might spot my ballsup

Cheers
Chris

[tseesinngwailo]

That's what I said! I don't know how many times I've had to search every fuse before replacing one or two when I've been doing the wiring.

Peter

PS. Have a look here Chris:

http://technet.ff-squad.com/

Oh yes, I forgot to say, i did find the 50A fuse in the under-bonnet fuse box was blown, probably why I didnt have spark to begin with, and being an electrician for 15 years, I kicked myself for not looking at the fuses first!

[jdm_b16a]

Oh yes, I forgot to say, i did find the 50A fuse in the under-bonnet fuse box was blown, probably why I didnt have spark to begin with, and being an electrician for 15 years, I kicked myself for not looking at the fuses first!

There you go! Bl**dy electronics! why can't they make cars without wiring and all this electronic stuff?

Peter

[tseesinngwailo]

Jason you need the work jus go over and help chris !

YES!!! Jason, if you want to come and help I will pay haha :)

[ECU-MAN]

WHOOPS! Chris, did you cut that connector off when you removed the wiring at PnP? ECU-MAN, we had that schematic when Chris was at my house and we managed to trace the important wires but if that plug is missing ... well ...

Peter

just make sure the cabin loom has all the connectors to meet the engine loom at the LH Shock tower

[CRXer]

hard for me to say that i will have the answer,ive never looked at AT control before.
but i'll have a look if u want me too.

as far as starting the motor,since u dont have the main relay installed,im assuming u just have a constant ign supply to pump,or even manually switched maybe?
are u feeding a start signal to ecu? (which would also go to main relay if it was there,but not important to relay if u have pump going ok)

do u have power present at all the injectors with ign turned on(check power to idle valve while your there)?

i doubt u will need the g/box lockup solenoids present to start car,but u might have to plug them up to the loom & just ground & stash them somewhere to keep the ecu happy.

maybe u will have to simulate the presence of the interlock unit,to start car(i doubt this,but hey,could be wrong),although considering u can release the shift lever manually if interlock fails,then u would doubt it is needed to start car.

again,check u have brake pedal input to ecu as well,interlock wont release in some cars if brake pedal not pushed(also if throttle is pressed),so maybe ecu needs to see brake before it will let u start,although could be wrong again,cos u wouldnt be able to clear a flooded motor to start if ecu started imposing restrictions like no throttle etc.

u might have to end up converting the ecu to manual & even chipping it to run smooth with the non-electric g/box or something along those lines. at least that would remove all the AT start restrictions/missing solenoid faults etc.

wow,id prob bail now & head to the WTB section for a MT & a clutch pedal

[tseesinngwailo]

Thanks for the info CRXer,
I want to keep it as an auto, so will keep looking, I am sure i just missed a connection or 2. If you can spare some time, I would appreciate it

Its NOT currently loomed up in the car, this is because I want it running first before i wire it into the car, i think this is easier than chcuking it all in and then troubleshooting missing connections.
The fuel pump is supplied by a direct fuse and wire for now until i wire the PGMFI relay up, again, all done to test everything before installation

ECU-Man, regarding the loom, I have a complete loom from the ECU to the shock tower connectors (3 plugs) on the passenger side, and on the drivers side I have 2 plugs which one wire at least is the constant +ve to the ignitor, and i think some of the other pins are just for the dash, not sure, but from what I can work out, i have everything from the ECU to the distributor and injectors.
One question though, when I run the pump, i am sure i can hear/feel fuel flow through the rail, and then into the return, i thought it should build pressure and the return only operates as needed?
Cheers
Chris

[CRXer]

is the 3rd plug on the drivers side there? ie the junction connector(or junction box for sparkies lol) joining all the yellow/black power for injectors,idle valve,O2 there?

fuel return will be in effect at idle,ie high vac,as reg bleeds pressure off the rail to account for pressure diff to manifold pressure,not sure how much return u will get at wot,ie atmo manifold pressure,but i assume very little.

try the screwdriver stethoscope method on the injectors & see if u can hear them clicking while cranking.

