Second Hand Refund/Exchange Laws

[ccmengs]

Hey guys a mate of mine just bought these rims off from firesport, apparently the rims were bent and it can't be used or whatever. He only found out at the mechanics when he was doing a wheel allignment, the seller says he didnt know that he had them and my mate when he bought them as is.

I was wandering if he had any legal rights as in can he refund or exchange? what are his options

[aaronng]

It is up to the seller to refund.
If your mate bought the wheels as is and was aware that there was no warranty, then I don't see why the seller would have to refund. Buyer beware.

If the seller specifically said and posted in the ad that the rims were not bent, then your friend would be able to go the legal route as it was misleading advertising.

[Mr_will]

It is up to the seller to refund.
If your mate bought the wheels as is and was aware that there was no warranty, then I don't see why the seller would have to refund. Buyer beware.

If the seller specifically said and posted in the ad that the rims were not bent, then your friend would be able to go the legal route as it was misleading advertising.

Not really very accurate.

Goods must be 'fit for purpose made known'. It would be reasonable to say that a person buying wheels wished to used them on a motor vehicle, and clearly these wheels are not 'fit' for that purpose.

Its tough because there's no contract and it wasnt a commercial transaction, but I think it would be worth mentioning an argument along the lines of the one above to the seller.

[ccmengs]

well he's pretty much ****ed then? haha

[Mr_will]

well he's pretty much ****ed then? haha

No, he's not effed at all.

If I was the buyer, my contact with the seller would go something like



Dear John Smith


I refer to our transaction of 1 July 2009 at which time I purchased four RS GT 16X7 wheels from you for $500.

Upon attempting to have these wheels fitted to my vehicle I have become aware that they have been significantly damaged such that they are unable to safely be used on a vehicle.

Your advertisement did not in any way bring this to the attention of potential buyers, and thus you appear to have contravened the sale of goods act. These wheels for not 'fit for purpose'; specifically the use on a motor vehicle on Australian roads.

I therefore request that you provide a full refund. If you choose not to refund my money in full I reserve the right to commence legal proceedings against you and advise that I will exercise any and all powers under the law to recover my monies including but not limited to:

A letter of demand
A statement of claim which may require your attendance in court.
Proceedings through an external debt collection agency.

I will of course be reporting your actions to the internet forum on which you posted them in an attempt to warn future buyers of your practices.

I hope we may avoid the above and will be pleased to consider the matter resolved if I receive the full purchase price refunded within 14 days.

Kind regards,


Joe Bloggs

[wynode]

Great template there Mr_Will. Should go along way for the OP. Nice avatar too (after all these years!)

[aaronng]

Its tough because there's no contract and it wasnt a commercial transaction, but I think it would be worth mentioning an argument along the lines of the one above to the seller.

That's the problem, in the end, it is up to the seller and whether he/she has a good conscience.

[Mr_will]

That's the problem, in the end, it is up to the seller and whether he/she has a good conscience.

No, in the end it will be up to a court if the buyer chooses to go that way. There are ways to deal with issues such as this without legal representation in the court.

[Limbo]

there are no actual legal parameters where its a private sale.
All the 'fit for sale' etc your talking about only apply through the Trade Practices Act or Fair Trading Act and only apply to commercial sales to protect consumers.

Unless you've had a specific contract for the purchase specifically stating what you brought, your on your own. Court won't be able to do anything. The general rule is 'buyer beware' for private sales.

your just wasting more money after bad. Move on and learn from it.

[Mr_will]

there are no actual legal parameters where its a private sale.
All the 'fit for sale' etc your talking about only apply through the Trade Practices Act or Fair Trading Act and only apply to commercial sales to protect consumers.

Unless you've had a specific contract for the purchase specifically stating what you brought, your on your own. Court won't be able to do anything. The general rule is 'buyer beware' for private sales.

your just wasting more money after bad. Move on and learn from it.

there are plenty of legal parameters with it being a private sale.

just because there is no written contract doesnt mean there is no contract.

probably best that you dont make sweeping statements about what a court will or wont do, given that you obviously dont have much knowledge to base this on

[cymax]

No, he's not effed at all.

