Fuel Injection

[Enigma]

I was wondering if anyone would know how i would neeed to go about changing my carby engine into fuel injection or is it just not worth it. Would i be better of just getting another engine or is the change possible.

Thanks Guys

[DualCarb]

which carby engine u got? Single or Dual Carbd?

I found several very useful mods on the dual carb setup for decent power gains. As for it being worth it, consider that all the honda carbed engines put out exactly the same or even better performance than the Fuel Injected versions of the same engines. So ultimately, you'll have to ask yourself what your final goal is for your car... go FI if you wish to make the turboing easy, if you have that in mind. But for NA power, the carbs are good.

[sivic]

EFI is generally better than carb. it allows much greater tuning flexability. dont know of any carb honda engines being better than efi versions? perhaps if you looking at eg gli engine versus VEi. not sure if you can practically convert a carb engine to EFI. prob need to do complete engine swap. to convert your car to EFI you would need: EFI motor(another d series would be easiest), gear box if old not compatible, new ecu, new fuel system - pumps, lines etc and possibly new fuel tank due to internal pumps. with the new engine you would have to make sure you got the manifolds, throttle body and any other sensors and looms for it.

[michael_antoi]

which carby engine u got? Single or Dual Carbd?

I found several very useful mods on the dual carb setup for decent power gains. As for it being worth it, consider that all the honda carbed engines put out exactly the same or even better performance than the Fuel Injected versions of the same engines. So ultimately, you'll have to ask yourself what your final goal is for your car... go FI if you wish to make the turboing easy, if you have that in mind. But for NA power, the carbs are good.


can anyone me if i have single or dual carb....(94 breeze)

and what mods can be done to it to gain performance....

[Enigma]

Well i have a Honda Civic Breeze 91 EG3, single carby. Well even if as u say it doesnt make a difference wat mods do u recon that i could do to my engine. to add to the stock 55hp of the 1.3L.

[DualCarb]

EFI is generally better than carb. it allows much greater tuning flexability. dont know of any carb honda engines being better than efi versions? perhaps if you looking at eg gli engine versus VEi. not sure if you can practically convert a carb engine to EFI. prob need to do complete engine swap. to convert your car to EFI you would need: EFI motor(another d series would be easiest), gear box if old not compatible, new ecu, new fuel system - pumps, lines etc and possibly new fuel tank due to internal pumps. with the new engine you would have to make sure you got the manifolds, throttle body and any other sensors and looms for it.

D14A1 dual carb = 90HP (1400)
D15B2 FI = 90HP (1500)
D15B3 single carb = 92HP (1500)
D15B4 dual carb = 105HP (1500)
D16A6 FI = 108HP (1600)

as you can see, the HP ratings are similar, or slightly better, with the carbd motors, some with even less displacement. The FI may offer more precise tunability, but not everyoe has the luxury of going to see a specialist everytime they need to. Tuning a carb is as easy as turning a screwdriver...

[Enigma]

Then wat are ur recommendations on mods to add more power, from the line to my car. i just feel as it lacks alot of power. Especially since im getting my EG3 engine swapped since i blow the head on it. i want to get as many mods together by the mechanic together as i can.

[DualCarb]

can anyone me if i have single or dual carb....(94 breeze)

and what mods can be done to it to gain performance....

Pop you hood and count them.... If you have a flat airbox lying horizontally directly under your hood, you have a single. If you have an Airbox mounted vertically next to you firewall, you have a dual carb. You can actually see them both clearly.

mods you can find here:

http://www.d-series.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1416

[Enigma]

nah i know, im sure i have a single carby i know that.

[DualCarb]

Then wat are ur recommendations on mods to add more power, from the line to my car. i just feel as it lacks alot of power. Especially since im getting my EG3 engine swapped since i blow the head on it. i want to get as many mods together by the mechanic together as i can.

