Nitrogen in Ya Tyres!

[beeza]

For $6 a tyre @ Bob Jane I had Nitrogen put in my tyres.36 at the Front,34 at the Rear.

The idea is that because nitrogen molecules are tightly packed together/dense,FAR more than air,this will reduce tyre flex through corners.Guys at the track have been doing this for years,it's where it first started.

1st Impressions,Hmmm,I can feel more bums in the road,but only slightly,after 5 seconds I was like,no worries,that's nothing and was used to it!

I was looking forward to getting onto the hilly,dippy and windy road I drive home on everyday to see the difference the nitrogen made,if any.That road will test the extremes (at the speed limit,offcoarse) and give me a perfect indication of any change.

Was there a difference?

YES,A BIG DIFFERENCE!!

WOW! Car stays much flatter through the big dipping corners! I was waiting for the usual roll in the car,which I now understand as tyre sidewall flex/roll,but it didn't happen!

Car stayed flatter and felt incredibly solid through the whole corner.Just Brilliant! I'm STILL smiling :D :D :D

I can't wait to get out on the Track on the 7th of November! :thumbsup:

:honda:

Oh,they say it lasts for 4 months before you need to go and get a top up.

[SPEEDCORE]

Sorry beeze.... but all those things you have mentioned are not a result of nitrogen.

The use of it in motorsport is for achieving more consistant tyre pressures as the tyres heat up. The lower rate of expansion of nitrogen than regular air when heated, is what contributes to consistancy of tyre pressures.

To further add to this... unless you are running dual valve stems on each wheel, then you are wasting your time, as there would have been regular air trapped inside. You need those two valve stems to run nitrogen effectively.... one to fill and one to purge so you end up with only nitrogen inside.

[4age8u]

lol fail post

[beeza]

Sorry beeze.... but all those things you have mentioned are not a result of nitrogen.

Not true.All those things I listed were not there before I got the Nitrogen put in.After I got the Nitrogen put in,all things I listed were very apparent in my car.So everything I listed above IS a result of the Nitrogen.


lol fail post

You watch how much knowledge can be gained from me making this thread,as usual,haven't you been paying attension to the threads I make?

'Having a go' mate,is what it's all about.When people hear comments like your comment,people are afraid to 'have a go' and no one learns jack sh!t,so STFU and lets learn aye! :thumbsup:

[beeza]

Where's Speedy?

:)

[beeza]

Again,it was most noticeable when tested at the extreme,I'm thinking of one big dipping left hand corner in particular where massive weight/force is on the tyres.

The road goes down steap,halfway through the left hand corner it starts going up back up the hill,big dip,big hook,big weight changes,big forces are being applied on the car through this one particular corner,far more than the other corners on this stretch of road,it's a real gem.This corner is where I truely noticed what the nitrogen had done.

If it wasn't for this corner,I wouldn't be speaking so highly of it.So it really did make a big impression on me.

Queensland Raceway is flat,so I dont know if it will be that noticeable on a flat track.

Feel me?!

[aaronng]

Not true.All those things I listed were not there before I got the Nitrogen put in.After I got the Nitrogen put in,all things I listed were very apparent in my car.So everything I listed above IS a result of the Nitrogen.


What were your tyre pressures for each corner before and after putting in nitrogen? Your soft sidewall could be caused by low tyre pressure and then corrected when Bob Jane inflated your tyres up.

[Riced_Civic]

1st Impressions,Hmmm,I can feel more bums in the road,but only slightly,after 5 seconds I was like,no worries,that's nothing and was used to it!



So brett u feel more BUMs on the road huh, LOL

[felixd]

try hydrogen anyone its madness !!!

[SPEEDCORE]

Your soft sidewall could be caused by low tyre pressure and then corrected when Bob Jane inflated your tyres up.

That is the most plausible reason for the changes in characteristics OP is describing.

Of course after factoring out the placebo effect of $6/corner.

[Chriskoss]

Id rather inhale nitrogen myself and feel the difference while driving than wasting my time putting it into my tyres LOL

[beeza]

What were your tyre pressures for each corner before and after putting in nitrogen? Your soft sidewall could be caused by low tyre pressure and then corrected when Bob Jane inflated your tyres up.

36 and 34.Brand new tyres.