If I was the buyer, my contact with the seller would go something like



Dear John Smith


I refer to our transaction of 1 July 2009 at which time I purchased four RS GT 16X7 wheels from you for $500.

Upon attempting to have these wheels fitted to my vehicle I have become aware that they have been significantly damaged such that they are unable to safely be used on a vehicle.

Your advertisement did not in any way bring this to the attention of potential buyers, and thus you appear to have contravened the sale of goods act. These wheels for not 'fit for purpose'; specifically the use on a motor vehicle on Australian roads.

I therefore request that you provide a full refund. If you choose not to refund my money in full I reserve the right to commence legal proceedings against you and advise that I will exercise any and all powers under the law to recover my monies including but not limited to:

A letter of demand
A statement of claim which may require your attendance in court.
Proceedings through an external debt collection agency.

I will of course be reporting your actions to the internet forum on which you posted them in an attempt to warn future buyers of your practices.

I hope we may avoid the above and will be pleased to consider the matter resolved if I receive the full purchase price refunded within 14 days.

Kind regards,


Joe Bloggs
The seller would definitely squirt a bit of pee here and there. It's pretty scary to see such email because you do not know what the buyer is capable of doing in terms of legal act. Unless the seller has direct contact with a law advisors or rich knowledge in law studies.

[Mr_will]

The seller would definitely squirt a bit of pee here and there. It's pretty scary to see such email because you do not know what the buyer is capable of doing in terms of legal act. Unless the seller has direct contact with a law advisors or rich knowledge in law studies.

exactly! so there's a little bit of craftiness with the truth, the object is just to get the seller to find his conscience so that the just outcome is achieved :)

[WATAJK]

I cann tell you right now.
If it a private sale, no contract, no receipt.
FORGET IT. You have no hope in court, don't even bother wasteing your time at a lawyers office either. Just start saving again, simple mate.

You go take legal action against him, i can make a wager of anything you wish and i can gurantee your case will end up with you paying a large sum of legal fees (as you would lose the case) or your case just being thrown out the door.

Private sales can lead to disaster if you don't have a contract between you both or make a receipt of the event.


Sorry if i sound harsh but im being blunt and honest.
Did enough legal studies back at school and this was a very common thing we spoke about.

Hope it helps

[Limbo]

i've only been a solicitor for serveral years, but i guess that doesn't qualify me? LOL
mate i think you need to do some more reading before thinking you know everything about the law




there are plenty of legal parameters with it being a private sale.

just because there is no written contract doesnt mean there is no contract.

probably best that you dont make sweeping statements about what a court will or wont do, given that you obviously dont have much knowledge to base this on

[Mr_will]

I cann tell you right now.
If it a private sale, no contract, no receipt.
FORGET IT. You have no hope in court, don't even bother wasteing your time at a lawyers office either. Just start saving again, simple mate.

You go take legal action against him, i can make a wager of anything you wish and i can gurantee your case will end up with you paying a large sum of legal fees (as you would lose the case) or your case just being thrown out the door.

Private sales can lead to disaster if you don't have a contract between you both or make a receipt of the event.


Sorry if i sound harsh but im being blunt and honest.
Did enough legal studies back at school and this was a very common thing we spoke about.

Hope it helps

lol legal studies.

you simply cannot predict the outcome of legal proceedings like this, especially considering that all your basing it on is having done 'legal studies', that is just ridiculous.

there would be evidence from the advertisement if nothing else.



come back when you have a law degree and then people might listen to you

[Limbo]

law degree is a piece of crap, i've taught may idiots who had law degrees also ;p
Unless you have your unrestricted it doesn't really count

[WATAJK]

lol legal studies.

you simply cannot predict the outcome of legal proceedings like this, especially considering that all your basing it on is having done 'legal studies', that is just ridiculous.

there would be evidence from the advertisement if nothing else.



come back when you have a law degree and then people might listen to you

If there was no form of "advertising", the case would be based upon word of mouth.
The only contract available in that instinct would also be a verbal contract.
Im not saying i know everything (which i don't still learnin everyday), but i went into deeper depth in this area back at school (in my own time) as it's a very good area to have knowledge in.
You don't need a degree/piece of paper to state that your good at something, as i work in the trade industry, if you put me to do any sort of Carpentry, Tilein, and Plastering i could do it just as good or better then those who are qualified in that trade. As in my trade for the last 8 years i've been doing all 3 as i started from a very young age but am now a qualified Class 1 Labourer.