On a single carb motor, you can flip the lid of the airbox, to let in air from 360 degrees, as opposed to one direction only as with the air inlet pipe. This is also more effective if you drop in a performance filter like K&N designed to replace your stock filter. You can also ask a carb expert to open you second downdraught barrel permanently, more power throughout the range. The second throat only opens at a certain RPM, for high end power. Opening it permanently gives you low end gains too. You can also have it rejetted for slightly more fuel...

[michael_antoi]

so single carby (which i think i have) is not as powerful as dual carby?

[michael_antoi]

ok i understood most of that except for rejetting...

might do some research

[DualCarb]

so single carby (which i think i have) is not as powerful as dual carby?

nope, dual carbs add about 15HP to every motor of the same displacement over the single carb

[michael_antoi]

On a single carb motor, you can flip the lid of the airbox, to let in air from 360 degrees, as opposed to one direction only as with the air inlet pipe. This is also more effective if you drop in a performance filter like K&N designed to replace your stock filter. You can also ask a carb expert to open you second downdraught barrel permanently, more power throughout the range. The second throat only opens at a certain RPM, for high end power. Opening it permanently gives you low end gains too. You can also have it rejetted for slightly more fuel...

not sure how flipping the lid would let air in from 360 degrees...care to explain?

[DualCarb]

not sure how flipping the lid would let air in from 360 degrees...care to explain?

The lid on top of your airbox... turn it upside down, so that it does not seal around the lip of the airbox, but has a gap open right around, letting air in from 360 degrees around the airbox, and not just from the intake pipe... then tie the lid down again with the wingnut you normally tighten it with. Dont just slam your hood down to close, some models have different clearance between the hood and the airbox...

If you have problems closing your hood, replace the lid with another plate that you cut to size and shape with the air filter...

[SiR JDM]

Michael, the 94 breeze is a dual carbi... its the 1.5 litre d15 engine rite?

[michael_antoi]

i know it's a 1.5 carby of some sort...

not sure if it's d15....

[DualCarb]

i know it's a 1.5 carby of some sort...

not sure if it's d15....

is you airbox mounted horizontally under your hood, or is it mounted vertically (upright) next to the firewall at the back of the engine compartment? And it is a D15...

[michael_antoi]

horizontally...

i just checked. it's not possible to flip it coz it wont screw back on....

it wouldn't be a good idea to remove that lid altogether would it?

[DualCarb]

horizontally...

i just checked. it's not possible to flip it coz it wont screw back on....

it wouldn't be a good idea to remove that lid altogether would it?

OK, then you do the old ford trick... you take out the filter, put it on another flat metal/plastic plate, trace the outline of it with a marker, cut out the metal along the line you traced, drill a hole for the wingnut bolt, put your filter back in the airbox, and tighten it down with the new plate on top of the filter...

[michael_antoi]

wouldn't the airflow still be pretty much the same since i'm still sealing the sides with the new metal lid?

[DualCarb]

wouldn't the airflow still be pretty much the same since i'm still sealing the sides with the new metal lid?

No, you will only be sealing the top of the filter over the carb throat, not the actual filtration side where the paper is... that would be exposed to open air, which can now suck in air from right around the exposed sides... when you trace the filter, you trace it while lying FLAT on the metal plate, with the papaer filtration exposed on the sides. Since the new plate will not make contact with the lip of the airbox, the filtration side will be open to the athmosphere...

[michael_antoi]

ahh that's right, ok might give that a try....

would i have to use metal?

would wood be fine?

so how much of an increase would i get if i did that and also a chrome pipe with and air filter attached?

[DualCarb]

ahh that's right, ok might give that a try....

would i have to use metal?

would wood be fine?

so how much of an increase would i get if i did that and also a chrome pipe with and air filter attached?

lol, some guys have used wood, but thats a bit ghetto mate... metal or sturdy plastic plate that you can paint nicely and will be strong enough to withstand the wingnut and the heat will be great. carbs dont work like FI, so a pod filter and chrome pipe will not work as well as a carb breathing from 360 degrees..

http://hondaconcerto.narod.ru/Tuning.html

this site is in russian, about honda concerto's but there is a pick there explaining how carbs are tuned to breathe better

[michael_antoi]

so the pod filter wont do much for me?

