Surging issue

[FallenAngel]

Hey guys,

Got an issue with the dc2r where it surges suddenly when driving.

- It occurs when you accel at any gear.
- The surge occurs when you have your foot on the accelerator.
- When it happens it loses power until you release the accelerator
- Once you release the accelerator then accel again its ok.

Basically thats whats happening, and i'm not sure whats going on.
I've used injector cleaner in the fuel and have been using premium all the time.

Any ideas guys?
Thanks in advance

[beeza]

It could be related to the TPS.Here's how you calibrate the voltage on the TPS:

Link! (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2476685#post2476685)

I would just check to make sure the timing is in the correct position too,because that too can cause surging/hesitation:

Link! (http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=120425)

[FallenAngel]

thanks for the quick reply.

I'll have a look into it

[beeza]

No worries,keep us posted aye!

[FallenAngel]

Had a look into it, and it doesn't seem to be the problem...

Its also now had started to stall sometimes when coming to a stop maybe like once or twice in a hr's trip? And when you start the engine again it seems to sound like a wrx (if you get what i mean). Seems like its only running on 3 cylinders but when you re-start the engine again its fine....

Whilst cruising, i can hear the exhaust backfire occasionally, in which i assume i'm running a tad rich....

I'm planning to change the fuel filter and the sparks tonight and i'll see how that goes. but other than that has anyone got any ideas on this?

[lithium]

i would have said try changing the spark plugs, which you are doing, and see if it improves the problem
another possibility is that one of the ignition leads/an ignition coil is on its way out. is the power loss problem worse on a cold start?

[FallenAngel]

Literally happens randomly, cold or hot. Occurs more often when driving as the engine is warmer. I might pick up a set of ignition leads if this fails.

I'm just wondering is there anything else i'm sorta missing

[beeza]

The ICM - Ignition Control Module in the distributor causes the car to Konk out randomly,when it starts to go.I would check that next.

[wynode]

Sounds like an ignition issue and good advise so far.

Also try measuring the resistance of your leads to see what it is (and how they differ).

[beeza]

When ya main fuel relay starts to go,what are the signs?

[lithium]

When ya main fuel relay starts to go,what are the signs?

intermittent starting problem on hot days. the car will crank but the engine will not start as the fuel pump is not energised.

[beeza]

Gotcha!

Thanks mate.R-R-RePPed!

[Webby_roller]

check leads.... seems like a similar thing i had happen and it happened to a couple of mates... We just waited till night and pulled the lead cover off and ran the car while someone moved the leads around....

Found it was a split lead after they got zapped and it began arcing to the valve cover....

just another thing for you to count out of the problem...

[Ashwee]

I have had the same problem for a long time. Replaced spark plugs, leads, distributor, checked and adjusted ignition timing, o2 sensor, checked all sensors, checked injectors, checked my exhaust, and ran injector cleaner through the car, reset my ECU a million times, and tried different fuel. Still happens. I noticed a slight improvement from cleaning my throttle body and IACV, but its still there. The only thing I can guess that I havent tested yet is my auto transmission, but I've known people with manual cars that still had the same issue.

[beeza]

Ashwee,that's exactly my problem I had FOREVA!

I would:

* Replace fuel filter
* Suburu Upper engine Clean the engine
* Calibrate the voltage on the TPS

The last one being important.

Also for $40 an injector you can get the spray rate and pattern fixed.

I had it done,the results were:

BEFORE AFTER

Spray rate Spray pattern Spray rate Spray pattern

Injector 1 - 3 3 5 5
Injector 2 - 4 2 5 5
Injector 3 - 5 3 5 5
Injector 4 - 2 4 5 5

[tiksie]

I have had the same problem for a long time. Replaced spark plugs, leads, distributor, checked and adjusted ignition timing, o2 sensor, checked all sensors, checked injectors, checked my exhaust, and ran injector cleaner through the car, reset my ECU a million times, and tried different fuel. Still happens. I noticed a slight improvement from cleaning my throttle body and IACV, but its still there. The only thing I can guess that I havent tested yet is my auto transmission, but I've known people with manual cars that still had the same issue.

Same thing happened to me, tryed everything, ended up being the dizzy was adjusted and too retarded.

Inspect your dizzy to see if its advanced/retarded..Just centre it for the time being to see if that changes anything, huge improvement for me.

[beeza]

Yeah,that's your engine ignition timing.

[FallenAngel]

Ok, i got a new set of NGK Spark Plugs, NGK Leads and a OEM fuel filter. Just put it in yesterday and the car doesn't seem to be as "boggy" as before. Although it still does have a slight hesitation still but i dont htink it is as bad as before.

