Trading on this site

[TODA AU]

The B20 engine thread that was edited with posts deleted & moved..
The topic of trading without being a paid trader was brought up…
& the thread diluted into the usual shit fit,
My bad for starting it,
But the point was clear

This is the continuation of that topic…
I think it need to be discussed & resolved once & for all


Yes, yet I got infracted again one month later for a sig a moderator said "your sig is now ok"...:thumbsup: - Anyway, I'm working on something at the moment, as Wynode knows.
I don’t begrudge you earning a dollar or getting somewhere in this godforsaken market…
But I do take offence to you constantly getting away with clear trading without any real penalty
Why, because I pay good money to trade on here… These days I often ask myself for what ?
So please, rather than talk about it… Pay money… Become a legit trader instead of a pseudo trader & be done with it…
Then no one will get their noses out of joint when you’re blatantly pedalling your wares or services


Do the mods even talk to eachother? This is bloody hopeless.
you lot need to cool your guns. stop being so god damn trigger happy on the infraction gun.
And adrian, it appears 'paying' to use the forum doesn't get you anywhere. I've still been infracted for "unauthorised selling" despite being an active member and a supporter. The more time i spend on this site, the more YF starts to make sense...
You’re right, on the face of it, paying to be a trader on this forum is probably a negative rather than a positive.
The moderators’ rarely support a paying trader; rather they’ll recommend anything other than the said paid trader, whomever that might be.
Lots of people clearly trade on this sight without impedance or infraction, without being paid traders…
As a mood point, its horseshit & everyone knows it.
Nothing ever gets done, because no one says anything, or it’s just too hard…
I think the so called infraction gun is utterly impotent. It does little to nothing to curb the ways of those who flaunt the rules..
& by the rules, you’re right. This thread is technically spammed & should be infracted.
But in my defence, I have a good point & it should be heard.
Maybe I’m the only trader who speaks up? I don’t know…


I’m not picking fights here, but clear examples are…
BYP - Benny & Jimmy selling engines & parts… DR Honda - Phil & his engines, ProTune - Chris with his engines & services… The list goes on…
To be frank, on the face of it, these guys can’t be doing anything wrong in reality…
Why?
Well the real crux of the matter… Benjamin himself trades his services online…

Ben, as a Mod, you aught to lead by example…
Yet when you flaunt the rules yourself, how can you possibly infract someone else for doing the same?
I suggest, you get an ABN, pay to be a trader & apply the same rules to everyone else who is trading.
Hey presto… I’m not an arsehole anymore & the site gets better & earns more money.
Pretty simple really…

Apologies for the long winded brief…
I’m off the soap box now…

Can we have some sensible discussion on this matter?


Refer: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88026

[bennjamin]

Adrian , i edited and moved the thread in question.

I strongly support yourself and other traders where be due. I personally go out of my way to recommend you (and others) for all local issues / wants / needs. I have no idea what you are on about instigating such things.

Dont bring my stupid sig into this because you are tiffed at the backyarders. I get paid in a 6 pack here n there for helping a plethora of members off this forum....hours upon hours upon hours i wont get back. There are a few here that DO practice on commercial levels that really should put into this forum - you do get your own subforum and full coverage of ozhonda.
You do bring up some issues , i have pm'd chris RE this matter and feel he join as a trader with Dr honda and once they can provide a ABN and agree to trade to Wyn. Otherwise its only time until they amoungst others slip up , obtain infractions for commercial style sales and ultimately get banned.

[joyride]

The moderators’ rarely support a paying trader; rather they’ll recommend anything other than the said paid trader, whomever that might be.
theres been plenty of times where i've seen members/moderators point newcomers to traders. i've done it often enough myself.
i would assume that traders pay to advertise on the site, that would be the bare minimum support the site provides.


Lots of people clearly trade on this sight without impedance or infraction, without being paid traders…
As a mood point, its horseshit & everyone knows it.
Nothing ever gets done, because no one says anything, or it’s just too hard…
i dont personally know who is trading under the cover of pretending to be a member. its up to the members aswell to be honest and report it when someone advertises their business/services via PM. the moderator team would need proof that the member is a business before any thorough action is taken.