[DualCarb]

so the pod filter wont do much for me?

It doesnt even do much for FI...

[StOo]

Will fuel consumption go up in normal driving? I'm guessing it would a little for regular driving and a lot for spirited driving, but I'd like a little confirmation...

Also, if you permanently open the second down draught barrel, wouldn't that chew more fuel too?

[DualCarb]

Will fuel consumption go up in normal driving? I'm guessing it would a little for regular driving and a lot for spirited driving, but I'd like a little confirmation...

Also, if you permanently open the second down draught barrel, wouldn't that chew more fuel too?

All youve done so far is add more air, not fuel... more fuel will be added when you rejet the carb... all these little free tricks makes revving and response better... with the stock setup, any car is actually starved a little for air, all youre doing is optimising it.... freeing it up

[StOo]

All youve done so far is add more air, not fuel... more fuel will be added when you rejet the carb... all these little free tricks makes revving and response better... with the stock setup, any car is actually starved a little for air, all youre doing is optimising it.... freeing it up

Ahh, I see.

I'm reading through that D-Series.org thread that was linked... and man am I out of my league :p Wouldn't mind getting better breathing mods for my car though... Maybe after I'm done with uni for this semester. I've got an exam tomorrow that I *should* be studying for...

[DualCarb]

Ahh, I see.

I'm reading through that D-Series.org thread that was linked... and man am I out of my league :p Wouldn't mind getting better breathing mods for my car though... Maybe after I'm done with uni for this semester. I've got an exam tomorrow that I *should* be studying for...

Good luck for the exams... and that thread is very helpful, lots of useful info for carbd cars there...

[StOo]

Good luck for the exams... and that thread is very helpful, lots of useful info for carbd cars there...

Cheers :)

Yeah, I've been trying to talk my mate into upgrading his engine so I can have his dual carbed 1.5...

I was also looking at getting a weber for my Civic, but found it a bit difficult to source. My other friend has a 74 Civic with an 81 or something engine in it that is nice and quick. Suprises a lot of people for a 50 odd kW car :p I think he can pull mid 17's, which I know doesn't sound fast, but for what it is, it's quite suprising.

[michael_antoi]

a weber....what's that?


i couldn't find much info on rejetting.....can anyone explain it to me?

[DualCarb]

Webers are performance carbs made by a company called... WEBER... there are others also, like Dellorto, Mikuni and Keihin... the stock carbs in our Honda's are Keihin carbs...

the fuel delivery to your engine is controlled by jets in the carb, which open and close according to how deeply you push your accelerator... the deeper you push, the more fuel the jets deliver... but stock jets are jetted for economy, and not necessarly performance. In Oz, like in South Africa, there MUST be shops around that know their way around carbs. They could help you to rejet, meaning putting in a bigger jet for more fuel delivery... some bike performance shops may also be able to help....

just remember, you CANNOT have high performance AND economy, even with FI thats not possible... performance means cramming more air and fuel into your engine's combustion chambers...

[michael_antoi]

so how much performance increase would rejetting get me?


and say i do 500km to a full tank what percentage decrease would i get?

[StOo]

Well... If you had a hole in your bonnet to suck air into the carb, and huge mofo jets, you'd get some decent performance gains :p It all depends on what you want. You could pump heaps of air into the combustion chamber, but if you don't have enough fuel, you'll lean out and risk destroying your engine. On the other hand, you could pump too much fuel into your engine bay and have your car smelling like a rotary :p

You'll have to match both. If done properly, I reckon you could increase response by leaps and bounds, while increasing performance from anywhere between 5% and what... 50%?

