Bought car with money owed on it!

[curtis265]

Sorry if this has been asked before. I didn't know what to type in the search.

Anyway, My workmate bought a Camry Sportivo for 7k. Too cheap. Too good to be true, and indeed it was.

Unfortunately, he wasn't cluey enough to do a REVS check on the car (he's a china fob), and just yesterday, Police came to reposess the car from him. The previous owner had 12k still owing on the car.

What are the options he has left? Has he completely lost the 7k that he got jipped of when buying the car?

[hotdc2]

without getting into technicalities and getting your hopes up for no reason, it is very likely he will never see that $7g again.

If he can afford it, try to buy the car back (eg pay out the remaining amount).. otherwise there's not much else you can do

[mrwillz]

in hot water yo

[curtis265]

Yeah that's what i'm suspecting. He said he'll try sue the guy but i'm going to convince him out of wasting more money. it's just htat 12g is a lot to pay out...

Wht does the government have the right to reposess it anyway?

And, can someone else buy that sportivo for 12k?

[namski]

You know where he lives, just go back there.

[beeza]

****in low scum.

[SiReal]

it was the buyers fault to not use his resources around him to get a good clean sale. its not the sellers fault. sure a little dodgy, and shouldve told him.

[sab0r]

wen he bought it he must have had the details etc. go 2 his house n get 7g back

[curtis265]

Yeh that's what i'm thinking. Go get the money back. or at least sort out some sort of deal to get the car back. $12k is a lot to just cough up.

if not then find something swingable...

[bennjamin]

stop with the hints of violence guys n girls.


Anyway , if the car has been repo'd , then there is nothing (easy legally) he can do. He CAN pay out the 12k.....and get it back , then sell or whatever. But he should of done a REVS beforehand and even purchased a REVS certificate that prevents the car from been repo'd. Live and learn.

[curtis265]

ahh how terrible, a $7000 mistake :(. That's what happens to fobs when they don't know too much :(

I knew there was nothing he could do. U cud confront the guy, but wuts he gonna do? Chase you out with a baseball bat....?

Bennjamin, what did u ymean by the REVS certificate? If money's owed on it, is the REVS cert going to stop the repo?

[bennjamin]

Bennjamin, what did u ymean by the REVS certificate? If money's owed on it, is the REVS cert going to stop the repo?


For a fee of $13.80 a REVS Search Certificate, which gives you conditional legal protection against repossession due to the previous owner's unpaid debt, is available to you for purchase online. You can also purchase a certificate from the REVS telephone service on 13 32 20 Monday to Saturday. Telephone service hours are, weekdays from 8:30am to 5pm and Saturdays from 9am to 2pm.


http://www.revs.nsw.gov.au/

I suggest you get your friend to contact http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/
to see where he stands (legally).

DO NOT threaten , harass or otherwise approach the person who sold in a forceful way - it could end in a possible assault against your friend. Get your facts right first and see where you both stand.

[tps09]

what i rkn is, pay out the remaining , get the car back and then sell it!




Gl

[curtis265]

what i rkn is, pay out the remaining , get the car back and then sell it!

Gl
That's what i was thinking... but still it's 12k due on the car, and the car is worth about 15 anyway so he'd cut losses to about 4k.. :(


http://www.revs.nsw.gov.au/

I suggest you get your friend to contact http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/
to see where he stands (legally).

DO NOT threaten , harass or otherwise approach the person who sold in a forceful way - it could end in a possible assault against your friend. Get your facts right first and see where you both stand.

Is there someone to contact regarding this for WA, not NSW? Wow i didn't know that a revs cert is enough to prevent reposession. So really i could (if the opportunity came) go buy an expensive car, for a cheap price from a dodgy seller, buy a revs cert, and then i'd be protected from a repo :S?

Contacting the dodgy seller doesn't seem wise at all at this stage.