I’m not picking fights here, but clear examples are…
BYP - Benny & Jimmy selling engines & parts…
DR Honda - Phil & his engines,
ProTune - Chris with his engines & services…
The list goes on…
if these guys are a proper business, they should be have a trader account on OH. we'll seek action on this.

[wynode]

Adrian I'm but a PM away. I've always been open to comments from traders and that's exactly why things like signature advertising and overseas traders are no longer allowed on this site. All because of feedback from traders.

There are a few traders on here who do send me PMs alerting me to people who try to bend the rules (like some of the names you mentioned above). When I get these PMs I act on them.

The traders have and do continue to support the site financially hence I do not take their (and your) feedback lightly.

Anyways....point noted and we will crack down on it more then. If you have any thread/person who is trying to get away with not paying for trader access when they should be, then send me a PM or email me.

[zco]

this is going to sound real blunt.

toda au, just because you're a paying member doesnt mean shit all. if you're simply not happy with what you're getting then dont pay for it, and dont stick around.

its like how ppl dont like your services, and no longer visit you

[joyride]

he (and everyone else) does have a right to bring the subject to light, its all about fairness here. it doesnt matter if he's paid or not, if something is not right then something needs to be done to fix it.

[hotdc2]

Many of the people Adrian brought up use the site on a personal level. I know for a fact Phill isn't looking for customers, he has too much shit on his plate as is. I can't speak for benson, but a lot of the time members are refered to them (phill, benson, chris, and even yonas) by other members. You can't stop word of mouth. They are all fairly priced, and convenient to go to, as opposed to TODA AU. True, you get what you pay for, and with TODA you get INSANE reputation.. but we drive HONDAS. hondas are cheap, and cheap people drive them. You can't have a cry because cheap people decide to go to cheap builders.

the real issue here is signature advertising. nothing else. If it were simply about contributing to the site financially, this wouldn't be an issue. traders would get free roam, supporters would get free roam, and everyone else would be beaten to a pulp with the infraction stick.

I'm disapointed to see no infractions were handed out in that B20 Engine thread as i've seen them being dealt for lesser offences.

GG moderators.

[wynode]

the real issue here is signature advertising. nothing else. If it were simply about contributing to the site financially, this wouldn't be an issue. traders would get free roam, supporters would get free roam, and everyone else would be beaten to a pulp with the infraction stick.

I'm disapointed to see no infractions were handed out in that B20 Engine thread as i've seen them being dealt for lesser offences.



No. The issue here is users who are not traders selling non private items. You seem to have more of an issue here than the actual user who was infracted. If he has an issue then I'd expect him to post up here.

[gReY-oNe]

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2071032&postcount=11
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2148849&postcount=18

Is something along those lines ok in the sig? How are we to know if they are part owners in a business? Or purely advertising for mates?

[hotdc2]

No. The issue here is users who are not traders selling non private items. You seem to have more of an issue here than the actual user who was infracted. If he has an issue then I'd expect him to post up here.

Because i don't want to see OH members lose out on any further dealings they might have with him on a personal level. He's not selling anything in bulk. in fact, the stuff he advertises is sitting in the bottom of his garage. how do you know it isn't private? Perhaps the stuff is second hand/refurbished after he has personally used them?

You shouldn't just assume Win. Assumptions can land you in deep waters in the real world.

And make no mistake, i'm not arguing on Chr1s' behalf. I'm not arguing because i think he's right and just. I'm arguing because you guys were wrong, and won't own up. Joyride was wrong for pouncing on him in that thread, ben is wrong for advertising in his sig, and you're wrong for defending them when they have no legs of their own to stand on.

You need to lead by example.

[bennjamin]

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2071032&postcount=11
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2148849&postcount=18

Is something along those lines ok in the sig? How are we to know if they are part owners in a business? Or purely advertising for mates?


thanks - infracted the 1st one.

[hotdc2]

why is the first one different from the second?

