transmission change

[jyh888]

Hi guys i need some advice and opinions on the following issue:

im looking at preparing a cl9 for track and at the moment i am unfortunately stuck with AT transmission. Due to the longer gear ratios of the CL9 i am thinking of changing the transmission to one with shorter gear ratios but i do not know which transmission gearbox will be suited for the K24 engine. I also want a gearbox with an LSD. Any opinions on which gearbox to use? Or should i just use a CL9 manual gearbox and add flywheel + clutch and LSD? but which LSD should i use?

So my 2 options at the moment are:

1) Keep current car and change the transmision (im aware that there is a lot of labour involved and my budget will be no more than $3000-4000)

2) Purchase a manual cl9 - if i go this route, will it involve changing the whole gearbox or can i get away with just changing the internals?

Open to any opinions/advice thx

and any thing i should consider to prepare a race-car cl9 for track? so far have injen intake, toda headers + hiflow cat (running stock catback), suspension mods include coilovers, front strut, and rear sway bar.

[felixd]

i would go for the type r gearbox with LSD. im not sure where to get them but its better than the stock CL9 manual transmission with internal mods.

[tony1234]

Hi guys i need some advice and opinions on the following issue:

im looking at preparing a cl9 for track and at the moment i am unfortunately stuck with AT transmission. Due to the longer gear ratios of the CL9 i am thinking of changing the transmission to one with shorter gear ratios but i do not know which transmission gearbox will be suited for the K24 engine. I also want a gearbox with an LSD. Any opinions on which gearbox to use? Or should i just use a CL9 manual gearbox and add flywheel + clutch and LSD? but which LSD should i use?

So my 2 options at the moment are:

1) Keep current car and change the transmision (im aware that there is a lot of labour involved and my budget will be no more than $3000-4000)

2) Purchase a manual cl9 - if i go this route, will it involve changing the whole gearbox or can i get away with just changing the internals?

Open to any opinions/advice thx

and any thing i should consider to prepare a race-car cl9 for track? so far have injen intake, toda headers + hiflow cat (running stock catback), suspension mods include coilovers, front strut, and rear sway bar.
Been covered before.Sell it,put your $3K and buy a manual.then change the internals,flywheel and clutch.Take headers,suspension mods off your auto before you sell it and use them on the manual.

[integral90]

I wouldn't recommend the DC5R gearbox for the stock K24a3, the ratios would be too short to make use of the Euro's wider powerband. People forget that the speed a DC5R produces out of each gear is much more than the Euro would. For instance; if the DC5R did 90km/h in 2nd, the Euro would only do 76km/h with that same 2nd.

A much better gearbox in my opinion would be the CU2 Euro's. It uses the same redline but has a MUCH nicer 2nd etc.

As far as track-prepping the 'race car', most of the work happens after the track. Before you go to track buy some brake/clutch fluid, engine oil and (if you're really pedantic) transmission fluid and coolant. After the track session swap all the fluids to fresh, new ones. Also it might be worth investing in spare wheels with some cheaper tyres on them to use at the track.

[jyh888]

thanks for your input guys. However, i have seen many k24s with a type r gearbox for example the EG civic from JDMyard has a similar set up.

So if i used a CU2 gearbox, can i jus swap the internals? or does it need a full gearbox replacement. And as i mentioned, i would also like to install an LSD, which one should i use and how should i go about integrating that with a Cl9 manual gearbox. I believe changing to a JDM dc5r lightened flywheel and HD clutch is a very good investment.

[jyh888]

just wondering if anyone has used another gearbox in an euro? If i need to change the whole gearbox than i might aswell do a conversion and pay for labour all at once, if i do, do i need to change ECU?

[integral90]

thanks for your input guys. However, i have seen many k24s with a type r gearbox for example the EG civic from JDMyard has a similar set up.

EGK24A revs to over 8000rpm, that's why that gearbox works so well for it. There's a big difference in wheel speed from 7200rpm to 8000rpm.


just wondering if anyone has used another gearbox in an euro? If i need to change the whole gearbox than i might aswell do a conversion and pay for labour all at once, if i do, do i need to change ECU?

PM Justin, EUR003act. He swapped the USDM Civic Si gearbox into his car. From what I recall that's basically the same box as the DC5R but with a much nicer cruising 6th.