Of course, fuel efficiency will also vary depending on what you do... I'm getting about 500km a tank too, but I used to get 600 - 650km. I was considering getting my carb looked at to try to fix the problem... but for the price, I could almost afford a weber and adaptor plate... Anyway, if you want to do what the guys on D-Series.org are doing, expect a drop to about 300km per tank.

Edit: I'm not all that technically minded when it comes to cars, so please take what I've said with a grain of salt. I could be right... I could be wrong. Best to ask someone who knows :p

[DualCarb]

it also depends on how you drive... taking it easy and driving like miss daisy, you wont notice a difference... but if you push her hard, you can witness the needle falling... but like I said, that's the problem with performance... you sacrifice economy.... the best bet is to get a happy medium with both, performance you are happy with, knowing that someone out there is faster than you, and consumption you and your wallet are comfortable with...

[Enigma]

so how much would i be loking at one of these open WEBER air filters? would it also help if i directed a cold air hose pointing at the open filter. so that it can recieve cold are from the outside of the engine? also how much would i be looking at get my carby jetted?

[StOo]

Weber + adaptor plate = ~$400... probably a bit higher.

Cold air will always help.

[DualCarb]

yeah, the single weber downdraught carbie makes good power, ive seen a 1.5 notec with bolt ons and a weber downdraught stick hood to hood with a 1.5 vti....

[michael_antoi]

is there a website where i can see more info about weber's....etc?

[DualCarb]

http://www.redlineweber.com/
http://www.webercarburetors.com/

google does wonders

[Enigma]

would it make a good difference to the performance of my 1.3L EG3. even though its only a single carby?

[DualCarb]

dont let the 1.3 displacement put you off... with twin webers and good tuning, drag racers in malaysia push 205HP out of a D13... short stroke means very high revving ability. Of course, getting the twin weber manifold, which fits on ALL D-series motors, will be better than a single downdraught... but a single downdraught will give you good gains also.. it comes down to what you want for your car... full drag racing power or good driveability with enough whipping power to embarrass most other cars... that said, there still is no replacement for displacement, unless you add vtec :)

[StOo]

I'm sure he meant to say "unless you add nos" :p

Hey DualCarb, I noticed that there's a guy selling a dual carby 1.5 engine in the forums. If I bought this, would I be able to bolt the dual carb onto my 1.3 block? From reading that thread in the other forum, I'm pretty sure I'd be able to, but umm... what else would I need?

[DualCarb]

yes, all d-series manifolds are interchangeable, bolt and port patterns are the same right across... but why dont you drop the whole d15 dual carb in? the whole motor with carbs and all would be a straight swap....

[StOo]

Mostly for insurance purposes, but also because I'm not totally sure that I'd get everything that I need. Is it everything that I need? Would I need a brake upgrade? I am thinking I'd need the clutch... Should probably check back in the For Sale forum to see if he's made a response.

Anyway, as I understand it, older engines can't go into newer cars without going through emissions... so depending on the age of the engine, I may not be able to put it in regardless.

[Enigma]

i like the full dragging capability one. in regards to this the twin weber. would it be hard to fit it to my car? and where would i get it from? u recon 800 for one to fit my little single carb 1,3.

[DualCarb]

i like the full dragging capability one. in regards to this the twin weber. would it be hard to fit it to my car? and where would i get it from? u recon 800 for one to fit my little single carb 1,3.

The links I posted sells the manifolds and the carb setup all together, but i saw no cost listings... contact redlineweber and ask them

[bboy_gadget]

The links I posted sells the manifolds and the carb setup all together, but i saw no cost listings... contact redlineweber and ask them

Hey i got a 1.3L and I want 2 do a B16A4 conversion :honda: .How dramatic would the labour costs be for doing a converstion to an already FI car opposed to a carby one :confused: ? New fuel lines and tank are extra things I heard I need on top of a half cut, would there be anything thing else I need or is it more worth to get an EG5 or 6 then do a converstion? I also heard the B16a4 is a straight bolt on wid the EG6?