[m3ntAL_l2]

imo second one should be infracted.. at lest the first one is promoting a trader on here and his own sales thread...

[wynode]

why is the first one different from the second?

This thread is to to with "Trading on this site" not to do with moderators.

If you have a problem with moderator actions then see the sticky in this forum.

Also remember that moderators are not robots and they do not act the same. I might give someone a warning for a post however another moderator might give an infraction so keep that in mind.

Please reply back only if you have some feedback relating to the original post, not moderator actions.

[hotdc2]

the original post is directly related to the moderators actions.

I raised some valid points, is it so hard to address them? and what about that PM wynode?


lastly, you are boss. if you let something slide, then they should also. they should act like you in your absence.

[wynode]

I wasn't referring to your post.

Point is that there are a few on here who are selling items commercially without being a trader. Naturally that will piss of the paying traders. We're discussing this in the mods section and will probably crack down on it as it has been raised as an issue.

Please do not tell me how to run my site. If you do not like the way things are run here then you are free to leave.

As I said before, your infraction was justified and if you had a problem with it.....you should have brought it up then, not now.

[hotdc2]

i did bring it up then, however ben ignored my pm

feel free to reply by pm so i'm not cluttering up your site..

[joyride]

. Joyride was wrong for pouncing on him in that thread.
hey mate, my warning came about because he has had 2 prior warnings about a signature violation. i knew of this because we moderators do communicate with each other.
i gave him a warning that he shouldnt be discussing his business so publicly and he should know the reason why.

i hope that clears it up for you

[joyride]

lastly, you are boss. if you let something slide, then they should also. they should act like you in your absence.
it seems you have something against the moderator team? open a new thread if you have any concerns and i'll try to answer them to my best.

lets keep this thread about traders etc

[hotdc2]

i don't have anything against you guys personally, i just think some members are treated a bit better than others. I;m not going to bother opening another thread. I've seen how useless it is when YF did it. I used to just think he was blabbering on about nothing, but i cn see what he was talking about now.

some people get countless warnings, and others get infracted straight away. It's unfortunate that i was one of the ones infracted straight away. i guess we wouldn't be having this discussion if i was on your team now huh?

[wynode]

i don't have anything against you guys personally, i just think some members are treated a bit better than others. I;m not going to bother opening another thread. I've seen how useless it is when YF did it. I used to just think he was blabbering on about nothing, but i cn see what he was talking about now.

some people get countless warnings, and others get infracted straight away. It's unfortunate that i was one of the ones infracted straight away. i guess we wouldn't be having this discussion if i was on your team now huh?
Like I said before....not all moderators act the same. Some will give a warning and some will infract. We are all human.

If a complaint is made then it get investigated and the infraction is looked at. If it was warranted, then it stays. A bit similar to how some police officers will give you a warning whereas some will give you a fine.

There's nothing that can be done about it.

[jords]

I have a few questions.....

What qualifies people on here to be a trader?
How much does it cost annually to be a trader and have your own trader section??
________

[hotdc2]

police officers won't let you off when it can be proven that they let you off.

If people are watching then they will make an example.
this is the interwebz, everything can be read by others.
why make an example out of just one person and let the others off easy?

[aaronng]

police officers won't let you off when it can be proven that they let you off.

If people are watching then they will make an example.
this is the interwebz, everything can be read by others.
why make an example out of just one person and let the others off easy?

I thought members were complaining that mods were like cops?
And here you are asking us to be cops?
And no, we are not cops, we are only volunteers.

[bennjamin]

imo second one should be infracted.. at lest the first one is promoting a trader on here and his own sales thread...

sorry typo - i infracted the SECOND .



hotdc2 i did bring it up then, however ben ignored my pm

feel free to reply by pm so i'm not cluttering up your site..

Instead of RE SENDING a pm to me , you continue to troll and push this point that I ignored your pm. I have no memory of said PM , i go thru dozens per day and frankly sometimes i miss one or two. So please , how about you Pm me back and stop with this nonsense.


Lets keep this on topic guys and girls. This is about a few members that possibly should warrant becoming a trader.

