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Jus-10
22-11-2004, 06:53 PM
Just a brief update for anyone that is interested in the progress of my ride.

I had a 2" stainless mandrel bent cat back system installed on Saturday at Hitech Mufflers in Darlinghurst. Awesome job. Perfect sound and top-notch finish. Pics will come soon.

I have just come back from having the V-AFC 2 installed and dyno-tuned at Croydon Racing Developments.

All I can say, is that it is a new car to drive. All you haters of the V-AFC2 can go eat a d*ck. Yeah it's not the best bang for your buck mod, but it has brought my exhayst and intake mods together beatifully. The car runs so much smoother, low end response and throttle response is fantastic. Response under load is amazing.....

Whilst I am not one for bragging about dyno readings, I am of the firm belief that they should be used as a tuning tool first and foremost. The power curve is very linear with only a slight dip as vtec engages.

For those that are interested in the figure, I achieved a peak reading of 101.3hp at the wheels on a Dyno Dynamics dyno....not too shabby considering the official flywheel reading from Honda is 108hp.

Anyway pics will be up soon.

The P1s are now on as well...so that about finishes my mods for the time being. I have spent enough money on it the past couple of days to keep me out of trouble for a while...

VTi-RT
22-11-2004, 07:15 PM
Congrats :)

Did you do a dyno run before the tune?
Do you have the dyno sheet?

TypeG
22-11-2004, 07:26 PM
nice man
pic pls.....
nice figure for the mod and what muffler u got at the back?
what is the stock pipe size and what do u think of 2.25 pipe?
u got any diagram for vafc2?

Catcha
22-11-2004, 08:31 PM
sounds pretty good, should expect even better fuel economy with the tune now hey

MRFIT
22-11-2004, 09:28 PM
Congrates!

I wonder how much kw is stock jazz got at wheels..... PICs plz..... and dyno graph would be more than welcome.... thanks in advance...

spoon fit
22-11-2004, 10:37 PM
sound good..how much u bought for the cat-back?

Catcha
23-11-2004, 01:03 AM
how much did the hi-tech exhaust cost ya, they are simply awesome mufflers not too loud or soft..great sounds..did get you whole exhaust done or just mufflers, how about extractors ?

Jus-10
23-11-2004, 06:02 PM
It's a cat back system...super-quiet, but I paid for it. It cost $1,100, but I got the exact effect I was after. Quiet, subtle and excellent flow

I will have to scan the dyno graph when I have more time. I also need to get some pics of the exhaust too...

Unfortunately I didn't get a before dyno print-out and I wasn't there to see it....I wish I had got it dyno'd before any of the mods though.

I just wanted to say a big thanks/props to Hitech and CRD. I am usually quite hesitant to go to big shops as I am a bit pedantic. Both these shops are 100% professional and were very approachable at all times. Croydon were a bit slow (they always have been) but it was worth it. My car ended up being tuned by Jim Souvas (owner of CRD and renowned tuner of GTR-700, DVLISH, RH9 amongst others) so I definately feel like I got my $$$ worth. They also cost a bit more than some of the other places I approached but I guess it's like anything, you pay for the name.....they were also the only ones that offered advice, explained the whole process and didn't make me feel like I was wasting my time with the V-AFC2 like certain other shops in Sydney.

On a rather disappointing note, after fitting the P1s and finally thinkking the spending was finished, I went to take the car for a spin only to find it reversed with great difficulty. I removed the front rims to find that they were hitting the bottom of the brake caliper. I now have a gouge going around half of the inside of 2 of my rims. It's not really noticeable unless you look through the spokes, but now I can't use them!

So the answer? I will be fitting a set of Gram Lights 57s this Saturday and then that should be it!

Pics will probably be up this weekend...

TypeG
23-11-2004, 06:11 PM
hitting the bottom of the brake caliper????
i dun understand what do u mean?

pic pls..........

spoon fit
23-11-2004, 06:21 PM
$1100....for the custom!? umm...

tanghy
23-11-2004, 08:51 PM
the spokes don't have enough clearance? thus hitting caliper

TypeG
24-11-2004, 02:22 PM
oic
then pic plssssssssssssss
i want to see how low is yr car....

muli
24-11-2004, 06:25 PM
any change of you getting audio of the exhaust system?

Jus-10
24-11-2004, 08:36 PM
No audio system...weighs the car down too much.