There's no question in my mind about what putting the nitrogen in my tyres has achieved (stated above).I just went to Bob Janes and chatted with Brad to tell him and he was like 'Yes yes yes' smiling :D


So brett u feel more BUMs on the road huh, LOL

AHAHAHAHA GOLD GOLD GOLD! :p :p :p

That left hand corner is what made the understanding solid in my mind Speedy and you brought that out of me! :)

[beeza]

Id rather inhale nitrogen myself and feel the difference while driving than wasting my time putting it into my tyres LOL

Bulbs?

:D

[curtis265]

if i'm nto wrong, nitrogen doesn't leak as easily as air either, so the pressure doesn't decrease as quickly over time.

[beeza]

Nice!

Well since I last posted I've been driving in the twisties for 5 hrs,cause I had to take my mate to Lismore to pick up the truck!

Every corner,solid,no roll,just brilliant really!!

At 24 bucks,it's just brilliant for what it does.

[SPEEDCORE]

At 24 bucks,it's just brilliant for what it does.

Yeah weight reduction... from your wallet.


Here's the printout from the wheel alignment after new tyres and bushes,any feedback is greatly apprecited!.

^ The real reason for the differences. :thumbsup:

[beeza]

^ The real reason for the differences. :thumbsup:

What ever makes you feel good :thumbsup:

[quenjose]

75-80% of what we call "air" consists of nitrogen.

I find it hard to comprehend "flatter cornering" from an extra 20% nitrogen in your tyres.

Its probably down to your wheel alignment if you had one...

PS: i've nitrogen filled my tyres too, and the only difference i notice is that i dont have to keep checking them every week. ;)

[lil_foy]

75-80% of what we call "air" consists of nitrogen.

I find it hard to comprehend "flatter cornering" from an extra 20% nitrogen in your tyres.

Its probably down to your wheel alignment if you had one...

Agreed.

Now bezza like everyone said it will not change your driving that significantly unless your tyres were previously under pressured.

Like someone said, nitrogen reacts to heat less then "air" and expands at a much smaller rate meaning it is good when your tyres are getting to very high temps (track day racing) and actually heating up the air enough to mess with your performance.

[Mr_will]

placebo effect my friend.

[beeza]

75-80% of what we call "air" consists of nitrogen.

I find it hard to comprehend "flatter cornering" from an extra 20% nitrogen in your tyres.

Its probably down to your wheel alignment if you had one...

PS: i've nitrogen filled my tyres too, and the only difference i notice is that i dont have to keep checking them every week. ;)

I bet you dont drive on the roads I drive on daily.I can get a video if ya like,big dipping,winding roads,ask webby roller,iijjee or Gio,they drive on them.IN EXTREMES NITROGEN = :thumbsup:


Agreed.

Now bezza like everyone said it will not change your driving that significantly unless your tyres were previously under pressured.

Like someone said, nitrogen reacts to heat less then "air" and expands at a much smaller rate meaning it is good when your tyres are getting to very high temps (track day racing) and actually heating up the air enough to mess with your performance.

My tyre pressure has always been monitored,has always been right.

I can tell you I was driving in the twisties for hours,I know my car,I know any change that happens in my car,I'M IN TUNE with my car.Yup,Lovin' the Nitrogen!


placebo effect my friend.

Have you tried Nitrogen?

In extreme corners?

In a car that you were in tune with?

I have.How was it?

As stated above,brilliant! :thumbsup:


It dosent matter who says what,my view stands and will always stand.I'm reeking the benefits of nitrogen tyres while you guys say it's all in ya head LOL

Come on.Are the guys who swear by it at the track in extreme conditions all affected by the placebo effect too?! Must be a 'Placebo plague' goin' round?

[Mr_will]

i have tried nitrogen in the car i have driven, daily, for the last 5 years. i always keep my tyre pressures up (check them once a week when i refuel). I noticed no difference.

as stated above, air is primarily composed of nitrogen :)

[beeza]

The difference is the roads we drive.

[Killa From Manila]

nitrogen tyres + corner balancing and ur set for some record breaking times at QR! zzzz

[beeza]

Fast times = Couldn't give a sh!t.

Driver experience = O,yes,100% care.

I could go out at QR and do laps for hours.

Would I ever look at the clock,Na! So what! Could not care 1 BIT!!

BUT,I would check the mirror to see if I'm still smiling and having fun :)

[beeza]

Oh btw,I've got a b18c sitting at home but I dont care to put it in.

