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Weq
21-11-2004, 04:30 PM
Ok so the car is running fine. But we are having a problem checking/setting the base timing. When we jump what we think is the service connector - the car is warm, and at idle - the timing mark does not move at all. Is this what the service connector is supposed to do or should the timing mark move (advance/retard) when the connector is bridged? Otherwise, is the service connector just supposed to stop the computer from relearning after we set it.

Atm the red timing mark is a fair bit off the TDC mark, hoeever, the car is feeling fine. It rev's smoothly and willingly, and we cannot hear any pinging or knocking. The only difference is that is seems to be a little less willing to catch idle, and wanting to stall on de-acceleration (this could be just a fuel/air issue with the new cam, needs a tune)

So anyone got advice? in regards to setting timing properly. Also does anyone know the EXACT connector to jump - the EG VTi (94) has totally different color wiring to any pictures online (including the AUs Si) I think its the correct one (im jumping the 2 wire connector, not the 3 wire) as when i jump it the check engine light comes on.

PS im not throwing any codes.

DynoDave
21-11-2004, 05:52 PM
ECU-MAN will be your best bet in your question just PM him.
Regards Dyno Dave

ECU-MAN
21-11-2004, 09:03 PM
sounds like you got the short connector, 2 pin blue connector behind the pasangers side kick pannel next to the 3 pin connector. with no Codes in your ecu the engine check light should come on and stay on. engine warm ( thermo fans come on at least twice ). at this point your ready to check and adjust your timmig. with the timming light flashing on your pully you should be able to see your red timming mark. stop your engine and loosen the 3 bolts on your dizzy start he up and check the timming, advance or retard the timmign by moving the dizzy forwards or backwards to get it on the red mark. when your happy with your settings, tighten the three bolts then recheck the timming, coz sometimes by tightening the dizzy the timming will change.
now by shorting the short connector it will stop the ecu from chaning the timming so you can set/check the base timming.
Weq I know you have done some funky things to your head with you cam. if by turning the dizzy you cant get your timming mark right this could be due to the cam, all the above applies to a stock ecu/engine setup. so you will need to start looking at adjustable cam gear, with this cam you got the factory timming may not be the correct setting.

I always bypass VAFC and other junk when setting the base timming so im not fighting anything to get the timming right.

Weq
22-11-2004, 12:30 AM
Well yeah, i got the right connector then. My check engine stays on. Its real weird, the red timing mark is WAAAY off. i mean atleast 3cm to the firewall side of the arrow. So either i am doing something wrong and the timing is right (it was off that much i wouldnt be able to start the car even!) or i dont know..
My idle is fine now after driving for a while and the car is back to normal --- accept its overheating. Damn.. I am hopeing its the coolant. I used an old bottle of 33% mix and after around ~10-15mins of driving it struggles to hold a certain temp. It rises and falls really quick... It will rise unless i put on my heater and cost in a high gear, and its blown a bit out the overflow. It will overheat weather im boosting or not... Any suggestions? im gonna gran some nulon concerntrate tomorrow and flush the system again.

DR HONDA
22-11-2004, 09:42 AM
Well yeah, i got the right connector then. My check engine stays on. Its real weird, the red timing mark is WAAAY off. i mean atleast 3cm to the firewall side of the arrow. So either i am doing something wrong and the timing is right (it was off that much i wouldnt be able to start the car even!) or i dont know..
My idle is fine now after driving for a while and the car is back to normal --- accept its overheating. Damn.. I am hopeing its the coolant. I used an old bottle of 33% mix and after around ~10-15mins of driving it struggles to hold a certain temp. It rises and falls really quick... It will rise unless i put on my heater and cost in a high gear, and its blown a bit out the overflow. It will overheat weather im boosting or not... Any suggestions? im gonna gran some nulon concerntrate tomorrow and flush the system again.

The engine light should stay on when bridged if there are no dtc's. and if your mark is that far off it is more than likely that someone doesnt know how to line up there cambelts

Regards,


Dr Honda

Weq
22-11-2004, 10:07 AM
all our timing marks were exact. even after 4 or so revolutions, the timing was still TDC on cam and crank. I would of thought if the timing marks were that off, that the car would not crank at all.

DR HONDA
22-11-2004, 10:11 AM
A tooth either way will not stop it from starting.