It's not the spokes that are hitting the caliper...there is no problem with the offset, it is just the design of the wheel. When I get pics up you will see.

Gram Lights here I come.

TypeG
24-11-2004, 08:55 PM
Jus, can u do me a favour?
coz i really want to know the wiring for VAFC.....

muli
25-11-2004, 07:47 AM
[QUOTE=Jus-10]No audio system...weighs the car down too much.

QUOTE]

im not sure if you misundestood me, i mean some kind of audio clip of the exhaust in action

Jus-10
26-11-2004, 07:13 PM
Ahhh sorry man....not yet.

TypeG I'll have to get the booklet out and have a look for you and see what it says.

TypeG
26-11-2004, 11:29 PM
yes pls
coz i no way to get a digram even from vafc2 booklet

Catcha
27-11-2004, 12:16 AM
yes pls
coz i no way to get a digram even from vafc2 booklethave your tried apexi site ?
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[url="http://www.apexi.com"]www.apexi.com (http://www.apexi.com/)

TypeG
27-11-2004, 01:15 AM
i tried
i download the Vafc2 version instruction booklet but i cant find any diagram regarding to which wires to connect on a GD coz I think VAFC will have the same wiring diagram as version 2 but with extra function.
Thx Jus

petrovski
27-11-2004, 03:41 AM
type g - you've prob said why before but, why don't you get it installed and dyno tuned at somewhere like crd in melbourne?

btw i have a video clip of jus-10's car on the dyno that i took from my mobile phone. . .

Pete :)

TypeG
27-11-2004, 12:26 PM
LOL
coz they charge a bit if u need them to install which I can save myself a lunch box if I can install myself. PLus my car isnt ready for tuning since header still not arrived yet thus exhuast cant be done without that so i want to connect it for some ricy look first
ehehehehehehe

muli
29-11-2004, 01:26 PM
jus-10 is the exhaust system welded or bolt on?

Jus-10
29-11-2004, 06:44 PM
To be honest muli I'm not sure....I haven't had a chance to get under and look too closely, but I do know that it is one piece from the cat back. Sorry guys I still need to get some pics...I've been a bit lazy.

TypeG - I had a look through the box and it seems they didn't put the booklet with the wiring diagram back in the box and thus I don't have it! I have 3 books and none of them have the diagram in it. Sorry man...

TypeG
29-11-2004, 06:53 PM
it is okay.....
i see if anyone got....
but u sure brand new vafc2 got it?
coz i try to download in apexi but i cant have in that doc

Jus-10
01-12-2004, 08:14 PM
I'm sure man...I saw the diagram of the ECU....

It was in Jap though so didn't mean too much to me....

rokkuchan
06-12-2004, 09:43 PM
Hey Just-10, can u copy down your settings of the VAFC2 here?
The settings for the air correction factor, vtec changeover points, fuel correction, throttle position, correction RPM of both Hi and Lo cam?

You said these are set by CRD? Just wanna compare the settings that these guys set for me in ADL...To be honest, I don't think they have a clue what they were doing so I'm just gonna try see if any performance change from your settings...
They didn't even do any DYNO for me... I felt the torque was a bit better but switching 2nd to 3rd gear gets a little jerky??? It didn't happen before I got it installed... right now, I got the thing uninstalled, well unhooked the wires to reset back to factory settings...gonna find other shops to tune it for me...

Thanks.

Jus-10
07-12-2004, 07:04 PM
The only thing I know is that vtec comes in at 3000rpm and drops off at 2800 I think...

To be honest, I can't see that by using my my settings will necessarily work on your car, as mine may or will most probabaly be different with my exhaust and intake amongst other factors....

Plus I wouldn't know where to find them and I'm not too keen on playing around with it in case I hit something I shouldn't....

TypeG
08-12-2004, 12:40 AM
do u have any dyno sheet for us to see?

muli
28-01-2005, 06:58 PM
hows your fuel consumption now that you've had the car for a while since you did the mods? you still staying under 3000rpm :)

sharo
14-04-2005, 02:29 AM
jus, u mentioned sumthing about the rim hitting the brake caliper. My friend has had the same problem too, he got balckracing 17"on. Spacer was installed to overcome the problem. Have to admit his car looks good.

sharo
14-04-2005, 02:31 AM
one quick question, is it necessary to dyno once u got the vafc2 installed?

edw-R
14-04-2005, 02:43 AM
100+ hp at the wheel. It is a pretty good power for Jazz ( light weight ). Great Job!! Hope can see your dyno sheet soon.