Also you don't need ECU to change manual gearbox.

[jyh888]

EGK24A revs to over 8000rpm, that's why that gearbox works so well for it. There's a big difference in wheel speed from 7200rpm to 8000rpm.



PM Justin, EUR003act. He swapped the USDM Civic Si gearbox into his car. From what I recall that's basically the same box as the DC5R but with a much nicer cruising 6th.

Also you don't need ECU to change manual gearbox.

thx integral. So do you think it would be cheaper for me to just convert the car to manual rather than buying a manual (since if i am changing the gearbox i would have to pay labour to remove the gearbox and will most likely change flywheel and clutch). My budget for this is no more than $3-4k (including labour and parts)

I will PM EUR003ACT, or if he sees this thread he can reply :)

Hows your car doing integral? What are u plans for the future? found a suitable ecu yet?

[aaronng]

So when are we all going to have an Euro trackday? :p

[aaronng]

Also you don't need ECU to change manual gearbox.
If he's trying to swap from an auto gearbox to a manual, then he will need a manual ECU. :p

[integral90]

thx integral. So do you think it would be cheaper for me to just convert the car to manual rather than buying a manual (since if i am changing the gearbox i would have to pay labour to remove the gearbox and will most likely change flywheel and clutch). My budget for this is no more than $3-4k (including labour and parts)

I will PM EUR003ACT, or if he sees this thread he can reply :)

Hows your car doing integral? What are u plans for the future? found a suitable ecu yet?

You're better off buying a manual Euro if you want to track the car. And I don't think you'd squeeze into your <4k budget otherwise. Message E_Honda, he has a manual looking to swap for an auto. Could work out well :D

Mine's going alright, no problems to report. The car is just really annoying to drive with the torque hole in the midrange, it's really really torquey down low and then you get to about 4000rpm and it starts to drop off before coming back way later. It is good though when you're cruising, you get a big surge of torque when you put your foot 1/2 down.

I'm thinking an Adaptronic stand-alone might be a good option. Right now it's mostly funds that are stopping me from doing it. I'm hoping Adaptronic can arrange something with me as a test-rat :p

The only things left to do really are install coilovers, the ECU and the 06+ TSX cams for a bit more punch. Also the idea of swapping the CU2 gearbox internals into mine is pretty attractive. Ideally I'd like the car to make about 150kW peak and run 14.2-3 on the quarter mile :)


If he's trying to swap from an auto gearbox to a manual, then he will need a manual ECU. :p

Smartass :p

[jyh888]

You're better off buying a manual Euro if you want to track the car. And I don't think you'd squeeze into your <4k budget otherwise. Message E_Honda, he has a manual looking to swap for an auto. Could work out well :D

Mine's going alright, no problems to report. The car is just really annoying to drive with the torque hole in the midrange, it's really really torquey down low and then you get to about 4000rpm and it starts to drop off before coming back way later. It is good though when you're cruising, you get a big surge of torque when you put your foot 1/2 down.

I'm thinking an Adaptronic stand-alone might be a good option. Right now it's mostly funds that are stopping me from doing it. I'm hoping Adaptronic can arrange something with me as a test-rat :p

The only things left to do really are install coilovers, the ECU and the 06+ TSX cams for a bit more punch. Also the idea of swapping the CU2 gearbox internals into mine is pretty attractive. Ideally I'd like the car to make about 150kW peak and run 14.2-3 on the quarter mile :)



Smartass :p

kool thanks heaps integral, your help is much appreciated. im looking to get a 2nd euro (the sport edition) in manual very soon as my parents need to buy another car and since the euro is such a great drive, y not have 2! Or my other option is a dc5r, but not a fan of the aesthetics... Lol how often do you hit over 4k rpm on normal street driving tho? lol. I really want to feel what the car is like with the RBC, u reckon it would work well with the tsx cams? and where can we source it from? havent seemed to find any for sale...your plan sounds very good :) will be waiting to see it! what coilovers did u get? have u tracked ur car again? with all these mods your time should improve heaps, 1.16s? possibly