[jords]

Ben, how much does it cost anually to be a trader?

[bennjamin]

Ben, how much does it cost anually to be a trader?

I actually have nfi Jords - either pm a trader here or pm wynode direct. I don think its something he would divulge on the public forum. The price , is between him and the person/business paying.

[_CRX_]

jords im not a mod but i can answer your question its $440 a year

[jords]

That sounds very reasonable for your own "traders" section and other privileges.

Its very good exposure and marketing for those shops who are selling their products and/or service's on here 24/7, 365 days a year. There are 22000+ members on here and therefore 22000+ potential customers for each trader.

Why are the traders so upset?

My only conclusion is they are threatened by so called backyarder's or those who offer an option besides going to a workshop. Competition is a good thing imo, and keeps the traders "honest". At the end of the day people will make up their own mind as to whom they will buy their products/services from. If you give them awesome service at a competitive price then you will build your customer base.

[FLICK]

Let me ask Mods:

If OH members are approaching another member on this forum and is asked to do some work for them, does that instantly make them a trader? If so why?

Unless your selling shitloads of parts to make a profit then fair enough. But what does doing work at home got to do with any of this crap?

[hotdc2]

Andrew raises a good point, and somehow my being annoyed at mods for the trader issue has turned into me being annoyed at the mods for not being consistent. I'm not asking you to be like cops Aaron, I'm asking for consistency. If you're going to infract me for unauthorised selling, don't ignore the rest of the population who has/are doing it. If you're going to pick on Chris, then pull everyone up for it.

You could always go for the more lenient approach and not infract them. That would also work. It would also be more beneficial for the community. Instead of wounding the big names in the honda scene such as phill and perhaps benson and making them bitter towards anyone on here who might approach them.

$440 is a lot of money man. Ben would know that people who work from home in there spare time don't make a great deal of money. They aren't TODA or JDMYard. They only get customers because they're cheap.sometimes you just can't warrant that much money for such little promotion.

[wynode]

Let me ask Mods:

If OH members are approaching another member on this forum and is asked to do some work for them, does that instantly make them a trader? If so why?

Unless your selling shitloads of parts to make a profit then fair enough. But what does doing work at home got to do with any of this crap?

Answer to first question = no

As for the second question......it doesn't have to be 'shitloads'. If we deem you are selling multiple items or a large amount of items (especially new) then we will consider it as commercial. There are a few users who do go through a lot of parts and that is fine. It is more the people who have businesses that sell of their surplus parts (and call them private), as well as others who purchase items purely to sell them on here.


Andrew raises a good point, and somehow my being annoyed at mods for the trader issue has turned into me being annoyed at the mods for not being consistent. I'm not asking you to be like cops Aaron, I'm asking for consistency. If you're going to infract me for unauthorised selling, don't ignore the rest of the population who has/are doing it. If you're going to pick on Chris, then pull everyone up for it.

You could always go for the more lenient approach and not infract them. That would also work. It would also be more beneficial for the community. Instead of wounding the big names in the honda scene such as phill and perhaps benson and making them bitter towards anyone on here who might approach them.

$440 is a lot of money man. Ben would know that people who work from home in there spare time don't make a great deal of money. They aren't TODA or JDMYard. They only get customers because they're cheap.sometimes you just can't warrant that much money for such little promotion.

We've tried the lenient approach and as a result people just take advantage of it. Hence why we revised the infractions points and their expiration here (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2378238&postcount=217). We've tried to be accommodating in the past and that not longer works. Expect some further changes to come along shortly.

As for $440 being a lot of money.....well that's only around $36 a month. Most people pay twice that for just internet access. If you're a business and cannot afford $36 a month for advertising then you have some serious issues.

If you're not a business and have private items then there is no problem. The problem is for those who purchase items just to resell them. Sites like ebay are for those people, not Ozhonda.

Anyway, point has been raised and noted. If traders have any issues with member trying to sell things commercially then use the report post feature or contact me (as some of you already do).

[joyride]

it would be good if the members report it too, in fairness for the traders.