crankshaft bolt sheared off/new crank pulley

[lithium]

hey guys,
recently the crankshaft bolt sheared off on our 92 civic breeze, causing the crank pulley to fly off and disappear. the keyway in the crank looks pretty good considering what happened, there is only a small chip at one end.
i'm in the process of trying to bodge it together (my mechanic won't touch it short of saying 'new engine or thousands of dollars for a crankshaft replacement') and was wondering if anyone has a) had this happen to their civic and b) saved the engine without replacing the crankshaft?
also i was wondering what the best wreckers to try are in Sydney for Honda parts. i did a search and hontoys and honbits in Smithfield seem to be popular?
depending of whether i am able to effect a good repair, it's possible this car will be headed for one of those wreckers soon!
apologies for my first post being about the possible demise of (in my opinion) quite a good little car ;)
thanks :)

[Fly-Rice]

You should take it to Hanny's.

[lithium]

are Hanny's good? can they do a lasting repair on something like this? it's not a normal thing mechanics do...

[lithium]

just in case anyone else has this problem - i've patched it up and the breeze is back up and running :D

the steps were

1) use a decent set of left handed drill bits and drill the bolt remains out of the crankshaft. as long as the guy who did the previous timing belt change didn't use thread locker (mine didn't) it will wind straight out during the drilling as all holding tension is gone once the bolt head shears off. no stud extractor was required! centerpunch and then drill from a small bit to a large bit, remembering to lubricate the bolt/bit regularly with lots of WD-40 to prevent the bit overheating and blurring (the crankshaft bolt material is very hard)

2) pick up a used crank pulley and key. pick your jaw off the ground at the amazing prices charged for a 20 year old pulley (wrecker: $150 new: $280)

3) look at the damage to the crankshaft snout. on mine the damage was minor, it was only a very small chip on the end of the keyway. i just pushed the pulley back on with the key, using some silicone adhesive (ultra grey rtv gasket maker rated ~400psi tensile strength, with excellent shear resistance) between the spline/pulley mating surface to aid bonding

if you have more serious damage the internet says it is sometimes still possible to repair using a technique such as this:

http://www.miata.net/garage/hsue/LoctiteCrank1.html

but if you do good luck ever getting the pulley off again if the engine sees it to its next timing belt change!

4) get a new crankshaft bolt, torque to spec, put the three belts back on - and away you go :)

my fix has only gone 50km so far. there is no evidence of pulley wobble or bolt slippage so it's looking good - time will tell :eek:

[nisboi40]

Mate buy a new motor you can find one for 400 odd bucks same thing happined to me, it will keep on comming off because most likely there's no thread for the bold to hang on to any more, this is cause by a dogey timing belt change left the bolt too loose or too tight

[e240]

Crank shaft replacement won't cost thousands!!!
Even performance crankshafts cost around $600 landed

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Eagle-ESP-4340-Crankshaft-Civic-Si-B16a-B16a2-B16-77mm_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem4836f76c60QQitemZ3 10159830112QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAcc essories



hey guys,
recently the crankshaft bolt sheared off on our 92 civic breeze, causing the crank pulley to fly off and disappear. the keyway in the crank looks pretty good considering what happened, there is only a small chip at one end.
i'm in the process of trying to bodge it together (my mechanic won't touch it short of saying 'new engine or thousands of dollars for a crankshaft replacement') and was wondering if anyone has a) had this happen to their civic and b) saved the engine without replacing the crankshaft?
also i was wondering what the best wreckers to try are in Sydney for Honda parts. i did a search and hontoys and honbits in Smithfield seem to be popular?
depending of whether i am able to effect a good repair, it's possible this car will be headed for one of those wreckers soon!
apologies for my first post being about the possible demise of (in my opinion) quite a good little car ;)
thanks :)

[e240]

Mate buy a new motor you can find one for 400 odd bucks same thing happined to me, it will keep on comming off because most likely there's no thread for the bold to hang on to any more, this is cause by a dogey timing belt change left the bolt too loose or too tight

LOL - I have a very good condition 1999 D16Y FI engine + gearbox + drive shaft + ECU + Loom + shifter For $250...

[egSi]

The crank pulley flew off when we were driving my mates EK once. It was saved :thumbsup:

Funny shit, I agree with e240. I say **** it and swap in an injected D16 instead. :thumbsup:

[~Sp33~]

I wish my crank pulley would be able to fall off, i think this particular bolt is the highest torqued bolt in the whole car.

I've also spent thousands at Honbits, and all their parts have been quality.

[chowdaa]

happen to me, my engine is now butted, then i put in a jdm d15b :) the pulley came off 3 other times after loctite and 180nm. lost a belt then found in 2 kms down the road LOL.