[Chriskoss]

Bennjamin just wondering what does fair trading have to do with an individual person, dont they cover businesses and customers against stuff like this, if its between two people, not sure much can be done. The seller can just claim he said there was 12k owing and the buyer had 2 pay it and that the buyer agree'd.. unless buyer takes him to court and has evidence (such as the original ad for the car) that states nothing was owing on the car..

[bennjamin]

Bennjamin just wondering what does fair trading have to do with an individual person, dont they cover businesses and customers against stuff like this, if its between two people, not sure much can be done. The seller can just claim he said there was 12k owing and the buyer had 2 pay it and that the buyer agree'd.. unless buyer takes him to court and has evidence (such as the original ad for the car) that states nothing was owing on the car..

good point , but atleast i am trying to help out with links.

Better to suggest (instead of nit picking) to seek legal advice such as a local Solicitor !

[curtis265]

^hahahahaha. Fair enough :).

I thnik i might advise him to phone REVS and see what he can do.

NOOB QUESTION: What association REVS exactly, and what do they do?

[bennjamin]

NOOB QUESTION: What association REVS exactly, and what do they do?
REVS is a business service provided by the NSW Office of Fair Trading which can tell you if a motor vehicle or boat you are thinking of buying is carrying a debt.



To ensure the accuracy of the vehicle or boat identifiers you should obtain the details from the vehicle or boat itself and compare them with the details on the registration papers.

For a fee of $13.80 a REVS Search Certificate, which gives you conditional legal protection against repossession due to the previous owner's unpaid debt, is available to you for purchase online. You can also purchase a certificate from the REVS telephone service on 13 32 20 Monday to Saturday. Telephone service hours are, weekdays from 8:30am to 5pm and Saturdays from 9am to 2pm.

[defect]

your should cough up the 12k, buy it back then sell it.
not much he can do besides that

[curtis265]

but he'd buy the car for wek, and probably sell it for about 13. Is it worth it..?

[sangyz]

paying it off then selling it is the best option. Better then losing the full 7g's true? get back what he can then he can start saving again or look for something else. Doubt he will commit the same mistake again.

[curtis265]

^ still, for a 1k difference it might not be worth it. See how he feels about it i guess.

[Terry_GT-R34]

ahh how terrible, a $7000 mistake :(. That's what happens to fobs when they don't know too much :(


Bennjamin, what did u ymean by the REVS certificate? If money's owed on it, is the REVS cert going to stop the repo?

Point #1:- The lending institution now owns the car. It does NOT want to be in the business of owning a car! If your friend or his solicitor can find out what institution it is, he can possibly fork out the payout figure over and above the $7K (rather than lose the $7K)

Point #2:- If you ever ring REVS and find out that there is "No Interest" in that vehicle it is safe to buy. But you're still NOT covered if the owner takes out a loan against that vehicle on the day you rock up with the moolah unless you pay for a "REVS Certificate" (which doesn't cost very much for that peace of mind). A Private Sale = Caveat Emptor which basically means, "Let The Buyer Beware".

[Chriskoss]

Exactly right terry

You could pay 500k for a ferrari off a private seller.. drive it down the street and it blows up, and you wont be able to do squat about it in regards 2 having the seller give your money back or what have you..

On the other hand though, this guy paid 7k for the car, thinking the transaction was a complete and final sale, to find out further action has to be taken to claim ownership of the car.. and in saying that I think Curtis, your friend should take him to court, may cost 2k in court costs or whatever, but better than loosing 7k, correct?

[StrawberryFace]

dirty poor bloke

[fabezzz]

When i bought my car i knew the guy owed money on it so i wrote a check to nrma to pay his debt off that he owed and then he gave me the car.

[curtis265]

Exactly right terry

You could pay 500k for a ferrari off a private seller.. drive it down the street and it blows up, and you wont be able to do squat about it in regards 2 having the seller give your money back or what have you..