Regards,


Dr :honda: :!:

Weq
22-11-2004, 10:49 AM
Will it cause any other signs? how far adjustment does the dizzy have in timing values?

wynode
22-11-2004, 12:00 PM
Will it cause any other signs? how far adjustment does the dizzy have in timing values?
Its arbitary. You need a proper timing light to tell the effect of turning the Dizzy.

wynode
22-11-2004, 09:24 PM
I am hopeing its the coolant. I used an old bottle of 33% mix and after around ~10-15mins of driving it struggles to hold a certain temp. It rises and falls really quick... It will rise unless i put on my heater and cost in a high gear, and its blown a bit out the overflow. It will overheat weather im boosting or not... Any suggestions? im gonna gran some nulon concerntrate tomorrow and flush the system again.

Try and flush it out soon and use a 50/50 ratio because that will not only keep your temps down, but also help lengthen the life of your seals (and the waterpump). Make sure you get all air out of the cooling system too :)

Weq
23-11-2004, 12:01 AM
a little update. put in a 50/50 nulon mix today. damn i couldnt access the drain bolt though (stupid turbo in the way) so the old coolant still lives. could only pull ~2L out of the 4l? ANyways did some testing tonight with boost and drives. hasnt overheated yet but the temps still look a little abnormal to me.. I put in a lot more boost then i had yesterday (when it overflowed alot of coolant in success) without spilling anything tonight, so i am quite happy and i think the problem lies within the sytstem still, and nothing to do with head lift under boost....

Anyone know how to full flush the system without undoing the drain bolt? i think i might give her to a mechanic to do along with the timing.. i have kinda had enough with this for the time being :)

wynode
23-11-2004, 08:20 AM
Weq, there should be another drain bolt near the oil filter (on the timiing belt side).

ECU-MAN
23-11-2004, 09:14 PM
Weq, I have seen in the past were some mechanics think the red mark is TDC and and line it all up like that, then the timming is out like how you say. but since you have an aftermarket cam, the slit cut in the cam for the distributor drive may be off causing your timming to be out. only way to compensate is to jump a few teeth on the timming belt or adjustable cam pully.

Weq
24-11-2004, 12:38 AM
so how do i know if my timing is out or not?? shouldnt i 'feel' it?? Im gonna research timing effects with this cam.
cheers

ECU-MAN
24-11-2004, 08:34 PM
your ignition timming is out, as the red mark being out is driven by the crank, so infact your are firing XX deg BTDC if the red mark is on the firewall side of the engine, how ever I really dont know bugger all about your camshaft so this could be by design, like you say do some research, you might find all your answers.

Weq
25-11-2004, 12:10 AM
ok so its retarded? after reading no one really has a problem settng 'base' timing on this cam. its going into the garage tomorrow to get 'fixed' as i cant be bothered with it anymore. My overheating problem is still around, but only after a hard run. I still think my thermofan/switch is the problem, but i dont know -- when its really hot, should the fan be on?? cause it isnt! The heat problems only start occouring once a large sum of water has been pushed out of the syustem into the overflow.. its possibly i have a leak somewhere 2...
either way im gonna give all this info to the mechanic (+a new thermoswitch) and let him deal with it. If i am infact running at retarded, this can also compile the heat problem.

cheers guys

Weq
26-11-2004, 01:16 AM
Updatye time.

car went into mechanics today. good guy! he cheked my timing, in the end it was only out a couple of deg's. he flushed the coolant, bleed, pressure tested and replaced the thermofan switch at my request. Still, i was biolding the coolant after a hard run or 2. He did a c02 test on the coolant, which came up negative - ruling out head lift under boost. the headgasket looks fine (just replaced!) The car behaved like normal when it wasnt driven hard, so it lead us to beleive that its a coolant flow problem.

I had the car without coolant (accept in the block) for probably a month. Our suspision is that there is a partial blockage somewhere - radiator or thermostat - which is causing me to boil the coolant (into the overflow) and consiquently overheat because the thermofan switch isnt beging actived due to the lack of coolant. So when i get some time and energy, i'll replace the 'stat and get the raditor flowed/cleaned.

in the mean time, she is fine for everyday driving.. a bit hotter then usual, but nothing alarming. In the runs i did get at 10psi, damn she felt strong. the new cam is really living up to expectations, very strong mid and top range now. the power i smoother then before. Coming onto full boost doesnt throw u back, as u are already being held back by the uprated midrange! the boost just tops it off..

wynode
26-11-2004, 01:46 PM
Damn sounds good........i'm also wondering what's causing your overheating. If its not a the cooling system.......could it be an oil flow problem? You don't have an oil pressure guage do u?