[bennjamin]

PS possible the ICM or coil on the dizzy also maybe faulty (IE weak) - also what is the dizzy manually set at ? try retarding it slightly by hand to see if that catches and cranks.
Also , got the spark leads on the right parts of the dizzy ?

[CRXer]

yeh lead order would be good thing to get right lol
if u have fiddled the dizzy,prob try advancing instead as the ecu pulls a heap of retard on cranking anyway,but it does depend where u have it at present anyway,whether it needs ret or adv...

[bennjamin]

that above -

another dumb thing....changed spark plugs Chris ? Get some new NGK coppers and see if that helps.

[CRXer]

not so dumb ben,wet plugs dont help due to all the cranking

[bennjamin]

not so dumb ben,wet plugs dont help due to all the cranking

Its dumb because its usually the last thing people check and by then its too late. Yes , if they are wet the engine will never start.
Chris , take out plugs , disconnect dizzy + fuel pump and crank for abit to vent excess vapour/circulate. get brand new plugs in , retighten everything , apply WOT and try to start again.

[tseesinngwailo]

Thanks for all the support guys, I will take some photos tonight to show you the setup, and yes, i have played around with the dizzy to see if different position changes anything. Plugs looked OK (dry from memory), but maybe i will get some new ones.
Now, interesting question..
I have spark when its cranking right, so if there was something that wasnt connected like the Park switch, wouldnt it not give spark when cranking? as I thought the ECU controls the firing of the coil? just a thought
Jason, maybe you DO have to come over :)
will have another play tonight, see what happens
Cheers
Chris

[CRXer]

u'll prob find ecu will just fuel cut only if no park switch/whatever input,but hey,i could be wrong again lol.
see if u can hear injectors while cranking

just pm me if u want me to have a look

[ECU-MAN]

Park Neutral Switch only kills the starter motor,

If all is well it should fire. You really need to wire up the main relay as it feeds power to the injectors and ECU as well as the pump.

[tseesinngwailo]

Hey All, SUCCESS!!!!! well sort of...

I found the main issue I think, it was from one of the drivers side plugs, the +ve feed to the injectors! had some issues with the PGFM relay as the numbers seemed to be different on the bottom compared to wire colours, my relay was from a Prelude I think, if that makes a difference..

Problem 1: it idles, but keeps going up and down like its trying to decide where to sit, like someone was tapping the acc pedal constantly, but if you push down on the pedal it revs up very smoothly, so maybe i am still missing some sensor wiring?

Problem 2: and this is a big one...
After running for a short time, it started putting thick oily smoke out the exhaust, not a little bit, but the sort of thing James Bond uses to crash the cars chasing him, it covered my entire backyard and smells like burning oil...

Any ideas as to how oil is geiing into my cylinders? as it doesnt seem like a bad air/fuel mix.

hang on, just as I write this, remembered my fuel might be dirty as i think a litre from my gerrycan was 2 stroke mix, hope to god its all it is, will drain the tank and try again

Any ideas on how to clean the tank

Otherwise, I may have a dud engine.. at which point I will scream :(

Thanks for everyones help, I am not out of the woods yet, but at least the engine started, very happy

Chris

[bennjamin]

2 stroke mix ? thats got oil in it son. Surprised it starts at all.....THAT is something you need to address ASAP lol. Put some decent 91 RON in it asap.

[tseesinngwailo]

Yeah, know now its probably the cause of the intense smoke, just didnt think of it as i needed a gerrycan in a hurry, will know once i drain the tank and start again. It was beautiful to hear the engine running, almost there lol!

[jdm_b16a]

Problem 1: it idles, but keeps going up and down like its trying to decide where to sit, like someone was tapping the acc pedal constantly, but if you push down on the pedal it revs up very smoothly, so maybe i am still missing some sensor wiring?

Probably a vacuum leak somewhere. If the engine is 'hunting' then you have a leak so check all vacuum hoses, everywhere. I had a similar issue when I did the B16A conversion and found a vacuum line not connected at the back of the inlet manifold.