Jus-10
14-04-2005, 03:21 PM
What's with reviving all these old threads lately??

Sharo - the V-AFC is tuned oin the dyno

Power figures are coming up a bit now thanks to a new intake, but just waiting on a final tune. WIll get new details up but they will prob be in a new thread detailing the intake...

Zimp13
14-04-2005, 04:12 PM
The only thing I know is that vtec comes in at 3000rpm and drops off at 2800 I think...

To be honest, I can't see that by using my my settings will necessarily work on your car, as mine may or will most probabaly be different with my exhaust and intake amongst other factors....

Plus I wouldn't know where to find them and I'm not too keen on playing around with it in case I hit something I shouldn't....

to be honest 2... i think thats just ur excuse really.... anyone can check the setting set in the vafc2 easily...

plus its better for u to write down ur setting on the manual (english can be donwloaded through the net) just in case (ex: accidently reset by others or urself). if u need to double check the setting on the vafc u can checked it based on the written setting that u have done. u not gonna dyno tuned the setting again if u wanna make sure that the setting is the same as the first one.

as for ur setting whether or not will necessarily work on other jazz is another story. unless ur car is heavily mod (internal engine is involved), i would say ur setting will be beneficial for other jazz with more or less the same mod (header, pod, exhaust).... definitely having ur vafc setting is better than no setting of the vafc at all... different brand of exhaust and intake will only make very very minor difference in the setting. Finally, if others try ur setting and feel that they still need the dyno tuned done, then its their problems anyway....

Jus-10
14-04-2005, 07:32 PM
What's with the attitude buddy...

Time for me to be honest.....I went to the trouble and expense for it to be tuned so why should I go give out the figures/settings to everyone else?

And no its not an excuse...use some common sense. If you know so much about how these things work, you will understand that there are many variables when it comes to tuning a car. OK my settings might be a bit of a base setup for someone else, but they won't be perfect.

Given that it is an Air Flow Controller, and given that I have a different intake setup to everyone else and a different exhaust system to everyone else, please tell me how my settings will be appropriate for other Jazz owners?

Whilst the V-AFC/2 is a relatively simple piggy-back system, to get the most out of it you still need to have it tuned correctly.

Apart from that, I don't see why I have to justify not releasing the details.

Zimp13
14-04-2005, 09:28 PM
What's with the attitude buddy...

Time for me to be honest.....I went to the trouble and expense for it to be tuned so why should I go give out the figures/settings to everyone else?
And no its not an excuse...use some common sense. If you know so much about how these things work, you will understand that there are many variables when it comes to tuning a car. OK my settings might be a bit of a base setup for someone else, but they won't be perfect.

Given that it is an Air Flow Controller, and given that I have a different intake setup to everyone else and a different exhaust system to everyone else, please tell me how my settings will be appropriate for other Jazz owners?

Whilst the V-AFC/2 is a relatively simple piggy-back system, to get the most out of it you still need to have it tuned correctly.

Apart from that, I don't see why I have to justify not releasing the details.

Jus 10.... first i dont have any attitude... look at all my posts in any thread that u can find.... if u call this attitude read again..... if u cant handle such a simple comment then u are the one who has the attitude.... i am simply making a comment or perhaps even a fact.... how u gonna accept my comment represents your own attitude....

secondly, Time for me to be honest.....I went to the trouble and expense for it to be tuned so why should I go give out the figures/settings to everyone else? . thats more like it.... the true reason..... not excuse anymore....

thirdly, I don't see why I have to justify not releasing the details. of cos, its ur right as u said u paid for it.... y share with others????

i do apologise if u think i am having an attitude towards u but i dont.... this is a forum.... everyone reads it.... and i just think that the excuses u provided in the first place just didnt make any sense......

