do i need engineer certificate if i got b18c in to eg GLI?

[Mr Rzz]

hey
do i need engineer certificate if i got b18c in to eg GLI?

is GLI is 1.5 or 1.6?

[bennjamin]

gli = d15b7 = 1493cc
b18 = 1834cc

so that is more than 15%


(1 493 / 100) x 115 = 1716.95cc.....

1716cc is the largest increase in capacity you can go without engineering.

Look at a B16a engine perhaps , or spend more to engineer correct front and rear brakes to suit this larger engine capactiy increase.

[mocchi]

15% capacity increase isn't true in vic, that's what i know.

just to be clear so vic peeps don't get confused with other state laws.

[vampzzz]

victorian laws state that if the engine is an increase in displacement, and the engine wasn't an option to the car when the manufacturer released the car then you will need an engineers certificate.

[Sir_vtec]

gli is 1.5

[Mr EG]

How about a Honda Civic Si put in a B18C7, need cert?

[02gzm]

victorian laws state that if the engine is an increase in displacement, and the engine wasn't an option to the car when the manufacturer released the car then you will need an engineers certificate.

EG's never came out in Australia with B-series engines. And B18's never even came out in Civics. So yes, you'll need an engineers cert.

[EGJOE]

I doubt authorities would know the difference when they look at each motor. If you put a black cam cover on used oem mounts keep it stock looking they wouldn't have a clue.

[bennjamin]

guys everything i stated in the original reply is true. And the OP is in NSW so the +15% "optional engine" fact is correct.

[emanuera]

gli = d15b7 = 1493cc
b18 = 1834cc

so that is more than 15%


(1 493 / 100) x 115 = 1716.95cc.....

1716cc is the largest increase in capacity you can go without engineering.

Look at a B16a engine perhaps , or spend more to engineer correct front and rear brakes to suit this larger engine capactiy increase.

Hang on...
Just checked B18C WIKI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_B_engine#B18C2

B18A/B18B = 1834cc
B18C/C1/C2/C7 etc = 1797cc

still exceeds D15B equipped cars :(


How about a Honda Civic Si put in a B18C7, need cert?

EG VTi/SI = d16y1/D16A9 = 1590cc
B18C = 1797cc
(1590 / 100) x 115 = 1828.5 :eek::eek::confused::confused::):)


EG's never came out in Australia with B-series engines. And B18's never even came out in Civics. So yes, you'll need an engineers cert.

EG6 didn't come out in AUS?
Honda Ballade 180i B18B (Never came out in AUS)

SO......... What now? :p

[vampzzz]

b18b's came out in the integra GSI's did they not?

[dougie_504]

b18b's came out in the integra GSI's did they not?

Correcto :)

[dougie_504]

And I don't know about this but VicRoads doesn't seem to specify that the manufacturer had to release the car with the alternative engine on a domestic market...so I think putting a B16A in an EG civic would be fine as it came standard in the Type R in Japan.

What you might also be able to do is install a B16A2 engine from the Del Sol etc into an EG because I've heard the stamp on those Aus delivered B16A2s don't actually have the "2" in some cases from what I've heard...it just says "B16A" (will need somebody to confirm this).

[vampzzz]

And I don't know about this but VicRoads doesn't seem to specify that the manufacturer had to release the car with the alternative engine on a domestic market...so I think putting a B16A in an EG civic would be fine as it came standard in the Type R in Japan.

What you might also be able to do is install a B16A2 engine from the Del Sol etc into an EG because I've heard the stamp on those Aus delivered B16A2s don't actually have the "2" in some cases from what I've heard...it just says "B16A" (will need somebody to confirm this).

check again mate, i've been through it, got rejected from vicroads because my b18c7 was not an option to my ej8 from the car manufacturer being honda.


Change of engine
1. Replacement engine is identical to the original engine, or is an option allowed by the manufacturer for the same model vehicle
The optional engine must be offered in Australia by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle (or certified variants). The change of engine may be recorded by VicRoads provided that the registered operator or a motor mechanic, or dealer in that make of vehicle or an Automotive Engineer signs a declaration certifying the engine is optional for the vehicle model, and that all modifications made by the manufacturer for the same vehicle model with that optional engine have been completed.

You will need to attend a VicRoads Customer Service Centre to have the vehicle's engine inspected to confirm the new engine details. No appointment is required. You will also need to complete a Change of Vehicle Description form.