Weq
26-11-2004, 04:35 PM
its defaintly a cooling system problem.

2ds
26-11-2004, 07:40 PM
=)
always enjoy reading your threads weq, i learn somethign every time.

-2ds

ECU-MAN
26-11-2004, 09:19 PM
cool stuff,

just replace your thermostat, its the only thing left you havnt done. other than getting the radiator cleanned.

Weq
27-11-2004, 04:22 PM
wired up thermofan fulltime now. it overheated last night on a ~40mins trip. i never went into boost or over 2500rpm. So its defaintly a cooling system problem i rekon. The heatcore seems to be able to adequitly take out the extra heat and stablise the temps.

Just a question, is the radiator supposed to be warm/hot all over. cause today i was feeling through the thermofan while the car was off and most o the bottom of the rad was cool to touch. while the top of the rad was very hot and scalding? I knw the radiator is supposed to cool but is that right? i think it might be a blockage causing the cold spot?

ECU-MAN
28-11-2004, 11:18 PM
top of the radiator is the hottest part, thats one of the resons the top tanks crack.

2ds
29-11-2004, 03:43 PM
sounds sus to me, copper has very good thermal conductivity characteristics. without actually knowing anything about car radiators that sounds like way to much of a temperature difference over a relatively small area.

-2ds

Weq
30-11-2004, 12:29 AM
pulled the radiator off tonight as well as the thermostat. Ive never seen a radator bare and never new the cores were so thin! damn. no wonder these things get blocked easy.. taking the radiator in to get serviced tomorrow and rufes will hook me up with a new thermostat.. its hard working on the car, im doing 3pm-12am shifts at work everyday and i gotta get to the gym before hand.. slow and steady, slow and steay :)

karbonphyber
30-11-2004, 06:49 AM
i better check my engine then! haven't had coolant in it for almost a month!! goodness

Weq
30-11-2004, 05:38 PM
radiator turned out to be fine.. got a new thermostat today, gonna try it

Civic Type R
30-11-2004, 06:28 PM
sounds like you got the short connector, 2 pin blue connector behind the pasangers side kick pannel next to the 3 pin connector. with no Codes in your ecu the engine check light should come on and stay on. engine warm ( thermo fans come on at least twice ). at this point your ready to check and adjust your timmig. with the timming light flashing on your pully you should be able to see your red timming mark. stop your engine and loosen the 3 bolts on your dizzy start he up and check the timming, advance or retard the timmign by moving the dizzy forwards or backwards to get it on the red mark. when your happy with your settings, tighten the three bolts then recheck the timming, coz sometimes by tightening the dizzy the timming will change.
I always bypass VAFC and other junk when setting the base timming so im not fighting anything to get the timming right.Thats what my mechanic did. He set mine to 16. Apparantly it was 4 degrees out but im notsure in what direction.
Is it true to have say +2 on the intake and -2 on the exhaust and set it with a pair of adjustable cam gears ?

ECU-MAN
30-11-2004, 08:53 PM
depends on Cams, and how you tune it. Iv seen 7deg on intake before but wasnt on a stockie. I think you need to spend time on a dyno if you really want to find the best setting. but remember where you gain performance at a rev range you will loose performance else where.

Civic Type R
01-12-2004, 11:38 AM
this is on stock JDM ITR cams.
what settings would you be happy with these ?

ECU-MAN
01-12-2004, 11:20 PM
last set of CTR cams I put in I left at 0 deg, went ok but waiting for more mods to get it tuned.

Weq
01-12-2004, 11:29 PM
update:

new thermostat made no difference.. i knew the cooling system was fine.. damn.. looking at waterpump now or maybe the head..?

ECU-MAN
01-12-2004, 11:31 PM
:(

dahm

Weq
01-12-2004, 11:39 PM
can a head cause overheating? like without breaching the headgasket or anything?? overheating will occour on longer (20+min trips at low revs) or after about 5mins of hard runs... the heatcore whe opened&4 on the heater speed seems to be able to halt the overheating and bring it to halfway, if i sustain driving at low rpms... mabye i just got major airlock?? The cooling system should of been pressure tested, but i will double check on the radiator cap again. All i know is something is cooking the coolant causing it to overflow - which in turns stops the thermofan from working and consiquently starts to heat up.