It's not worth going to court over something like that is what im basically trying to get across to you guys.
A letter of demand generally means that if you don't reply to what i have requested (in the letter), ill proceed by taking legal action against you.
Its not WORTH your TIME or MONEY

Thats all im trying to get across.

[Mr_will]

law degree is a piece of crap, i've taught may idiots who had law degrees also ;p
Unless you have your unrestricted it doesn't really count

lol, I remember a thread a while back where we had a 'doctor', I suspect a similar state of affairs here

[Limbo]

mate i can show you my admission certificate to the supreme court anytime your around cabra.

[yfin]

Hey guys a mate of mine just bought these rims off from firesport, apparently the rims were bent and it can't be used or whatever. He only found out at the mechanics when he was doing a wheel allignment, the seller says he didnt know that he had them and my mate when he bought them as is.

I was wandering if he had any legal rights as in can he refund or exchange? what are his options

Alright lets cut through all the bush lawyers giving advice. No one here has asked you what representations were made by the seller or what the ad actually says.

So what was said at the time the contract was made - and what does the advert say?

If the ad says the wheels are un-damaged (or if the purchaser asked prior to sale) you will have a cause of action and are entitled to damages under contract law if there is a misrepresentation. Trade Practices Law, etc is not relevant here but that doesn't mean there are no other causes of action.

[WATAJK]

mate i can show you my admission certificate to the supreme court anytime your around cabra.

Yeah relax man i believe u.
A doctor? Epic fail, need a major degree there.. Thats not for me lol

[yfin]

exactly! so there's a little bit of craftiness with the truth, the object is just to get the seller to find his conscience so that the just outcome is achieved :)

I agree with that - the strict legal answer is not always the best answer. Sometimes a practical solution that includes bluff and some street smarts works best. Your letter may not be strictly correct legally - but I agree that it may just well work. So a much better alternative than listening to people who just say to let this go because of caveat emptor.

[Chriskoss]

court costs = more than the wheels.. friend should cut losses and egg / brick the guys house (not condoning violence but what you do is not my business :P) lolz.. but yea.. if your friend was smart he would ask to get them checked out first, or maybe atleast if he had known they where on a good workin car before hand.. sorry but really.. yeh you can lionel hutz his ass.. but just get over it

I agree with the bloke that says private sale = no warranty etc. The seller can just say' I told him they were bent and the sales were for the tyres or something' seriously.. its hard to give a judgement because wheels cannot be known if they are faulty until you literally put them on your car.. so really.. in the end.. if the buyer didnt show any precaution/common sense.. he/she cannot complain thereafter that the goods dont work.. you dont buy something second hand 'as is' and then complain if its no good.. buy new then

P.S most of the law is common sense so if you have none.. dont expect the law to go mumbo jumbo to help your whinging case

good luck to your friend tho, maybe show some brute force in getting the cash back, sometiems its the only way

[ccmengs]

Alright lets cut through all the bush lawyers giving advice. No one here has asked you what representations were made by the seller or what the ad actually says.

So what was said at the time the contract was made - and what does the advert say?

If the ad says the wheels are un-damaged (or if the purchaser asked prior to sale) you will have a cause of action and are entitled to damages under contract law if there is a misrepresentation. Trade Practices Law, etc is not relevant here but that doesn't mean there are no other causes of action.

hey mate nah the ad didnt say anything like "undamaged" or "in perfect condition" i really think that the seller didn't know about the problem because there were gutter rashes and scratches BUT the seller DID state that in the ad because that was a visible problem where as that bent, you could only tell if you were a mechanic or a tyre repair person or something.
i mean my mate came to have a look you know, look at each rim and the only problem visible were the gutter rashes obviously and he couldn't see the bent so he bought em.

so you guys reckon we should just drop it and move it? dont wanna waste any time or effort on legal actions yeah?

[Mr_will]

lol. i gave you the template for a letter. it costs you nothing to alter it and send it, so why dont you give it a go?