2. Replacement engine is not of a type offered by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle or where alterations, or changes to the vehicle's frame or structure are made, and/or specially fabricated supports or structures are used
You will need to attend a VicRoads Customer Service Centre for an inspection of the vehicle to confirm the new engine details. You will also need to complete a Change of Vehicle Description form and provide VicRoads with:

* a VASS Approval Certificate from a VicRoads Vehicle Assessment Signatory
* an original receipt for the purchase of the engine as proof of ownership of the engine

and if you still don't believe me it is extracted from here: http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/ChangeOfVehicleDetails/

[burner42]

check again mate, i've been through it, got rejected from vicroads because my b18c7 was not an option to my ej8 from the car manufacturer being honda.



and if you still don't believe me it is extracted from here: http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/ChangeOfVehicleDetails/

so what kind of headaches did you have to go through in order to get your b18c7 in your car then Vampzzz?

[dougie_504]

check again mate, i've been through it, got rejected from vicroads because my b18c7 was not an option to my ej8 from the car manufacturer being honda.

and if you still don't believe me it is extracted from here: http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/ChangeOfVehicleDetails/

Well I don't really need to check anything mate, I just just saying what I thought with the understanding that I could have been wrong.
And yeah but did the B18C7 come in the EJ8? What I was getting at is that I thought maybe you could do a B16A into an EG Civic as it was standard in the Civic Type R or whatever but according to your link it needs to be available to the model in Australia - not on an international scale.
The B18C7 would never be an option without a cert.

And relax, I believe you.

[Stig]

victorian laws state that if the engine is an increase in displacement, and the engine wasn't an option to the car when the manufacturer released the car then you will need an engineers certificate.

what about a k20a into a fd1? got me thinking since it is a original engine in a fd2r from honda but not in aus and k20z2 came in fd2

[dougie_504]

what about a k20a into a fd1? got me thinking since it is a original engine in a fd2r from honda but not in aus and k20z2 came in fd2


Yeah it might not work if the K20A isn't available in the FD1 in Australia, according to the link that Vamp supplied

[Stig]

actually it wont work, lol how gay


The optional engine must be offered in Australia by the vehicle manufacturer

[02gzm]

Jesus this is still going on.

Ok here is exactly what it says on the VicRoads vehicle modifications website (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/ChangeOfVehicleDetails/) as Vampzzz has already linked. Just to clarify again, as it's been pointed out numerous times in here already and still hasn't sunk in to some. Note the bolded points.


Change of engine

1. Replacement engine is identical to the original engine, or is an option allowed by the manufacturer for the same model vehicle
The optional engine must be offered in Australia by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle (or certified variants). The change of engine may be recorded by VicRoads provided that the registered operator or a motor mechanic, or dealer in that make of vehicle or an Automotive Engineer signs a declaration certifying the engine is optional for the vehicle model, and that all modifications made by the manufacturer for the same vehicle model with that optional engine have been completed.

You will need to attend a VicRoads Customer Service Centre to have the vehicle's engine inspected to confirm the new engine details. No appointment is required. You will also need to complete a Change of Vehicle Description form [PDF 24kb].

2. Replacement engine is not of a type offered by the vehicle manufacturer as an option for that vehicle or where alterations, or changes to the vehicle's frame or structure are made, and/or specially fabricated supports or structures are used
You will need to attend a VicRoads Customer Service Centre for an inspection of the vehicle to confirm the new engine details. You will also need to complete a Change of Vehicle Description form [PDF 24kb] and provide VicRoads with:

* a VASS Approval Certificate from a VicRoads Vehicle Assessment Signatory
* an original receipt for the purchase of the engine as proof of ownership of the engine

Here's (http://www.supernerd.com.au/~poida/gemini/VASS.html) the information on VASS certification and basically how it is the new RES (Recognised Engineering Signatory) scheme.

This means that yes, you will need certification to swap any B-series engine into an EG, a B18 into an EK or a K20A into a FD.


The next bit I'm goin to just quote myself from a previous discussion as I'm sure it has some relevance. Plus it will help clarify engine swaps for P-platers as it contains the national legislation for engine modifications.




Read this link. (http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP3_Section_LA_Engines_3Feb2006.pdf)

It is the engine modification section of the national legislation for light vehicle construction and modification.

Section 1.1

MODIFICATIONS NOT REQUIRING CERTIFICATION

• Fitting a replacement new, used or reconditioned engine.
• Fitting a manufacturer’s optional engine for that same model vehicle.
• Fitting replacement original equipment (or equivalent) engine & exhaust components.

In all of the above cases, if the engine is modified, it must be certified under the relevant Approval Code.

Section 1.2

MODIFICATIONS REQUIRING CERTIFICATION UNDER LA APPROVAL CODES

• Fitting equivalent engines (within 20% of original power and engine weight).
• Fitting performance engines.
• Modifying engines and engine components.