[integral90]

kool thanks heaps integral, your help is much appreciated. im looking to get a 2nd euro (the sport edition) in manual very soon as my parents need to buy another car and since the euro is such a great drive, y not have 2! Or my other option is a dc5r, but not a fan of the aesthetics... Lol how often do you hit over 4k rpm on normal street driving tho? lol. I really want to feel what the car is like with the RBC, u reckon it would work well with the tsx cams? and where can we source it from? havent seemed to find any for sale...your plan sounds very good :) will be waiting to see it! what coilovers did u get? have u tracked ur car again? with all these mods your time should improve heaps, 1.16s? possibly

If you're at the next meet I'll take you for a spin :p And when I say the 4k rpm, I mean on the drag strip. I mean I did a lot of work and the car only ran 0.1 faster than stock. In my and the car's defence though, I did baby the clutch a LOT more than when I did the 15.5 stock. Then again, the Euro's gearbox is perfectly suited to be CRAP at the 1/4 mile. With the flywheel and clutch done now I think the car could hit 15.1 (optimistically).

From what I've read and been told, the RBC responds very well to bigger cams. Also with the TSX cams + K20A valvetrain I'd be able to take the engine to around 7700rpm which is where the RBC would really shine. The coilovers are Koni Yellows with Eibach Prokit springs.

I only took the car to Wakey once when it only had the RSB and managed a 1:19.0 with full interior. As it is now the car would probably crack a low 1:18 or very high 1:17, and I'd say that would be mostly due to the fact that mine weighs 50kg+ less than stock. With the coilovers and ECU tune I'd say a high 1:16 would be possible and with an LSD; low 1:16s.

[jyh888]

If you're at the next meet I'll take you for a spin :p And when I say the 4k rpm, I mean on the drag strip. I mean I did a lot of work and the car only ran 0.1 faster than stock. In my and the car's defence though, I did baby the clutch a LOT more than when I did the 15.5 stock. Then again, the Euro's gearbox is perfectly suited to be CRAP at the 1/4 mile. With the flywheel and clutch done now I think the car could hit 15.1 (optimistically).

From what I've read and been told, the RBC responds very well to bigger cams. Also with the TSX cams + K20A valvetrain I'd be able to take the engine to around 7700rpm which is where the RBC would really shine. The coilovers are Koni Yellows with Eibach Prokit springs.

I only took the car to Wakey once when it only had the RSB and managed a 1:19.0 with full interior. As it is now the car would probably crack a low 1:18 or very high 1:17, and I'd say that would be mostly due to the fact that mine weighs 50kg+ less than stock. With the coilovers and ECU tune I'd say a high 1:16 would be possible and with an LSD; low 1:16s.

Its surprising that ive never seen your car since you live in sydney...whens the next euro meet?? Do you know where you can purchase the tsx cams from? And why do you say your car is 50kg lighter than stock? if only our cars were 100-200kg lighter i reckon they would fly!!

[aaronng]

I only took the car to Wakey once when it only had the RSB and managed a 1:19.0 with full interior. As it is now the car would probably crack a low 1:18 or very high 1:17, and I'd say that would be mostly due to the fact that mine weighs 50kg+ less than stock. With the coilovers and ECU tune I'd say a high 1:16 would be possible and with an LSD; low 1:16s.

Let's do it let's do it!!! I'm in for it!

[bennjamin]

Let's do it let's do it!!! I'm in for it!

im waiting for you guys ! LEts do an open day ! Come on !

[integral90]

im waiting for you guys ! LEts do an open day ! Come on !

Let me drive your car and I'm in :D

[tron07]

If there is a all euro (slow) track day, I might come along with my stockie... or anyone willing to let me hitch along? I dont mind paying 1/2 cost and fuel up your car for you....

[aaronng]

If there is a all euro (slow) track day, I might come along with my stockie... or anyone willing to let me hitch along? I dont mind paying 1/2 cost and fuel up your car for you....

Come with your stockie and have fun. LOL. Not much fun sitting at the straight watching cars go by.

[jyh888]

yea lets do it, whens the next euro meet?? lets organise a Wakefield track day!!! definately up for it

[aaronng]

yea lets do it, whens the next euro meet?? lets organise a Wakefield track day!!! definately up for it

Keep a lookout for a wakefield track day in the upcoming events section. They usually need about 40-60 cars in a day, so it is better to piggyback on an existing event. Because our cars are not the quickest on the track, they usually lump all the Euros and slower cars in the same group. :)

I need to change my transmission fluid first. It is due for replacement.