You see,just recently I got my car going at 100% and it's perfect.It's the perfect car for me,how it is now.I love it.I don't wanna to change that.

[aaronng]

Stay on topic or this thread gets deleted.

[string]

Replacing an 80/20 nitrogen/oxygen mix with pure nitrogen - not a chance you'll get a "big difference" all else equal.

Hitting the magic tyre pressure is a different story. A tiny pressure change can make a big difference and there is no chance in hell that when they put the nitrogen in that the pressure remained identical. Sorry but this is an apples to oranges test.

[beeza]

I just filled up with air at the servo,that's just air isn't it?

The last 2 days I have driven 200km's in twisty roads with a 125kg Moari guy in the passenger seat,hehehe

The tyres hold firm,no roll,feels brilliant,so solid! That's a profound effect on the car,especially when your goinf left,right,left ,right,left,right constantly.BIG DIFFERENCE.

If say you were driving in the city,it wouldn't be so good,cause it will make you feel the bumps in the road and city have heaps.I wouldn't have Nitrogen in my tyres if I lived in the city or didn't drive on twisty roads.

[beeza]

AHAHAHA,Nice one mate!

:) hehehe

I'M DREAMIN'!!

[FAT VTI]

Okay mate, your placebo effect for $24 sounds great.

I might put a JDM sticker on my car and go through the twisties, and I bet i'll feel a difference.

Not trying to discourage you, but you have had alot of people telling you with authority that you are suffering from a placebo effect. If you think you are right, then thats fine, you can keep filling up with nitrogen. but most people get there air in their tyres for free, and do not think your justification for spending the money every 4 months is beneficial.

Just take a hint mate.... If you think its working then keep doing it, but stickers are cheaper.

[tseesinngwailo]

Hang on, doesnt Nitrogen cause Cancer? I am sure theres a worldwide conspiracy supporting this, in fact it would be in line with all your other threads Beeza..

Like the others here, I think you really are missing the point that there was a wheel alignment done as well, you can only really compare if the Nitrogen was the only change, who knows, maybe it IS a placebo effect that has made you drive a little bit harder than you normally do so all of a sudden you think your car is going better?

You also said something about the tyres being brand new, does that mean you never drove on them for any amount of time with them just being filled with ordinary air?

[Sydneykid]

From someone who has been using nitrogen in race car tyres for 20 + years I can confidently say that, all other things being equal, there is no way a race driver, even the best ones, could feel the difference between 78% nitrogen and 100% nitrogen. The reason why we use it in race car tyres is the expansion rate of 100% nitrogen is less than air. As the race tyre heats up the pressure grows, with 100% nitrogen we don't have to have as big a gap between cold and hot tyre pressures. This means the car is faster at the beginning of a race because the tyres are closer to their ideal pressure. And/or the car is faster at the end of a race because the tyres haven't over pressured.

I would add that on humid day or when using an air compressor with poor water filtration the effect of tyre temperature on tyre pressure growth is much greater. So we get more of an advantage out of using 100% nitrogen, because it has zero humidity.

As for purging the air, filling, emptying and refilling the tyres a couple of times with 100%nitrogen does a good enough job of removing the 22% of other gases. I have tried using a vacuum pump instead of multiple fills and the difference in tyre pressure is not noticeable. Even on days at 40+ degree air temp and 65+ degrees track temp.

Cheers
Gary

[BiLL|z0r]

Nice post Gary. Is right on the mark too.
I think you'll find Beeze it was the wheel alignment, new tyres, correct tyre pressure (if not maybe too high as BJ's has a habit of doing that I've found).
I used to run nitrogen in my tyres too so I'm not flaming you in any way but only because it meant I didn't need to check them as much and pressure didn't change as much between hot and cold.

Here's an idea though that is for dicsussion on nitrogen.
I was told it ran cooler than air hence saving on tyre wear, true or myth. Gary, maybe you can shed some light on this as I not sure but think it's a myth.

[Stig]

From someone who has been using nitrogen in race car tyres for 20 + years I can confidently say that, all other things being equal, there is no way a race driver, even the best ones, could feel the difference between 78% nitrogen and 100% nitrogen. The reason why we use it in race car tyres is the expansion rate of 100% nitrogen is less than air. As the race tyre heats up the pressure grows, with 100% nitrogen we don't have to have as big a gap between cold and hot tyre pressures. This means the car is faster at the beginning of a race because the tyres are closer to their ideal pressure. And/or the car is faster at the end of a race because the tyres haven't over pressured.