Catcha
16-04-2005, 02:08 PM
to be honest 2... i think thats just ur excuse really.... anyone can check the setting set in the vafc2 easily...

plus its better for u to write down ur setting on the manual (english can be donwloaded through the net) just in case (ex: accidently reset by others or urself). if u need to double check the setting on the vafc u can checked it based on the written setting that u have done. u not gonna dyno tuned the setting again if u wanna make sure that the setting is the same as the first one.

as for ur setting whether or not will necessarily work on other jazz is another story. unless ur car is heavily mod (internal engine is involved), i would say ur setting will be beneficial for other jazz with more or less the same mod (header, pod, exhaust).... definitely having ur vafc setting is better than no setting of the vafc at all... different brand of exhaust and intake will only make very very minor difference in the setting. Finally, if others try ur setting and feel that they still need the dyno tuned done, then its their problems anyway....

Are you a tuner ??? what happens if Jus-10 give out some settings and someone cars stuffs up and runs into trouble, who is liable? i'm sure the person would be saying, I got it from Jus-10 and his car is similar to mine It should work fine.

I can tell you now that tuners will not tune a ECU that they are not authorised or ceritfied to do so, even though they can , the consequenses of something going wrong and copping the liability is not worth it.

TypeG
16-04-2005, 03:33 PM
well, it is a forum for Jazz and some people who may interested to share their details of their ride and some didnt like to do so. but to be honest, it is really easy to get the setting from the vafc2 and post it out if u want share any info with other Jazz owner in Oz. If anyone fxxk up the car by copying the setting, Jus is obviously dun need to pay any responsibilities since he is just sharing info.

but some setting will be useful for comparing between two cars with vafc2 tho and I would like to see something similar as well

Catcha
16-04-2005, 04:23 PM
well, it is a forum for Jazz and some people who may interested to share their details of their ride and some didnt like to do so. but to be honest, it is really easy to get the setting from the vafc2 and post it out if u want share any info with other Jazz owner in Oz. If anyone fxxk up the car by copying the setting, Jus is obviously dun need to pay any responsibilities since he is just sharing info.

but some setting will be useful for comparing between two cars with vafc2 tho and I would like to see something similar as well

I don't know how complicated a Vafc2 is compared to a AVC-R boost controller for a turbo car is. But i can tell you right now, if i had of given my settings to some guy from my previous car that didn't have a clue what they were doing and just wanted to comapre cars, He would not have a car right now or engine should i say. Cause even though the mods are the same there are so many variables in a tuned that just can't be copied.

The VAFC2 controls air/fuel. now without a dyno tune you not going to know if your car is running lean or rich...well rich yes when you see you exhaust tips black and smell excess fumes. obviously Jus has taken the road to get it done by experts and has supporting mods to go with it. His car might be tuned in a way that is suited to only his car. Getting the car tuned on certain fuel eg. Ultimate. Then next day putting optimax might make the car ping cause it was tuned on Ultimate only.

But if it was your mate that copied your settings and his car fu#ed up would you fell bad or tell him it was at his own risk and was not my fault. Or would you give him the good advice of seeking expert opinion for his car and his mods

ahcash
16-04-2005, 04:42 PM
I think it is very simple :

1. Share out the info.. if you are willing to.. if not, he has every single right not to share out...After all, he paid for it..

2. Copy at your own risk...

Zimp13
16-04-2005, 06:23 PM
Are you a tuner ??? what happens if Jus-10 give out some settings and someone cars stuffs up and runs into trouble, who is liable? i'm sure the person would be saying, I got it from Jus-10 and his car is similar to mine It should work fine.

I can tell you now that tuners will not tune a ECU that they are not authorised or ceritfied to do so, even though they can , the consequenses of something going wrong and copping the liability is not worth it.

first of all, i do believe in free information. Example the resetting of ECU and CVT that i posted. i didnt encourage people to try that and if i did, i would have written there. i leave it to the readers to decide for themselves as different people would have different opinions or views. am i gonna be liable for posting the info if someone tried it and destroyed the ecu or cvt????

secondly, i have used vafc before and this product has been in the market for ages. i am certainly no qualified tuner but i have tried tuning the vafc by myself and so far the worst that it did was causing the engine to run rough. this is y personally i do think that jus10 setting would be beneficial for those who has the same or similar setting. i think that two jazzes with the same or similar pod should not have dramatic results in the tuning of the vafc. of course, again, i am certainly not advising people to do this on his own. some people might say yes and some might say no.... again, let the reader decides...

look, the main issue was rokkuchan asking jus10 for his setup... Hey Just-10, can u copy down your settings of the VAFC2 here?
The settings for the air correction factor, vtec changeover points, fuel correction, throttle position, correction RPM of both Hi and Lo cam?. rokkuchan may wanna try jus10 setting and i just feel i need to justfiy some of jus10 comments. thats all. didnt mean to create any fuss at all.