[lithium]

a second hand motor or new crank doesn't cost thousands, the labour does. unless you do it yourself of course. i'm not going to do it myself, i've never done an engine swap before so it'll take someone like me a lot of time, and my time is worth something too ;)

to e240: your 1.6 VTEC would be definitely tempting if i was planning to do another project car! but i am a bit past that scene now :) our Breeze was my fiances first car and we've since bought a replacement for it anyway :)

the threads in the crankshaft are fine. the splines on the second hand crank pulley are also in good condition, and the keyway is mostly intact.

i'll report back in a few hundred k - my fingers are crossed the pulley stays in place, but it looks like many others haven't been so lucky

i didn't know this problem was so common though with these engines :eek:

[wynode]

It is not uncommon to snap the crank pulley bolt on some EGs. Robert (from Hannys) shook his head when he did mine as he acknowledged it as a problem. No need for new motor if crank is OK.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45

[lithium]

that looks exactly like my old crank bolt :D even sheared with the same dome shape on the bolt head side

how long did your EG last past when it suffered the sheared bolt?

it might be giving away his trade secrets but i don't suppose you know what your repairer did to make sure the new pulley didn't loosen again with a damaged keyway do you? i used strong rtv silicone, was tempted to use one of the super polymers that loctite make but thought that one day i just might need to get that pulley off again :)

thanks

[wynode]

how long did your EG last past when it suffered the sheared bolt?

it might be giving away his trade secrets but i don't suppose you know what your repairer did to make sure the new pulley didn't loosen again with a damaged keyway do you? i used strong rtv silicone, was tempted to use one of the super polymers that loctite make but thought that one day i just might need to get that pulley off again :)

thanks

Not sure what you mean by/with your first sentence ?

As for the damaged keyway.........I was lucky enough not to have one :)

[lithium]

Not sure what you mean by/with your first sentence ?

As for the damaged keyway.........I was lucky enough not to have one :)

sorry - apologies for my lazy internet english :wave: i meant to ask, how much further did the engine in your EG travel before you sold it/it went to car heaven? i'm just asking because i want to know how much longer i can expect this engine to go for.

though seeing your crank wasn't damaged when the pulley came off, i guess it's a different case :)

[wynode]

I think I had a couple of track days after that incident :)

Mind you the car had around 160K before it happened (assuming it hadn't happened before I owned it)

[intk20A]

The problem is your drive belts were too tight, but if the thread is stuck in the crank you need to call the thread doctor, he is in melb. but yeah he is great and doesnt charge to much.

[lithium]

over-tightened drive belts can shear a crank bolt? that's the first i've ever heard of that :confused: i find it very very very difficult to believe some big rubber bands can destroy a hardened bolt of that size

i suspect it either sheared due to 20 years of normal wear and tear, or incorrect torquing during one of the previous timing belt changes.

half was stuck in the crank, but no thread doctor was required fortunately :) a reversible power drill and left hand drill bits did the trick. ghetto fixes ftw :wave:

in other news the Breeze has hit 300km since the repair. still going strong, the crank pulley has not grown wings again :D

[wynode]

over tightened belts could put pressure over time especially with inertia as a result of the pulley turning

[intk20A]

Yes thank you, especially if the power steering belt is over tightened as that is on the outside of the crank pulley, seen it happen a few times and is a rule when re-tensioning drive belts on hondas, especially the older ones.

[lithium]

well, ok. in my experience over tightening the belts merely makes them wear more quickly. i guess in the presence of another failure eg. worn keyway, wobbling pulley - a tight belt will accelerate the wear :)

[bennjamin]

another problem arises , when people re use oem bolts and tighten to spec.

In this instance , tigthening an old crank bolt to 177nm (or just hit it hard with a impact gun as mechs often do) can cause fractures and the bolt can just fall apart.

[lithium]

another problem arises , when people re use oem bolts and tighten to spec.

In this instance , tigthening an old crank bolt to 177nm (or just hit it hard with a impact gun as mechs often do) can cause fractures and the bolt can just fall apart.

agreed. i think Honda acknowledges this problem as the new crank bolts for this motor are made from a different material and are now torqued to 194NM.

[andos]

Hey guys, l know this might be a stupid question, but can someone confirm for me if the thread is LH or RH. I'm presuming normal RH given using LH drill bits to extract the old bolt.

I'm having a hell of a time getting it out!!! I'm going to grab a big impact gun from work (mine wont budge it), but just want to make sure l'm doing it the right way (have tried both with my impact gun).

Cheers!

[~Sp33~]

It's not a reverse thread, lefty loosey.

[wastingtime]

I have had a similar problem although I found the bolt loose after I hear some horrible noises in the engine bay. A new pulley was only done a few weeks ago and it came back with a wobbly pulley, I'm in the process of seeking legal action with the mechanics as they've not wanted to know about the whole thing.

My keyway on the crank is fine and it still measures stock sizes at the end of the crank and the thread on the hole and bolt seem fine seeing as I turned it off after about 10 seconds, so does this mean it should be alright with a new pulley and keyway?

I'm piecing together what they did but all I can think of is either a loose bolt or re-using the keyway as they got a new one and the part they used looks awfully old. The car did whine also when I got it back and the belts were tight indicating they overdid accessory belts, could a tight timing belt or balancer belt cause this?

[bennjamin]

Reusing the old key and or crank bolt can do this.

IE if it was torqued to original spec it still could of came loose.

[wastingtime]

Crank bolt was definitely changed along with pulley but the metal of the keyway just looks old and tarnished to me (may be like this from being jammed and getting hot)

Will find out when I order a new one if its a different price I guess and see how different it looks.

But do you guys think I will be alright? really don't want a re-occuring problem.

thanks

[wastingtime]

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8009/7384584634_fc6c69e5a5_h.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7071/7384586296_4750a0f864_h.jpg

the keyway looks a little messed but it looks better in person, the old keyway fits snug considering its damaged so I will have to see how the new one fits.