Peter

[ECU-MAN]

check the ECU for codes now, and make sure it runs with no fault codes.

two stroke will make the engine smoke, also if ur last engine blew then the exhaust could be filled with oil or coolant and cause the smoke. a nice drive will fix it,

you will want to drain the fuel tank to get rid of the two stroke fuel.

[tseesinngwailo]

check the ECU for codes now, and make sure it runs with no fault codes.

two stroke will make the engine smoke, also if ur last engine blew then the exhaust could be filled with oil or coolant and cause the smoke. a nice drive will fix it,

you will want to drain the fuel tank to get rid of the two stroke fuel.

I have drained the tank, and put Shell Vmax or whatever its called, the smoke is less, but as you say probably needs a good run, will be concentrating mounting the ECU (i have to drill a hole in the firewall for the loom) and putting the wires where they need to be.

I have an issue with the PGFM relay, the numbers dont seem to correspond with my diagrams, did Honda use different pins between models?

[CRXer]

the starter input pin changed positions between obd0 & obd1 relays or there abouts.

the rest of the pins are the same position but just different number layout.

plugs wont fit between relays either,u have to repin matching plug onto the car loom.

put up a pic of which relay u have.

[ECU-MAN]

the numbers under the relay dont match what is in the schematic

you have to either figure out the relay or I can give you a brake down of the relay pins

[tseesinngwailo]

Thanks Guys, will post some pictures tonight, should hopefully have the loom mounted and ECU inside the car by the weekend, then will wire things up properly.

Desperately need this registered within the coming week

I really appreciate the help and advice

Cheers
Chris

[tseesinngwailo]

Here are the pics of my relay

http://gallery.2dingos.com.au/albums/RedFlash/PGFM_Relay01.sized.jpg

http://gallery.2dingos.com.au/albums/RedFlash/PGFM_Relay02.sized.jpg

[tseesinngwailo]

Hi All,

I now have 2 PGMFI relays

http://gallery.2dingos.com.au/albums/RedFlash/PGFM_relays1.sized.jpg

http://gallery.2dingos.com.au/albums/RedFlash/PGFM_Relays2.sized.jpg

They both appear to have the same numbering on the pins (and location) but can anyone give me a good diagram to show what wires should go where? I think 2 of the pins have 2 wires each off them. I am not sure if these have different connections to the numbers on each relay

Thanks
Chris

[ECU-MAN]

http://b16a2.kicks-ass.net/tech/mainPGMFIrelay.doc

[tseesinngwailo]

Thanks ECU-Man, I am hoping that will get me running correctly.

Now, one other thing (part of many i spose) my diagrams show the wires for the alternator running to the ECU, the current wiring does not (original ED) can I paralel them up? as in does the ECU need them for anything? or should i wire them up, and then will the ECU give me the charge light on the dash? same goes for the oil pressure wire

Actually, my schematic doesnt match up at all, your doc refers to a schematic, do you have this as well so i can match up what i have with what your schematic shows?

If i sound rambling, will repost a clearer idea of my issue in the morning

Cheers
Chris

[ECU-MAN]

I posted the Schematic for you in this thread already

[tseesinngwailo]

I posted the Schematic for you in this thread already

Ahh, I was sure that was the diagram I printed out, maybe it was another i had, anyway, will try doing this tonight, need the car running again.

So, in regards to my other question, do I need to wire the alternator etc to the ECU, rather than use the current connections from the original ED loom?

Thanks
Chris

[CRXer]

the wire u already have for alternator is strictly for the charge light on cluster.
the other 2 wires from alt<>ecu are, signal to ecu & control to alternator.
they are just fancy little economy & idle functions.

whether the alt will charge without the 2 wires connected im not entirely sure as the ecu grounds the control wire when it seeks to fully reduce the charging rate of the alt & obviously it needs the signal to know exactly what to do anyway.

i think presence of an ELD input is needed to fully make use of these functions,but in any case for the sake of just running 2 wires from alt<>ecu thru the firewall,why not hook them up,not exactly a shitload of extra work.

what is the loom layout u intend to use,ie are u using the stock engine harness & are u changing the main harness at all?

see if this helps with your main relay....