I would add that on humid day or when using an air compressor with poor water filtration the effect of tyre temperature on tyre pressure growth is much greater. So we get more of an advantage out of using 100% nitrogen, because it has zero humidity.

As for purging the air, filling, emptying and refilling the tyres a couple of times with 100%nitrogen does a good enough job of removing the 22% of other gases. I have tried using a vacuum pump instead of multiple fills and the difference in tyre pressure is not noticeable. Even on days at 40+ degree air temp and 65+ degrees track temp.

Cheers
Gary

backing up gary here
http://www.toyo.com.au/tech_info11.htm

imo there were too many variables in your test, if you wanted to compare the effects of nitrogen on your car you shouldve ran normal air after you got the new wheels and alignment then after a couple of ks ran it with the nitrogen.

[Sydneykid]

Nice post Gary. Is right on the mark too.
I think you'll find Beeze it was the wheel alignment, new tyres, correct tyre pressure (if not maybe too high as BJ's has a habit of doing that I've found).
I used to run nitrogen in my tyres too so I'm not flaming you in any way but only because it meant I didn't need to check them as much and pressure didn't change as much between hot and cold.

Here's an idea though that is for dicsussion on nitrogen.
I was told it ran cooler than air hence saving on tyre wear, true or myth. Gary, maybe you can shed some light on this as I not sure but think it's a myth.

Cooler......not directly. But indirectly maybe, say if the tyres are over pressuring with air, which will cause them to overheat. In turn the excesss heat will cause them to over pressure even more. When using 100% nitrogen, with its lower expansion rate, you may not get the over pressuring, so the tyres may not overheat.

So using 100% nitrogen could be said to help with overheating tyres, but you could achieve the same result by simply using lower cold (start off) tyre pressure with air.


If beeza wants to do a test then he should get someone to change one tyre on the car to air, equalise the pressures, then he has to guess which tyre. If it's as obvious as he makes out he should get it right 4 out 4. If he gets it right then I'll give Frank Williams a call, anyone with that sort of feel should be in F1.:cool:


Cheers
Gary

[Phased]

For $6 a tyre @ Bob Jane I had Nitrogen put in my tyres.36 at the Front,34 at the Rear.

The idea is that because nitrogen molecules are tightly packed together/dense,FAR more than air,this will reduce tyre flex through corners.Guys at the track have been doing this for years,it's where it first started.

1st Impressions,Hmmm,I can feel more bums in the road,but only slightly,after 5 seconds I was like,no worries,that's nothing and was used to it!

I was looking forward to getting onto the hilly,dippy and windy road I drive home on everyday to see the difference the nitrogen made,if any.That road will test the extremes (at the speed limit,offcoarse) and give me a perfect indication of any change.

Was there a difference?

YES,A BIG DIFFERENCE!!

WOW! Car stays much flatter through the big dipping corners! I was waiting for the usual roll in the car,which I now understand as tyre sidewall flex/roll,but it didn't happen!

Car stayed flatter and felt incredibly solid through the whole corner.Just Brilliant! I'm STILL smiling :D :D :D

I can't wait to get out on the Track on the 7th of November! :thumbsup:

:honda:

Oh,they say it lasts for 4 months before you need to go and get a top up.

As the second poster mentions it's to keep tyre pressures constant more than it is to increase sidewall rigidity. Don't forget... if both air and nitrogen was at the same pressure even if nitrogen is denser than air... that doesn't change the pressure in the tyre. The difference off the track in my opinion wouldn't be noticable... unless you constantly drive hard for extended periods of time.

Also no tyre is going to change the "roll" of the car... It may change steering response/feedback and sidewall flex... but neither of these are body roll. Just as a chassis brace doesn't decrease body roll... in realism it actually increases it.

A stiffer sidewall you would find would most likely INCREASE suspension travel depending on the setup of coarse.

All in all, it's good that you shared your experience though :)

[beeza]

Cheers! And that's what it's about aye,sharing is caring :)

I can feel the difference the Nitrogen has made,cheers.

I can feel the wheel alignment too.They are 2 different things.