[bennjamin]

how about we all go during a open day during the week ?

$110.00 no timing ( bring your own) but generally only a few cars during the entire day its great !

[aaronng]

how about we all go during a open day during the week ?

$110.00 no timing ( bring your own) but generally only a few cars during the entire day its great !

That will work as well. BTW, when are you doing DIY next? :p

[bennjamin]

erm. Next sat ? *shrugs*

[jyh888]

sounds good, what is the fastest time an euro ever got at wakefield?

BTW regarding the transmission, if i can get a full DC5R gearbox with LSD, clutch kit including flywheel etc, should that be able to be transplanted into my euro? (keep in mind that my car is auto trans, i dont need to change ecu do i?)

because if i can, i will change the gearbox when the car gets older in its age when the gearbox dies and i can also do an engine rebuild at the same time.

[aaronng]

sounds good, what is the fastest time an euro ever got at wakefield?

BTW regarding the transmission, if i can get a full DC5R gearbox with LSD, clutch kit including flywheel etc, should that be able to be transplanted into my euro? (keep in mind that my car is auto trans, i dont need to change ecu do i?)

because if i can, i will change the gearbox when the car gets older in its age when the gearbox dies and i can also do an engine rebuild at the same time.

Looking through Natsoft, I saw a high 1:16 before.
No, you cannot put a DC5R gearbox straight into your car as the mount is different. The case should be different too.

If you change from auto to manual, you will need a manual ECU.

[jyh888]

Looking through Natsoft, I saw a high 1:16 before.
No, you cannot put a DC5R gearbox straight into your car as the mount is different. The case should be different too.

If you change from auto to manual, you will need a manual ECU.

can i change the mounts to fit? and will i need a dc5r ecu or cl9 manual ecu? can ecus be directly be swapped like that?

theres many k24/dc5r gearbox swaps into ek/eg civics, so i believe it shouldnt be too hard to do it in a euro aswell. I will be doing when the car gets older as i want to keep it and not sell it. I just want to kno the process and whether if it is possible or not. Thanks aaronng

[aaronng]

can i change the mounts to fit? and will i need a dc5r ecu or cl9 manual ecu? can ecus be directly be swapped like that?

theres many k24/dc5r gearbox swaps into ek/eg civics, so i believe it shouldnt be too hard to do it in a euro aswell. I will be doing when the car gets older as i want to keep it and not sell it. I just want to kno the process and whether if it is possible or not. Thanks aaronng

Not sure if a company is selling mounts to use the k20 gearbox. You will need a CL9 manual ecu, matching immobiliser and matching transponder chip from inside the key.

It is not easy to replace it like in the EK and EG civics because of the tighter security and the fact that the Euro chassis is not popular for engine swaps.

[jyh888]

Not sure if a company is selling mounts to use the k20 gearbox. You will need a CL9 manual ecu, matching immobiliser and matching transponder chip from inside the key.

It is not easy to replace it like in the EK and EG civics because of the tighter security and the fact that the Euro chassis is not popular for engine swaps.

ahhh ok sounds like a lot of work, but ill be the first to try :) a higher revving k24 combined with a dc5r gearbox in a euro would be amazingly awesome! I will do more research and find out more into this and let you guys know. Appreciate your help.

[jyh888]

Ok guys ive done more research, and i was really interested in JDMyard's setup of the k24/dc5r gearbox. However, I was told that installing a dc5r gearbox in a cl9 is too much effort and not worth the cost and instead a CL7 (euro r) gearbox will be better.

JDMYard can source one for me for about $2.5k without flywheel/clutch etc. Now my question is since this is only the gearbox, what else do i need to complete the conversion. Can someone provide me a list of items i need.

Will i need to run a CL7 ecu or can i use a CL9 manual ecu? thanks

my budget for this is 4-5k, do you think this is do-able? it does not need to be done straight away nor am i in a rush, just want to collect information so i can start preparing and collecting these items for future build. thanks guys, please provide me your opinions

[e240]

So when are we all going to have an Euro trackday? :p

You do that! I'll bring the Aurion...

[oongie]

Logically I think you would need a CL9 ecu, as the CL7 is a K20 and the CL9 a K24.
Correct me if i'm wrong knowledgable ones.