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g268/CRXer/PGFM_Relays2sized.jpg

[tseesinngwailo]

To CRXer and ECUMan, you guys are legendary, with a bit of luck the car will be running again in the next day or so (realised tonight is out due to prepping for some home concreting needed dammit)

I currently have the original loom still running to the starter motor, and alternator, as I figured that was easier, maybe after i get rego, i can slowly work on a plan to wire everything more sensibly.

The diagrams that ECU-Man provided show a lot of connections to the ECU that I was not sure if needed, as it even seems to control the lights for the auto transmission indicators.

You mentioned wiring the alt up to the ECU, is that in parallel with the original loom wires? and the same goes for oil pressure? as at the moment i have the oil pressure wire going to the ECU, not the dash

Cheers
Chris

[CRXer]

the easiest way out is too use the engine loom that came with the motor.
then if u extract all the wires from the obd1 loom u have that go from the passenger side shock tower plugs to the ecu & just feed them thru the firewall,then more than half of your motor wiring is done in about an hour with factory wiring reliability(no cuts or joins).
the drivers side plugs coming off the motor can be adapted to the original loom easy enough to complete the wiring.
then u just need to run an alternator feed to the fuse box which is on different side in ED.
& obviously arrange some power for mainrelay/ecu/fuel pump under the drivers side dash somewhere.

u will not need to feed any auto g/box stuff to the ecu,since u have it started & that input wasnt needed,the rest of the gearbox is just going to be running hydraulically as originally it did.
how well or smooth it will idle & shift in this configuration,i wouldnt have a clue,but i guess u will find out.

no the alt wires are not in parallel with the ED wire,as i said that one wire is just for the charge light & charge light only,if u install the wire looms as i laid out above then the alt wires will be done to the ecu in any case.

as for the oil pressure,assuming u dont mean power/steer oil pressure than the only other oil pressure wiring u have is the oil pressure switch & this goes only to the dash indicator light,only oilp pressure signal u will be sending to ecu will be power/steer & since u prob dont have the switch installed in the power/steer higher pressure line than u will not be wiring it.
just ground the power/steer input pin to ecu to one of the ground wires at the ecu,it will tell the ecu u dont have any power/steer pressure happening,so idle will be as normal,but may drop a fair bit if u are stationary & turning the wheel(thats if u install power/steer in any case)

[CRXer]

actually i just contradicted myself,
u might have to run dummy connections to the ecu for the transmission lock-up controls to keep the ecu happy & code free or convert the ecu to manual.

[tseesinngwailo]

OK, what I have so far.
I got the D15B7 with complete Engine loom
I have now got a loom from engine bay (3 plugs on passenger side) with fusebox to the ECU from an EG. so that loom runs inside the car now, and I know that with the diagrams you guys posted, I can wire the PGFM relay and ECU up
On the drivers side, I have the 2 plugs from the engine loom, I know on this one is the tacho, injectors +ve, and +ve for the ignition coil.
I was going to leave the original engine bay loom as it already has starter motor, alternator, oil press and water temp wiring
My main concern is what the ECU needs as a minimum to run, I don't have Peter's patience to strip the whole lot and wire from scratch, it would kill me haha
I was hoping I could get rid of the EG engine bay fusebox, as the aircon and radiator fans are all supplied from the original fusebox, dont want doubles if I can avoid it.
There is an ECU fuse in the original fusebox, it just doesnt have a wire going to anywhere, so was going to use that as my ECU supply
Hopefully in the next day or so, when its running, I can work out what is needed to finish it all
Cheers
Chris

[CRXer]

yes,dump the EG fusebox,theres no need for it,all your really adding to the power distribution in the car,is an EFI supply(x2) & a fuel pump supply,why go over complicating things for simple 3 additional circuits.

as i said,just start by unwrapping the EG car loom between the 3 passenger side plugs & the ECU & then just seperate that wiring from the rest of the loom(there will be a coupla minor teeoffs,such as SCS & Datalink plugs,but nothing overly confusing).
then depin the ecu plugs & u can pull all the wiring thru the firewall.
repin the ecu plugs & all passenger side is then finished.

most of the driver side plugs is just dash indicator lights/gauge/reverse lights/power distribution/etc.not exactly fragile stuff,so a bit of chop & join there is nothing to be scared of.

hardest bit will be just wiring in the main relay & distributing power to & from it,not exactly overwhelming either.