It doesn't seem to want to stall anymore which is good but the hesitation is still there.

Another question, how do you check the dizzy? What are you meant to look for?

[jords]

clean your TB and the sensor.

[tiksie]

Does it do it between a certain RPM range ? Go for a drive and report back

[FallenAngel]

Usually around the 2-4k rpm mark, hence the cruising rpm area.

Going to head to epping today so i'll give a report on how it goes later this arvo.

[Ashwee]

I can tell you after cleaning my throttle body and IACV I have noticed its improved A LOT. I had all chunky bits of coolant everywhere, not sure if that was a separate issue, but the surging has gotten better, still happens but doesn't bog down too much.

[FallenAngel]

Ok went for a decent drive yesterday for about 2 hrs or so.

What i've noticed is that the surge mainly happens when crusing <100km/h. On the freeway it isn't really there. Also occurs more often when going uphill.

Its much better now since changing the spark plugs, leads, and fuel filter but the issue is still there.

I'll have a go at cleaning the throttle body and IACV tonight and report back on how it goes.

[Limbo]

sounds like timing is off

[FallenAngel]

sounds like timing is off

What do you mean by that?

Isn't it if the timing is off, then the car would do that all the time? (just trying to think logically)

[Ashwee]

When I got my new distributor fitted, I took my car to the mech to get the timing set properly (just quickly fitted it at home to get the car driveable again), and he said mine was slightly retarded, and he advanced it back to normal, didn't seem to affect or improve the surging. Mines come back with a vengeance today.

[FallenAngel]

Ok been driving around and testing a few things and here's what i've come up with.

1. From stop. Medium accel pedal (approx 30-40%) and shifting under 3k rpm on each gear

The surge hasnt occured on me (yet maybe) when i drive like this.

2. From stop. medium accel pedal (approx 30-40%) but shifting at around 4-5k rpm on each gear

The surge occurs very minimal occasions whilst cruising but does occur from time to time.

3. From stop. Light accel (say 10%) and shifting under 3k rpm.

Surges/hesitations occur quite often when cruising.

4. From stop. Light accel, shifting at around 4-5k rpm

Same as above.

-----------------------------------------------------
Seems like when the car is stopped and accelerated with a decent amount of load on the engine, it doesn't hesitate when cruising???

Can anyone shed some light on this?

[tiksie]

As Limbo has said, you have to adjust your timing, take a photo of your dizzy (facing your engine, from the left side) take a photo from birds eye view and from side view.

[beeza]

I said to calibrate the voltage on the tps,you said -


Had a look into it, and it doesn't seem to be the problem...

How do you know,what have you got to lose by doing it,so why don`t you do it instead of asking the same questions?

I had the same friggin` problem for almost 2 years and this is what fixed it!

DO IT!

and check the timing is set correctly too.

Links are on the 1st page.

I`m not saying this is the answer,but how will you know if you dont do it? because someone said `that wont be your problem`? DO IT already! :)

Also:

* Squirt a can of suburu upper engine cleaner through the engine
* clean the carbon off the 4 spark contact points in the dizzy and the edge of the rotor
* Clean spark plugs and set the gap correctly

All of that will cost you sweet FA.

and lets go from there aye?

If no luck then I would change the fuel filter,$50,it can be the cause of strange problems and the 02 sensor $100.Also plugs and leads $80.

Like I said I had the same deal for 2 yrs,damn near drove me nuts.Your car will only benefit from a new fuel filter and 02 sensor anyways,it`s just that it costs money,which is best avoided right?

Best of luck,keep us posted.

[beeza]

As Limbo has said, you have to adjust your timing, take a photo of your dizzy (facing your engine, from the left side) take a photo from birds eye view and from side view.

If you haven`t done this,do this 1st!

[Limbo]

What do you mean by that?

Isn't it if the timing is off, then the car would do that all the time? (just trying to think logically)


nah depending if ur advanced or retarted, the car will feel good at certain places in the rev range and bogg at others. Its more complicated than that but getting it set correct is a start.

If its not that then u move to the next issue it might be.

[FallenAngel]

I said to calibrate the voltage on the tps,you said -



How do you know,what have you got to lose by doing it,so why don`t you do it instead of asking the same questions?

I had the same friggin` problem for almost 2 years and this is what fixed it!

DO IT!

and check the timing is set correctly too.

Links are on the 1st page.