I'm assuming from the D16A8 you want to replace it's in an EG civic or crx? So in relations to your average pre-95 Honda engine swap, the only engines not requireing certification are replacement engines of the same type or manufacturer optioned engines, i.e. another D-series engine. EG6's (and EF8, EF9, etc.) were never released in Australia so technically you aren't even meant to have an un-plated B16 in a pre-95 Honda as they should be coded as a LA1 modification (equivalent engine within 20% of original power and weight).

Civic's never came out with either a B18C or a B20. And both of these engines are over 20% of the power output of a D16. So they are classified as performance engines under the legislation and require certification and a LA2 coded mod plate (same thing on the blue slip or whatever you guys call it down there).

Yes, your average cop may pass over an engine swap and not realise it didn't come like that from factory. But get an asshole, sent to the pits or pulled over by a department of transport inspector and it won't end well. And with the way that you P-platers are targetted these days it isn't worth the risk imo. Remember, it isn't illegal do do the engine swap. It's illegal for a P-plater to drive a LA plated car.

[vampzzz]

so what kind of headaches did you have to go through in order to get your b18c7 in your car then Vampzzz?

still haven't got it registered yet as i don't have the funds to get an engineers atm.


what about a k20a into a fd1? got me thinking since it is a original engine in a fd2r from honda but not in aus and k20z2 came in fd2

it should work as its the same displacement, only when you increase the displacement will you need an engineers certificate. i'm not sure though, so if anyone can confirm?


Well I don't really need to check anything mate, I just just saying what I thought with the understanding that I could have been wrong.
And yeah but did the B18C7 come in the EJ8? What I was getting at is that I thought maybe you could do a B16A into an EG Civic as it was standard in the Civic Type R or whatever but according to your link it needs to be available to the model in Australia - not on an international scale.
The B18C7 would never be an option without a cert.

And relax, I believe you.

nah, didn't mean it like that mate. just wanted to explain what i was saying. all good.

[mocchi]

it should work as its the same displacement, only when you increase the displacement will you need an engineers certificate. i'm not sure though, so if anyone can confirm?



15% capacity increase isn't true in vic, that's what i know.

just to be clear so vic peeps don't get confused with other state laws.

i hope hes not in vic.

[02gzm]

it should work as its the same displacement, only when you increase the displacement will you need an engineers certificate. i'm not sure though, so if anyone can confirm?



This means that yes, you will need certification to swap any B-series engine into an EG, a B18 into an EK or a K20A into a FD.


Read my big post above.

[ek9vtec]

still haven't got it registered yet as i don't have the funds to get an engineers atm.



where in melb can you get an engineers? is it hard?

[02gzm]

VASS approval stations pdf. Clicky (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/78235D1F-3D90-47EE-9E10-5BFE46D55871/0/VASSList30Sept2009.pdf)

[vampzzz]

Jesus this is still going on.

Ok here is exactly what it says on the VicRoads vehicle modifications website (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/Registration/ChangeOfVehicleDetails/) as Vampzzz has already linked. Just to clarify again, as it's been pointed out numerous times in here already and still hasn't sunk in to some. Note the bolded points.



Here's (http://www.supernerd.com.au/~poida/gemini/VASS.html) the information on VASS certification and basically how it is the new RES (Recognised Engineering Signatory) scheme.

This means that yes, you will need certification to swap any B-series engine into an EG, a B18 into an EK or a K-series into a FD.


The next bit I'm goin to just quote myself from a previous discussion as I'm sure it has some relevance. Plus it will help clarify engine swaps for P-platers as it contains the national legislation for engine modifications.

so in saying this would i need an engineers certificate to swap a JDM B18CR into an aus delivered integra type R?

[02gzm]

Technically, yes. But in this case you could almost guarantee that it would never be picked up through inspection. I also don't see why anyone would spend that much money on the engine swap when they could spend it on mods and see better results.

[vampzzz]

then i doubt a k20z to a k20a will be noticed?

[02gzm]

B18C7's look identical to B18C's and they both have 'B18C' in the engine number.

K20Z2's look slightly different to K20A's and the engine number's contain different letters. I guess you could get away with it if you painted the rocker cover and changed the plastic intake cover but I still don't see this conversion being done due to the costs involved. I'd be more inclined to find out if a head conversion was possible. That way you'd retain the block stamp and theoretically it would be cheaper. I've slightly changed that post from before too just for future reference.

[vampzzz]

no worries mate, just wanted to make sure.

[grifty]

so in NSW you only need an engineers cert if the displacement increases by 15%?

