Help with Civic D16A8 - not starting.

[5lam]

Hi Guys,
I just bought a 92 Civic EH9 sedan with a D16A8 engine.
I got it cheap as it wasn't running, and the kid had no idea what was wrong with it. Now I'm stumped too!
I did an ECU check, and everything came up fine - MIL just stayed on.
It's getting spark, i've replaced dizzy & rotor, its getting fuel, has power to the injectors, and as the plugs are wet I can only assume they are working. I've triple checked the plug leads, to make sure they are in the right order.
So what else could it be????? :confused:

The only other thing that I think is not normal, is when I turn the ignition on, the fuel pump comes on, and does not cut out. I was under the impression that it only stayed on momentarily to prime the system. Could this be the problem? How do I fix it?

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated, otherwise I'll have to get a mechanic out I guess!

Thanx in advance.

[bennjamin]

if the fuel pump stays on (as in whirls constant) the wiring has been played with and the fuel pump is wired to constant.

The car DOES turn over right just wont start ?If the plugs are wet , you have excessive fuel in the combustion chamber and there is no chance the engine will ignite. Clean the spark plugs , "start"the engine a few times with the dizzy disconnected and spark plugs out ( to vent some of the excess)
then hook up again and try again.

[5lam]

Yep, it turns over, and sounds as tho it wants to fire, but it just can't.
I'll check the pump this afternoon then, and try that :thumbsup:

[bennjamin]

REMEMBER to disconnect the dizzy ! So many times i have been thru a similar problem and fried a dizzy because it overheated !

PS let me know if you need a spare d16a8 dizzy as ive got one spare too.

[5lam]

Cheers Bennjamin! I'll let you know how I go.

[02gzm]

One of the relay switches in the main relay might be stuck closed. Would expain why it's over fueling and continues to run after the prime sequence is finished. Either swap out the main relay for another or check that the 5 and 7 pins on it aren't shorting together, bypassing the internal relay switch.

Another possible explanation could be that the relay might have broken the fuel pump circuit inside ages ago (most likely due to a dry solder join) and wouldn't close. So someone did a dodgey fix and jumped the 5 and 7 pins outside the relay to provide power to the pump, not realising that bypassing the main relay means the ECU can't control the fuel injection properly.

Either way try out a main relay from any other fuel injected EG. Won't be hard to come by.

This (http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainrelayoperation/badmainrelay.html) website will help show how the main relay works and what can cause it to stuff up. Will help explain what I was saying.

[5lam]

Can I buy a new main relay from say Repco, or Global?

[02gzm]

Would be easier to find/cheaper just grabbing one from a wreckers. It'll be located right next to the fuse box in an EG. This is a similar picture of one from USA. (Obviously it's on the other side of the car because it's left hand drive but you get the idea of where it is in relation to the fusebox).
http://causeforalarm.thecarthing.com/main_relay_kill/main_relay.jpg

[5lam]

Thanks 02gzm.
I'll check that out too.
Things like that I'd rather buy new though, as a wrecker will still sting me for it, and I can't guarantee it will be any better than the one I have.

[bennjamin]

Thanks 02gzm.
I'll check that out too.
Things like that I'd rather buy new though, as a wrecker will still sting me for it, and I can't guarantee it will be any better than the one I have.


if you have a friend with a EG , Ek or DC honda.....they have the exact same main relay. Borrow theirs and swap it and see if that works !

[02gzm]

It'd be good to borrow one if you know someone with a civic so you can test it out. If it is the problem and you know how, you could always just reflow the dry solder joins in your current main relay. Otherwise I'm pretty sure Honda might still be able to supply them. They used basically the same main relays in various models for over 10 years.

You'll still probably have to dry out the excess fuel like Ben said too. You'll know if it's the problem if the fuel pump primes and stops after 2 seconds like it's supposed to though.

[5lam]

No, all my mates are into V8's :rolleyes:
haha. All good. I mite try the solder trick first maybe and see how that goes. I'll check the pump too and make sure it hasn't been fiddled with.
Thanks for your help guys :D
I'll let you know if it works

[02gzm]

Oooh I just noticed in your first post you said the check engine light is staying on after the prime. That's a good indication that the main relay isn't working. It will do exactly the same thing if you disconnect it. Hopefully it's the problem as it's an easy fix. GL

[5lam]

Okay, I checked the main relay, and there were a few bits of solder that had cracked. I soldered it up, re-installed it, and the fuel pump still wouldn't turn off. Then after I checked the relay again, I noticed a wire coming from one of the wires connecting to another wire under the dash. I cut the connecting wire, and now the pump primes, then turns off.
However, it still wouldn't actually start. I checked for spark again, at the dizzy cap and plugs, and its very weak. Any ideas now??

[02gzm]

I'd say one problem is the cylinder's are still soaked in fuel. Leave the spark plugs out overnight so it can evaporate. Also did the engine check light go out finally?

When you say in your first post that you replaced the dizzy and rotor, did you mean the whole dizzy or just the cap?

[5lam]

Sorry, yeah dizzy cap. Check engine light always went out after a few seconds, even when the fuel pump didn't.
I'll leave the plugs out overnight, but it still doesn't explain why the spark is pretty much non existant now. I guess I'll have to replace the dizzy.

[02gzm]

It seems oddly coincidental that it's doing it after fixing the dodgy repair. Next to the pins on th underside of the main relay are numbers embossed in the plastic.
http://z.about.com/d/autorepair/1/0/U/8/58835672.gif
This pic might help explain.

What number wires were actually jumpered together? I was assuming 5 and 7 as this would make it have constant power from the ignition to the fuel pump. But it may have been one of the other circuits that controls the actual switch inside. Which in turn may be playing some part if one of the ECU connection's are shorting out during the starter or running sequences. i.e. a bad earth.

But otherwise I can post up how to test the coil, ICM and leads if you dont already have it and wanna test it all out for yourself.

[5lam]

It was number 7 wire, but it lead under the dash a short way to another random wire. It seems to me like something dodgy has been done to the relay, as there is a piece of wire wrapped around the guts of it, seemingly holding it together! I mite put some pics up. But the pump is working now, so the relay is obviously fixed and working properly. It doesn't control any ignition components does it??
That would be good if you could tell me how to check the coil, etc. :D

[02gzm]

It control's injector pulse so I'd assume it has some play in ignition firing.
There's a few different DIY's in the DIY section but I'll post up the pages out of the manual when I get home from work. I find it easier to follow.

Here's (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56224) a DIY to tide you over in the meantime. So you get the idea.
The service manual is a bit more in depth.

[5lam]

Thanx :cool:

[02gzm]

Here's (http://www.mediafire.com/?2eabiyjjbnz) the ignition system part of the EG manual you'll need to check your dizzy.

I just made it a pdf file and put it up on mediafire. It's 7mb. Sorry I took so long. Was making dinner :D

[5lam]

Well, after performing the tests on the ICM & coil, and showed up fine, I threw a new set of Platinum plugs in it, went over the timing once more, and eventually it roared to life!! I did as you said, and left the plugs out overnight, and cranked it for a while to get rid of any fuel in the chamber. It still took a good 5 or 6 goes before it actually started, but it seems to run fine now.
I'm still going to get my mechanic to give it the once over, and I have new leads on the way also, so it should go fine now *touch wood*
Thanks for all your help!! :thumbsup::wave::D

[02gzm]

Awesome!
No worries mate