On the other hand though, this guy paid 7k for the car, thinking the transaction was a complete and final sale, to find out further action has to be taken to claim ownership of the car.. and in saying that I think Curtis, your friend should take him to court, may cost 2k in court costs or whatever, but better than loosing 7k, correct?

You are quite right. I'm thikning the same thing, but is it likely he'll win? He was sold a car by a dodgy seller, but it was his own lack of knowledge which caused this entire ordeal. He's never heard of REVS before.

I personally can't see a grounds for suing the dodgy guy. I dont know if that guy is still here or not too.

[Chriskoss]

Exactly what i was going to say too..

He could of fled the country by now, or another state and changed numbers or whatever, and in that case, even though your friend has his name and what not, the cops wont do much about it unfortunately when it comes to these things. Unfair it is for sure, but think about how many of these complaints they get a day.. '' this guy took my money from ebay and didnt send me the goods'' and ''i bought this car and bla bla''.. unfortunately happens all too much dude!

Keep us updated though, get your friend to do something though, just so incase he doesnt get the guy he can say oh well atleast I tried

Really hope it somehow works out for you and your mate, good luck!

[MacDiZZle]

yer report it at the very least because he has broken the law! if he never mentioned the fact that there was money owing on the car then its called something like breech of contract (and yes it does still apply for private sales).

even though it may have been only a verbal contract (unless he wrote you a receipt with all the conditions of the sale on it) its still a breech of contract. only hard thing is if it was only a verbal contract then trying to prove that what you say happened, happened.

and even if he gets convicted it has nothing to do with your mate getting his car back. the guy who ripped you off just has to pay a fine or go to jail or whatever the penalty is. your mate doesn't get his car back unless his lodges a civil claim. criminal justice and civil justice are completely different!

but all you can do is try.

[outrgs]

and even if he gets convicted it has nothing to do with your mate getting his car back. the guy who ripped you off just has to pay a fine or go to jail or whatever the penalty is. your mate doesn't get his car back unless his lodges a civil claim. criminal justice and civil justice are completely different!

but all you can do is try.


i think the law will try to "set things right" in settling the matter. which means if he is able to prove that he did break the contract then the court will try to "reset" things the way they are before the contract (forgot the name of that legal term). ie. your mate gets his money back and too bad for the guy because the car would have been reposessed even if he didnt sell it!

i think you have a good case here - you can ask the guy the purpose of selling the car and why he didnt mention the debt owing on it (if that is the case). think as to what the reason is for him selling the car and should a person be notifying the buyer of owing debt (as this is considered relevant). your mate could pass this off to be misleading conduct which can void the contract. And yes, easier to prove things when you are against a company but the same basic rules apply to law of contracts (for private sale/company, etc)

DISCLAIMER: I AM NO EXPERT NOR AM I QUALIFIED TO GIVE LEGAL ADVICE. THE ABOVE INFORMATION IS ONLY MY OPINION AND IS NOT TO BE TAKEN AS IT IS. PLEASE CONSULT A SOLICITOR AND SEEK PROPER LEGAL ADVICE

[MacDiZZle]

if he is able to prove that he did break the contract then the court will try to "reset" things the way they are before the contract (forgot the name of that legal term). ie. your mate gets his money back and too bad for the guy because the car would have been reposessed even if he didnt sell it!

once he reports it to the police im pretty sure he has nothing to do with it... the police handle it from there. you may not even be asked to go to court and if you are it will be only as a witness.

ill give you an example... if someone smashes my hotted up dc2r in with a baseball bat and i catch it on camera and then report it to the police. they will take him to court and convict him and he will get whatever the punishment is (a fine, community service or jail) but i still will have this busted piece of crap car... its up to me to have insurance so they can get me a shiny new one.

now i (or my insurance company) can then after he is convicted on criminal charges sue him for damages. but that can take a looooong time.

that is how i was taught it... but its been a while :D... make sense?