as for the tuner, i dont even know there is any apex'i authorised or certified tuner in melbourne to start with.

rokkuchan... if u dyno ur vafc2 and i am gonna dyno mine pretty soon, we change the setting info ok???? lets say we get a few more people to exchange setting info, in no time we would be able to tune the vafc for jazz... this is y some people (not authorised nor certified) can tune vafc on road...... if these settings are available in this forum, anyone can analyse the different setting with diffirent mods.... this would either increase our knowledge in tuning vafc or we would have many vafc tuner.... :D

Zimp13
16-04-2005, 06:27 PM
turbo car is certainly more dangerous in the setting that na car (namely vafc and avcr)... i have seen turbo car being over boost using avcr and melted the pistons... for vafc i certainly havent heard its done any serious damage before.....

toE
16-04-2005, 07:03 PM
What's with reviving all these old threads lately??


I've added a FAQ/Useful Information thread as a sticky, and clearly this shows users/members have been finding that useful, hence reviving old threads to clear up some further questions.

:)

Catcha
16-04-2005, 08:08 PM
as for the tuner, i dont even know there is any apex'i authorised or certified tuner in melbourne to start with.

:D

Technik Tuning in Vic CRD and MRT in NSW. Authorised or certified with a certificate or not, they are one of the industry most know performance shops in Australia. But they can tune many types of ECU, and are not afraid to back it up with aftersales service.

Tuning can be very expensive when it has to be done over and over again...I know MRT charges $120hr....CRD and so on would be slightly less i would assume tuning minimum 2hrs and dyno hire.... So if Jus spends an average without knowing poeople in there and getting mates rates $300 for a day for a tune, I would be incline to give out settings as well. firstly I have spent my hard earned dollars on it and secondly, If one works for one does not mean it work for another. that's the point I am trying to get at.

I have seen people take on others peoples setting and have disasterous effects, it may not do much in the short term but having you car idle or run roughtly musn't be doing your engine any good either, it all has some bearing to the realiability of you engine down the track.

Jus-10
16-04-2005, 08:18 PM
Zimp I understand what you're saying. Sorry for biting your head off. Yes I too believe in free information, but comparing an ecu reset method (which is pretty much common knowledge across alot of car makes) is a bit different to the tuned settings on a piggy back computer (or whatever) that someone has actually paid for. That is, the information is no longer actually free! (Well I didn't get it free)

At the end of the day though, it shouldn't really matter what my settings are. OK, it's fine that some people think that the info should be shared. That is their prerogative. But to me it should be looked at as a complete package.

As an example, go out and drive a Jazz with a 2.25" exhaust and then go drive a Jazz with a 2" exhaust. Come back and tell me how different the 2 perform and then try and convince me that the settings on my V-AFC2 would work OK for both systems!

At the end of the day, sure, I can post up my settings, but will it make a difference to anyone's cars anyway? To most people the information will be useless. What are you going to do, put my settings in to your car, take it for a spin and decide based on that that it "feels" better or worse??? You won't know if the car is running rich/lean or whatever.

What we should be looking at is the whole package of each car for comparative figures. For example, I have a custom exhaust and custom intake with V-AFC2 with 73.2kw at the wheels.

Then someone else, like TypeG might have Spoon headers, X-Force exhaust, SPoon filter, e-Manage with 75.4kw at the wheels. (just an example)

So you see what I'm saying?

If someone wants to post up their settings, by all means. Would I use someone else's details to "see how it goes"? No way! If it is tuned correctly by a competent tuner, you should be able to see how it performs.

A better idea would be for everyone to compare dyno printouts so we can see each person's car is performing based on their mods tuning. We would be able to see the power curve, torque, etc and make comparisons that way....we can then make comments on what we could look at improving from there....