& yes,just pickup that spare ecu fuse slot for the main relay supply & tap off a back-up supply for ecu from the hazard light switch supply.

[jdm_b16a]

CRXer, you are welcome 'round my place anytime!

:cool:

Peter

[CRXer]

gee,i'd hate to spoil your fun peter,u seem determined to work it all out for yourself,i admire that determination.

but,if things get really desperate,before u kick in one of those nice shiny blue panels,consider the PM option,u know where to find me.

[tseesinngwailo]

Hey, maybe I should just keep my car at Peters, the Crxer and ECUman can come over and have lots of fun :) Peters place can become the "hiding the car from the wife" workshop, and we can have BBQ's, drinks, welding, sandblasting, I can see this being full of win! even better I can just tell my wife I am going over to Peters to do some computer work!

[ECU-MAN]

sounds good

[jdm_b16a]

Hey, maybe I should just keep my car at Peters, the Crxer and ECUman can come over and have lots of fun :) Peters place can become the "hiding the car from the wife" workshop, and we can have BBQ's, drinks, welding, sandblasting, I can see this being full of win! even better I can just tell my wife I am going over to Peters to do some computer work!

The first part sounds OK Chris. However, as I have only just in recent years finally overcome my wife's blessed irritation with my car racing, painting, engine swapping, etc I think making me any party to "wife deception" would not sit well. But sounds great all the same. Contrary to what must be 'popular opinion' I don't really get away with all this stuff without there being a tradeoff, which usually sees me having to do renovations, house painting, and domestic duties.

Peter

[tseesinngwailo]

Hi All,

Well, the wiring was going well thanks to Peter letting me look a a loom and fusebox to work out where the starter signal attached to..

I got everything wired up, and i could start the car using the key, the PGFM relay was working perfectly, and you could hear the pump prime then turn off before actually starting, and the engine stopped correctly when turning the key to off.

At this point, the large black with yello stripe wire from the ignition coil was connected directly to the battery terminal, and I spotted there was the same wire on the original loom, and I thought "Hey, perfect supply" and connected it to the ignition coil.

Then I started the car again, it ran for maybe 2 seconds and then sputtered to death..

Now it wont start, and the PGFM relay doesnt power the fuel pump, I have checked fuses and wiring, all seems like I had it, and i replaced the black/yellow wire back to the battery as it was the only change I had made, but now go, car cranks and nothing

Any ideas what I have broken? is there a chance i killed the ECU?

I was so close dammit
Tseesinngwailo

[CRXer]

do u have multimeter?

so main relay not even clicking upon ignition key on?

basically test for power & grounds first to ecu via main relay

[tseesinngwailo]

do u have multimeter?

so main relay not even clicking upon ignition key on?

basically test for power & grounds first to ecu via main relay

I can get the click when the ign is on IG2 (well marked II on the keyswitch)

if I pull the fuse out that i have between IG2 and pin 5 on the PGFM relay, it clicks off, but it doesnt sound as loud as i first remember.

I am worried i have killed the ECU somehow, or maybe there is a fuse somewhere i have missed. The fuel pump is definately not coming on, and before my changes, it all was perfect

[CRXer]

when u remove pin 5 it only turns off one relay,theres 2 relays inside main relay,so thats why its not as loud.

so is there power on pin1 at all times,with multimeter?

[tseesinngwailo]

Yes, I am sure it had 12V at all times, but I cant totally be sure, gave up again tonight when it was cold and dark, but on a good note, I gave the fuel pump a direct +12v and the car started and ran OK, so at this point I think maybe the PGMFI relay has an issue, I pulled it apart, but cant see any bad solder joins, so will try and see if i can get it to work with some direct 12V to the pins.