DISCLAIMER: I AM NO EXPERT NOR AM I QUALIFIED TO GIVE LEGAL ADVICE. THE ABOVE INFORMATION IS ONLY MY OPINION AND IS NOT TO BE TAKEN AS IT IS. PLEASE CONSULT A SOLICITOR AND SEEK PROPER LEGAL ADVICE
^^^^ yer me too lol

[outrgs]

ill give you an example... if someone smashes my hotted up dc2r in with a baseball bat and i catch it on camera and then report it to the police. they will take him to court and convict him and he will get whatever the punishment is (a fine, community service or jail) but i still will have this busted piece of crap car... its up to me to have insurance so they can get me a shiny new one.

now i (or my insurance company) can then after he is convicted on criminal charges sue him for damages. but that can take a looooong time.


i agree with you here. in that example i think you can have an "all-in-one" case. ie, damage to property - this is a midemeanor/bad behaviour (not sure about the term misdemeanor though if it is the correct term) and is a financial loss to the owner of the property. the state will prosecute for bad behaviour or whatever you want to call it and you can sue for the damages?

but if you have insurance you can report to police, identify the offender, provide the report to your insurerand they will get you a shiny new thang and it's out of your hair. not sure if the guy will still get prosecuted for the bad behaviour bit though but i doubt the insurer will sue for bad behaviour since it will cost them time (not sure if it will cost them money but time = gold) and i think it really is a state/criminal matter

back to the matter in hand,, you said he is a fob. he can use that as his disadvantage and that the seller took advantage of this.. eg. new to country, unfamiliar with laws and not fluent in english...it would go something like "given the circumstances, the buyer is not fluent in english and had difficulties understanding the terms of the agreement, the seller did not make the subject very clear although it is obvious to him that the buyer is having troubles understanding the terms...yada yada yada...it would be clear that the seller engaged in a deceptive/misleading conduct voiding the contract at hand"

[blueyozi]

This is one of the most informative thread I've read and that can be learned from. Feel sorry for the fob dude.

I thought REVS was only to find out if the car has been written off and I didn't know how important it would be if a car has money owing.

So bloody informative.... I have bought 3 cars now from Private sales since L plater, I feel really lucky that I didn't come accross that situations.

Good luck to your friend bud! As some1 said.... trying is always for free but time consuming.

[outrgs]

[QUOTE=blueyozi;2442435]

I thought REVS was only to find out if the car has been written off and I didn't know how important it would be if a car has money owing.

[QUOTE]

REVS will (In NSW - not sure about other states) give information about a car that has already been registered. If the car is freshly imported and you are the first owner here in Aus it will not give an accurate background info. But then again the car goes through credit checksbefore it leaves the country I believe.

REVS in most case will provide information regarding debts on the car (if any) as well as whether it has been previously declared as a repairable write off. For eg, i have an EG that was involved in an accident. Car is too expensive to repair according to my insurer so they pay me out, they sell the car, someone buys it and repairs it themselves. The car gets re-registered and possibly become for sale. If you are thinking of buying it, you get the rego + chassis/engine number (cant remember which one or if you need both) and check with REVS. The chassis/engine number would have had a record (because it was previously registered under my name) that will not match the new plate number. And that's how you find out it was previously in an accident.

[bennjamin]

guys.....

there is every chance the person sold the car without knowing it had finance owing (IE previous ownership had it) so do NOT assume. Get a lawyer and work it out or refer it to the police

[curtis265]

but why would a repo only happen now?

How do they crack onto these things?

[dc2dc2dc2]

lolz this thread made me laugh a bit.

ur mate was wayyy too keen like they say if its too good to be true. Then simply, it is too good to be true. If you brought the thing in melb some sort of 'finance check' which costs like $40 you are protected against repossession of your vehicle. Did your mate bother paying for that? or is there such thing as that in syd?

Anyways, lesson learnt by your mate and the people who wear their heart on their sleeve.