Zimp13
16-04-2005, 08:38 PM
yeah.... everyone has their point of view.... i have tuned my car at Technik Tuning (A.R.T) before, namely SAFC, AVCR and ITC..... i know that they can tuned some stuff.... but back it up with after sales services??? i dun think so... no tuning place would back it up, simply becos how would they know that u didnt play around with the setting????

dont get me wrong.... all i feel is VAFC is a stale toy now.... many many i mean many people in asia from abeng to alien (if u guys know wat i mean heheheh ) can actually tune it themself, of cos if using dyno is better. therefore, we should have more confidence in playing around with it.... heheheh... plus who agree with me that they charge too much for tuning a stale toy???? heheheheh......

well guys.... its been fun arguing and hope we can learn something from this

:D

Catcha
16-04-2005, 08:46 PM
yeah.... everyone has their point of view.... i have tuned my car at Technik Tuning (A.R.T) before, namely SAFC, AVCR and ITC..... i know that they can tuned some stuff.... but back it up with after sales services??? i dun think so... no tuning place would back it up, simply becos how would they know that u didnt play around with the setting????

dont get me wrong.... all i feel is VAFC is a stale toy now.... many many i mean many people in asia from abeng to alien (if u guys know wat i mean heheheh ) can actually tune it themself, of cos if using dyno is better. therefore, we should have more confidence in playing around with it.... heheheh... plus who agree with me that they charge too much for tuning a stale toy???? heheheheh......

well guys.... its been fun arguing and hope we can learn something from this

:D

Ok Wrong choice of words with after sales back up. But out or many they would know what they are doing, But even with MRT or CRD or ART not everyone will be satisfied. Its hard for us consumers to fork out our hard earned dollars and wanting results that sometimes don't achieve expectations.

Off the topic, if your car was getting dynoed and it blew a tyre while being tuned, and the rims were damaged, who is liable ?

Zimp13
16-04-2005, 08:54 PM
Ok Wrong choice of words with after sales back up. But out or many they would know what they are doing, But even with MRT or CRD or ART not everyone will be satisfied. Its hard for us consumers to fork out our hard earned dollars and wanting results that sometimes don't achieve expectations.

Off the topic, if your car was getting dynoed and it blew a tyre while being tuned, and the rims were damaged, who is liable ?

my honest opinion rite??? they charged too much just to tune vafc.... this is just my opinion....

has it ever happened??? i mean tyre blew while being dynoed??? who is liable.... i would say depends i guess.... if there is a screw or nail flew in and destroy the tyre of cos i feel that the place is liable.... but again, no place would admit that its their fault and claim responsibility if anything happen.... so i would say if that really happened (the tyre blew), bad luck to the owner really.....

Jus-10
16-04-2005, 09:21 PM
It only costs a lot (compared to say on-road tuning) because you are on the dyno...they charge you a standard dyno rate (per hour).

Whilst the V-AFC2 is easy to tune/use, I would like to see someone do a road-tune and get it spot on.

If you just do it on-road, how can you obtain the correct vtec crossover point? You can't. How can you tell with any accuracy that your car is running lean/rich? (I'm talking the more finite/optimum tuning parameters now as anyone can see black smoke pouring out of an overly-rich running engine)...You can't!

People bad-mouth the V-AFC/2 as being more of a rice mod or a toy, but those negative comments probably come from those that have either had it on-road tuned or have had wild expectations that by installing a V-AFC/2 they will automatically get 15kw at the wheels, etc. To me it seems that people generally don't take it seriously because it can be tuned eaasily so everyone thinks they can beccome a tuning expert. That is just my general observation.

From what I have seen, those people who take the time and are willing to spend the extra $ to get it tuned properly (on a dyno) and are more realistic in the expected gains/overall result, are the ones who get the best or better results and are more happy.

But I guess it is like a lot of mods to any NA car...you can spend a heap and usually get very little in return...

At the end of the day, you have to have realistic expectations.

Catcha
17-04-2005, 07:32 AM
my honest opinion rite??? they charged too much just to tune vafc.... this is just my opinion....

has it ever happened??? i mean tyre blew while being dynoed??? who is liable.... i would say depends i guess.... if there is a screw or nail flew in and destroy the tyre of cos i feel that the place is liable.... but again, no place would admit that its their fault and claim responsibility if anything happen.... so i would say if that really happened (the tyre blew), bad luck to the owner really.....

I knew The owner of the work shop that i took my car to back then. he dynoed a RX7, the tyre blew shredded and damaged the rim, He had to fork it out cause it was well his fault in the end, even though the tyres are a bit worn. the workshop paid for it. Guess thats why they make you sign waivers and stuff before a dyno..but anyway.............enough said until something else catches my eye again.................have fun and drive safe..........