I am wondering if the resistor between the main relay, and the fuel pump relay has blown, its the only reason apart from the ECU that i can see on the diagram that would stop things, or the relay coil has an issue maybe

I might try using my other relay, which is lucky i have a spare, though slightly different
OBD0, not OBD1

Wish me luck, and thanks again for the help, I think it will be a long time before I attempt this again.

Still hoping the relay is the issue and not the ECU

[CRXer]

in that case just check wire from ecu to pin8 goes to ground for 2secs when u turn ignition on,make sure it also goes to ground when cranking & motor running..
if it does then ecu is ok.

u will then prob find a dry joint on the fuel pump relay coil terminal on the positive side.
reflow the solder.

was a start(crank) signal wired to pin6 & ecu from the ign switch?

[jdm_b16a]

Chris, check this site out for lots of useful information on relays, testing circuits, alarms, etc.

http://causeforalarm.thecarthing.com/version7/index.html

Peter

[tseesinngwailo]

Chris, check this site out for lots of useful information on relays, testing circuits, alarms, etc.

http://causeforalarm.thecarthing.com/version7/index.html

Peter

Thanks Peter, I did get it working again, and YES CRXER, looks like there may have been a bad solder joint on the relay, i pulled the top off it and re-soldered all the connections, and tried again at midnight, this time i could hear the pump prime, so I will try and start the car again when I get home tonight.

Does anyone know if I can still use that original ignition coil feed that comes out from the firewall (the thick black\yellow stripe wire) to feed my current ignition coil? I would have liked to use this as I know it is switched by the ignition switch. (there wouldnt be a resistor anywhere for that? I rememebr all my old cars having one)

Cheers
Tseesinngwailo

[ECU-MAN]

yes you can

as long as i has 12v then the IGN is on POS II and not on POS I you will be fine

[jdm_b16a]

Here's an interesting read from that website (http://causeforalarm.thecarthing.com/3-stage_VTEC/index.html)Chris:

Charcoal Canister

"The OBD1 charcoal canisters have three hoses on top while the OBD2 canisters only have two. The OBD2 motors lack the vacuum hose on the throttle body for the third hose. So I got a 96-01 Acura Integra charcoal canister. It is similar to the 96-00 Civic canister except that it has a larger capacity. Either canister slides right into your firewall mount and fits the lower hose. The lines on top of the canisters are marked "tank" and "PCV" (in this case "PCV" stands for "purge control valve"). The "tank" hose goes to the fuel line on the firewall and the "pcv" hose goes to the purge control valve in the center of the intake manifold. I wired this valve to the wiring for the old purge control valve, but unfortunately the OBD1 ECU doesn't control it correctly and you will get a surging idle. The AEM EMS will have no trouble controlling it. If you're converting your car to OBD2 and using the rare P2J 3 Stage VTEC ECU, then of course you'll want to use the OBD2 Purge Control Valve."

Might be the answer to your idle problem???

Peter

[tseesinngwailo]

I am sure i have the right IACV, but maybe its dirty, or i got the hoses wrong? and my ECU is OBD1, its another thing to look at..

So ECU_MAN, that black/yellow stripe cable should just go to the IG II switch? if thats the case then i will connect it back up, i think cause the car died pretty much after connecting it, it made me think i blew the ECU up..
will put an inline fuse too i think
Cheers
Chris

[ECU-MAN]

a fuse would be a good idea, Im pretty sure its fused from the cabin fues box.

[tseesinngwailo]

a fuse would be a good idea, Im pretty sure its fused from the cabin fues box.
Cool, have got an inline fuse holder with 4mm cable pre-attached, should handle the current..

My only remaining issue now seems to be idling, when first starting the car, it runs for may 20 to 30 seconds, then starts the fast hunting, if I can this weekend, will trace the IACV wiring and make sure it goes where it should.

Cheers
Chris

[ECU-MAN]

have you wired up the MIL and ensured you have no codes ?

[tseesinngwailo]

have you wired up the MIL and ensured you have no codes ?

Not yet, but think that sounds like a great idea, rather than fumbling on

cheers
Chris

[ECU-MAN]

thats right.

dont guess and think its done right and try to fix problems caused by things not wired correctly