[bennjamin]

thats a good thought - but the ECU is mostly relevant to the engine not the gearbox.

Like older cars doing a auto-manual conversion , you can use a manual ECU of the same model. And do some rewiring to configure the reverse signal sender , Park and neutral selection etc.

but for such a new car , i would strongly not recommend such a mod. It wont bring your 1/4 down or wakefield times down if at all. And the resale will be reduced too.
All for the price of possibly $3-5k all parts n labour at a workshop. Not worth it.

Just stay with your decision and drive auto and get as good as you can or sell it and get a manual car.

[jyh888]

thats a good thought - but the ECU is mostly relevant to the engine not the gearbox.

Like older cars doing a auto-manual conversion , you can use a manual ECU of the same model. And do some rewiring to configure the reverse signal sender , Park and neutral selection etc.

but for such a new car , i would strongly not recommend such a mod. It wont bring your 1/4 down or wakefield times down if at all. And the resale will be reduced too.
All for the price of possibly $3-5k all parts n labour at a workshop. Not worth it.

Just stay with your decision and drive auto and get as good as you can or sell it and get a manual car.

thanks for your input. I dont plan on selling this car at all, i will keep it for all my life lol. Why wouldnt it bring my 1/4 mile or wakefield times down? a 6 speed close ratio gearbox should be faster and also the lsd will give me better control on the track wont it? The car is still relatively new so i am not doing it straight away, i will most likely wait till the car is older but i am just researching into which parts i may need for the conversion.

Also if i do buy a manual euro, how do i change the gear ratios without replacing the whole box? i was thinking even if i do buy a manual i would need to buy a light flywheel/ HD clutch, LSD etc and all up + labour would still cost me at least $3k...

[bennjamin]

i stated "....wont....if at all". My point is for the effort you wont get such a bang for buck result. The Euro is a heavy fwd and the difference between an auto and modded manual isnt much over the 1/4 or at wakie. IMO stick with what you have or sell up and get something else

[oongie]

How about lightening the car up a bit as well...
if its a long term project as you've stated.

K20 / K24 frankenstein, is the go IMO,
But to do it properly its going to cost big $$,
You'll only end up using the block of the K24 for the displacement.
The other parts would be K20 parts.

[jyh888]

How about lightening the car up a bit as well...
if its a long term project as you've stated.

K20 / K24 frankenstein, is the go IMO,
But to do it properly its going to cost big $$,
You'll only end up using the block of the K24 for the displacement.
The other parts would be K20 parts.

yes thats what ill consider doing when i rebuild the engine :)

[aaronng]

my budget for this is 4-5k, do you think this is do-able? it does not need to be done straight away nor am i in a rush, just want to collect information so i can start preparing and collecting these items for future build. thanks guys, please provide me your opinions
What is the purpose of your build? What is your objective? Best 0-400m time? Circuit racing? Fastest Euro?

[jyh888]

What is the purpose of your build? What is your objective? Best 0-400m time? Circuit racing? Fastest Euro?

Yes i want a really fast euro mainly for track/circuit. And i do believe the euro is a very good base especially the chassis and doublewishbone front and rear suspension, its just that is heavy...if it could be stripped by 100/200kg, i think it will be a very amazing car.

[aaronng]

Yes i want a really fast euro mainly for track/circuit. And i do believe the euro is a very good base especially the chassis and doublewishbone front and rear suspension, its just that is heavy...if it could be stripped by 100/200kg, i think it will be a very amazing car.
Don't get all caught up by the double wishbone suspension. You will end up spending a lot of money on the car and when we both turn up at Wakefield, I will still match your time with my stock Euro just because I have more practice. Even worse, a $7000 EG with a D16Y, thick rear sway bar and coilovers will beat both our times!

If I were you, I would practice with your auto Euro on Wakefield, while you save up for the manual conversion and all the other goodies.

[aaronng]

You do that! I'll bring the Aurion...

Then I'll have to bring in the big guns (commodore) lol. I like Ben's suggestion of going on a weekday open day. Less people and cheaper. BYO GPS timing.

[akina]

Yea driver experience is very important.

Instead of preparing your car for the track like hardcore and assuming you have never been before, you should go as is and slowly adding those mods you have planned and experience the difference mod by mod. Your satisfaction would be much greater than jumping in there thinking you got the best car and a shit box pwnz you.