[curtis265]

he didn't know anything about reposession and financing issues etc.

so, if i buy a s2k from some guy for 10k, who's trying to rip me off as he's got a debt on it... andi get the finance check done, i can keep t he s2k for 10k...?!?

btw does anyone know how to print all this without mass copy-pasting into word?

[bennjamin]

he didn't know anything about reposession and financing issues etc.

so, if i buy a s2k from some guy for 10k, who's trying to rip me off as he's got a debt on it... andi get the finance check done, i can keep t he s2k for 10k...?!?

btw does anyone know how to print all this?

no. you would likely have to pay off the debt to keep the car.
The REVS certificate only prevents repossession , your car may still be eventually repo'd thru legal proceedings.

[curtis265]

poop. any new on printing? I want to show him these and give him an idea of what to talk about with a laywer.

[hotdc2]

File>print

[outrgs]

File>print

or you can save the links?

[TT44NG]

i thought fobs would buy cars like mini coops, mazda 3s, FDs etc lol
o well..bad luck on this one.

[curtis265]

Yeh his parents aren't loaded enough to buy him a brand new car off the lot.. either that or he doesn't get along with them.

Currently.. the story is that he hasn't yet called the guy back, cos he's scared the seller might flee for his life.

[outrgs]

Yeh his parents aren't loaded enough to buy him a brand new car off the lot.. either that or he doesn't get along with them.

Currently.. the story is that he hasn't yet called the guy back, cos he's scared the seller might flee for his life.

great idea to keep logs of what was discussed, when and how long the conversation lasted

or even better, put it in writing and ask for their reply to be in writing too

[TheSaint]

GET LEGAL ADVICE

i can give you a phone number of a really good lawyer that helped me out in similar situation with dealing with retarded bogans ppl lol

also a family member is a QC Lawyer in perth too, so i can get a recommendation of someone to deal with this ... either way ... find a good lawyer man

same things go for lawyers as cars too ... u get what you pay for lol

edit - it may also be worth getting your hands on a copy of the transfer of ownership papers ... provided they wer filed properly

[curtis265]

Lol had a another chat to him last night - he DID NOT have comprehensive insurance on his camry... i facepalmed so hard.

He filed a report with the police but he was rejected because i think he might n ot have explained it properly... He told me that they said it's a civil not a criminal matter, so it's not their problem.

[namski]

legal advice - lawyer that knows how to deal with these cases.

wasting time on OH isn't going to solve anything, he needs to take action.

But then again I see it as your mate's fault, there's so many precautions to take when buying a car it's what happen when you don't take the right steps you could end up in a hole like your mate is.

goodluck, but spending 1 - 2k + on a lawyer isn't worth it for your situation.
back to work, save more money & then try again in a few months.

[TT44NG]

legal advice - lawyer that knows how to deal with these cases.

wasting time on OH isn't going to solve anything, he needs to take action.

But then again I see it as your mate's fault, there's so many precautions to take when buying a car it's what happen when you don't take the right steps you could end up in a hole like your mate is.

goodluck, but spending 1 - 2k + on a lawyer isn't worth it for your situation.
back to work, save more money & then try again in a few months.

+1

a product being purchased is the buyers choice, they bare the responsiblity of finding out the details before rushing to buy it. the seller can be shifty, but asif they're gona tell u the problems when they can see that you're clueless and just play along wiating for the money to flow in.

Buyers Risk always applies..The seller always ends up as a the smart one.

[curtis265]

Aah he's not awaiting on me for advice, he's to a lawyer soon anyway.

I also thought that spending 2k on a lawyer to get 7k back isn't terribly worth it too... the time and effort to do that is just too much.

[TT44NG]

Aah he's not awaiting on me for advice, he's to a lawyer soon anyway.

I also thought that spending 2k on a lawyer to get 7k back isn't terribly worth it too... the time and effort to do that is just too much.

yup..and the outcome might not be positive.

another gamble..
i rather take that 2k to star city lOL