I`m not saying this is the answer,but how will you know if you dont do it? because someone said `that wont be your problem`? DO IT already! :)

Also:

* Squirt a can of suburu upper engine cleaner through the engine
* clean the carbon off the 4 spark contact points in the dizzy and the edge of the rotor
* Clean spark plugs and set the gap correctly

All of that will cost you sweet FA.

and lets go from there aye?

If no luck then I would change the fuel filter,$50,it can be the cause of strange problems and the 02 sensor $100.Also plugs and leads $80.

Like I said I had the same deal for 2 yrs,damn near drove me nuts.Your car will only benefit from a new fuel filter and 02 sensor anyways,it`s just that it costs money,which is best avoided right?

Best of luck,keep us posted.

I've gotten it checked out already but the guy said it doesn't need to be calibrated but if it seems like its the problem i'll get it recalibrated...

I've changed the fuel filter, plugs, and leads already...

[beeza]

Most on here will say the same,truth is the tps goes out of calibration and the performance of your car suffers.When the tps is calibrated,the car WILL perform better but if the timing is off then that will be the problem.Suburu upper engine cleaner will help the car to run smoothly aswell as it removes all the carbon and oil deposits from around the valves and everywhere else,it is an awesome product.I only use that to clean engine parts now,carby cleaner is crap compared to Suburu UEC.

Sorry if I jumped a little before..

[Ashwee]

I will have a look into the TPS, I'm not mechanically confident in being able to do it myself. I had my distributor replaced a while back when mine melted, and had the timing checked by the mechanic, so I'm not sure if he did it wrong or what.

My surging always seems to happen when I'm say cruising along at around 60 at like 2700rpm, and then the limit changes to 70, so I lightly press the accelerator to get up to the limit, and the revs will drop from 2700 down to like 1000 or less. I also notice it a lot when I go through round abouts, and begin to accelerate after I pass through it.

[beeza]

I know EXACTLY what you mean ashwee.It does sound like the timing.You can buy a timing light from repco for $60 and check it,it`s real easy aye,I did a DIY on here.

Also,I just remembered something I forgot to mention that I found on my car that may have been a cause of my problem.I`m not sure if it was or not and it would be good to hear from someone if it may have been.

If you put the front of the car on jackstands and get under there and have a look next to the front left wheel,you will see the power steering belt that connects to an alternator looking thing LOL but there is a long bolt that goes right through the bottom of it with a nut on the other end holding it on.The nut had come off mine and the bolt was just 90% out and just hanging on there,this caused the alternator thingy to be on a slight angle and it ate away one side of the power steering belt.

So,just whack the bolt back in with a hammer and replace the nut if this is the case.It freaked me out when I found it,I was damn! how long was it like that and I`m lucky no real damage was done!

Again,I dont think it was the cause of my problem but well worth checking anyways.

Can someone shed some light on this matter,cheers.

Unfortunately ashwee,the tps calibration it seems,no one knows much about it,so it`s the type of thing that you cant go somewhere and have someone do it for you.But it would be best then to do the above first then go from there.

[beeza]

I`ll get a pic up of what I`m talking about in a few days.

[Ashwee]

My car is going into AK very soon for some work, might get andy to have a quick look at the timing while I'm there, but its done it long before my distributor died, just not nearly as worse.
It all started about 2 years ago, driving along on my L's, going around a roundabout, car makes a bang noise (like an exhaust backfire) and the surge happened, and its done it ever since then.

[beeza]

BANG! Ouch!

[Ashwee]

For what its worth, I took some photos of my distributor today.

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/8619/s6300850.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/2862/s6300851.jpg

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/5610/s6300852s.jpg

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/6469/s6300853.jpg

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8533/s6300854v.jpg


And here's what the old one looked like:
http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/3755/s6300433.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/7379/s6300435.jpg

[beeza]

Here's that bolt,next to the sump,with belt attached:

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss141/beeza9/100_1833.jpg

I would get under the car and just check it..ya never know.

[ewendc2r]

I have similar issue, hesitation / surge around 3000rpm. I checked my Hondata S300 logging and it shows the TPS jumping around at that throttle pressure. I will try the TPS recal -- Also bought a can of the SUEC and will shoot that through tomorrow.. When I took the headers off (to change the sump) i was amazed to see about half a mm of carbon deposit lining the exhaust ports. It was literally flaking off!

I'll see if I can do a log of before and after showing the OBD outputs and post it up.

[beeza]

The Suburu UEC will clean all that carbon out,it's such a good product.

You can even soak ya pistons in it overnight and they will come up new.I've just heard that but haven't done it,running a can through is enough..

I just bought a box of 12 today :)

I would do the TPS calibration for your problem by the sounds of it.