[jyh888]

yea thats true, i appreciate your input guys. Hurry up and book in a track day so we can all go! im really looking forward to it!

Are the stock pads ok for track?

[aaronng]

yea thats true, i appreciate your input guys. Hurry up and book in a track day so we can all go! im really looking forward to it!

Are the stock pads ok for track?

Stock pads are ok for 1 or 2 sessions. Then you will find that they don't bite anymore because of the overheating. If you thoroughly cool the brakes in between sessions, then it will be ok. But it is difficult unless you go for a looooooong drive. I tried driving for 10 minutes between session at the speed limit (I think was 80 or 100km/h) and the brakes were still not cooled down enough.

[jyh888]

Stock pads are ok for 1 or 2 sessions. Then you will find that they don't bite anymore because of the overheating. If you thoroughly cool the brakes in between sessions, then it will be ok. But it is difficult unless you go for a looooooong drive. I tried driving for 10 minutes between session at the speed limit (I think was 80 or 100km/h) and the brakes were still not cooled down enough.

What pads do use for track? Any others u would recommend? Are ebc any good? Btw ur track time is very impressive for stock car :)

[aaronng]

What pads do use for track? Any others u would recommend? Are ebc any good? Btw ur track time is very impressive for stock car :)

I used OEM pads the first time, then Hawk Ceramics for the next 5 times. Now I am on Project Mu NR but have not used it at track yet.

Hawk Ceramics are a pretty reasonable street pad for its price.

[akina]

What pads do use for track? Any others u would recommend? Are ebc any good? Btw ur track time is very impressive for stock car :)

Don't be fooled, his car is not stock :p

[aaronng]

Don't be fooled, his car is not stock :p

It makes about the same power as Damien's stock Euro. :zip:

[integral90]

It makes about the same power as Damien's stock Euro. :zip:

TUT TUT, look at your Aaron! Telling all these nice folks you did that time with a stock Euro, getting their hopes up and such... :p

[bennjamin]

any mods that dont increase power or drastically alter the power band arent really mods than put you above a stock car. Im sure we can all agree , when it comes to euros that your X time around Y track is a comparison on other euros no matter what the "mods"

[integral90]

Are you saying sways/coilovers/lsd have no bearing on your time around a track because they don't give you more power?

[bennjamin]

Are you saying sways/coilovers/lsd have no bearing on your time around a track because they don't give you more power?

Im saying , that in a (heavy) euro it isnt such a big difference in times :honda:

So , to not scare off noobs...you can get decent times in a overly stock euro:)

[akina]

Aaron also has ghetto intake, headers, clutch/fly, I'm sure they increase power or speed.

Also upgrading suspension/swaybar/LSD will improve your time at WP more than I/H/E...

[D R U]

Don't get all caught up by the double wishbone suspension. You will end up spending a lot of money on the car and when we both turn up at Wakefield, I will still match your time with my stock Euro just because I have more practice. Even worse, a $7000 EG with a D16Y, thick rear sway bar and coilovers will beat both our times!

If I were you, I would practice with your auto Euro on Wakefield, while you save up for the manual conversion and all the other goodies.

Yeah, dont start on the sussy modding route.. cause once you start.. you wont want to stop.. trust me this gets exxy..

My euro is auto as well, im heading to Marulan on the 20th of nov, ill let you guys know how i go. Im also saving for conversion, but i want to get the most out of my euro with what ive got now, so that means practice, practice practice..

[aaronng]

TUT TUT, look at your Aaron! Telling all these nice folks you did that time with a stock Euro, getting their hopes up and such... :p

Says the guy who got 1:19.1 in a heavy stock Euro Lux on the first time ever on track!!!!!! :p

[aaronng]

Aaron also has ghetto intake, headers, clutch/fly, I'm sure they increase power or speed.

Also upgrading suspension/swaybar/LSD will improve your time at WP more than I/H/E...

Intake made by hand = all sound no go
cheap headers = power loss due to leakage at the non-flat flange :(
clutch/fly = no difference on track. Good for breaking traction in 1st gear though, but no difference above 5000 rpm.

[aaronng]

with a upgraded rear swaybar :)

Oooh yeah. His swaybar was 2x heavier than the stock swaybar too!