[bennjamin]

so in NSW you only need an engineers cert if the displacement increases by 15%?


As my first reply in this post states , entirely relevant as the OP is in NSW too.

Short answer

IF the car is replaced with an engine that is the same age or NEWER , an option for the chassis AND is within +15% increase , it is fine to install without need of engineering. You will have to change the engine number with the RTA.



gli = d15b7 = 1493cc
b18 = 1834cc

so that is more than 15%


(1 493 / 100) x 115 = 1716.95cc.....

1716cc is the largest increase in capacity you can go without engineering.

Look at a B16a engine perhaps , or spend more to engineer correct front and rear brakes to suit this larger engine capactiy increase.

[Key]

Hey guys, just one question.
So wt should I do with the rego if I put a B16A2 in a EG Si?? (in Victoria)

[02gzm]

Hey guys, just one question.
So wt should I do with the rego if I put a B16A2 in a EG Si?? (in Victoria)

You need a VASS certificate to legally register it and have it mod plated with a LA1 engine code. Read the posts on the previous page.

[grifty]

As my first reply in this post states , entirely relevant as the OP is in NSW too.

Short answer

IF the car is replaced with an engine that is the same age or NEWER , an option for the chassis AND is within +15% increase , it is fine to install without need of engineering. You will have to change the engine number with the RTA.

So that means if i was to drop a B18c into my concerto i will need to get an engineers certificate because the engine was not an option on its chassis?

[Key]

You need a VASS certificate to legally register it and have it mod plated with a LA1 engine code. Read the posts on the previous page.

SO the VicRoad staff will inspect my car when I submit the form? just afraid my car will get defected-.-

[02gzm]

Grifty - Yes

Key - Yes. It's not like you're being sent to the pits to be checked. Most of the people on that list will just be registered engineers at workshops around Vic. What's done to your car? If it's relatively stock it'll be fine. If you're unsure call one of them up and ask what's involved.

I'm up in Bris but when I went to get my car mod plated the engineer saw that I'd taken the air con out and said that with a nice big gap like that I should strap a snail onto it :p
They aren't a bunch of hardasses. They're just like your average mechanic.

[grifty]

Nah no mods done to it atm its pretty much stock, but i just wanted to know for future upgrades like a B18c later on

[Key]

Grifty - Yes

Key - Yes. It's not like you're being sent to the pits to be checked. Most of the people on that list will just be registered engineers at workshops around Vic. What's done to your car? If it's relatively stock it'll be fine. If you're unsure call one of them up and ask what's involved.

I'm up in Bris but when I went to get my car mod plated the engineer saw that I'd taken the air con out and said that with a nice big gap like that I should strap a snail onto it :p
They aren't a bunch of hardasses. They're just like your average mechanic.

I got Tein coilover, CAI, front sturt bar. Is that too much-~-? the engine is stock

[02gzm]

it'll be fine. Even if they were a hardass, they'd only care about is emissions as you're going in for engine conversion engineering

[Mr EG]

So if I drop at B18C7 in my Honda Civic Si, can I drive around with it having no engineer cert yet and not reg? What happens if I run into the cops?

[02gzm]

If you drive around with an unregistered car prepare to have the car impounded, cop a massive fine and enough points to probably lose your license if caught.

[grifty]

Driving an unregistered and uninsured vehicle is also an offence attracting on the spot infringement notice fines of at least $972 ($486 for being unregistered and $486 for being uninsured). If the matter goes to court, the maximum fine is $2200 for driving unregistered and $5500 for driving uninsured.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/otherinformation/drivingunregistered.html?rlid=2

Why not just rego it with stock engine and then drop the B18C7 into it, then next time pink slip is due u would of have saved up enough for an engineers cert.

[02gzm]

Having an engine in a car that is registered with another engine will have you ending up with the same penalty if found out by the authorities. It's got nothing to do with rego renewal. You're meant to notify the department of transport as soon as the engine is swapped.

[SUSMZR]

It doesn't matter if it excedes the 1.5 it's based on the model which means any EG is based on 1.6L and 15% above that ..

Read it properly its the same with wheels .. If a base model has 15s but the top model had 18" you on your base model can go up to 21" legally ..

You need to understand and read the laws properly ..

B20 or above including k swap need cert ..

B16 B18 are fine for any eg including the 1.3carby and should just need a blue slip cleared ..

[SUSMZR]

Shit old thread stupid tapatalk showed it as new

[a1983p]

Just letting you know Victoria's allowed power increase is 20%
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/9B3A858D-15A0-4572-90BF-3D08214BF7BE/0/VSInumber8Guidetomodificationsformotorvehicles.pdf
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