[ewendc2r]

rofl -- for a second then I thought you were volunteering to do the TPS for me!! hahaha ... Not that lucky I guess!

[beeza]

OK,if you come over mine,we can do it together,PM if ya keen,I'm behind Byron bay at Murwillumbah :)

You've got the fully black Integra yeah?

[munkii]

Hey, I know this thread is old but have you found out the solution of this cause? You havent updated us with the solution.

It would help a lot since I'm having the exact same symptoms with my DC2R.

[tiksie]

Happened to me before on my B16A EG, I was surging between 3.5 - 5k RPM.

Was due to my dizzy was too advanced..Like wayyyyyy too advanced.

[munkii]

Hey tiksie,

Yeah my timing is alright just got it checked today, but some how my dizzy is leaking? so my mechanic told me he'll check it out by cleaning it and he'll see if it still does surging.

[beeza]

Leaking what? lol

[FallenAngel]

Ah, the problem sorta went away after awhile for some reason. There were many things i changed as seen above, such as;

Replace Spark Plugs
Replace Spark Leads
Replace Fuel Filter
Clean + Recalibrate TPS
Clean IACV
Clean Throttle Body
Reset ECU
Check Timing

The one thing i didn't really check at the time was my O2 sensor, which i know mine is currently dieing.

[munkii]

somehow i can see oil dripping down from the bottom of the dizzy, i know its weird :S

[munkii]

This what it looks like
http://i56.tinypic.com/2e3o37c.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/30bcrjm.jpg

I know its weird but yeah car's been bogging, surging, hesitating at low rpm while having my foot on 10% throttle.

[munkii]

Oh ok thanks alot I'll give them a try.


Ah, the problem sorta went away after awhile for some reason. There were many things i changed as seen above, such as;

Replace Spark Plugs
Replace Spark Leads
Replace Fuel Filter
Clean + Recalibrate TPS
Clean IACV
Clean Throttle Body
Reset ECU
Check Timing

The one thing i didn't really check at the time was my O2 sensor, which i know mine is currently dieing.

[beeza]

Ah, the problem sorta went away after awhile for some reason. There were many things i changed as seen above, such as;

Replace Spark Plugs
Replace Spark Leads
Replace Fuel Filter
Clean + Recalibrate TPS
Clean IACV
Clean Throttle Body
Reset ECU
Check Timing

The one thing i didn't really check at the time was my O2 sensor, which i know mine is currently dieing.

EXACTLY! the same here mate,I did all that 02 sensor,map sensor,adjusted FITV and more.

Everything I did improved the car.Now,problems = 0.

I know now what a 'tight knit' little engine honda's are i.e. When 1 sensor/thing fails or begins not work 100%,the problem shows itself as a random little annoying issue that becomes a problem and it's impossible to pin point it.Best to fix/replace everything 1 at a time,starting with the most common to least common.

Do this until your engine is 100%.

Most things don't cost a dollar,other's do cost money.

I recommend changing the 02 sensor,yes they do make a difference and can cause surging hesitation in honda's.

Never expect an 02 sensor to last 100,000k's,but they can! But they can easily not be operating at 100% anyways,therefore it can be sending incorrect data to the ecu and your air/fuel mix is incorrect.The ECU simply adds more fuel to compensate.Very common I believe from my experience.

Your air/fuel mix is everything.

Anyways I did EVERYTHING and my car runs 100%,I'm on top of it!! I know what's going on with my car and that means everything.

So get in there and learn mate!

[tiksie]

I did ALL of that including changing the throttle body aswell and buying a new map sensor aswell and rewiring the ECU aswell.


But at the end of the day, it was just the timing was off LOL. I called Ben right after it, I was so ****ing happy and angry at the same time.

[beeza]

U know what,same here lol

All that improved my car but yeah the timing was off BIGTIME!

It was at 2 deg BTDC,should be at 12 deg BTDC.

I was real happy too but by then it had next to broken me and I was over it.

The whole dilemma took 1 1/2 years and by then end I had learnt a lot.

Unfortunately the last thing I learnt was how to do/check the timing LOL!!

[beeza]

This what it looks like
http://i56.tinypic.com/2e3o37c.jpg
http://i53.tinypic.com/30bcrjm.jpg

I know its weird but yeah car's been bogging, surging, hesitating at low rpm while having my foot on 10% throttle.

WOW.Looks like the oil can only be coming from the dizzy.

Needs a good clean out.

and

Clean the carbon off the 4 points with a flathead screwdriver and give the outer edge of the rotor a sand to get the carbon off.

Put it back together and start it up!

[munkii]

Thanks for the advice beeza will do

[beeza]

Cheers Munkii.